A Mark In Time

Previous Tours => 2012 Mark Knopfler & Bob Dylan Tour => Topic started by: jbaent on October 16, 2012, 06:14:25 PM

Title: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: jbaent on October 16, 2012, 06:14:25 PM
C#09  San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Auditorium, USA

(http://www.ticketsr.com/images/hall/113313765044c801942bf55.jpg)

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=224 (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=224)

http://expectingrain.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72512 (http://expectingrain.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72512)

AMIT attendees:
sweetsurrender



Set Lists
Different from previous show in RED


Mark Knopfler
1. What It Is
2. Corned beef city
3. Privateering
4. Yon Two Crows
5. I Used to Could
6. Song for Sonny Liston
7. Done with Bonaparte
8. Hill farmer's blues
9. Haul away
10. Marbletown
Encore
11. So Far Away





Bob Dylan
1. Watching The River Flow
2. Man In The Long Black Coat
3. Things Have Changed
4. Tangled Up In Blue
5. Cry A While
6. Joey
7. Beyond Here Lies Nothin'
8. Visions Of Johanna
9. Highway 61 Revisited
10. Forgetful Heart
11. Thunder On The Mountain
12. Ballad Of A Thin Man
13. Like A Rolling Stone
14. All Along The Watchtower

(encore)
15. Blowin' In The Wind






Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: sweetsurrender on October 17, 2012, 09:55:01 PM
Well, I'm getting ready to go across the Bay Bridge in a few hours here.  It will take about 35 minutes to get to SF. Don't know what kind of crowds will be there.  But I'm excited !!!!! Will report with setlist. Weather is unbelievable here. super warm today and  tomorrow.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: shangri la 1 on October 17, 2012, 09:57:55 PM
 ;) enjoy the show! I feel the band are starting to get a handle on all the new songs now.  :thumbsup
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: Fieneke2 on October 17, 2012, 10:22:45 PM

Sweetsurrender and all the other MK fans I wish you all a wonderful time during the concert!
Reading some of the reviews, I am sure you will love it too! :P

I am looking forward to know how it was!

Fieneke
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: Pottel on October 18, 2012, 07:16:58 AM
Sound was average, mark too. Worst 2012 show to date.
Wii
CBC
Priv.
Ytc.
Iutc
Sfsl
Dwb
Hfb
Ha
Marble
So far away...
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: Love Expresso on October 18, 2012, 08:40:46 AM
? Says who? Pretty harsh words from you? (just saying)

LE
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: herlock on October 18, 2012, 08:48:45 AM
? Says who? Pretty harsh words from you? (just saying)

LE
+1
Did you hear them all to compare ? We only have the 2 first ones so far...
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: Love Expresso on October 18, 2012, 09:08:53 AM
I guess Pottel has it from someone who was there and is reliable, but still wondering...

LE
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: Pyroaction on October 18, 2012, 09:16:53 AM
Sound was average, mark too. Worst 2012 show to date.
Wii
CBC
Priv.
Ytc.
Iutc
Sfsl
Dwb
Hfb
Ha
Marble
So far away...
Hill Farmer's Blues has been played or not?
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: shangri la 1 on October 18, 2012, 09:39:13 AM
Sound was average, mark too. Worst 2012 show to date.
Wii
CBC
Priv.
Ytc.
Iutc
Sfsl
Dwb
Hfb
Ha
Marble
So far away...
Hill Farmer's Blues has been played or not?
Sorry, I missed it when I did the top of page changes. Done now.  :thumbsup
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: sweetsurrender on October 18, 2012, 09:50:51 AM
Back from my show. It's almost 1 am. You guys gonna be happy !  I recorded both audio and video.   Will try to sort and upload to the tracker. I'll give you my views of the show tomorrow.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: dannyjun on October 18, 2012, 09:56:10 AM
Wow, you recorded video too? Great!! :)
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: ingridswing on October 18, 2012, 11:05:09 AM
Back from my show. It's almost 1 am. You guys gonna be happy !  I recorded both audio and video.   Will try to sort and upload to the tracker. I'll give you my views of the show tomorrow.

You rock!!
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: jbaent on October 18, 2012, 11:25:33 AM
Back from my show. It's almost 1 am. You guys gonna be happy !  I recorded both audio and video.   Will try to sort and upload to the tracker. I'll give you my views of the show tomorrow.

