A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Chris W on April 11, 2025, 09:09:35 AM
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Coming soon, more details later...
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Coming soon, more details later...
That's the way you do it!
Looking forward to it Chris! I take it a mix of your photos and stories from the tour?
Good luck with it.
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Coming soon, more details later...
Great news Chris.
Actually I thought you would do a book with photographs of both Macca and DS tour, any chance there is another about Macca after?
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Great cover :)
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Will def. be getting this, thanks Chris!
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What excellent news, I look forward to it, we will certainly have a very welcome angle on this historic moment for DS.👏🏻👏🏻 🙌🏻
Who knows, maybe at some point we will also have the same luck with a book written by the great Ed, that wouldn't be bad either. 🖖🏻👽❤️
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great news.
If you don't mind I am going tp announce it on my blog and social media
If you have a better defined pic, you can send it to me via PM or mail if you prefer : jfconvert@gmail.com
thanks :wave
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Chris, I've got to ask: Why do you choose to publish a book about the tour that for you had almost no highlights and which was so terrible that you retired from drumming for a long, long time? (As a an enthusiast photographer myself, I'm looking forward to seeing the photos, though!)
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I am not sure if Chris is really serious about it?
LE
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I am not sure if Chris is really serious about it?
LE
I thought about that too :think
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It's on his Instagram page, so I guess it is. Plus Chris doesn't quite strike me as a prankster ;D
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great news.
If you don't mind I am going tp announce it on my blog and social media
If you have a better defined pic, you can send it to me via PM or mail if you prefer : jfconvert@gmail.com
thanks :wave
No prob. Tomorrow morning.
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I am not sure if Chris is really serious about it?
LE
Chris said in his Instagram that he was scanning his old pictures in order to do a photo book.
I also thought it would be about his big tours with McCartney and DS, and recording with Paul, but seems it's only about DS.
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I'm doing the book because I'm very proud of the photos. It is all about the pictures. I've just written a short paragraph with a couple of facts and anecdotes for each chapter. The tour was effectively 6 legs, so I've done 6 chapters.
I'm not digging any dirt or spreading any gossip, it's just a description of the leg and a couple of things that happened on that leg.
I will post some more info tomorrow, including the price.
Ed Bicknell has written an amusing foreword for me.
Again, it's all about the pictures. There are over 80, most never seen before, not even by the band. Over the years I've probably shown 10 or 12 via Instagram, but the other 70 odd have never been seen before this book.
They are a mix of soundcheck pictures, things from travel days, photos of the fans, a couple of showtime pictures (although I was usually too busy).
There wasn't a regular photographer documenting the tour, so this is it, my version of the tour in pictures.
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Chris said in his Instagram that he was scanning his old pictures in order to do a photo book.
I also thought it would be about his big tours with McCartney and DS, and recording with Paul, but seems it's only about DS.
The DS book has taken two years, albeit not every day or even every week. But the negatives had scratches and a lot of dust, so it's taken me hours of work to clean them enough to publish a book.
There probably will be a Macca book, but maybe not for at least two years as I haven't even scanned those negatives. I didn't have a camera at the start of the McCartney tour, so I only documented the later two thirds of that tour, and I was learning to use a camera too.
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The cover front and back...
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Sounds great, Chris.
Are you doing a real coffee table book? Or would that be too costly?
Also, how did you scan the negatives? A friend of mine does it with a full-frame DSLR and gets great results. Much faster than a regular scanner too.
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Thank you, Chris. I´ll buy it
I rarely post but i always read and appreciate your posts (despite the fact some people come here to correct the statements of a DS ex member)
I feel glad you take the step and share your memories. I will read it with interest.
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Awesome! This book is a must have!!!
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Wow this is great! Instant buy for me!
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Great news! I'm really looking forward to see all of these great pictures taken by Chris.
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wow, sounds very interesting, such an inside view!
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Here's the important thing, the price.
It is £55 plus (fast) postage.
UK free.
Europe £10
USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Sth America £20.
I've been to three Post Offices and been given three different prices, so I've gone with the lower price estimates.
I'm doing this all myself, no one else involved. Every book will be personally signed. The book is soft cover and about 106 pages, around A4 size, 81 original photographs by me.
I will try and do a short video over the next couple of days for anyone wanting to see inside the book.
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Also, how did you scan the negatives? A friend of mine does it with a full-frame DSLR and gets great results. Much faster than a regular scanner too.
I used a 24mb full frame digital camera. I think the photos look amazing. It took many months of dust removal and scratch repair.
They ARE film negatives taken in difficult low light conditions, so there is grain and some blown highlights. I've shown the book to professional photographers and received compliments however.
There are a broad mix of subjects. There aren't a ton of Mark and John as I wasn't hanging with them as much as I was people like Chris White, Paul Franklin and the crew. I have uploaded three of the best Mark images to a printing service, not so much to sell prints (although you can buy), but so you can see what the photographic quality is.
https://chriswhittenmusic.darkroom.com
Message me here or at instagram to buy the book.
Instagram: chriswhittenmusic
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More on the subject matter...
These are some test prints I made while putting the book together:
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More on the subject matter...
These are some test prints I made while putting the book together:
Please send me payment instructors for ordering: rene@matthiassen.com
Thanks and really looking forward to see it.
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More details:
Payments to PayPal:
thataintworkin@icloud.com
£55 plus add your postage. Do message me or email to: thataintworkin@icloud.com
I'm doing this on my own, signing, packing and shipping, so I may miss a payment unless you notify me.
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Already been a busy day of signing and packing sold books. Thanks everyone.
Here is a video:
https://youtube.com/shorts/cR94ZdR-RnI?si=JmcWWQzMLI625b10
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Perhaps a silly question, but would the postage for Europe include any customs or other fees?
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No, because I have no idea what they would be.
I will value the book at £10 most times.
I have priced the packaging at various local post offices and they all came up with a different amount, so I've chosen the lower estimate and will probably end up paying more myself.
Chris
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Hi Chris,
Are you aware of these two methods offered by the Royal Mail to include duty fees when sending your book ?
https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid-ioss
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No, because I have no idea what they would be.
I will value the book at £10 most times.
I have priced the packaging at various local post offices and they all came up with a different amount, so I've chosen the lower estimate and will probably end up paying more myself.
Chris
Thanks Chris
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Hi Chris,
Are you aware of these two methods offered by the Royal Mail to include duty fees when sending your book ?
Like I said, I'm likely eating some of the postage myself to keep the postage fees down.
Several of my books already sent cost £25 and £26 to ship to America, but I'm charging £20.
And does anyone pay import taxes on a £10 book? I don't think so.
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Hi Chris,
Are you aware of these two methods offered by the Royal Mail to include duty fees when sending your book ?
Like I said, I'm likely eating some of the postage myself to keep the postage fees down.
Several of my books already sent cost £25 and £26 to ship to America, but I'm charging £20.
And does anyone pay import taxes on a £10 book? I don't think so.
I would recommend anyone to be gentle and if shipping costs are higher than you pay, when receive the book send an additional payment, I think that's fair. I know Chris is going to say NO to this, but please consider to be gentle.
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More details:
Payments to PayPal:
thataintworkin@icloud.com
£55 plus add your postage. Do message me or email to: thataintworkin@icloud.com
I'm doing this on my own, signing, packing and shipping, so I may miss a payment unless you notify me.
is it time restricted? or do you pla to kkep signing and posting for a while?
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oh and before i forget, MUST HAVE THIS....
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Thanks Jules.
I'm ok with the postage quoted. I was shocked how much it was, although the package with the book inside weighs 700g.
I'll probably be contributing £3 to £6 for each postage, but that's OK.
No need for anyone to offer extra, unless it's for multiple books.
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is it time restricted? or do you pla to kkep signing and posting for a while?
I have a few hundred books printed. I don't think they will all sell in the next few weeks. In any case, it takes me a long time to package them and post, so I can't process dozens of books per day.
If this print run sells out I may print more, but that depends if it takes months to sell what I already have or if demand is higher.
It isn't a limited edition.
I haven't really told everyone about the book yet, AMIT was first.
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is it time restricted? or do you pla to kkep signing and posting for a while?
I have a few hundred books printed. I don't think they will all sell in the next few weeks. In any case, it takes me a long time to package them and post, so I can't process dozens of books per day.
If this print run sells out I may print more, but that depends if it takes months to sell what I already have or if demand is higher.
It isn't a limited edition.
