A Mark In Time
Previous Tours => 2011 Mark Knopfler & Bob Dylan Tour => Topic started by: jbaent on September 26, 2011, 10:46:39 PM
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Just read in the "The way I see it" Isaac
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A good piece of news for me, as I really like his writting style.
I prefer my own.
Sorry, no offence intended of course, but as a journalist, I couldn't resist ;D
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Just read in the "The way I see it" Isaac
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Only ten shows ? That's an amateur job Isaac ! ;)
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Looking forward to it. Great writing style. Cool that he does it once more. 10 shows are appropiate, it is just a Dylan tour after all.
LE
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It was pretty amazing what he did, following the entire tour. But slightly bordering on "knock knock anybody in there". Plus it must have been pretty weird for the band to see the same guy in the audience every single night! Hehe.
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Mark just ignored him after all I read in Guy's diary. Pretty harsh from him I think. It would have been a nice gesture from him to shake his hand at least at the end of the last show or something. Nobody in any audience would have felt disadvantaged for sure. All those gifts from the band/management were great and friendly but had the taste of reparation somehow.
LE
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I actually understand Mark in this situation. I for one would have been freaked out. Plus when they use the term "get a lifer", even jokingly, it still says a bit about what they think about fans like that.
EDIT:
Sorry, that came out bit wrong. I didn't mean to say that Isaac IS a "fan like that". But when Mark sees the same person in the audience for the whole tour, I'm sure the Rudiger alarm goes off.
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Yeah, Isaac would probably have problems to call himself a "fan". He put it in words very exactly explaining what was his motivation, the term "Isaac(ing)" has been created here at this forum but doesn't nail it when it comes to comparison with some kind of "Rudiger"-effect. Isaac had just the idea of combining travelling, writing and listening to the greatest band in the world (not only in his opinion) live. He has no bootleg, is not active in any forums and would probably never try to get an autograph from Mark and the band. He himself finds the idea disgusting having been talked to from Mark only because of what he was doing.
Well, I do not have to defend him, but I for my part had good fun and very much great information from his last blog. I was happy he did it. I met him twice during the GL tour and cannot say anything that would describe him as some sort of "strange Rudiger kind of guy". No chance to meet him again on this tour as his trip will end in Rotterdam as far as known today, but maybe he will do some more shows - depending on the quality of the gigs. Will be a good addition to the hopefully lots of concert reviews popping up at AMIT, same as in 2010.
LE
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Issac was living the dream.How many of us would loved to have done what he did.He did it for himself not to please the band in any way.I think the way Mark sets up the tour he doesn't really expect people to go to more than one or two shows and makes little effort to mix up the set list which means really you don't need to go to that many shows.Of course the outro's are a little different each time but thats not really enough.I have been mugging up on BD so that i have a vauge idea of whats going on in the second half of the evening and its interesting how he dips all other his catalogue and most shows have an element of uniqueness to it although you could argue his songs are a lot less complicated to play than MK's.
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I actually understand Mark in this situation. I for one would have been freaked out. Plus when they use the term "get a lifer", even jokingly, it still says a bit about what they think about fans like that.
EDIT:
Sorry, that came out bit wrong. I didn't mean to say that Isaac IS a "fan like that". But when Mark sees the same person in the audience for the whole tour, I'm sure the Rudiger alarm goes off.
Totally agree, Isaac seems to be a "normal" guy, even if what he did is weird, but acknowledging him would only encourage weirdos....
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Issac was living the dream.How many of us would loved to have done what he did.
I like Isaac a lot so this isn't meant as a criticism, but I wouldn't. I would enjoy travelling, seeing new places and meeting new people.
But frankly even as a big MK fan, there is no way I could sit through what is basically the same show, night after night.
Also, and this is the main thing, I have people who would miss me if I was away for that length of time. And I would miss them. :)
So no, not my dream, but good luck to Isaac, I look forward to meeting him again in Glasgow.