Wow!

 :clap :clap :clap

Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: superval99 on October 18, 2012, 12:06:02 PM
Thanks a million, sweetsurrender!   :clap     I hope you enjoyed the show!    :)
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: tunnel85 on October 18, 2012, 12:27:28 PM
That's really great ! Most important thing is if you were happy  ;D
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: arabia on October 18, 2012, 01:10:04 PM
Looking forward to seeing the video and hearing the recording. I always liked that venue, at least compared to the Oakland Coliseum or the Kaiser. Saw a few GD NYE shows back in the early 80's there.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: joanzimm on October 18, 2012, 01:36:56 PM
Back from my show. It's almost 1 am. You guys gonna be happy !  I recorded both audio and video.   Will try to sort and upload to the tracker. I'll give you my views of the show tomorrow.

Sweetsurrender, you are sweet :-* :-*
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: dmg on October 18, 2012, 01:42:13 PM
? Says who? Pretty harsh words from you? (just saying)

LE
+1
Did you hear them all to compare ? We only have the 2 first ones so far...

He's saying that for my benefit, so I don't build up any expectations! ;)

You'll need to get up earlier than that mate! ;D
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: nababo on October 18, 2012, 03:43:00 PM
Back from my show. It's almost 1 am. You guys gonna be happy !  I recorded both audio and video.   Will try to sort and upload to the tracker. I'll give you my views of the show tomorrow.

Hey, thanks in advance!
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: sweetsurrender on October 18, 2012, 08:06:58 PM
Videos are being uploaded to YT at the moment.  I was hesitant to video recording in the beginning. Securities were walking around.  After a while I decided to take my chance.  I'm gald to report that I captured almost the entire show with the exception of the opening. I think I missed What it Is.  I had the entire show on audio.  I will work on uploading it to the tracker.  I also recorded BD on audio only.

OK. On with the thoughts about the show last night.  The hardest thing to cope with after the show is always the post MK blues.  This time it hit fast.  One moment you experienced a moment of toal bliss, the next, it was all gone.  That's how I kinda of feel this morning.  What made this particularly different was that, you go to MK's concerts, you see him and the band do their usual full set. You sort of feel complete, satisfied,fullfilled, happy, joyful however you want to describe it. Last night wasn't the case, though.  I felt  something was lacking.  It wasn't quite complete.  You had that yearning for more, but unfortunately, it couldn't be delivered.  That's all the 70 minutes that MK and the band had.  Not unitl I realized that, this is indeed A Bob Dylan's show.  Mark and the band are the opening act.  Everywhere around me, there were all faithful Dylan's fans.  I felt kind of weird, out of place maybe.  But they were all very nice.  They wanted to come hear Mark.  They praised, cheered, and applauded vigorously.  So, that was nice to see.  2 other MK fans were at the front with me.  They both left when BD came on stage.  I stuck around til the end and truly immersed myself in his recently discovered music.  I couldn't quite understand what he was signing, but the band and the music was good.  Lots of energy.  The crowds really had a great time.  The hope that Mark will share the stage soon faded,as BD was closing out the show with I thik "Blowing in the wind" ?


Mark and the band was on top form last night.  I was first in the line standing right next to the rail center to Mark.  He's probably 6 feet away.  So, yes, I was able to see the expressions on this face, you know the shrugging of the shoulders and the closing of the  eyes.  Ladies, I tell you, Mark looks fantastic !!!!! ;)  He looks thinner to me too.  He had on black jean, black T-shirt, and a black long sleeve dotted patterns shirt.  oh, with brown pairs of shoes.   ;)

I hope to be up front again tonight.  And give some more thoughts on the show.

Privateering
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2QtJqiFs7g&list=UUjmgUvAM_SCRFlQpejXQ5Iw&index=4&feature=plcp  
Yon two crows & I used to could
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyz37P2lX0k&list=UUjmgUvAM_SCRFlQpejXQ5Iw&index=3&feature=plcp  
Song for Sonny Liston & Band Introduction
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDJ-hl1aDrs&list=UUjmgUvAM_SCRFlQpejXQ5Iw&index=2&feature=plcp  
Done with Bonaparte & Hill Farmers blues
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-khOnFSsuc&list=UUjmgUvAM_SCRFlQpejXQ5Iw&index=1&feature=plcp

Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: silentguy on October 18, 2012, 08:41:47 PM
Glad you got up front.