I haven't really told everyone about the book yet, AMIT was first.
Well, we all amiters spread the word around the internet!
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Hi Chris,
Are you aware of these two methods offered by the Royal Mail to include duty fees when sending your book ?
Like I said, I'm likely eating some of the postage myself to keep the postage fees down.
Several of my books already sent cost £25 and £26 to ship to America, but I'm charging £20.
And does anyone pay import taxes on a £10 book? I don't think so.
French VAT is applicable from the first euro
Problem for buyer : the third party that collect VAT will charges additional fees for collecting with of course a fixed minimum fee.
I give you a practical exemple :
Book custom value (corrected) : £55
VAT on book - RATE 5.5% (corrected) : £3.06
Shipping £10
VAT on shipping - RATE 20% : £2
Custom : £0 (european exemption for value under 150€)
Third party fee for collecting VAT and Custom :
Using "LA POSTE"
When paying online, the handling fee is €2 (£1.70) or €5 (£4.30) depending on the type of shipment. (which is probably the cheaper third party method)
When paying with the postman or at your collection point, the handling fee is €8 (£6.90).
So depending of the method the extra third party fees are between £1.70 and £6.90 using La Poste . It can be even more using other shipping company.
That is just a crazy system and a hassle for everybody (buyer and seller) doing business.
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The price is £55.
Postage in Europe is £10, which so far has often been less than the actual postage.
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I haven't really told everyone about the book yet, AMIT was first.
I shared the info on web, FB, Insta, X, and even LinkedIn
I hope it will give you more orders :)
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I shared the info on web, FB, Insta, X, and even LinkedIn
I hope it will give you more orders :)
Thank you so much.
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I worked as a photographer for many years and when I buy books from other photographers at galleries, they often cost more. Chris does not have to justify any cost, to anyone.
To question the amount of time or money put into the production is missing the point, however “well intended”. He wasn’t working for an hourly rate, nor should he or other artists have to justify costs in that way. He can charge what he likes. It’s a unique book that someone will VALUE themselves, if they want it.
I’ve felt before that some people on this forum also view all of DS work more as “consumables” and perhaps don’t seem to view them as creative works, made by all the creatives involved.
Chris has been realistic and upfront on getting things shipped, which should be enough in itself. It’s unfair to focus in on his shipping costs and potentially bog him down in admin, over a few quid. All of which is frankly beneath him in my view. On the contrary, he has gone out of his way to help.
From an archival perspective, Chris’ images are also a valuable record of that time. Film can degrade over the years, hence I questioned Ed last year on whether he knew if the unused Alchemy footage was all accounted for, as I feel that it would be prudent to have it all scanned at least for archival purposes, even if not to be released, akin to how a photo agency or museum would archive historic pieces, to avoid further degradation. Black and white film tends to be more stable, though colour film dyes can fade over the years depending on storage conditions. So, well done Chris for being proactive and getting your work collated and archived. It must have been a lot of work but I’m sure rewarding to hold the printed book in your hands.
Archiving the images is priceless.
Very well done on a beautiful looking book and getting it realised.
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I shared the info on web, FB, Insta, X, and even LinkedIn
I hope it will give you more orders :)
Thank you so much.
Hi Chris,
Knew about it thanks to JF post on both his blog and LinkedIn.
I ordered it today and I'm looking forward to receive it.
It's me who asked you to send it to a UK adress as my best friend is currently there.
Will save me the 10£ postage ;)
Greetings from Belgium
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I shared the info on web, FB, Insta, X, and even LinkedIn
I hope it will give you more orders :)
Thank you so much.
Hi Chris,
Knew about it thanks to JF post on both his blog and LinkedIn.
I ordered it today and I'm looking forward to receive it.
It's me who asked you to send it to a UK adress as my best friend is currently there.
Will save me the 10£ postage ;)
Greetings from Belgium
once a dutchy always a dutchy huh old friend....hiding in Belgium :-)
x
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I worked as a photographer for many years and when I buy books from other photographers at galleries, they often cost more. Chris does not have to justify any cost, to anyone.
To question the amount of time or money put into the production is missing the point, however “well intended”. He wasn’t working for an hourly rate, nor should he or other artists have to justify costs in that way. He can charge what he likes. It’s a unique book that someone will VALUE themselves, if they want it.
I’ve felt before that some people on this forum also view all of DS work more as “consumables” and perhaps don’t seem to view them as creative works, made by all the creatives involved.
Chris has been realistic and upfront on getting things shipped, which should be enough in itself. It’s unfair to focus in on his shipping costs and potentially bog him down in admin, over a few quid. All of which is frankly beneath him in my view. On the contrary, he has gone out of his way to help.
From an archival perspective, Chris’ images are also a valuable record of that time. Film can degrade over the years, hence I questioned Ed last year on whether he knew if the unused Alchemy footage was all accounted for, as I feel that it would be prudent to have it all scanned at least for archival purposes, even if not to be released, akin to how a photo agency or museum would archive historic pieces, to avoid further degradation. Black and white film tends to be more stable, though colour film dyes can fade over the years depending on storage conditions. So, well done Chris for being proactive and getting your work collated and archived. It must have been a lot of work but I’m sure rewarding to hold the printed book in your hands.
Archiving the images is priceless.
Very well done on a beautiful looking book and getting it realised.
well put. thnx
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I shared the info on web, FB, Insta, X, and even LinkedIn
I hope it will give you more orders :)
Thank you so much.
Hi Chris,
Knew about it thanks to JF post on both his blog and LinkedIn.
I ordered it today and I'm looking forward to receive it.
It's me who asked you to send it to a UK adress as my best friend is currently there.
Will save me the 10£ postage ;)
Greetings from Belgium
once a dutchy always a dutchy huh old friend....hiding in Belgium :-)
x
Dutch and Belgians are not the same.
Need to learn your geography, mate.
Anyway, why should I pay for postage if I can avoid ?
It's not like I'm robbing Chris of anything.
If I was "dutchy" I would not buy a 55£ book.
Also, why do you think I'm "hiding" in Belgium ?
It's my country.
Furthermore I'm from the
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hey how come many people are not tolerant here ?
once again, the right price for any product is the key to sell more and profit more,
I was trying to help Chris and also please more fans, that's all,
what's the problem ?
The "problem" is that you are not understanding psychology.
You may come with the best intention but the way you do it is inaccurate toward the people you try to explain your point.
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Did I ever say that ? No
Well you are, because you are thinking the book cost £5 to £8 to print and then saying I should sell it for £27.50 and make less profit.
So let's be honest here...
You are completely discounting (to £0) the man hours it took to produce, the cost of software, capture One, Photoshop, (In Design £22 a month and this is the only reason I needed it), the film scanning equipment, macro lens, 24mb digital camera.
Even just the exclusive nature of the photographs, never previously published, no other photographers embedded on the tour.
And you went to all the trouble of phoning your local book store?
This isn't a commercially published book. I'm doing it myself, I'm signing every copy, packing it and posting it at various local post offices.
Did I tell you to sell for raw costs ? No.
At £27.5 you would get a 70-80% profit margin which is really very good for any seller or any product,
I also thought the main point was to get your nice photographs to as many fans as possible, so that everybody wins.
Re the bookskop, I obviously asked if I wanted to print my own book 100 pages A4 black and white what's the cost and that was the answer, so same case as yours. I guess you don't want to answer what's your cost and that's fine.
Again it's rude not consider at all Chris many hours of hard work, your way of consider this is like Chris had to do nothing but print and sell. Work has to be valued and has to be paid.
PERIOD.
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Very well done on a beautiful looking book and getting it realised.
Thank you. Very much appreciated!
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Anyway, why should I pay for postage if I can avoid ?
It's not like I'm robbing Chris of anything.
It's so much easier to post to the UK.
Yesterday I spent a long time kneeling on the floor of a convenience store filling out ten customs forms before posting to Europe.
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He's directing it at a very very niche market, of maybe die-hard Dire Straits fans who buy anything associated with the name. That's why the price is so high, and I would do the same, to be honest.
I'm not directing it at anyone specifically.
Most high end photography books are around £50. I own quite a few. I fully realise I'm not a professional photographer making great art. But I priced the book based on 1) the two year's work it took to produce and 2) the completely exclusive nature of the images. No photographer was on the tour. We had the odd local guy at a handful of shows, DS hired a top photographer for the shows that were filmed for 'ON The Night'.
No photographer was hanging out with the band, at the less glamorous venues etc.