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Quote: "Issac was living the dream.How many of us would loved to have done what he did. "
I asked myself that question also a few times and I think that I wouldn't be able to do what Isaac did. Even not when I would have time enough and money to pay the transport, hotels and tickets! ;) With traveling I am always afraid that I will be too late at the airport or trainstation, so I think it would be too stressful for me and I don't have the energy to run from one city to the other. Although having said this, I would LOVE to meet so many fans as Isaac does! ;D
I am glad that Isaac does the traveling for us and keeps us informed about what is going on with him and of course with Mark and the band. I loved reading his experience during the tour and especial when he visited Amsterdam last year! He made me laugh out loud talking about entering the Heineken Music Hall the first evening and his story about "Hagelslag"! ;D It was nice to meet him twice and I am sure looking forward to read his blog again! ;D
Fieneke
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I'm surprised how many of you call his writing style "great". It is certainly very appealing for fans to read (which is a good thing) but I wouldn't call it "great". No offense intended (again), but if your profession required reading LOTS of articles everyday and writing them, you would certainly have a different understanding of "great" writing. Isaac once explained to me how he did not want to follow any rules and keep the roughness in the writing, which I understand; still, from a journalist's point of view, I wouldn't have published the diary that way. You HAVE to stick to certain rules if you publish something - the art is how to learn to use them so that your style still stays unique. Which is something Isaac didn't want to do or couldn't do. Hence his blog is great fan entertainment, but not great writing. Just MHO of course.
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Well, thats a technicism (from a journalist) that I totally understand and respect. But as a reader, I enjoy a lot that direct style, so for me is great ;D
And, I also LOVE your writting style ;)
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Well, thats a technicism (from a journalist) that I totally understand and respect. But as a reader, I enjoy a lot that direct style, so for me is great ;D
D'accord :)
And, I also LOVE your writting style ;)
Did you read a couple of my articles I posted on FB? ;D
I intend to write a proper review of the Dylan/Knopfler concert in Mannheim btw (if my boss lets me). It's going to be tough! ;D
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Did you read a couple of my articles I posted on FB? ;D
I intend to write a proper review of the Dylan/Knopfler concert in Mannheim btw (if my boss lets me). It's going to be tough! ;D
As long as you protect your ears from Dylan
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You HAVE to stick to certain rules if you publish something - the art is how to learn to use them so that your style still stays unique.
Would you care to elaborate? Which rules are they? Are they common to all kinds of publishing, or do they vary with the format (electronic vs. printed media, blogg vs. news article vs. ...)?
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Isaac's writing style IS great, because it keeps me reading and reading, how long the paragraphs may ever be. He is funny and often has some very pointing pictures, comparisons/analogies, is able to keep the balance between fun and seriousness, between private thoughts/feelings and the "official" part, keeps the track when it comes to a general story throughout the complete blog and can write great dialogues, too. Yes, it IS great. He even has a vocabulary that is unmistakable... ;)
Could the development of this thread be the case of some "bashed" professional honour?? It is absolutely not indicated to compare the writing style of any
internet blog with any journalistic rules - blogging has no journalistic rules in it. It maybe should have, but look at several ones - there aren't any.
LE
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- blogging has no journalistic rules in it. It maybe should have, but look at several ones - there aren't any.
LE
I agree, it's not the same thing.
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Well, thats a technicism (from a journalist) that I totally understand and respect. But as a reader, I enjoy a lot that direct style, so for me is great ;D
D'accord :)
And, I also LOVE your writting style ;)
Did you read a couple of my articles I posted on FB? ;D
I intend to write a proper review of the Dylan/Knopfler concert in Mannheim btw (if my boss lets me). It's going to be tough! ;D
Oh dear...last time BD played in Mannheim my husband fell asleep. No joke!
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Oh dear...last time BD played in Mannheim my husband fell asleep. No joke!
[/quote]
Maybe Bob and Mark can play Hobo's Lullaby together. I can just imagine Bob getting his vocal chords around that one to great effect! One of my favourite Billies ones actually.
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Isaac's writing style IS great, because it keeps me reading and reading, how long the paragraphs may ever be. He is funny and often has some very pointing pictures, comparisons/analogies, is able to keep the balance between fun and seriousness, between private thoughts/feelings and the "official" part, keeps the track when it comes to a general story throughout the complete blog and can write great dialogues, too. Yes, it IS great. He even has a vocabulary that is unmistakable... ;)
Umm, so it's great because you say so? How can that be an objective measurement? You can find pointing pictures, jokes and nice dialogues in other texts too, are they all great?
Could the development of this thread be the case of some "bashed" professional honour?? It is absolutely not indicated to compare the writing style of any internet blog with any journalistic rules - blogging has no journalistic rules in it. It maybe should have, but look at several ones - there aren't any.