There was no up front in Vancouver, Seattle, or Portland shows that I attended.

Depends on the venue I guess and how security handles it.

Eveyone stayed seated.

For Dylan it seems that some fans went to the stage.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: ingridswing on October 18, 2012, 08:50:40 PM
It also depends on the people themselves. In Holland we always go up front. Same in Germany however the security tries to stop us But 10 securities can't do anything to 50 or more fans going up front
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: dustyvalentino on October 18, 2012, 10:15:51 PM
Thanks for the review and the recordings!
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: vgonis on October 18, 2012, 10:31:21 PM
Thank you Sweetsurrender. (have been meaning to ask you, about your nick, a Tim Buckley reference?)
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: shangri la 1 on October 18, 2012, 10:36:31 PM
Thanks for your efforts sweetsurrender - Have another great night tonight!!  :clap

So far away again! Quality good 1080kbps:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOiZmHYAt64
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: dmg on October 18, 2012, 10:50:28 PM
Thank you Sweetsurrender. (have been meaning to ask you, about your nick, a Tim Buckley reference?)

Or a Wet Wet Wet fan? :think
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: Pottel on October 18, 2012, 11:06:08 PM
Hey sweet, how full was the venue?
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: dmg on October 18, 2012, 11:08:09 PM
Notice at the end of the video of Privateering he put on his white Schecter Strat for Crows.  Save for the 2007 promo shows, not used since the OES tour.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: sweetsurrender on October 18, 2012, 11:15:56 PM
Thank you Sweetsurrender. (have been meaning to ask you, about your nick, a Tim Buckley reference?)

Do you remember this line?

Sweet surrender down to the quayside
Do you remember, we used to run and hide
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: vgonis on October 18, 2012, 11:21:43 PM
Yes I do! :D
Foolish me. 
I just love the "Greetings from LA" album very much that I went for the title rather than look for the obvious DS reference. If you haven't heard of it give it a try, it is fantastic.
A very nice review, made me crave for more!
Thanks once again.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: sweetsurrender on October 18, 2012, 11:26:36 PM
Hey sweet, how full was the venue?

The floor looked pretty packed. It's hard for me to tell. I was at the very front right next to the rail.  It certainly wasn't a sold out night. There were fans purchasing tickets the night of.  Quite a few empty seats on top.  Good numbers of people were smoking joints, they were intoxicatedly high during BD. Unfortunately, the smoke was blowing my way. Couldn't say I liked it. 

I don't expect it to sell out tonight either.  Merchandise stand. One MK t-shirt in Black and grey for Men. Aargh. I'll take a picture tonight.

Oh, the guitars. When MK took out the red strat. Man, it's a real beauty !

I've posted first few videos on the recording thread. Audio recording, will work on uploading to the tracker.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: twm on October 19, 2012, 12:54:53 AM
Just out of interest, I saw both Buckleys live, father and son  - Tim Buckley when he guested at an Incredible String Band concert in London and Jeff Buckley at a student gig in Manchester. I guess there are only a  few people in Europe who can say they saw them both.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: silentguy on October 19, 2012, 12:59:06 AM
Hey sweet, how full was the venue?

The floor looked pretty packed. It's hard for me to tell. I was at the very front right next to the rail.  It certainly wasn't a sold out night. There were fans purchasing tickets the night of.  Quite a few empty seats on top.  Good numbers of people were smoking joints, they were intoxicatedly high during BD. Unfortunately, the smoke was blowing my way. Couldn't say I liked it. 

I don't expect it to sell out tonight either.  Merchandise stand. One MK t-shirt in Black and grey for Men. Aargh. I'll take a picture tonight.

Oh, the guitars. When MK took out the red strat. Man, it's a real beauty !

I've posted first few videos on the recording thread. Audio recording, will work on uploading to the tracker.