Having a cache of images that NO ONE has ever seen before is a one off moment. Once they are published they are out there, that's why I put a higher value on the book.
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Yesterday I spent a long time kneeling on the floor of a convenience store filling out ten customs forms before posting to Europe.
Rock and roll man.
You shoulda learned to play the guitar. You shoulda learned to play them drums.
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Ha, Ha.
:smack
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I shared the info on web, FB, Insta, X, and even LinkedIn
I hope it will give you more orders :)
Thank you so much.
Hi Chris,
Knew about it thanks to JF post on both his blog and LinkedIn.
I ordered it today and I'm looking forward to receive it.
It's me who asked you to send it to a UK adress as my best friend is currently there.
Will save me the 10£ postage ;)
Greetings from Belgium
once a dutchy always a dutchy huh old friend....hiding in Belgium :-)
x
Dutch and Belgians are not the same.
Need to learn your geography, mate.
Anyway, why should I pay for postage if I can avoid ?
It's not like I'm robbing Chris of anything.
If I was "dutchy" I would not buy a 55£ book.
Also, why do you think I'm "hiding" in Belgium ?
It's my country.
Furthermore I'm from the
waldo, just pulling a leg...
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Anyway, why should I pay for postage if I can avoid ?
It's not like I'm robbing Chris of anything.
It's so much easier to post to the UK.
Yesterday I spent a long time kneeling on the floor of a convenience store filling out ten customs forms before posting to Europe.
well we know who is to thank for that bureuacratic nightmare
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I shared the info on web, FB, Insta, X, and even LinkedIn
I hope it will give you more orders :)
Thank you so much.
Hi Chris,
Knew about it thanks to JF post on both his blog and LinkedIn.
I ordered it today and I'm looking forward to receive it.
It's me who asked you to send it to a UK adress as my best friend is currently there.
Will save me the 10£ postage ;)
Greetings from Belgium
once a dutchy always a dutchy huh old friend....hiding in Belgium :-)
x
Dutch and Belgians are not the same.
Need to learn your geography, mate.
Anyway, why should I pay for postage if I can avoid ?
It's not like I'm robbing Chris of anything.
If I was "dutchy" I would not buy a 55£ book.
Also, why do you think I'm "hiding" in Belgium ?
It's my country.
Furthermore I'm from the
waldo, just pulling a leg...
i now realise you are not the Waldo i know, that is actually dutch, lives in belgium and has a great sense of humor. so forget my comments. obviously you are someone totally different, new here. or to say it differently, je suis desolée little frenchie
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Anyway, why should I pay for postage if I can avoid ?
It's not like I'm robbing Chris of anything.
It's so much easier to post to the UK.
Yesterday I spent a long time kneeling on the floor of a convenience store filling out ten customs forms before posting to Europe.
Are you talking about CN22 ?
I though you can do it online now and print it at home.
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I shared the info on web, FB, Insta, X, and even LinkedIn
I hope it will give you more orders :)
Thank you so much.
Hi Chris,
Knew about it thanks to JF post on both his blog and LinkedIn.
I ordered it today and I'm looking forward to receive it.
It's me who asked you to send it to a UK adress as my best friend is currently there.
Will save me the 10£ postage ;)
Greetings from Belgium
once a dutchy always a dutchy huh old friend....hiding in Belgium :-)
x
Dutch and Belgians are not the same.
Need to learn your geography, mate.
Anyway, why should I pay for postage if I can avoid ?
It's not like I'm robbing Chris of
i now realise you are not the Waldo i know, that is actually dutch, lives in belgium and has a great sense of humor. so forget my comments. obviously you are someone totally different, new here. or to say it differently, je suis desolée little frenchie
No worries, I do have a good sense of humor too.
I guess Waldo is often used.
In my case it's short for my last name.
Btw, I'm not frenchie either.
But I reckon my mother tongue is French.
Cheers !
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Are you talking about CN22 ?
I though you can do it online now and print it at home.
I'll look into it.
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Yesterday I spent a long time kneeling on the floor of a convenience store filling out ten customs forms before posting to Europe.
Rock and roll man.
You shoulda learned to play the guitar. You shoulda learned to play them drums.
Dusty you won't believe it but I really wanted to write the same thing. :D
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Yesterday I spent a long time kneeling on the floor of a convenience store filling out ten customs forms before posting to Europe.
Rock and roll man.
You shoulda learned to play the guitar. You shoulda learned to play them drums.
Dusty you won't believe it but I really wanted to write the same thing. :D
Great minds think alike... or fools seldom differ? :hmm
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Yesterday I spent a long time kneeling on the floor of a convenience store filling out ten customs forms before posting to Europe.
Rock and roll man.
You shoulda learned to play the guitar. You shoulda learned to play them drums.
Dusty you won't believe it but I really wanted to write the same thing. :D
Great minds think alike... or fools seldom differ? :hmm
I am happy to choose the first option ;)
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How dare the last drummer in DS give us hardcore fans a privileged look at his personal photos from a tour most of us probably attended. Seriously people get a grip. It’s a chuffing honour he has done this for us.
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How dare the last drummer in DS give us hardcore fans a privileged look at his personal photos from a tour most of us probably attended. Seriously people get a grip. It’s a chuffing honour he has done this for us.
"Honour he has done this for us"
Is this a sarcastic remark? He's selling a friggin book mate.
I find it funny and strange that some people seem to have Chris in high regard for everything he does and says now, whilst before he joined the forum nobody really talked about him and when they did it was to criticize his drumming during the tour.
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I find it funny and strange that some people seem to have Chris in high regard for everything he does and says now, whilst before he joined the forum nobody really talked about him and when they did it was to criticize his drumming during the tour.
Sure, which ever way it is, I haven't asked to be spoken about.
Many people have asked me to make this book for years. people asked me to wrote a book about the tour before they even knew I had any photographs. When I posted a few photographs on Instagram a lot more people asked me to do the book.
What is your problem?
I don't have any problem
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I was thinking of doing this anyway, as I thought some members might find it interesting. The first image is straight out of camera, with only the negative reversed to make a positive image. The second image is the final one, after hours of dust and scratch removal. The more you zoom into the first image, the more you see a blizzard of dirt and dust particles.
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How dare the last drummer in DS give us hardcore fans a privileged look at his personal photos from a tour most of us probably attended. Seriously people get a grip. It’s a chuffing honour he has done this for us.
"Honour he has done this for us"
Is this a sarcastic remark? He's selling a friggin book mate.
I find it funny and strange that some people seem to have Chris in high regard for everything he does and says now, whilst before he joined the forum nobody really talked about him and when they did it was to criticize his drumming during the tour.
This forum is getting fucking toxic. Cant be fucked with it anymore. Too many c**ts on it mate.
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This forum is getting fucking toxic. Cant be fucked with it anymore. Too many c**ts on it mate.
Luckily there are only a handful and we just banned one of them (again).
I will clean up the nonsense out of this thread and just ask everyone else to remind themselves of the rules, along with the good old internet advice "Don't post something you wouldn't say to someone's face". :)
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More on the subject matter...
These are some test prints I made while putting the book together:
Great pictures Chris! How did you manage to take pictures during a show while you where drumming? Did you had your camera always on stage ?
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"Don't post something you wouldn't say to someone's face".
:thumbsup
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It was usually the encores, especially the front of MFN.
Mark would play the Gtr riff once then stop and the crowd would scream and cheer for minutes, allowing me to snap a pic or two.
Really there was no other time in the show I could take pictures, so most in the book are days off, travel days and sound checks.
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It was usually the encores, especially the front of MFN.
Mark would play the Gtr riff once then stop and the crowd would scream and cheer for minutes, allowing me to snap a pic or two.
Really there was no other time in the show I could take pictures, so most in the book are days off, travel days and sound checks.
Thnx for answering!
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I was thinking of doing this anyway, as I thought some members might find it interesting. The first image is straight out of camera, with only the negative reversed to make a positive image. The second image is the final one, after hours of dust and scratch removal. The more you zoom into the first image, the more you see a blizzard of dirt and dust particles.
Great job restoring the pictures! The book is actually cheap.
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How dare the last drummer in DS give us hardcore fans a privileged look at his personal photos from a tour most of us probably attended. Seriously people get a grip. It’s a chuffing honour he has done this for us.
"Honour he has done this for us"
Is this a sarcastic remark? He's selling a friggin book mate.