Bashed professional honour? How can you assume that if you, in the very same sentence, say that blogging has no journalistic rules? That is the whole point! It should have. You are right, every John Doe can publish his own blog today and write about cereals or toilet paper, which, as a journalist, I think is already bad enough. There has been a debate going on about quality journalism. It will vanish some day because everybody thinks he can write, and readers think it's great. I write, hence I am? No.
To me, there has to be a certain amount of journalistic quality in any published text (and mind you, he published his blog as a book), and I'm sorry to say that, but Isaac's blog is a nice and entertaining diary, nothing more. Sometimes it cannot hurt to put down your pink fan goggles and look at things in an objective way. As entertaining as the entries might be, they are also narcissistic, often insulting (always complaining about people who can't speak English properly etc etc.) and self-centered. Endless blurps about sandwiches, train rides, hints to his mysterious past to keep the reader's attention because he feels important enough. It would be difficult to publish in any newspaper. The only form I can think of would be a tongue-in-cheek commentary, but a travel report (which it is, somehow)? No way. You have to stay neutral (!) and objective (!), eloquent, descriptive, interesting. That's part of the art (which I certainly don't claim to master) of great writing.
I'm sorry, but that's the way I see it (pun intended).
It's okay if you like it, and I don't want to "bash" - just trying to put things into perspective here.
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Well, thats a technicism (from a journalist) that I totally understand and respect. But as a reader, I enjoy a lot that direct style, so for me is great ;D
D'accord :)
And, I also LOVE your writting style ;)
Did you read a couple of my articles I posted on FB? ;D
I intend to write a proper review of the Dylan/Knopfler concert in Mannheim btw (if my boss lets me). It's going to be tough! ;D
Oh dear...last time BD played in Mannheim my husband fell asleep. No joke!
Really? Hmm the only thing I fear is a bad headache but falling asleep... Haven't thought about that possibility! We have to poke each other to stay awake then! Where is your seat? ;D
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Isaac's blog is a nice and entertaining diary, nothing more
well, yes, who said it was more?
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Isaac's blog is a nice and entertaining diary, nothing more
well, yes, who said it was more?
It was the "great writing" comment that got me started. Sorry for that, but I had to. ;)
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Looking forward to read the first new entries of Isaac's new blog. I hope he will explain if he is (or ever was) into Bob Dylan's music.
LE
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Isaac's blog is a nice and entertaining diary, nothing more
well, yes, who said it was more?
It was the "great writing" comment that got me started. Sorry for that, but I had to. ;)
ok :). Great blogging is more appropriate :)
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I was thrilled to hear that Isaac was going to attend 10 concerts and, hopefully, write about them. For me, it's another source of information about the concerts, in addition to Guy's diary, Richard's notes and AMIT posts. I look so forward to reading all of these during a tour, especially because I'm not going to any of the concerts. Isaac does make obnoxious comments sometimes but it's his blog. I skip what I don't like or what doesn't interest me, and go straight to 'concert night'.
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I'm looking forward very much to Isaac's diary (also Guy's and Richard's) too. It's really interesting to read his impression of the concerts, especially those I am attending and see if we agree! ;) I hope I meet him again in Manchester.
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A nice friendly guy with a millionaires pocket & a bookies pen ie its not top notch but it does the job,which is all he wants anyway.I thought MK could have done something to acknowledge him on the GL tour though,even if he says that's not what he wanted,MK can be a bit cold that way but I suppose there's loads of mark Chapmans around :P
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Isaac's blog is a nice and entertaining diary, nothing more
well, yes, who said it was more?
It was the "great writing" comment that got me started. Sorry for that, but I had to. ;)
Yes it is great writing because he has some natural talent. Simple as that, even he does not follows the orthodox rules of how to write a good article.
This is only mho and I am not expert in good or bad writing. But i'd definitivley like to be able to write as Isaac do.
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Isaac's blog is a nice and entertaining diary, nothing more
well, yes, who said it was more?
It was the "great writing" comment that got me started. Sorry for that, but I had to. ;)
Yes it is great writing because he has some natural talent. Simple as that, even he does not follows the orthodox rules of how to write a good article.
This is only mho and I am not expert in good or bad writing. But i'd definitivley like to be able to write as Isaac do.