Yes only 2 pieces of MK merchandise, t-shirts.
And the poster that had Dylan and date and location.
I didnt buy anything.
I usu get a program, but not even a Dylan program was available.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: Pottel on October 19, 2012, 01:01:04 AM
saw buckley once, (son) boy he was like an effing whirlwind he was!
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: vgonis on October 19, 2012, 01:37:35 AM
Never saw father or son. Jeff had such a short life and career that it seems to me a bit overblown, but Tim had a fantastic recording career. Both they deserved longer lives. 
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: twm on October 19, 2012, 01:54:50 AM
When I saw Jeff B, he joined the support act on drums for one song in their set and, in his own set, he sang "Happy Birthday" imitating the Marilyn Monroe  "tribute" to President JFK.

In 1997, when I heard the news that Dylan had been hospitalized, I called a record company contact in New York (it was a Friiday night, as I recall) to ask for news. At first, the person on the other end of the phone misunderstood and started talking about Jeff Buckley, who, at that stage, was simply reported as missing. He told me about Jeff going to this river in Memphis with a member of the crew, who turned to move a radio, then turned back to find Jeff gone. There was no sign of him and nobdoy knew for sure what had happened. It was a rather spooky experience.

In respect of Tim Buckley, "Greetings From LA" (from which "Sweet Surrender" comes)  is a wonderful album. His voice soars and swoops (and sometimes growls in a lascivious way) on what is essentially an r'n'b/rock album, with some (ahem!) "adult" lyrics. Captivating stuff and such a change from "Starsailor" , which preceded it and was a "way out" jazzy album. And neither of them at all like the folk-orientated (and somewhat more "poetic") albums with which he started out.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: vgonis on October 19, 2012, 02:16:49 AM
Thanks for sharing, twm!
Reminded me of a "peculiar" situation some time ago. I have a friend that uses my photos for books, adds and other editions and he is a real prankster. I am good with voices and I usually understand its him, so I return the prank to sender. So, I get this telephone call one day, and I understand it is my friend. So he keeps on talking to me like he is a total stranger and I replied, that vgonis has passed away and it is really sad. The line went quite and then in a trembling voice I heard him say that he is really sorry and that he didn't mean to bother. I kept going with this dead story for a couple of minutes, with much detail, probably like a "happy we got rid of him" relative,  when all the clues came heavy on me: I was not talking to my friend, but to a complete stranger who had called to ask for my photos! I was so embarrassed and I didn't know how to get out of it! What really pissed me off, was the fact that I was so ashamed that I couldn't say no to his request, after everything was cleared. I met him several days later by chance and I was still feeling quite stupid with the whole incident.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: Holger_MK on October 19, 2012, 07:22:30 AM

Notice at the end of the video of Privateering he put on his white Schecter Strat for Crows.  Save for the 2007 promo shows, not used since the OES tour.


For me it looks not like the old Schecter but like the Don Grosh that he played on Piper To The End.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: Love Expresso on October 19, 2012, 07:50:10 AM
I guess Holger_MK is right. Did he use Schecter Strats at all during the last few years?

LE
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: dustyvalentino on October 19, 2012, 07:59:40 AM
The white one was indeed used on the 2007 promo shows, the red was used by Richard Bennett on Fish and the Bird.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: twm on October 19, 2012, 09:49:07 AM
On Privateering, the acoustic guitar phrase before he starts singing is reminiscent of the old folk standard "500 miles" - at least, to these ears.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: twm on October 19, 2012, 10:50:21 AM
Just played "Bonaparte" but it seemed changed to me. You guys will know about these things. It seemed much more of a run through, perfunctory almost, much less dynamic than I recall. Lyrically, it is a song of resignation but, even so, (and I don't really know how to explain my feeling here) there was no real "bite" to the vocal. And not much by way of playing, either. The sound was a bit bass heavy, so maybe that explains my response. I know that some on AMIT don't like "Bonaparte" as much as I do but, live, it has been a song I usually foot-tap my way through, sometimes with vigour. On hearing this rendition, I can't imagine my doing that. Comments, anyone?
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: dmg on October 19, 2012, 12:53:12 PM
Just played "Bonaparte" but it seemed changed to me. You guys will know about these things. It seemed much more of a run through, perfunctory almost, much less dynamic than I recall. Lyrically, it is a song of resignation but, even so, (and I don't really know how to explain my feeling here) there was no real "bite" to the vocal. And not much by way of playing, either. The sound was a bit bass heavy, so maybe that explains my response. I know that some on AMIT don't like "Bonaparte" as much as I do but, live, it has been a song I usually foot-tap my way through, sometimes with vigour. On hearing this rendition, I can't imagine my doing that. Comments, anyone?