I find it funny and strange that some people seem to have Chris in high regard for everything he does and says now, whilst before he joined the forum nobody really talked about him and when they did it was to criticize his drumming during the tour.
When you interact with someone your view and opinion about him/her obviously changes
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How dare the last drummer in DS give us hardcore fans a privileged look at his personal photos from a tour most of us probably attended. Seriously people get a grip. It’s a chuffing honour he has done this for us.
"Honour he has done this for us"
Is this a sarcastic remark? He's selling a friggin book mate.
I find it funny and strange that some people seem to have Chris in high regard for everything he does and says now, whilst before he joined the forum nobody really talked about him and when they did it was to criticize his drumming during the tour.
When you interact with someone your view and opinion about him/her obviously changes
Exactly that, so obvious, I don't know how anyone doesn't notice it. ::)
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Chris, ever thought about sending a copy to Mark or Guy?
I know you owe them nothing of course. I was just watching the Nimes 1992 Sultans and saw so many good vibes and lots of smiles that it is hard to believe and tough that there are not at least a few nice or friendly memories at least from the occasional shared musical experience.
By the way, That Ain't Working is a very well chosen title, with at least a double or even triple meaning.
LE
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I shared the info on web, FB, Insta, X, and even LinkedIn
I hope it will give you more orders :)
Thank you so much.
Hi Chris,
Knew about it thanks to JF post on both his blog and LinkedIn.
I ordered it today and I'm looking forward to receive it.
It's me who asked you to send it to a UK adress as my best friend is currently there.
Will save me the 10£ postage ;)
Greetings from Belgium
once a dutchy always a dutchy huh old friend....hiding in Belgium :-)
x
Dutch and Belgians are not the same.
Need to learn your geography, mate.
Anyway, why should I pay for postage if I can avoid ?
It's not like I'm robbing Chris of
i now realise you are not the Waldo i know, that is actually dutch, lives in belgium and has a great sense of humor. so forget my comments. obviously you are someone totally different, new here. or to say it differently, je suis desolée little frenchie
No worries, I do have a good sense of humor too.
I guess Waldo is often used.
In my case it's short for my last name.
Btw, I'm not frenchie either.
But I reckon my mother tongue is French.
Cheers !
thnx for the update. saw your email account was .fr
therefore i assumed. should assume less i guess.
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How dare the last drummer in DS give us hardcore fans a privileged look at his personal photos from a tour most of us probably attended. Seriously people get a grip. It’s a chuffing honour he has done this for us.
"Honour he has done this for us"
Is this a sarcastic remark? He's selling a friggin book mate.
I find it funny and strange that some people seem to have Chris in high regard for everything he does and says now, whilst before he joined the forum nobody really talked about him and when they did it was to criticize his drumming during the tour.
ok, i get it, the book is too expensive for you, or you deem it too expensive, which is not exactly the same thing. that is your god given right, but why the need for the continued negative comments? do not buy it, ignore this thread, issue solved?
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By the way, That Ain't Working is a very well chosen title, with at least a double or even triple meaning.
LE
Yes. As most of the photography is travel and hanging around at venues, it is apt. As most people think a tour is one long party, but it's a lot of hanging around in empty spaces.
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How dare the last drummer in DS give us hardcore fans a privileged look at his personal photos from a tour most of us probably attended. Seriously people get a grip. It’s a chuffing honour he has done this for us.
"Honour he has done this for us"
Is this a sarcastic remark? He's selling a friggin book mate.
I find it funny and strange that some people seem to have Chris in high regard for everything he does and says now, whilst before he joined the forum nobody really talked about him and when they did it was to criticize his drumming during the tour.
ok, i get it, the book is too expensive for you, or you deem it too expensive, which is not exactly the same thing. that is your god given right, but why the need for the continued negative comments? do not buy it, ignore this thread, issue solved?
All right Pottel, why don't you go ahead and change the name of the forum to APIT - All Positives in Time? Do you also follow that code of conduct in your daily life, only saying positive things all the time and refraining from opening your mouth if it's something negative?
This forum feels like a cult at times, where if one says something that deviates from what's deemed "positive", one is scolded at.
You know, I used to love to come here and read Pavel's posts whether I agreed with them or not, whether they were negative or not because he is an intelligent, knowledgeable and funny guy. I'm afraid he stopped posting here because many people here beat him down really hard because he dared to say some negative things to Chris Whitten (and he wasn't disrespectful by any means).
I don't think any member here has been as negative as Chris Whitten, as a huge amount of his posts were just repetitions about how awful working with Mark was and how he stopped playing the drums after the tour and so on. And that's fine, I didn't complain
But if you're warning me that I can't be "negative" any more, why bother coming here really
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How dare the last drummer in DS give us hardcore fans a privileged look at his personal photos from a tour most of us probably attended. Seriously people get a grip. It’s a chuffing honour he has done this for us.
"Honour he has done this for us"
Is this a sarcastic remark? He's selling a friggin book mate.
I find it funny and strange that some people seem to have Chris in high regard for everything he does and says now, whilst before he joined the forum nobody really talked about him and when they did it was to criticize his drumming during the tour.
ok, i get it, the book is too expensive for you, or you deem it too expensive, which is not exactly the same thing. that is your god given right, but why the need for the continued negative comments? do not buy it, ignore this thread, issue solved?
All right Pottel, why don't you go ahead and change the name of the forum to APIT - All Positives in Time? Do you also follow that code of conduct in your daily life, only saying positive things all the time and refraining from opening your mouth if it's something negative?
This forum feels like a cult at times, where if one says something that deviates from what's deemed "positive", one is scolded at.
You know, I used to love to come here and read Pavel's posts whether I agreed with them or not, whether they were negative or not because he is an intelligent, knowledgeable and funny guy. I'm afraid he stopped posting here because many people here beat him down really hard because he dared to say some negative things to Chris Whitten (and he wasn't disrespectful by any means).
I don't think any member here has been as negative as Chris Whitten, as a huge amount of his posts were just repetitions about how awful working with Mark was and how he stopped playing the drums after the tour and so on. And that's fine, I didn't complain
But if you're warning me that I can't be "negative" any more, why bother coming here really
jeez what the eff is your issue? i do not care less about some negativism left and right, but this constant whining is boring. if you do not like it here, move. quite a few members have been more negative than chris, even though he was THE ONLY ONE who was actually on that tour, and experienced the darkness of it, which us, get a lifer fans never saw as we were in deep admiration for our "hero" at the time. Also, it is not just Chris, Ed said nothing else. and so did quite a few other ex members of the band, not anonymous forum members sitting in their mothers' basement trolling away.
we are on here to discuss ANYTHING related to the man who's music we all love or used to love so much, and that is what it should be about, the music.
pls be negative, just sprinkle a bit of positive thoughts in there every now then, otherwise it becomes boring. it is the mix that does it, not the overdose of the one, or the other.
but again, for all of those who are not happy with the way this forum is, no one is stopping you to move back to that other great forum, MKnews.
now let's get back to discussing the book. that is what this particular thread was made about.
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Haven't we moved on yet?
Regarding Pavel. He would sometimes make outlandish claims and was never in the band or at any of the events he described to know what the facts were.
Ed Bicknell posted on this forum at length, setting the record straight on a lot of Pavel's misinformation, which had nothing to do with me. I was surprised Ed went to all the trouble of writing lengthy answers to a lot of the guess work and claims made by a couple of members.
if Pavel doesn't post here anymore, it isn't because he was 'beat down hard', for me it seems like he didn't want to be fact checked.
*I started going to the Gearslutz music forum in 2000. In the beginning many studio professionals (record producers, gear makers) would post there. You could ask a well known record producer which mics he used on a specific record etc. Over time, angry amateurs abused those professionals and they drifted away one by one. Now it's very rare to talk to a professional on Gearslutz (Gearspace).
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slutz, really? lol
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The positives of the tour...
The band played and sounded great. We entertained millions of people over more than a year of shows. many of those people still cherish that experience. Mark and John walked away very much wealthier.
After the tour both Ed Bicknell and John Illsley didi media interviews and revealed how difficult the tour had been.
I don't intend to talk about my negative experience with Mark. But his bad attitude to drummers was well known in the UK scene before I even met him. Manu Katche went public on that back in the 90's.
I only ever posted when someone guessed something about what it was like, or painted Mark as an angel and the various drummers were at fault.
I had to keep reminding people that the way the whole band played on the OES tour was directed by Mark. We rehearsed for months and played hundreds of shows. No one went off on their own tangent and potentially ruined the music without being told to play a certain way by Mark.
