A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: privinvest on May 14, 2024, 08:20:35 AM
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He is silent (?) on Gaza. And I'm disappointed. Do I/we have a right to expect him to say smth about it?
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I don't think you/we do/ He hasn't been known for being overtly political or speaking out about many issues throughout his career.
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No. He is a musician not a politician.
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He is silent (?) on Gaza. And I'm disappointed. Do I/we have a right to expect him to say smth about it?
There is no we.
You have zero right to speak for me and zero right to expect MK to comment on something you think he should.
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Maybe you will not like what he has to say?
In that case will you change your mind?
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No. He is a musician not a politician.
I agree but I also think he should be able to comment on whatever he wants to. Seems he doesn't feel the need to comment on this which is fine.
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Maybe you will not like what he has to say?
In that case will you change your mind?
This gets into the interesting question of separating the art from the artist. In my experience the more you like the artist the more you will excuse "questionable" aspects of their personality.
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He is silent (?) on Gaza. And I'm disappointed. Do I/we have a right to expect him to say smth about it?
Yes, of course you do. How dare Mark not comment on what is meaningful to Privinvest? You should cancel him very hard!
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For the record he didn't mention anything regarding October 7th. Were you also disappointed about his silence at that time as well, privinvest? I couldn't find anything similar about it in your posting history.
This feels like a thread that may spiral pretty quickly into something negative.
Considering a locked thread (edit: if it occurs)
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People have spoken about MK so far without getting into anything nasty I think...
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@border_reiver - well said!
Indeed locking this is the right thing to do
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Locking a thread? Why? How silly! Asking an open question is not permitted? I remember seeing ukraine flags in his posts. Also vaguely remember smth about a russian band persecuted. the number of angry (?) answers disappointed me. 40 thousand people died, mostly children. i expect my hero to take a stand against/about it. he doesnt have to. maybe what he says will not be entirely to my liking. maybe he will enlarge my understanding. again, he doesnt have to. my expectation was as human being, not as an artist, politician, activist, commentator, analyst etc. i just wanted see that he's unhappy about what's happening, he dosnt habe to apportion blame etc. anyway
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People have spoken about MK so far without getting into anything nasty I think...
Yes. Let's see where it goes. I just feel that "this one's not going to end well" :)
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Locking a thread? Why? How silly! Asking an open question is not permitted? I remember seeing ukraine flags in his posts. Also vaguely remember smth about a russian band persecuted. the number of angry (?) answers disappointed me. 40 thousand people died, mostly children. i expect my hero to take a stand against/about it. he doesnt have to. maybe what he says will not be entirely to my liking. maybe he will enlarge my understanding. again, he doesnt have to. my expectation was as human being, not as an artist, politician, activist, commentator, analyst etc. i just wanted see that he's unhappy about what's happening, he dosnt habe to apportion blame etc. anyway
no need to close. nothing has happened (yet) also, i would prefer Mark not become like Roger Waters, i prefer to listen to his music
Also, do not get me wrong, i personally have strong feelings about what is happening there, but that is not relevant for this thread.
he was vocal about russia, not this time, i assume the general perception was soooooo anti russia that it was easy for him to make a point (to which i agree) but with the Gaza conflict and the palestine/israel question in general, it has become so....vitriolic, from both sides, that it would be suicide to post for him, as he would NEVER be able to pls anyone.
i assume he has acted as a private person on this topic already.
no excuse of course, just an effort to explain
as long as no one becomes aggressive against another member on here, and as long as we stick to the actual question, why close the thread?
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Locking a thread? Why? How silly! Asking an open question is not permitted? I remember seeing ukraine flags in his posts. Also vaguely remember smth about a russian band persecuted. the number of angry (?) answers disappointed me. 40 thousand people died, mostly children. i expect my hero to take a stand against/about it. he doesnt have to. maybe what he says will not be entirely to my liking. maybe he will enlarge my understanding. again, he doesnt have to. my expectation was as human being, not as an artist, politician, activist, commentator, analyst etc. i just wanted see that he's unhappy about what's happening, he dosnt habe to apportion blame etc. anyway
no need to close. nothing has happened (yet) also, i would prefer Mark not become like Roger Waters, i prefer to listen to his music
Also, do not get me wrong, i personally have strong feelings about what is happening there, but that is not relevant for this thread.
he was vocal about russia, not this time, i assume the general perception was soooooo anti russia that it was easy for him to make a point (to which i agree) but with the Gaza conflict and the palestine/israel question in general, it has become so....vitriolic, from both sides, that it would be suicide to post for him, as he would NEVER be able to pls anyone.
i assume he has acted as a private person on this topic already.
no excuse of course, just an effort to explain
as long as no one becomes aggressive against another member on here, and as long as we stick to the actual question, why close the thread?
MK and politics have always failed in the end of a discussion. Russia being the exception.
Perhaps I was a bit unclear. If the thread goes out of control there's no need to keep it on right?
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MK has been quite vocal in his songs about conflicts. Ukraine is about as black and white as conflicts can get. Not showing support for Ukraine can be seen as tacit support of Russia.
Gaza is on the complete other end of the spectrum, where the issues are muddled. I suspect MKs views are as nuanced as he is, wherein he would never post a flag choosing "a side".
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That's certainly true, it's a highly complex issue.
Whatever his reasons are for not making a statement, that's fine with me.
But this is an interesting discussion! Why do people look to celebrities to find out what to think?