No. That's your pink MK fan glasses view talking. You have to find your own style if you want to write.
I understand your point of view but again, this is only your subjective opinion as an MK fan. And again, nowhere have I said the "rules" of writing a good article are orthodox. And we could argue about the definition of natural talent, too, but let's just leave it at that. If you're happy reading Isaac's blog, please continue to do so. But don't say his writing is great, or he is a role model for others. You aren't objective if you say that, because you said it yourself, you're not an expert in good or bad writing. You are an MK fan and judge things from an MK fan point of view. Which isn't necessarily bad, but not a measurement. Sometimes it helps putting down your fan glasses for a while. ;)
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No. That's your pink MK fan glasses view talking. You have to find your own style if you want to write.
I understand your point of view but again, this is only your subjective opinion as an MK fan. And again, nowhere have I said the "rules" of writing a good article are orthodox. And we could argue about the definition of natural talent, too, but let's just leave it at that. If you're happy reading Isaac's blog, please continue to do so. But don't say his writing is great, or he is a role model for others. You aren't objective if you say that, because you said it yourself, you're not an expert in good or bad writing. You are an MK fan and judge things from an MK fan point of view. Which isn't necessarily bad, but not a measurement. Sometimes it helps putting down your fan glasses for a while. ;)
I was really trying to keep out ot this thread and discussion furthermore because I am able to see where it would lead me but now I really must say your last post is quite arrogant. What exactly is it that you are after? Do you want to hear saying us that your writing style is better? I don't get it, sorry. I love Isaac's writing style because it IS great. Now comes Mrs. Goldenheart and says, sorry, you are wrong, it is not great, because I am a journalist and I know what is great and what's not. Lots of us, most of us are grown-up and are able to put down the fan glasses if necessary. If Isaac is able to catch us with his blog and making us return for the next entry, well, he can write.
I would never have brought up the term "journalistic" but "literary", because journalism is not automatically covering everthing that is written and published - even if most publishers and magazines today want to make us believe that. The basic roots of human communication is narration, from the earliest days at the fire. Blogging is just one of many other forms that used to be street ballads or epic in the past. Mark once talked about the "printer's ink" that you have to have in your vein, and for me that's it: There are so many young people out there trying or wanting to be a journalist because they think wow that could be a cool job and I won't have to get up too early in the morning, and there are others who WANT to write - I think Isaac is part of the second fraction. So could you please stop telling us what's wrong and what is right when it comes to I like or I like not. And how could ds1984 not be subjective, this is a fan forum, when I am not allowed to utter my subjective opinions I see no sense in it anymore. And reading your last lines implies you feel yourself as an expert in good or bad writing - or as an institution that detects "natural talent"?
Feel free to rebuke me for this post, Goldenheart, but maybe before you do so, read it twice and maybe there is one or two things in it that you could think of being true.
I know it's Sunday today but I had to say that.
LE
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LE - Thanks for that. You put it much more eloquently than I could ever have done!
There are many people on this forum, who go to work/college/university everyday, but I have no idea what each of you, apart from one or two, do for a living, neither do I particularly want to know. This is an MK fan forum and I feel we should leave our daily jobs/professions behind, as much as possible, when we are here. Nobody is more important than anyone else! :)
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I was really trying to keep out ot this thread and discussion furthermore because I am able to see where it would lead me but now I really must say your last post is quite arrogant. What exactly is it that you are after? Do you want to hear saying us that your writing style is better? I don't get it, sorry. I love Isaac's writing style because it IS great. Now comes Mrs. Goldenheart and says, sorry, you are wrong, it is not great, because I am a journalist and I know what is great and what's not. Lots of us, most of us are grown-up and are able to put down the fan glasses if necessary. If Isaac is able to catch us with his blog and making us return for the next entry, well, he can write.