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slutz, really? lol
Yes, after years of pressure, they finally changed it to Space...Gearspace.
It was one of the very first web based chat forums, so I guess they didn't think the name was going to be that controversial, but it became so.
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[/quote] thnx for the update. saw your email account was .fr
therefore i assumed. should assume less i guess.
[/quote]
Fair enough,
Actually my adress is .fr because when I created it it was not possible to chose .be
So the confusion is understandable.
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Haven't we moved on yet?
Regarding Pavel. He would sometimes make outlandish claims and was never in the band or at any of the events he described to know what the facts were.
Ed Bicknell posted on this forum at length, setting the record straight on a lot of Pavel's misinformation, which had nothing to do with me. I was surprised Ed went to all the trouble of writing lengthy answers to a lot of the guess work and claims made by a couple of members.
if Pavel doesn't post here anymore, it isn't because he was 'beat down hard', for me it seems like he didn't want to be fact checked.
*I started going to the Gearslutz music forum in 2000. In the beginning many studio professionals (record producers, gear makers) would post there. You could ask a well known record producer which mics he used on a specific record etc. Over time, angry amateurs abused those professionals and they drifted away one by one. Now it's very rare to talk to a professional on Gearslutz (Gearspace).
You see, that's the problem. You participate in this forum like a political debate, where one can only say things that are 100% true. It's a fan forum, dude, it's the right place to make "outlandish claims" not to be fact-checked.
Your posts were informative and interesting to read at first, but when other members disagreed with you, or said something that you didn't like for whatever reason, you suddenly become agressive saying that they weren't in the band or they don't know all the facts and so their opinion didn't matter. Of course they don't, it's a fan forum! Why do you even care so much about fan speculation over things that happened 34 years ago? Let it go man...
I don't feel like being a part of this forum anymore due to this so I'll just stop participating here. I liked it better when it was just a bunch of angry amateurs
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You see, that's the problem. You participate in this forum like a political debate, where one can only say things that are 100% true. It's a fan forum, dude, it's the right place to make "outlandish claims" not to be fact-checked.
First, it seems that my having made a book of photographs from the OES tour has unleashed a lot of anger in one or two people. Bizarre.
Secondly, I don't even post in 99% of the topics at this forum. In particular I NEVER post in topics about things I know nothing about (1970's Dire Straits, Alchemy, the previous tours, Mark's work since 1992, the list goes on and on).
Why you would start to dislike the forum because I participate in 1% of the topics is also bizarre.
So by my not participating in the majority of the threads people can light heartedly guess all they want.
When people talk about Manu Katche saying he hated working with Mark and just wanted the session to end, then go on to claim Manu wasn't good enough and Mark was just trying to get the drums right.... I'm sorry I'm going to state view, having experienced similar situations myself (in the real world).
When people start saying I'm the 'worst drummer Dire Straits ever had', I'm going to put my side of the story. I think I did so with humility, stating clearly with hindsight I wish I had done some things differently and would approach the gig much differently now, 35 years later. But at the same time, during the three months rehearsal Mark beat me down and by the time we started playing for paying audiences I was basically trying very hard to play the way Mark wanted me to play and was unwilling to try a different way, unwilling to suggest a different way for fear of falling victim to an acid tongue in front of the rest of the musicians again.
If you just prefer guess work from the sidelines and never be told the truth by insiders, then I think you are going to miss out on an awful lot.
And finally, all this ire is directed at me. Ed has posted at length on the forum, setting the record straight often in much more damning posts than mine. Why aren't you angry with him? ? ? Could it just be personal?
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Why do you even care so much about fan speculation over things that happened 34 years ago? Let it go man...
You are the one posting about it, not me.
I never brought it up in this thread, you and one or two others did. You continue to post rather angrily while myself and others have tried to drag it back to the topic.
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with hindsight I wish I had done some things differently and would approach the gig much differently now, 35 years later
What would or could you do differently Chris? I'm not a professional musician but I think we've all had jobs where the boss is uncompromising and you just have to go along with what they tell you to do, because they're the boss. Presumably if you just quit it would have had serious ramifications for your career, and I'm sure you wouldn't have wanted to affect all the other workers on the tour, or indeed the fans.
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I've talked about these things on the forum before.
Apart from the single 'Sultans Of Swing' the Dire Straits album I knew best was Brothers In Arms.
My career goal in the 1980's was to play and sound like the top American studio drummers - so Omar Hakim and Jeff Porcaro.
When I met with Mark and John at Air Studios while they were mixing OES, they had me 'audition' by playing a long to the new songs, 'Calling Elvis', 'Heavy Fuel' etc..
I thought, this is right up my street, I think I can actually play these songs well on tour. I mistakenly didn't really think about the older material.
I think I DID play those songs very well on tour - Brothers In Arms, Money For Nothing, Calling Elvis, The Bug, ON Every Street etc...
In rehearsals Mark brought out much earlier songs, the ones Pick played on. Pick's style was the opposite to mine. My style was American session style, stripped back, grounded in a solid bass drum, with a clear snare back beat.
Pick's playing was like dance. Quite busy cymbals and snare, in conversation with Mark's guitar. My first mistake was not seeing the value in that. I just saw it as too busy, too lightweight.
In rehearsals Mark would sometimes say - this isn't working and that song got left off the set.
It was a bit of difficult task. The tour was promoting OES, with one style of drumming. Also the previous massive hit album (BIA) also featured that style of drumming. I thought that's why I was brought in. And it was uncomfortable for me to suddenly try and become Pick MK2 for other songs in the show. I very much regret bulldozing my way through Sultans Of Swing on the tour.
Now here's the other problem that wasn't of my making.
The stage design had me high up at the back, about as far away from Mark and John as you could be. The first time we played on the stage (production rehearsals), Mark held up his hand and shouted "woah". He couldn't hear my drums. So they tried putting more of my drums in his monitors, then tried putting more in the side fills. each time all that happened was that Mark couldn't hear his voice and guitar clearly any more.
What became clear was Mark was used to feeling the energy of the drums right behind him, and also some of the acoustic bleed of the drums, over and above the guitar amps and keyboards. It was a terrible stage design.
So Mark had me play and kept pointing skyward, meaning play louder, until I was just about at maximum playing volume. Then he shouted into the mic, "that's perfect, keep it there".
So I ended up absolutely smacking my drums as hard as I could from the first to last minute of a 2+ hour show. A lot of subtlety and musicality went out of the window right there. I could have pointed that out at the time, but after three months of rehearsals I was just focused on doing what Mark wanted me to do and keeping my head down.
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Thanks Chris. I'm still not sure what you could have done differently, other than potentially doing some research early on on Pick's stuff, but Terry hadn't played like that for the previous two tours either.
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I kind of wish I had spoken out. But as I say, that might have invited more ire and not really solved anything.
I might have been able to modify my playing over a few weeks without Mark noticing.
If you watch Pick's recent Youtube interviews, he says that one of the reasons he left Dire Straits was when Mark and John started asking him to play much louder. He didn't enjoy playing that way and also felt it ruined the feel of the songs. So it seems this obsession with loud drumming in the band goes way back.
Like in the current USA situation, they say if you stand up to bullies you end up getting more respect. Other people in the band (White, Franklin, Clark, Cummings) got to play the way they normally played. So maybe I should have made my opinions heard.
But also I always felt like the song writer was the expert on the song and I should always try and realise their vision and keep my own opinions to myself.
As you say, in the end it was a bit of a no win situation.
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Back to the book.
Buyers from Europe should be getting their copies today or soon. I hope no one is disappointed.
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Sorry Chris, this may be an inappropriate question. But in retrospect do you think you made a mistake? That you didn't tell MK? You're the drummer, not Mark. You had the right to know better.
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Difficult call.
I made a mistake not assessing Pick's style carefully enough.
My references were Terry, Omar and Jeff - which was usually straight down the line rock drumming. That WAS my stye too.
If I was asked to play those songs today, I'd try and emulate the Withers feel more closely. Actually, one of the reasons I stopped playing with Dire Straits Experience, because a lot of the show is Pick era music and that's just not my style.
I probably couldn't tell Mark how the drumming should have been, and I doubt he wouldn't have taken it on board anyway.
But almost the biggest issue was the stage design, which was a problem that couldn't be fixed. Aesthetically it made sense.
Guitars at the front, drums and percussion at the back, bit sonically it really hurt the vibe on stage.
