A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Jimbo on May 22, 2025, 06:49:48 PM
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In my opinion..
- Love over gold, perfectly executed on Alchemy but, essentially, because is incomplete, the final, decisive part, is missing,
- Why Worry in SA, incomplete, the ending is missing, which in BIA distinguishes it for both drum&bass and guitar.
- Tunnel of love, I leave aside the BBC version recorded that sucks, TOL by Alchemy is clearly worse than the original,
- also TR in Alchemy, .. both not for an problem of execution but of recording,
- Expresso love in Alchemy,
- Industrial Disease in Alchemy is recorded as a bootleg, it is not close to the original,
- SR... I like all the versions of Solid rock less than the original.
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Not 'worse' but I don't think the perfection of Sultans Of Swing (studio) was ever achieved live.
For some reason Pick often plays a very square almost disco beat, whereas the studio version is more flowing.
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For TOL, I'm torn...
83/85/91/92 versions are fantasticlly enhanced.
Yet the studio version, straight to the point, with clean guitar sound and Pick's subtle drumming... somehow beats them. Sometimes less is more...
The same can be said of Sultans. It is so developped in fantastic live versions... Yet the studio version was never reproduced live in the same subtle way!
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Not 'worse' but I don't think the perfection of Sultans Of Swing (studio) was ever achieved live.
For some reason Pick often plays a very square almost disco beat, whereas the studio version is more flowing.
I agree Chris, the performance of SOS in studio is unbeatable.
Despite this, the live versions are legendary also because Mark invented a diluted version by doubling the duration and making it more rock.
The Alchemy version is very fast but not well recorded with the drums too dominant that obscures bass, rhythm and keyboards.
I thought it was a TW problem but in SA Williams sounds very good. It's the mix the problem.
In OtN and SA there is more balance. And bass, rhythm and keyboards sound good.
Simply SOS and SOS live are two different songs.
Same goes for TOL that with 15 or 20 minutes is another song (5 intro + 5 interlude...).
The cleanliness of TOF in the studio is not approachable but the live versions are excellent (less so in Alchemy for the same problem).
Same problem for Telegraph Road where in the second part of Alchemy the bass, rhythm and keyboards are obscured. Much better the OtN version.
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For TOL, I'm torn...
83/85/91/92 versions are fantasticlly enhanced.
Yet the studio version, straight to the point, with clean guitar sound and Pick's subtle drumming... somehow beats them. Sometimes less is more...
The same can be said of Sultans. It is so developped in fantastic live versions... Yet the studio version was never reproduced live in the same subtle way!
I agree with on your reasoning, I already answered Chris.
In my opinion, basically the studio versions TOL, SOS and TR are masterpieces that cannot be reached for completeness, balance and sound quality.
The live versions can be approached and can eventually become masterpieces but other songs for the length, for the variations, the speed.
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For studio version of Sultans I've always preferred the single cut where they wanted a rougher sounding version. Sounds much better to me.
I suppose it's not about better or worse, more different. Changing things musically for the live crowd. Eg I hardly listen to the studio TOL, but it can hardly be compared to the epic 20 min versions from the BIA tour.
WII and Darling Pretty have always sounded better on the albums and were not changed that much live though.
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Not a Dire Straits song, but the studio version of Marbletown is way better than the live version.
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Not 'worse' but I don't think the perfection of Sultans Of Swing (studio) was ever achieved live.
For some reason Pick often plays a very square almost disco beat, whereas the studio version is more flowing.
It's always amused me that EVERYONE went disco in the late 70s. Pink Floyd had one number one single and it was disco, the Stones with Miss You etc. Even in the world of country people were going disco, Don Williams Tulsa Time for example.
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I'm going to be controversial...
I actually think the live at the bbc recordings around 1980 (Rockpop / Tunnel Of Love) sounded lame. Hal Lindes is a very very accomplished guitarist, superb in fact but his rhythm work is barely audible. Such a shame as the energy just isn't there. Pick's snare sound is weaker than the studio... I think that's why in a way I preferred William's feel during alchemy to some of the older songs, although I do get/understand that for Pick actually the loudness was becoming an issue for him.
A stand out live performance for me actually was Knopfler around 1985/86 on Letterman. He didn't even play a BIA track opting for Expresso Love, I think because Sid McGinnis was in the Letterman house band and he of course contributed much of the guitarwork on Making Movies. That version was outstanding.