I think the bass heavy sound was perhaps due to the location of the recorder or the recorder itself.

As for the rest of your comments, I believe they are pretty valid although it's always hard to tell in a song like this - and by that I mean acoustically dependant - unless one is actually present. 

One thing to bear in mind is that one of the reasons the song isn't popular is because it's overplayed, yes and because for bootleg collectors every version has sounded exactly the same for years!
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: JF on October 19, 2012, 01:18:44 PM
The white one was indeed used on the 2007 promo shows
Tuned in dropped D, played with pick and trem arm on Let it all go
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: Rail King on October 19, 2012, 02:36:50 PM
Just played "Bonaparte" but it seemed changed to me. You guys will know about these things. It seemed much more of a run through, perfunctory almost, much less dynamic than I recall. Lyrically, it is a song of resignation but, even so, (and I don't really know how to explain my feeling here) there was no real "bite" to the vocal. And not much by way of playing, either. The sound was a bit bass heavy, so maybe that explains my response. I know that some on AMIT don't like "Bonaparte" as much as I do but, live, it has been a song I usually foot-tap my way through, sometimes with vigour. On hearing this rendition, I can't imagine my doing that. Comments, anyone?

I think the bass heavy sound was perhaps due to the location of the recorder or the recorder itself.

As for the rest of your comments, I believe they are pretty valid although it's always hard to tell in a song like this - and by that I mean acoustically dependant - unless one is actually present. 

One thing to bear in mind is that one of the reasons the song isn't popular is because it's overplayed, yes and because for bootleg collectors every version has sounded exactly the same for years!

Funny that Guy Fletcher (on his homepage) should say about the same song that he thought it had "renewed vigor". And for once, I agree with him. The audio quality here is not too good, so it's hard to tell, but I really liked what I heard. To me, it sounded as if they were really into playing this, and I like Ian's drums. The audience seemed pretty happy, too.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: silentguy on October 20, 2012, 02:02:14 AM
Thank you Sweetsurrender. (have been meaning to ask you, about your nick, a Tim Buckley reference?)

Do you remember this line?

Sweet surrender down to the quayside
Do you remember, we used to run and hide


Yeah, I knew that was where your sig was from,  Down To The Waterline.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: sweetsurrender on October 22, 2012, 09:33:59 PM
San Francisco Show on Oct 17, 2012 is now on the tracker. 

http://tracker.knopflertk.net/torrents-details.php?id=2369

Enjoy !
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: nababo on October 23, 2012, 08:50:21 PM
Just played "Bonaparte" but it seemed changed to me. You guys will know about these things. It seemed much more of a run through, perfunctory almost, much less dynamic than I recall. Lyrically, it is a song of resignation but, even so, (and I don't really know how to explain my feeling here) there was no real "bite" to the vocal. And not much by way of playing, either. The sound was a bit bass heavy, so maybe that explains my response. I know that some on AMIT don't like "Bonaparte" as much as I do but, live, it has been a song I usually foot-tap my way through, sometimes with vigour. On hearing this rendition, I can't imagine my doing that. Comments, anyone?

I think the bass heavy sound was perhaps due to the location of the recorder or the recorder itself.

As for the rest of your comments, I believe they are pretty valid although it's always hard to tell in a song like this - and by that I mean acoustically dependant - unless one is actually present. 

One thing to bear in mind is that one of the reasons the song isn't popular is because it's overplayed, yes and because for bootleg collectors every version has sounded exactly the same for years!

Funny that Guy Fletcher (on his homepage) should say about the same song that he thought it had "renewed vigor". And for once, I agree with him. The audio quality here is not too good, so it's hard to tell, but I really liked what I heard. To me, it sounded as if they were really into playing this, and I like Ian's drums. The audience seemed pretty happy, too.