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I understand. Thanks Chris. I've always thought that everyone has a different style and that's a great thing. But it is certainly more complicated than that.
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Not the best circunstances to be playing in such a big band during so much time.
Thanks Chris for all your explanations, it made me understand why I didn't like the drums approach in that tour in the old classic DS songs, specially Sultans, I quite liked your drumming in the new songs, specially Calling Elvis and Heavy fuel. I can't believe nobody thought that stage design would affect everything and that the solution would be "play louder", I guess it would have been differnt nowadays with the IEM system, don't you think?
All your posts here made me appreciate more your playing in that tour. Althought I'm a fan I always considered that everyone playing music are human beings and that image that many have of MK being like a perfect person that can't do wrong was NEVER the image I have about him. Of course he was DS so whatever he wanted DS to be was what he wanted, but it doesn't mean he couldn't be wrong, he's human, he did wrong many times and there is no problem admitting that.
Looking very much forward ro receive your book. Thanks for taking so much pain working on the pictures.
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IEM's probably make things better. But also Mark and John are old school. They came up through sweaty clubs. I did too.
There is a kind of energy you feel from drums if you stand in front of them. You can't really replicate it with monitors or IEMs.
I'm sure they could FEEL Terry on the BIA tour.
That's why we brought in the separate Sultans kit from USA onwards. However it was a compromise. I didn't have great monitoring and I was sat at head height right in front of Marks multiple guitar amps. I could barely hear what I was doing and that also contributed to my frantic, heavy handed way of playing the song.
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I just play in pubs and even we use IEMs now.
Yes, it's not same, and you don't get that "feel", but the plus side is that you can hear everything clearly and most importantly, you don't trash your hearing.
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That's why we brought in the separate Sultans kit from USA onwards. However it was a compromise. I didn't have great monitoring and I was sat at head height right in front of Marks multiple guitar amps. I could barely hear what I was doing and that also contributed to my frantic, heavy handed way of playing the song.
I remember I liked that thing of being the four of you playing together the first part of the song when I saw the Basel broadcast, but never thought about the difficulties for you playing at the same floor level and that close to not only MK amps but also John's and Phil's, now I understand the way you play that song, and how stupid was I with that offensive comment that made you come here. Actually my rudeness brought something good, having you here with us giving first hand information!
I don't remember if anyone asked you before about that drum solo at the end of MFN, was MK's idea, yours, or anyone else's? I liked it and probably felt great for those attending.
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I kind of morphed into the solo ending on MFN over a few shows.
That's the other thing I massively regret (other than Sultans). I played it a few times and Mark never asked me to stop. Most nights it wasn't very good, I'm not a great soloist. Some nights it came off.
I was too scared to stop doing it after a while, I think would have been better had I never started it in the first place.
Those are the three things I regret.
The ending of MFN.
The bulldozer approach to Sultans.
The fact I didn't take Pick's style of playing seriously enough to understand it.
Other than that I am proud of my contribution to the OES tour and did the absolute best I could, under the circumstances.
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I kind of morphed into the solo ending on MFN over a few shows.
That's the other thing I massively regret (other than Sultans). I played it a few times and Mark never asked me to stop. Most nights it wasn't very good, I'm not a great soloist. Some nights it came off.
I was too scared to stop doing it after a while, I think would have been better had I never started it in the first place.
Those are the three things I regret.
The ending of MFN.
The bulldozer approach to Sultans.
The fact I didn't take Pick's style of playing seriously enough to understand it.
Other than that I am proud of my contribution to the OES tour and did the absolute best I could, under the circumstances.
I just went to youtube and searched for the MFN from the Nimes tv broadcast, as it's been many years I didn't see it. From my point of view the drum solo suits perfectly well not only the song but that exact part of the song, actually I forgot that during the solo the band played along faster and faster which made it quite a great ending for the song in my opinion.
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I kind of morphed into the solo ending on MFN over a few shows.
That's the other thing I massively regret (other than Sultans). I played it a few times and Mark never asked me to stop. Most nights it wasn't very good, I'm not a great soloist. Some nights it came off.
I was too scared to stop doing it after a while, I think would have been better had I never started it in the first place.
Those are the three things I regret.
The ending of MFN.
The bulldozer approach to Sultans.
The fact I didn't take Pick's style of playing seriously enough to understand it.
Other than that I am proud of my contribution to the OES tour and did the absolute best I could, under the circumstances.
I just went to youtube and searched for the MFN from the Nimes tv broadcast, as it's been many years I didn't see it. From my point of view the drum solo suits perfectly well not only the song but that exact part of the song, actually I forgot that during the solo the band played along faster and faster which made it quite a great ending for the song in my opinion.
Personally I thought the ending to MfN with the drums and then that keyboard loop was great, and it certainly sounded absolutely amazing live.
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I kind of morphed into the solo ending on MFN over a few shows.
That's the other thing I massively regret (other than Sultans). I played it a few times and Mark never asked me to stop. Most nights it wasn't very good, I'm not a great soloist. Some nights it came off.
I was too scared to stop doing it after a while, I think would have been better had I never started it in the first place.
Those are the three things I regret.
The ending of MFN.
The bulldozer approach to Sultans.
The fact I didn't take Pick's style of playing seriously enough to understand it.
Other than that I am proud of my contribution to the OES tour and did the absolute best I could, under the circumstances.
I read about the problems with the Pick era songs.
I saw you three times during the tour and you were great also because DS played so many different styles, so many different rhythms.
Your latest trick is opposite to The bug, Tunnel of love is opposite to Planet of New Orleans.
Withers' style was a mix of swing/jazz and always ended with little solos (just look at Rainbow and BBC), the music they played with him was the opposite of what DS played in 1992.
DS live shows from 1978-1981 were imperfect, but sublime for that reason.
From BIA onwards they tended towards perfection, MK had become like Roger Waters.
Two different planets.
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I agree with all of that.
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I agree with all of that.
Christ, I know things were bad, but surely comparing MK with Roger Waters is a step too far!
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IEM's probably make things better. But also Mark and John are old school. They came up through sweaty clubs. I did too.
There is a kind of energy you feel from drums if you stand in front of them. You can't really replicate it with monitors or IEMs.
I'm sure they could FEEL Terry on the BIA tour.
That's why we brought in the separate Sultans kit from USA onwards. However it was a compromise. I didn't have great monitoring and I was sat at head height right in front of Marks multiple guitar amps. I could barely hear what I was doing and that also contributed to my frantic, heavy handed way of playing the song.
Where exactly were the speaker cabs located on stage? I’ve always thought they were off stage..? Was they below the podiums, facing the front and covered by molton?
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Christ, I know things were bad, but surely comparing MK with Roger Waters is a step too far!
I didn't think I would be taken so literally. I don't actually mind Roger Waters. He comes across as difficult and IS apparently difficult.
Besides that one name check, the rest of the post was absolutely right from my experience.
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Where exactly were the speaker cabs located on stage?
Yes, hidden under the stage risers, pointing out towards Phil, Mark and John. It was loud!
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Christ, I know things were bad, but surely comparing MK with Roger Waters is a step too far!
I didn't think I would be taken so literally. I don't actually mind Roger Waters. He comes across as difficult and IS apparently difficult.
Besides that one name check, the rest of the post was absolutely right from my experience.
Was just having a bit of fun :)
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I agree with all of that.
Chris, I remember a stunning and extended live version of MFN, whose idea was it to end with that beautiful solo (which does not appear in OtN)?
Which were the most complex songs of the tour to perform?
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Planet Of New Orleans
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The bulldozer approach to Sultans.
One thing my drawing tutor used to say back in the 90’s that always stuck with me, was that she liked to see some “struggle” in a drawing. So, I tend to look for some “struggle” in any art. Incidentally, AI images seem to lack any of that struggle for me. The element of struggle seems to be something that we can relate to as people and is something that makes us connect with art, music and other people when we sense it.
Your drums on Sultans, Basel ’92 seem to me that you are pushing it into that edgy area, which makes it exciting. It adds tension. Mark’s playing seemed to have become almost gracefully “effortless” by that period, and your drumming adds the feeling of pushing things, and adds that tension and struggle rather than it being just a “walk in the park” for incredible musicians. The combination of you really going for it and pushing yourself hard, and Mark dancing around the fretboard in his prime is what makes the Basel Sultans performance so great to me.
