A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Almost Straits => Topic started by: the visitor on April 11, 2012, 12:27:03 PM
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Just been reading Alans site and saw this response to a question from a fan -
"yes, I did briefly consider using former DS people when I put this band together - John Illsley told me he would "dearly love" to join our band - but I wanted to make the best noise possible and have a nice time while doing so, so I handpicked these guys, including probably the best rock drummer in the world: Steve Ferrone."
Whilst I am an outspoken defender of the straits, even I am wound up by this comment. He doesn't actually say why John didn't join the band, but to reject a founder member of the group seems like a stupid and disrespectful thing to do, IF that is what happened. I would much rather hear John on bass rather than mick feat, good as he is.
There is of course chance Alan is embelishing how he presents this, but that in itself is wrong.
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From a musical standpoint, John never was a great musician. Plus, he hasn't been very active on the music scene up until recently, so maybe Alan simply thinks he isn't good enough. And recently he had physical problems, so it might have been risky. However, John was just one of those familiar faces in DS. He just belongs. DS without John is almost just as wrong as without Mark.
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As far as being a "great musician" goes, well I'm no expert. However, I do know that bass is just bass and the less I hear the better! In fact I tend to liken it to incidental music in a film in that you know it's good if you don't notice it!
P.S. I hope I didn't offend any bass players out there because of course once the bass is absent you soon know about it's importance.
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I am not comfortable with Alan statement. I feel like Alan is saying only part of the truth.
We know that John would have a go to a posssible (one off) Dire Straits reunion, but nothing certain that he would do it without Mark involved in it...
To me that sounds like complete bullshit to do "The Straits" and do it without John if he would have agreed to be part of it.
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@dmg,
Yeah, bass is a funny instrument. It's easy to get the rudiments and learn to play a simple three-chord song. You know, keep the rhythm and play the root note of the chord. But it takes a lot of experience to know how to play the right notes and the right amount of notes. The bass has a rhythmic and harmonic role and is one of the instruments where you can't afford to miss a beat. Guitar players are often hopeless bass players because it's easy to play for example lead-guitar fills, which is just wrong. But even though bass may seem "boring" compared with playing a screaming lead guitar, playing the bass can be extremely satisfying because every single note has such a great impact on the overall feel and mood of the music. It's really the bass that pulls the song in a certain direction. So, bass players are vested with a lot of power, so to speak.
As for John, he played what he was supposed to play, and he did his job. Simple, but effective. And "correct". But from an interview I read from years ago, I know that the way he talked about his style and repertoire, that he is pretty limited. Imagine the band wants to explore some more advanced stuff, rhythmically and harmonically, then he wouldn't know what to do. Hence, in my opinion his lack of versatility is a big reason why Mark went with Glenn Worf (and the session players for the jazzier parts of his soundstracks and Brother In Arms).
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And another one of Alan Clark's strange remarks that obviously (AMIT) people are not comfortable with. I am not surprised by this, in fact I do not expect any other from him.
LE
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So, John was good enough to play in the original band but is not good enough to play in 'the straits'? That is just ridiculous.
Jackal, I think you nailed it, but we have to remember that John was more than a bass player in DS. He was the guy who was kind of a organizing brain behind the early band's logistics, he was the accounting guy, he was the "reality guy" to complement the "artistic genius" part that was MK. Finally, he was the only founding member (except for Mark of course) that remained in the band till the very end, and that says something about the friendship and respect that MK and JI have obviously had to each other.
I agree that John is probably not the greatest bass player around, but his minimalistic playing was part of the characteristic style of the band.
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I agree that John is probably not the greatest bass player around, but his minimalistic playing was part of the characteristic style of the band.
+1.
I was unaware of this until the MK & Friends gigs. Then I realized the influence he did have on the sound of Dire Straits.
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I agree that John is probably not the greatest bass player around, but his minimalistic playing was part of the characteristic style of the band.
+1.
I was unaware of this until the MK & Friends gigs. Then I realized the influence he did have on the sound of Dire Straits.
Sometimes I think it sounds as though Glenn is away playing his own wee tune and then he finally comes back at the end. Gives a whole new meaning to MK's joke "good luck, see you at the end!"
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I agree that John is probably not the greatest bass player around, but his minimalistic playing was part of the characteristic style of the band.
Absolutely. Especially on the first two records. It's just right. It just fits.
Sometimes I think it sounds as though Glenn is away playing his own wee tune and then he finally comes back at the end. Gives a whole new meaning to MK's joke "good luck, see you at the end!"
Hehe. I'm not that crazy about Glenn's playing either. He has a great tone. Lovely bass sound, but his style can be very busy, almost distracting. Mark's music isn't exactly Bela Fleck and the Flecktones.
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Alan Clark needs to get s grip. What a tube.
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I'm imagining that John would've had in the back of his mind that had he joined The Straits it would disqualify him from any further work with MK. Which, I think would still make JI a very happy chap, however unlikely?
It's probably not as straightforward as alans answer suggests - I doubt very much Alan would reject John as he would bring a mountain of further publicity. My hunch is the rejection went the other way, and now Alan is throwing misleading words out there...
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Hey, welcome to this forum, Mr. Dusty Val.... oh, sorry, I just saw the number of your posts... It seems that you must have been around before,
so I just say "Hi"!
;D ;D
LE
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dusty must have gotten lost in donkeytown.. ::)
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I agree that John is probably not the greatest bass player around, but his minimalistic playing was part of the characteristic style of the band.
Absolutely. Especially on the first two records. It's just right. It just fits.
Sometimes I think it sounds as though Glenn is away playing his own wee tune and then he finally comes back at the end. Gives a whole new meaning to MK's joke "good luck, see you at the end!"
