A Mark In Time

Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: MK_live on June 07, 2025, 02:18:56 PM

Title: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: MK_live on June 07, 2025, 02:18:56 PM
In the DSIS newsletter from August 1988, Liz Whatley wrote:

"Apart from anything else, Alan was in Hawaii on holiday, Terry has been in the USA touring with Paul Carrack (support to Belinda Carlisle), and John has been all over the place doing promotion for the “Glass” album. Mark himself has, in fact, played a couple of times in London since the June shows, once at the Brixton Academy with a group called The Bhundu Boys, and once at The Mean Fiddler with Brendan Crocker –both were very last-minute appearances."

The concert with The Bhundu Boys was on 18th July 1988 at Brixton Academy, London.
But for me it is still not clear when Mark and Brendan performed at The Mean Fiddler.

Does anyone know when this took place, maybe have a concert ticket of article about this gig?
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: dustyvalentino on June 07, 2025, 04:09:21 PM
http://www.brendancroker.com/BCA/19890206%20BC%20FolkRoots%20No54%201986.png
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: MK_live on June 07, 2025, 05:36:43 PM
Thanks very much, but it seems that article is about the gig at The Mean fiddler on 2nd June 1989.
According to the DSIS letter, there must also have been a gig there with Brendan and Mark in 1988, most likely in June/July 1988.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: Beryl on June 07, 2025, 09:18:27 PM
Thanks for the info. The big news for me is MK sharing the stage with John Hiatt, who in my books is a favorite, one of the great songwriters in America and such a wonderful musical fugitive.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: dustyvalentino on June 09, 2025, 10:15:17 AM
Thanks for the info. The big news for me is MK sharing the stage with John Hiatt, who in my books is a favorite, one of the great songwriters in America and such a wonderful musical fugitive.

Yes, shame no bootleg is doing the rounds!
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: Pottel on June 10, 2025, 03:50:47 PM
Thanks for the info. The big news for me is MK sharing the stage with John Hiatt, who in my books is a favorite, one of the great songwriters in America and such a wonderful musical fugitive.
one of my holy grails. been trying to reach out on dime to hiatt fans, but no one seems to know a rec. exists.
i remember it was not planned but very much a spontanous thing
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: erjan on June 11, 2025, 08:23:21 PM
It must be the concert on the second of October 1987. The overview on http://www.brendancroker.com/BCA/Gig%20dates.html shows that after that show he joined John Hiatt as a support act for some shows in the Netherlands.
The news article is linked to the 1989 performance, but the link indicates it was from issue #54 of folkroot magazine. This link shows that that issue is from December 1987:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/205510044069
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: erjan on June 11, 2025, 08:37:22 PM
This link
https://spacemen3.co.uk/gigs/19871022-2/
shows that is was probably the 10th of October 1987.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: erjan on June 11, 2025, 08:53:56 PM
https://www.oneverybootleg.nl/tourdates_1983_1990.htm shows that Mark performed on October 2nd 1987 at the mean fiddler. So it must be that.
The link in my previous post shows dates for the last three week of October 1987, but the first week is not included. So most evidence points towards October 2nd 1987.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: Pottel on June 16, 2025, 03:48:36 PM
This link
https://spacemen3.co.uk/gigs/19871022-2/
shows that is was probably the 10th of October 1987.

but it does not show John Hiatt playing there too?
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: erjan on June 16, 2025, 06:15:08 PM
This link
https://spacemen3.co.uk/gigs/19871022-2/
shows that is was probably the 10th of October 1987.

but it does not show John Hiatt playing there too?

yes, that is why it was probably the 2nd of October, the poster for that week is unfortunately not on the site from spacemen3
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: MK_live on June 17, 2025, 10:28:41 PM
Incorrect unfortunately.
Liz Whatley wrote MK joined Brendan after the June 1988 shows. So, it must be some date in 1988, not 1987.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: Jules on June 19, 2025, 01:30:03 PM
Incorrect unfortunately.
Liz Whatley wrote MK joined Brendan after the June 1988 shows. So, it must be some date in 1988, not 1987.