I don’t know whether Mark had instinctively sensed that his playing had developed to such a point that DS needed some struggle added back in, somehow, hence pushing the drums harder and harder. For me, if things were played live as effortlessly as the post-Pick studio album drumming feels, in a kind of comfort zone maybe, it could have felt more like his solo years, to me. I’m glad you played it as you did. It was great.
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Planet Of New Orleans
Although it was difficult to play can you imagine that that song was a highlight / fan favorite?
To be honest I am happy that Some great sounding bootlegs circulate with that song because there is not an official recording of it.
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I preferred other songs in the set.
Obviously 'Calling Elvis' was fun. I liked Romeo and Juliet, You And Your Friend in particular.
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I don’t know whether Mark had instinctively sensed that his playing had developed to such a point that DS needed some struggle added back in, somehow, hence pushing the drums harder and harder.
Mark just wanted me to play louder, which actually was not a good thing.
The way I tried to playoff Mark's guitar was more of an instinctive thing. My first pro gig was with fusion guitarist Gary Boyle. His jazz-rock guitar solos were long and evolved they went a long. It was my thing to match his intensity with my drumming.
Then in the 80's I played a lot of New Wave, which again meant playing business and louder as the song progressed.
So I took that to Dire Straits, rather than just sitting back and playing the grooves.
It did push myself to my limit many times during the show, but really that was my decision, based on the usual way I played.
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A lot of musicians speaks about the dynamics they learned from playing with mark. Can you give some examples or elaborate on this?
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Most rock and pop is played at one dynamic, or even at a very limited range between 'quiet' and loud. This is especially the case in the studio.
Rehearsing for the OES tour, the quiet was so quiet, you were barely touching your instrument. The loud, was extremely loud and hard hit.
Sometimes we'd go from full on loud to almost no sound in an instant.
Dire Straits is one of the few bands where tempos change in songs, intensity changes in very short instances.
Most bands start a song and it stays the same tempo throughout, and perhaps gradually gets louder towards the end, but basically a set dynamic.
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I don’t know whether Mark had instinctively sensed that his playing had developed to such a point that DS needed some struggle added back in, somehow, hence pushing the drums harder and harder.
Mark just wanted me to play louder, which actually was not a good thing.
The way I tried to playoff Mark's guitar was more of an instinctive thing. My first pro gig was with fusion guitarist Gary Boyle. His jazz-rock guitar solos were long and evolved they went a long. It was my thing to match his intensity with my drumming.
Then in the 80's I played a lot of New Wave, which again meant playing business and louder as the song progressed.
So I took that to Dire Straits, rather than just sitting back and playing the grooves.
It did push myself to my limit many times during the show, but really that was my decision, based on the usual way I played.
Thanks Chris
That’s very insightful and makes more sense to me now. Although I also understand the stage design issues you’ve mentioned, I suppose it still surprised me that it would come down to such things as just “play louder” and so I was wondering if there was further reasoning behind it, which it seems there wasn’t.
Also, for getting such complex songs ready, as say Telegraph Road or Tunnel of Love, I’d maybe assumed that there would have been lengthly discussions and dialogue, but I get the feeling that it was almost that you had to “hit the ground running” in some respects?
Listening to Gary Boyle, I can see how that would have been a wealth of experience to draw upon for working with other guitarists. Thanks again.
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Hi,
There might have been lengthy discussions. I can't remember.
Most likely I was told ahead of time to learn the live version from a tape. I remember being given the Sydney 1985 show to watch and learn.
Mark essentially directed the rehearsals and had the final say in everything, but Alan and Guy acted as musical directors.
CW
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Hi,
There might have been lengthy discussions. I can't remember.
Most likely I was told ahead of time to learn the live version from a tape. I remember being given the Sydney 1985 show to watch and learn.
Mark essentially directed the rehearsals and had the final say in everything, but Alan and Guy acted as musical directors.
CW
Thank you Chris, much appreciated.
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Chris, I was in Basel in 1992, front row, and couldn't believe how good the band was. That includes Mark (I mean, listen to You and Your Friend, one of your favourites -- was he EVER better than that?), and it includes you. I loved the drum solos in Calling Elvis and at the end of Money for Nothing, and I refuse to believe that Mark didn't, also. Why would he have turned to you and Danny every night, watching you like we, the fans, did? There would have been no need (and no okay) for that if he didn't think it was a good idea. He may have gone through a difficult time personally, and that may have affected the chemistry (or lack thereof) backstage, but no one can tell me that this wasn't a band at their musical peak, and very aware of it.
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Wishful thinking I guess. Of course it was a show , and all the smiles and body language was done to keep up the impression of a real band. But I guess Chris has stated more than once that there was practically no Interaction between him and Mark and if there were vibes, than bad ones. I guess 60.000 people cheering at him made it easier for Mark to mime a happy man.
LE
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I guess 60.000 people cheering at him made it easier for Mark to mime a happy man.
LE
Interestingly, when I recall this time (I "discovered" Dire Straits during this period; I was too little to know them before On Every Street), I never thought of Mark as a "happy man". I saw him as being extremely cool. Cool in the literal sense, not as in fashionable, but as in nonchalant, above it all. It seems that you don't have to be happy to put on a great show. In a strange way, maybe even the opposite can be true. A lot of Dire Strait's music wasn't happy, anyway, it often was about subdued anger, disappointment and sadness. A lot of it was full of irony. Maybe a totally happy man isn't in the best position to express that.
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about amps, I remember reading that they were "hidden" behind the stage, and when Mark wanted to make feedback (e.g. at the end of Calling Elvis) he made it with the "returns" cabinets in front of him.
I don't know if "returns" is the right word, but it's how we call it in French, and I guess you get the idea
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Wishful thinking I guess. Of course it was a show , and all the smiles and body language was done to keep up the impression of a real band.
I don't think it was that bad.
I smiled at Danny, PaulF and Chris White a lot. Obviously when you are on the road for months at a time, playing in front of large audiences, you just get on with it and don't dwell on the 'bad vibes'.
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about amps, I remember reading that they were "hidden" behind the stage, and when Mark wanted to make feedback (e.g. at the end of Calling Elvis) he made it with the "returns" cabinets in front of him.
I don't know if "returns" is the right word, but it's how we call it in French, and I guess you get the idea
[/quote
"Stage monitors" is I think the expression you are looking for :wave
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Chris, I was in Basel in 1992, front row, and couldn't believe how good the band was. That includes Mark (I mean, listen to You and Your Friend, one of your favourites -- was he EVER better than that?), and it includes you. I loved the drum solos in Calling Elvis and at the end of Money for Nothing, and I refuse to believe that Mark didn't, also. Why would he have turned to you and Danny every night, watching you like we, the fans, did? There would have been no need (and no okay) for that if he didn't think it was a good idea. He may have gone through a difficult time personally, and that may have affected the chemistry (or lack thereof) backstage, but no one can tell me that this wasn't a band at their musical peak, and very aware of it.
basel was 2 nights no? or am i mixing up with the Floyd 2 yrs later. anyways, were you aware of the filming?
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I thought Basel was 1 show.It was large, open air.
Yes, we all knew it was being filmed well in advance.
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about amps, I remember reading that they were "hidden" behind the stage, and when Mark wanted to make feedback (e.g. at the end of Calling Elvis) he made it with the "returns" cabinets in front of him.
I don't know if "returns" is the right word, but it's how we call it in French, and I guess you get the idea
[/quote
"Stage monitors" is I think the expression you are looking for :wave
thank you :) :wave
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I thought Basel was 1 show.It was large, open air.
Yes, we all knew it was being filmed well in advance.
Basel 1992 was definitely 2 shows. I myself was at St Jakobsstadion on the first day, where Think I love you too much and Tunnel of love were played, among others. The next day, the concert was broadcast on Swiss television and short scenes from the previous day's concert were shown during the intro. Sooo long ago but still unforgettable.
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I forgot that it was also on June 27th in the same place. But on June 28th it was broadcast from start to finish to many countries in Europe.
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I thought Basel was 1 show.It was large, open air.
Yes, we all knew it was being filmed well in advance.
Basel 1992 was definitely 2 shows. I myself was at St Jakobsstadion on the first day, where Think I love you too much and Tunnel of love were played, among others. The next day, the concert was broadcast on Swiss television and short scenes from the previous day's concert were shown during the intro. Sooo long ago but still unforgettable.