What on earth is wrong with you, LE? Why do you call me arrogant, just because I tried to put things into consideration? Where did I say my writing style is "better"? I did not. I even said I don't claim to have a great writing style, it takes years of learning. And I'm not willing to take your insult just because my profession allows me to put things into a different perspective. Yes this is a fan forum but it must also be allowed to utter criticism. To be really honest, it worries me that MK fans become passionate followers of someone who just entered our fan circle one year ago, never participated in any discussions, never traded bootlegs, never made silly comments about Mark's hair or whatever. He decides to do something strange - follow MK for the entire tour, which is great, and he writes about it, which is fine - but then he publishes it in book form, signs them and send them out to his fans who admire his writing style, and he enjoys being famous. Sorry, but I do have a massive problem with that, and they way fans admire him in such a naive way. I said it it before - twice - it's fine if you like Isaac's blog but it is NOT a measurement for great writing just because YOU or others say so. Mind you, I know other fans who share my views about Isaac - they are just not on this forum anymore, for which I cannot blame them - and for the record, they are not journalists.
I would never have brought up the term "journalistic" but "literary", because journalism is not automatically covering everthing that is written and published - even if most publishers and magazines today want to make us believe that.
See, here lies the problem. As I've said before - maybe you should read my posts more carefully - This is just not true. Journalism is indeed a term that covers officially published written things. There are qualilty standards every mag and publisher has, which is a good thing. Because if there weren't, every idiot could come and say hey, I've written some great blog, I must publish it in book form or whatever, it's great writing. Do you want to read a newspaper everyday which contains nicely written stories, subjective and full of prejudices?
The basic roots of human communication is narration, from the earliest days at the fire. Blogging is just one of many other forms that used to be street ballads or epic in the past.
I don't argue with the first part, but the second part... Well, you can exaggerate everything, can you.
Mark once talked about the "printer's ink" that you have to have in your vein, and for me that's it: There are so many young people out there trying or wanting to be a journalist because they think wow that could be a cool job and I won't have to get up too early in the morning, and there are others who WANT to write - I think Isaac is part of the second fraction.
Sorry, but that's just plain ridiculous. You want to know how my working day looks like? I work up to ten hours every day, I have appointments in the evening and I often have to work at the weekend. Working twelve days in a row is not unusual. But I don't complain because I love my job. Isaac is just a self important jerk who blogs and entertains. Of couse he wants to write. But to compare it with the motivation of my colleagues is just inappropriate.
So could you please stop telling us what's wrong and what is right when it comes to I like or I like not. And how could ds1984 not be subjective, this is a fan forum, when I am not allowed to utter my subjective opinions I see no sense in it anymore. And reading your last lines implies you feel yourself as an expert in good or bad writing - or as an institution that detects "natural talent"?
Again, nowhere did I tell anyone what's right and what's wrong, or even that I am an institution? Again, why on earth would I claim to be that?? And again, being subjective is fine, but you also have to be open for criticism. Which I think you and quite a few others here don't seem to be, otherwise you wouldn't call me arrogant etc. You would have thought about what I wrote about Isaac, no matter if I'm a journalist or a garbage man or whatever. It's a pity this doesn't seem to be possible. For me, this discussion is over. Go on and read Isaac's blurps if you wish, I will ignore further praises of his "great writing", and naive fanboy comments.
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[ Go on and read Isaac's blurps if you wish, I will ignore further praises of his "great writing", and naive fanboy comments.
You see?
LE
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Can't you just agree to disagree, for Pete's sake? Goldenheart doesn't like Isaac's style, Love Expresso does. What's the big deal? This is not Palestine.
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Thanks. You are right. I am happy to close this unpleasant stuff for my part. Goldenheart already did, so everything is fine. Wish I would be able to put it in such a short and incisive form as you did. ;)
Btw., the conclusion of your post could mean that Goldenheart doesn't like Love Expresso (anymore). :disbelief ::)
LE
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Well yes, let's leave it at that. I think we have made our points clear.
No personal animosities were intended from my side; so it was just a healthy disagreement - as I said, I just felt the need to put things into perspective here.
Let's listen to some Dylan now, shall we, LE? ;D
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Oh boy! I feel like playing Ren and Stimpy's "Happy Happy Joy Joy"! ;D
I've had my portion of Dylan for today. Back to Cooder and Chavez Ravine. What an album.
My favorite track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eincwdeg1Ik&feature=channel_video_title
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I love this forum, we can disagree, it can get animated, and then we all love each other again ;D
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GROUP HUG! :-*
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GROUP HUG! :-*
yeaaaahhh!! :-*
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I like Ry Cooder. I think I'll write a blog...
LE
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I like Ry Cooder. I think I'll write a blog...
LE
Hehe. Love it. I'll read it!