Bob Dylan once said something like "People want to know what I'm at, because they don't know what they're at." Then he added something like "I don't a have clue either." ;-) (And for the next ten years or so, he'd only write religious songs!)
With John Lennon, it was similar.
They're just humans, after all.
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I wish I hadn't open this thread. I didn't intend to create a political discussion. for me and i believe for billions of people, in this conflict, there's a clear injustice, imbalance of suffering, use of firepower, cruelty, strong backers, loss of life, destruction, affront to dignity, institutionalised racism etc. no party is blameless but this doesn't mean that they have equal responsibility. i won't try to persuade you. if you cannot already see it then I can't do it for you. and yes of course hamas doesnt want peace, it kills civilians, it rejects israel's existence etc... but.... anyway, i should stop. i'm, what was the word, ha yes, locking myself out of this discussion, sorry for creating trouble. mk doesn't have to say anything, he's not a judge, a prophet, historian, expert, journalist etc. he may have nothing terriby original to say. or his view of the thing maybe unpopular, too nuanced, maybe his family ties make him see it very diffent than me, that it would disappoint me etc. even then i would love to know it, for he's an important person for me, and i want to know more about him.
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Which artists have commented on this topic? I ask out of curiosity. Besides Roger Waters and maybe Bono?
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I wish I hadn't open this thread. I didn't intend to create a political discussion. for me and i believe for billions of people, in this conflict, there's a clear injustice, imbalance of suffering, use of firepower, cruelty, strong backers, loss of life, destruction, affront to dignity, institutionalised racism etc. no party is blameless but this doesn't mean that they have equal responsibility. i won't try to persuade you. if you cannot already see it then I can't do it for you. and yes of course hamas doesnt want peace, it kills civilians, it rejects israel's existence etc... but.... anyway, i should stop. i'm, what was the word, ha yes, locking myself out of this discussion, sorry for creating trouble. mk doesn't have to say anything, he's not a judge, a prophet, historian, expert, journalist etc. he may have nothing terriby original to say. or his view of the thing maybe unpopular, too nuanced, maybe his family ties make him see it very diffent than me, that it would disappoint me etc. even then i would love to know it, for he's an important person for me, and i want to know more about him.
Hey, don't worry! I think it was perfectly okay to ask the question, no harm done!
And it's absolutely understandable that we would all like to know where he stands on important questions, because he is so much more than just a musician. I just don't think it's going to happen in the case of Gaza.
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Which artists have commented on this topic? I ask out of curiosity. Besides Roger Waters and maybe Bono?
Clapton has been playing a guitar with the Palestine flag and raising money for Palestinian children.
I’ve been critical of his racism but for me this is clearly a good thing.
But the world is so crazy he’s being called an antisemite for doing this.
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Steve Earle back in October
https://www.facebook.com/100044310675357/posts/pfbid0471P9gcFysgqzpXk3ZZy9RP4kUUP5D5ZLoabHxee3dUaT41UexjacTYLqMUgBPsZl/?
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"But the world is so crazy he’s being called an antisemite for doing this.
It's true :o
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i won't try to persuade you. if you cannot already see it then I can't do it for you.
You see, it's this kind of arrogance and moral superiority that irritates a lot of people and certainly prevents artists from being more vocal about the conflict. You're essentially saying that you're the enlightened one, the one with the absolute truth and the others who may or may not share the same view are stuck in some kind of darkness, blindness or dumbness that require your help to understand what's going on.
EDT: By the way, my comment goes for both sides of the conflict.
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hey, hey, i've said i'm out of this discussion, not becoz i can't but becoz this is not the place, but, 1) the issue is not me, i'm nothing, i'm not superior than you. 2) tell me in dm (i'm a novice, don't know how to continue this in private, if you do, pls wite me a DM or whatever) which part of this sentence you disagree with: "in this conflict, there's a clear injustice, imbalance of suffering, use of firepower, cruelty, strong backers, loss of life, destruction, affront to dignity, institutionalised racism etc. no party is blameless but this doesn't mean that they have equal responsibility." Let's talk about facts, numbers, history, train of events, what 3rd parties say, law, maps, what happened, etc. is that ok? enlighten me pls.
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Discussing the conflict related to MK: ok
Discussing the conflict here at AMIT: not ok.
Your last post indicates that you are about to do the later, in this case I hope this thread is closed more sooner than later.
LE
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Which artists have commented on this topic? I ask out of curiosity. Besides Roger Waters and maybe Bono?
Clapton has been playing a guitar with the Palestine flag and raising money for Palestinian children.
I’ve been critical of his racism but for me this is clearly a good thing.
But the world is so crazy he’s being called an antisemite for doing this.
I'm an antikilling-innocent-people, no matter their religion, their race, their country, whatever, so if for that someone called me antisemite I don't give a damm as it clearly says more from that person calling me that, and in the worst way possible. Killing innocent people in the aim of whatever is a crime, no matter the excuse you use to that. Innocent people are always innocent people, in both sides of the story, in all sides of every story despite the story you want people to believe.
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I was always under the impression that this is a music forum and that politics and religion shouldn't be discussed here. Does that mean there is a special case for Gaza?
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I was always under the impression that this is a music forum and that politics and religion shouldn't be discussed here. Does that mean there is a special case for Gaza?
No, we had said the thread would stay open if it related to MK and not the wider political/humanitarian issue, unfortunately some people can't seem to understand simple rules so the thread is now closed.