Is it purely coincidence that (until the box set at least) there wasn't a soundboard version of Tunnel of Love from the OES tour? I know Telegraph Road was played more - maybe in two thirds of the concerts - but it just seems like MK deliberately avoided playing it whenever they knew a concert was being recorded for broadcast.
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Maybe he didn't want to play it at the shows, sure.
But it didn't come in and out on a show by show basis.
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By the time we were playing outdoor shows, we had cameras on stage anyway, for the giant screens.
I'm guessing the second show was broadcast so the tv company could witness the previous night's show and make notes.
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Maybe he didn't want to play it at the shows, sure.
But it didn't come in and out on a show by show basis.
I always thought that the band had a setlist stablished for broadcast, like a save set or something, as all the TV and/or radio broadcasts always had the same songs, always TR and always Your Latest Trick.
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No.
Out of hundreds of shows hardly any were filmed.
The set list changed from leg to leg. There being six legs on the tour, and each leg being proceeded by a couple of days rehearsal or a long soundcheck usually.
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I thought Basel was 1 show.It was large, open air.
Yes, we all knew it was being filmed well in advance.
Basel 1992 was definitely 2 shows. I myself was at St Jakobsstadion on the first day, where Think I love you too much and Tunnel of love were played, among others. The next day, the concert was broadcast on Swiss television and short scenes from the previous day's concert were shown during the intro. Sooo long ago but still unforgettable.
never knew broadcast quality clips were shown on swiss television from the first day! wonder if that is still floating around somewhere? (will be the usual first three songs but still...)
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so here i am, trying to pm you on insta, only to be greeted with "this person only allows pm's if you follow him/her" (from memory, so not the exact wording) only to see below it "following"
what gives mr. W?
all i want is that darn book...
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A lot of people I don't know are PM'ing me on Instagram.
You can also message me here.
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I keep posting the contact email, also on Instagram:
thataintworkin@icloud.com
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A lot of people I don't know are PM'ing me on Instagram.
You can also message me here.
you accusing me of lying? lol.
but for real, i got that message.
oh whatever. need that book...
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you accusing me of lying? lol.
Not at all.
Maybe they are people I don't know but 'follow' me.
The trouble with Instagram is that often when they update IG it resets your preferences.
The most annoying setting is the one that disallows you from using someone's screen name in a reply.
When you reply, their screen name automatically starts the text. Many times I've written a lengthy reply only to have it disappear when I hit 'post', because the person's screen name appeared at the beginning of the reply.
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I thought Basel was 1 show.It was large, open air.
Yes, we all knew it was being filmed well in advance.
Basel 1992 was definitely 2 shows. I myself was at St Jakobsstadion on the first day, where Think I love you too much and Tunnel of love were played, among others. The next day, the concert was broadcast on Swiss television and short scenes from the previous day's concert were shown during the intro. Sooo long ago but still unforgettable.
never knew broadcast quality clips were shown on swiss television from the first day! wonder if that is still floating around somewhere? (will be the usual first three songs but still...)
This would make sense because if I remember correctly even on the C4 broadcast in the UK there are shots of the band on the intro wearing different clothes playing at what looks like the same venue
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Chris, I was in Basel in 1992, front row, and couldn't believe how good the band was. That includes Mark (I mean, listen to You and Your Friend, one of your favourites -- was he EVER better than that?), and it includes you. I loved the drum solos in Calling Elvis and at the end of Money for Nothing, and I refuse to believe that Mark didn't, also. Why would he have turned to you and Danny every night, watching you like we, the fans, did? There would have been no need (and no okay) for that if he didn't think it was a good idea. He may have gone through a difficult time personally, and that may have affected the chemistry (or lack thereof) backstage, but no one can tell me that this wasn't a band at their musical peak, and very aware of it.
basel was 2 nights no? or am i mixing up with the Floyd 2 yrs later. anyways, were you aware of the filming?
Two shows, yes. I was at the second -- but not aware of it being filmed. Too busy watching an amazing band playing amazing songs, I guess.
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never knew broadcast quality clips were shown on swiss television from the first day! wonder if that is still floating around somewhere? (will be the usual first three songs but still...)
[/quote]
With a Swiss VPN you can watch the beginning of the first Night here: https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/tagesschau/video/rock-konzert-dire-straits?urn=urn:srf:video:f128fef6-5df4-4872-8cf2-9191c36d029f
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I was hoping some books would have arrived by now and someone would post a mini review.
Anyway, I've uploaded some more images to buy prints on to my Darkroom page:
https://chriswhittenmusic.darkroom.com/collections/that-ain-t-workin
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I got the book and althought I didn't have time to sit and enjoy it in a relaxed way, I gave it a quick look and the pictures are great, many from Spain that for me is so nice, I read the Ed intro and gave a look to all pages one by one, I hope to have some free time this afternoon and read it properly, as every leg in the book has a introduction text that I want to read with attention.
Very good work Chris, congratulations.
All your originals are black and white? do you have any in colour?
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Jules....thanks.
I took one roll of colour on the whole tour. I think it was the soundcheck at Nimes (for On The Night). There was no great shot, I also had better shots on a B&W roll I took at the same soundcheck. So as colour complicated the book printing I decided to stick to the B&W only.
There is no amazing image you are missing, just similar images to the ones I included in B&W.
I probably had about 300 shots, of which I chose 80 to best tell the story. Some lovely shots of buskers in New Zealand and people playing outdoor chess in Stockholm, but I had to choose and those images seemed to have little to do with Dire Straits.
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Jules....thanks.
I took one roll of colour on the whole tour. I think it was the soundcheck at Nimes (for On The Night). There was no great shot, I also had better shots on a B&W roll I took at the same soundcheck. So as colour complicated the book printing I decided to stick to the B&W only.
There is no amazing image you are missing, just similar images to the ones I included in B&W.
I probably had about 300 shots, of which I chose 80 to best tell the story. Some lovely shots of buskers in New Zealand and people playing outdoor chess in Stockholm, but I had to choose and those images seemed to have little to do with Dire Straits.
Maybe if you have any colour one that is worth, you can sell them digitally, also with the rest of the B/W ones not in the book.
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My copy still seems to be stuck at customs 😅
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Hi
I'm a new poster on here (go easy on me).
Just to say I received my copy of the book yesterday. It really is fabulous - a real memento for someone like me who was fortunate enough to see the band twice on the OES tour (in my mid teens!)
Chris W has done a great job - it was great to communicate direct with him during the order process too. We're lucky to have him on here, as well as having this nugget from him (thanks Chris!)
Over and out!
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C'mon ChrisW, you could have been a little bit more creative :lol :lol
Just kiddin' , welcome Chris S, thanks for posting.
LE
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never knew broadcast quality clips were shown on swiss television from the first day! wonder if that is still floating around somewhere? (will be the usual first three songs but still...)
With a Swiss VPN you can watch the beginning of the first Night here: https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/tagesschau/video/rock-konzert-dire-straits?urn=urn:srf:video:f128fef6-5df4-4872-8cf2-9191c36d029f
[/quote]
I've tried to watch this unreleased clip from the first night in Basel 92 with a VPN, but I couldn't. I've tried everything. Could someone capture this video and make it available?
https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/tagesschau/video/rock-konzert-dire-straits?urn=urn:srf:video:f128fef6-5df4-4872-8cf2-9191c36d029f
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Maybe if you have any colour one that is worth, you can sell them digitally, also with the rest of the B/W ones not in the book.
The colour pics are pretty much the same as the B&W in the book. Mark and John sound checking at Nimes.
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Over and out!
Thanks Chris. Much appreciated.
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never knew broadcast quality clips were shown on swiss television from the first day! wonder if that is still floating around somewhere? (will be the usual first three songs but still...)
With a Swiss VPN you can watch the beginning of the first Night here: https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/tagesschau/video/rock-konzert-dire-straits?urn=urn:srf:video:f128fef6-5df4-4872-8cf2-9191c36d029f
I've tried to watch this unreleased clip from the first night in Basel 92 with a VPN, but I couldn't. I've tried everything. Could someone capture this video and make it available?
https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/tagesschau/video/rock-konzert-dire-straits?urn=urn:srf:video:f128fef6-5df4-4872-8cf2-9191c36d029f
[/quote]
Sorry I am not able to capture the clip, but I made some screenshots. Maybe try hide.me VPN …
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This could really be a separate thread.
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I have the video, gime me some minutes to upload here :lol
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Here is the video!
https://youtu.be/TvlgHwdappw (https://youtu.be/TvlgHwdappw)