Actually I think Mark have changed the harmony of the song a little bit
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: Pottel on October 23, 2012, 09:42:21 PM
wow, what it is is so different now...i REALLY like the violin bit in the middle, and also mark is awesome...
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: herlock on October 23, 2012, 10:11:02 PM
wow, what it is is so different now...i REALLY like the violin bit in the middle, and also mark is awesome...
I thought this was "the worst 2012 concert so far" ? Why did you say that, btw ?
It is good, YTC extended solo, nonetheless I still prefer Saskatoon, this one is perfect sound, the guitar on the YTC outro solo can be heard very well, unlike SF where it is covered by the other instruments.
Saskatoon still my favourite ! :)
Well, I'm still hoping Hide will upload the second night... No offense to Sweetsurrender who was very nice to tape, but Soolos and Hide took the audience recording to another level with their top notch equipment...
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: sweetsurrender on October 23, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
wow, what it is is so different now...i REALLY like the violin bit in the middle, and also mark is awesome...
I thought this was "the worst 2012 concert so far" ? Why did you say that, btw ?
It is good, YTC extended solo, nonetheless I still prefer Saskatoon, this one is perfect sound, the guitar on the YTC outro solo can be heard very well, unlike SF where it is covered by the other instruments.
Saskatoon still my favourite ! :)
Well, I'm still hoping Hide will upload the second night... No offense to Sweetsurrender who was very nice to tape, but Soolos and Hide took the audience recording to another level with their top notch equipment...

No offense at all.  I wish I had better equipment knowing what I've known now how much I would treasure the recordings after the show. I was blown away by Soolos (haven't heard hide) yet. If you said so, must be so. I hope they will upload every show. Do you know if they have 2 nights in SF?

I'll definitely invest in a much better equipment next time when Mark does his whole show.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: jbaent on October 24, 2012, 09:03:43 AM
Their equipment is VERY expensive!!!!!
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: vgonis on October 24, 2012, 01:46:26 PM
sweetsurrender, i don't really know much about sound, i take for granted what the experts say. But mp3 is alright for me and I wish to thank you for your care and attention. Spending time and stealing even a tiny bit of attention from fully enjoying the show, only to please us is a big thing in my book.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: herlock on October 24, 2012, 01:52:39 PM
sweetsurrender, i don't really know much about sound, i take for granted what the experts say. But mp3 is alright for me and I wish to thank you for your care and attention. Spending time and stealing even a tiny bit of attention from fully enjoying the show, only to please us is a big thing in my book.

The problem is not that much lossy vs. losseless e.g. mp3 vs. flac... I am a bit tired of these "no lossy files" mantra, because it does not mean anything. To be honest, Simfy recordings were lossy mp3 at a good birate (320 kb/s) and they sounded fabulous; Frankly, 24bits/48khz resolution is a bit overkill for an andience recording. These high-res recs can only be enjoyed on very high-end amplifier + speakers... provided the sound source is really great.

24/96 just gives you the assurance that whatever the mics hearded was faithfully recorded with no loss; but if the mics hear crap, crap will be recorded !

The important thing is more how to capture a good sound in the first place; this is where the 2 hi-fi mics + portable pre-amplifier play a big role, and this is what is expensive.

I wonder btw, how do these tapers hold their pair of mics ? one in each hand ? not very discrete.... one clipped on each side of the jacket ?


Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: vgonis on October 24, 2012, 02:28:55 PM
You make an excellent point with the recording equipment/bit rate plus original sound.

As for the mic thing, have you seen the zoom h1 &h2 recorders? the mics are nicely placed and work perfectly, from what I hear. The problem is where to hide it and how to record. And if you read MK.com, recordings are prohibited in this tour. So bravo and thank you to both sweet surrender and soomlos, without reserves.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: herlock on October 24, 2012, 03:32:29 PM
You make an excellent point with the recording equipment/bit rate plus original sound.

As for the mic thing, have you seen the zoom h1 &h2 recorders? the mics are nicely placed and work perfectly, from what I hear. The problem is where to hide it and how to record. And if you read MK.com, recordings are prohibited in this tour. So bravo and thank you to both sweet surrender and soomlos, without reserves.

For the lossy/losseless debate: yeah, the thing is, some mp3 recordings *can* be great if they were captured properly and if the bitrate is sufficient; I would prefer a properly captured mp3 recording over a badly captured 24/96 flac recording anytime ! but still, the good mp3 recording will be banned from trackers according to the irrational, religious belief that "flac is necessarily good, mp3 is necessarily crap".