Hehe. I'm not that crazy about Glenn's playing either. He has a great tone. Lovely bass sound, but his style can be very busy, almost distracting. Mark's music isn't exactly Bela Fleck and the Flecktones.
But Mark still ask Glenn to play, after all these years. So from that point I should assume that what he plays and the way he plays is what Mark is looking for his music. I like both bass player, but in concert the bass line during HFB is incredible and definitively not what John seem able to produce. Like for Danny's drumming on SOS, some nights I can forget the others instruments to focus just *on* that, the way it evolves during the song. And on others night enjoy the whole thing with everybody in it (and of course Mark more than the rest ;) ).
* : edited part "on" instead of "of".
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Like for Danny's drumming on SOS, some nights I can forget the others instruments to focus just of that, the way it evolves during the song. And on others night enjoy the whole thing with everybody in it (and of course Mark more than the rest ;) ).
+1
Yeah, Danny will be missed...
LE
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Sorry guys, I've had a lot of changes going on, and I just don'tget the chance to post, I read everything though. :)
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Sorry guys, I've had a lot of changes going on, and I just don'tget the chance to post, I read everything though. :)
Lovely to see you back with us, Dusty! :)
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I noticed Alan wasnt part of the MK and Friends gigs too. . maybe there was a fall out between them long before The Straits?
was wondering too why Phil Palmer isnt with The Straits anymore yet he is playing with other ex members,
Agree that without John in a DS band it just isnt right. . I listened to Private Investigations played by The Straits and it seemed to miss the pumping, almost heart beat bass part at the end
Great forum guys. . this is my first post, glad to be here!
Mark
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I noticed Alan wasnt part of the MK and Friends gigs too. . maybe there was a fall out between them long before The Straits?
He was a huge miss for these 4 shows.
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I noticed Alan wasnt part of the MK and Friends gigs too. . maybe there was a fall out between them long before The Straits?
He was a huge miss for these 4 shows.
Exactly. If he was there we could always say it was a true reunion. As it was, it only seemed like a semi. :o
I still think these 2002 gigs were very nice though; good versions with great energy.
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Oh man, don't get me started,...beaulie..
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Oh man, don't get me started,...beaulie..
Oh, go on - start! ;D
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Oh man, don't get me started,...beaulie..
Oh, go on - start! ;D
NO, PLEASE, DON
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For me another point about The Straits is Steve Ferrone .. i dont think his playing (as great as he is) suits the band at all, it just doesnt sound right to me.
Anyone agree?
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I never liked Steve Ferrone. When played with Clapton during the 90's I didnt liked him, and with The Straits, his playing doesnt suits the songs at all, in the contrary...
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I agree with everything you just said. . .im so glad its not just me!
I heard one recording of tunnel of love and when steve kicked in it sounded like he'd fallen over his kit!
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I never liked Steve Ferrone. When played with Clapton during the 90's I didnt liked him, and with The Straits, his playing doesnt suits the songs at all, in the contrary...
In the 80s too when MK and Alan were touring with EC. Coincidently! ;) It's not what you know, but who you know.
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In the 80s too when MK and Alan were touring with EC. Coincidently! ;) It's not what you know, but who you know.
Just incidentally - bass players and drummers aside - one of the US shows of that incredible tour is available at amazon:
http://www.amazon.de/Eric-Clapton-After-Midnight-Live/dp/B000GDH9QO/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1346418728&sr=8-10 (http://www.amazon.de/Eric-Clapton-After-Midnight-Live/dp/B000GDH9QO/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1346418728&sr=8-10)
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In the 80s too when MK and Alan were touring with EC. Coincidently! ;) It's not what you know, but who you know.
Just incidentally - bass players and drummers aside - one of the US shows of that incredible tour is available at amazon:
http://www.amazon.de/Eric-Clapton-After-Midnight-Live/dp/B000GDH9QO/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1346418728&sr=8-10 (http://www.amazon.de/Eric-Clapton-After-Midnight-Live/dp/B000GDH9QO/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1346418728&sr=8-10)
ILLEGAL STUFF
Ask for your free copy, never pay for that!
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In the 80s too when MK and Alan were touring with EC. Coincidently! ;) It's not what you know, but who you know.
Just incidentally - bass players and drummers aside - one of the US shows of that incredible tour is available at amazon:
http://www.amazon.de/Eric-Clapton-After-Midnight-Live/dp/B000GDH9QO/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1346418728&sr=8-10 (http://www.amazon.de/Eric-Clapton-After-Midnight-Live/dp/B000GDH9QO/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1346418728&sr=8-10)
ILLEGAL STUFF
Ask for your free copy, never pay for that!
You've got me confused now... you certainly know more about these things than I do, which is nil, but I wonder if amazon would really sell it in their regular catalogue if it was illegal to begin with? That would be alarming, wouldn't it?
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In the 80s too when MK and Alan were touring with EC. Coincidently! ;) It's not what you know, but who you know.
Just incidentally - bass players and drummers aside - one of the US shows of that incredible tour is available at amazon:
http://www.amazon.de/Eric-Clapton-After-Midnight-Live/dp/B000GDH9QO/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1346418728&sr=8-10 (http://www.amazon.de/Eric-Clapton-After-Midnight-Live/dp/B000GDH9QO/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1346418728&sr=8-10)
ILLEGAL STUFF
Ask for your free copy, never pay for that!
You've got me confused now... you certainly know more about these things than I do, which is nil, but I wonder if amazon would really sell it in their regular catalogue if it was illegal to begin with? That would be alarming, wouldn't it?
It happened before
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maybe it is "semi" legal.
or legal in certain countries.