I actually think you can't really beat songs like Telegraph Road studio version because of the production values. Again the rhythm guitar work, the sort of thunder imitating sounds were never replicated, the guitar sound too from Knopfler on the solo seemed always far cleaner live compared to the studio version.
MFN worked well for me live and Chris's version of Solid Rock I always thought was outstanding... especially towards the end. Calling Elvis live was better than the studio. Yet an older track that used to be played live "Once Upon A time In The West" to me sounded better in the studio. Mark's phrasing vocally also could sometimes effect the song in a negative way, but i'm being picky. You could also argue if the slide guitar on the last tour added anything? Nice to give individuals roles, even Mel Collins and in the latter years Chris White on Saxaphone - both superb players but i'm not sure they fitted some of those tracks live.
The other thing is we can say that Pick's drumming suites SOS, even Chris agrees with that but what do you do with the other 5 players in the band if we are talking live post 1982? That's the thing when you bring keyboards in, they can really really open up doors to some of the moodier tracks but do they improve the pure rock or simple folk tracks?
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Not 'worse' but I don't think the perfection of Sultans Of Swing (studio) was ever achieved live.
For some reason Pick often plays a very square almost disco beat, whereas the studio version is more flowing.
It's always amused me that EVERYONE went disco in the late 70s. Pink Floyd had one number one single and it was disco, the Stones with Miss You etc. Even in the world of country people were going disco, Don Williams Tulsa Time for example.
Regarding Pink Floyd's case to disco it was done under the producer insistance, Bob Ezrin
David Gilmour told about that experience that he went to disco club and litterally hated that kind of stuff.
The guitar line ended sounding so much like of Nile Roger, he was the king during those years.
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One more recent example that pops up: Skydiver. I liked the way it was linked to LAJADAS but the performance was way below MK’s standards (for me at least). The vocals didn’t quite reach it and it was a surprise to me he didn’t drop this song during the tour.
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Not 'worse' but I don't think the perfection of Sultans Of Swing (studio) was ever achieved live.
For some reason Pick often plays a very square almost disco beat, whereas the studio version is more flowing.
It's always amused me that EVERYONE went disco in the late 70s. Pink Floyd had one number one single and it was disco, the Stones with Miss You etc. Even in the world of country people were going disco, Don Williams Tulsa Time for example.
Regarding Pink Floyd's case to disco it was done under the producer insistance, Bob Ezrin
David Gilmour told about that experience that he went to disco club and litterally hated that kind of stuff.
The guitar line ended sounding so much like of Nile Roger, he was the king during those years.
I have never understood that disco thing, when I listen to Another Brick In The Wall (Part2) Disco is the last thing I am think of.
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In my opinion..
- Love over gold, perfectly executed on Alchemy but, essentially, because is incomplete, the final, decisive part, is missing,
- Why Worry in SA, incomplete, the ending is missing, which in BIA distinguishes it for both drum&bass and guitar.
- Tunnel of love, I leave aside the BBC version recorded that sucks, TOL by Alchemy is clearly worse than the original,
- also TR in Alchemy, .. both not for an problem of execution but of recording,
- Expresso love in Alchemy,
- Industrial Disease in Alchemy is recorded as a bootleg, it is not close to the original,
- SR... I like all the versions of Solid rock less than the original.
Good question, but... I would answer to the opposite question: which songs performed live are better than performed in the studio?
I would say those that change more... like:
Once upon a time in the west - the Alchemy version is fantastic...
Tunnel of love, for the intro that is so magic, again in Alchemy and the '85 version as well...
The pathos added in Sultans with piano and sax, the '85 versions and Mandela...
Just unbeatable..
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Not 'worse' but I don't think the perfection of Sultans Of Swing (studio) was ever achieved live.
For some reason Pick often plays a very square almost disco beat, whereas the studio version is more flowing.
It's always amused me that EVERYONE went disco in the late 70s. Pink Floyd had one number one single and it was disco, the Stones with Miss You etc. Even in the world of country people were going disco, Don Williams Tulsa Time for example.
Regarding Pink Floyd's case to disco it was done under the producer insistance, Bob Ezrin
David Gilmour told about that experience that he went to disco club and litterally hated that kind of stuff.
The guitar line ended sounding so much like of Nile Roger, he was the king during those years.
I have never understood that disco thing, when I listen to Another Brick In The Wall (Part2) Disco is the last thing I am think of.
Four on the floor my good man.
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I get that, but, when I listen to it, I don't think this is Disco, maybe it's just me :hmm
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It's clearly disco.
Here's the Grateful Dead going disco, ha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85nPny-2B3k