Maybe both... I know MK played gigs with Brendan and Steve in 1987 too...
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: erjan on June 22, 2025, 07:20:03 PM
Incorrect unfortunately.
Liz Whatley wrote MK joined Brendan after the June 1988 shows. So, it must be some date in 1988, not 1987.
If I'm correct this links shows that Brendan Croker and Steve Phillips played at the mean fiddler on Saturday September 17th 1988, so perhaps that could have been the day in 1988.
https://images.sk-static.com/images/media/img/col3/20210513-205336-786177.jpg
I'm pretty sure the news article is about the performance on Octobre 2nd 1987, but it seems that is not what Liz Whatley was referring to.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: erjan on June 22, 2025, 07:26:20 PM
Incorrect unfortunately.
Liz Whatley wrote MK joined Brendan after the June 1988 shows. So, it must be some date in 1988, not 1987.
If I'm correct this links shows that Brendan Croker and Steve Phillips played at the mean fiddler on Saturday September 17th 1988, so perhaps that could have been the day in 1988.
https://images.sk-static.com/images/media/img/col3/20210513-205336-786177.jpg
I'm pretty sure the news article is about the performance on Octobre 2nd 1987, but it seems that is not what Liz Whatley was referring to.
I see now that the news article from Liz was from August 1988, so this date in September also cannot be it (apart from the fact that Steve Phillips would also most likely have been mentioned).
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: erjan on June 22, 2025, 08:17:21 PM
Incorrect unfortunately.
Liz Whatley wrote MK joined Brendan after the June 1988 shows. So, it must be some date in 1988, not 1987.
If I'm correct this links shows that Brendan Croker and Steve Phillips played at the mean fiddler on Saturday September 17th 1988, so perhaps that could have been the day in 1988.
https://images.sk-static.com/images/media/img/col3/20210513-205336-786177.jpg
I'm pretty sure the news article is about the performance on Octobre 2nd 1987, but it seems that is not what Liz Whatley was referring to.
I see now that the news article from Liz was from August 1988, so this date in September also cannot be it (apart from the fact that Steve Phillips would also most likely have been mentioned).
I see the Bhundu Boys played at the mean fiddler at the 22nd of June 1988, perhaps Mark saw them that evening?
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: erjan on June 22, 2025, 08:32:26 PM
Also, these sleeve notes contain an interesting note:
Mark Cresswell and Brendan Croker are members of Leeds' finest, "Brendan Croker & The Five O'Clok Shadows" and appears regularly at The Mean Fiddler
https://vinyleers.com/products/tanita-tikaram-ancient-heart-lp-album-rsa-1

I guess Brendan was a regular performer at the Mean Fiddler, so it is probably difficult to find evidence of the exact date he played there with Mark.
My guess now would be the 22nd of June, given that the Bundhu Boys played that night, however I've not found evidence that Brendan and/or Mark played that night.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: erjan on June 22, 2025, 08:50:47 PM
Damn, I see now in the comments on the youtube video that the Bhundu Boys performance itself was probably on the first of December 1987 and that it was broadcast on the 22nd of june 1988.
So there goes that theory  ;D
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: dustyvalentino on June 23, 2025, 09:48:15 AM
MK played at Brixton Academy with the Bhundu Boys on 18th July 1988:

https://www.rikwalton.com/p951305595#he3cffb04

One online article says it was organised as a "rival" event to the Wembley thing due to the lack of black artists at that.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: dmg on June 23, 2025, 06:24:52 PM
MK played at Brixton Academy with the Bhundu Boys on 18th July 1988:

https://www.rikwalton.com/p951305595#he3cffb04

One online article says it was organised as a "rival" event to the Wembley thing due to the lack of black artists at that.

Whitney Houston performed at the Mandela show.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: wayaman on June 23, 2025, 08:18:03 PM
MK played at Brixton Academy with the Bhundu Boys on 18th July 1988:

https://www.rikwalton.com/p951305595#he3cffb04

One online article says it was organised as a "rival" event to the Wembley thing due to the lack of black artists at that.

Whitney Houston performed at the Mandela show.

And Tracy Chapman.

And I think Stevie Wonder when his HD was recovered from the thief.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: dustyvalentino on June 24, 2025, 12:41:19 AM
I dunno, might not be true or maybe thought too few black artists played.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: dmg on June 24, 2025, 03:38:24 PM
I dunno, might not be true or maybe thought too few black artists played.

It was a controversial show at the time remember; perhaps getting major acts to perform was difficult. :-\
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: dustyvalentino on June 25, 2025, 09:54:23 AM
I dunno, might not be true or maybe thought too few black artists played.

It was a controversial show at the time remember; perhaps getting major acts to perform was difficult. :-\

Can't say I do remember, was only 10 years old! What was controversial about it?
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: dmg on June 25, 2025, 03:03:36 PM
I dunno, might not be true or maybe thought too few black artists played.

It was a controversial show at the time remember; perhaps getting major acts to perform was difficult. :-\

Can't say I do remember, was only 10 years old! What was controversial about it?

Mandela was in prison and was viewed by most as a terrorist (he admitted to sabotage).  Amnesty International, who received donations from the show, didn't back him at the time.  The show changed public attitudes about him since their idols were performing in his name and perhaps learned more about SA as a result.
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: dustyvalentino on June 25, 2025, 04:25:48 PM
Mmm, not sure how you can quantify "most" people taking that view. I think that would depend on your political viewpoints. Mrs Thatcher would have been of that mindset.

This article from 1986 shows that even 56% of white South Africans felt he should have been released by that point.

https://www.nytimes.com/1986/08/03/world/poll-in-south-africa-shows-a-rise-in-whites-distaste-for-apartheid.html
Title: Re: Mark Knopfler & Brendan Croker at The Mean Fiddler 1988
Post by: dmg on June 25, 2025, 10:59:37 PM
Mmm, not sure how you can quantify "most" people taking that view. I think that would depend on your political viewpoints. Mrs Thatcher would have been of that mindset.

This article from 1986 shows that even 56% of white South Africans felt he should have been released by that point.

https://www.nytimes.com/1986/08/03/world/poll-in-south-africa-shows-a-rise-in-whites-distaste-for-apartheid.html

I'm just going by an article I read a few years ago.  Didn't save it but it claimed it (the show) changed public opinion.