So, the absurdity is, good guys with casual equipment (Sweetsurrender, or myself, this has happened to me last year), take their mp3 recording, convert it to flac so that it is accepted by the trackers, which of course does not add anything good to it, only unecessary size... then they are told to say that the source is mp3, which leads to their recording being ultimately removed from the tracker !

Why could not people freely upload their files, being losseless or lossy, and let the users decide for themselves if it suits them ? Despite being a purist, what I usually do is: download the flac files (which takes bandwidth hence time, plus hard disk space) and then I take the trouble to *downgrade* them in MP3 or rather AAC to put them on my Iphone, so that the memory is not completely eaten up. And it suits me perfectly ! a 192 kbs/s AAC is more than enough on the road, I don't feel any difference !

The Soomlos and Hide recordings are of course great, but they are not great mainly because they are lossless, they are great because they have been captured with great equipment by people who know what they are doing. Of course there is nothing wrong with them being lossless, it can only add to their quality, but is it *that* critical to be worth this "no lossy files" mantra ?

I don't think so.
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: holaknopfler on October 24, 2012, 03:56:20 PM
You make an excellent point with the recording equipment/bit rate plus original sound.

As for the mic thing, have you seen the zoom h1 &h2 recorders? the mics are nicely placed and work perfectly, from what I hear. The problem is where to hide it and how to record. And if you read MK.com, recordings are prohibited in this tour. So bravo and thank you to both sweet surrender and soomlos, without reserves.

For the lossy/losseless debate: yeah, the thing is, some mp3 recordings *can* be great if they were captured properly and if the bitrate is sufficient; I would prefer a properly captured mp3 recording over a badly captured 24/96 flac recording anytime ! but still, the good mp3 recording will be banned from trackers according to the irrational, religious belief that "flac is necessarily good, mp3 is necessarily crap".

So, the absurdity is, good guys with casual equipment (Sweetsurrender, or myself, this has happened to me last year), take their mp3 recording, convert it to flac so that it is accepted by the trackers, which of course does not add anything good to it, only unecessary size... then they are told to say that the source is mp3, which leads to their recording being ultimately removed from the tracker !

Why could not people freely upload their files, being losseless or lossy, and let the users decide for themselves if it suits them ? Despite being a purist, what I usually do is: download the flac files (which takes bandwidth hence time, plus hard disk space) and then I take the trouble to *downgrade* them in MP3 or rather AAC to put them on my Iphone, so that the memory is not completely eaten up. And it suits me perfectly ! a 192 kbs/s AAC is more than enough on the road, I don't feel any difference !

The Soomlos and Hide recordings are of course great, but they are not great mainly because they are lossless, they are great because they have been captured with great equipment by people who know what they are doing. Of course there is nothing wrong with them being lossless, it can only add to their quality, but is it *that* critical to be worth this "no lossy files" mantra ?

I don't think so.

Couldn't agree more!
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: vgonis on October 24, 2012, 04:14:49 PM
I believe that "lossless audiophiles" agree as well. It is only a matter of better source sound. If an mp3 source is better, they tend to keep it, even if they find an uncompressed file but with crappy sound. I don't even have time to listen carefully, (more than once) many of these recordings! So many records from fantastic musicians other than MK!  :o Yes I admit it.  ;D
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: JF on October 24, 2012, 05:33:33 PM
anyway, I prefer a bad sounding recording of MK than a proper hi-fi lossless hi-tech recording of...lady gaga  ;D

during yeras I have listened to music on a porr cassette player, in mono, almost staurated, things I had recorded directly on TV, and sometimes even by putting the mic into an headphone plugged on the TV !  :o

and I had some friends who were listen music on CD players, with high-tech hi-fi sound systme, but they were listen to.... JJ Goldman or Patrick Bruel  ;D ;D ;D ;D


Even today I still have my 10 years old tube TV, but I prefer watching the beatles docs I recorded last sunday on it, rather than "the voice" or "danse avec les stars"  or whatever dull TV show on a 50' led screen!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

ok ok, I must admit I'm going to by one soon.... ;)
Title: Re: #09:2012.10.17 San Francisco, CA - Bill Graham Civic Aud, USA # SPOILER AHEAD #
Post by: sweetsurrender on October 25, 2012, 05:15:51 AM
sweetsurrender, i don't really know much about sound, i take for granted what the experts say. But mp3 is alright for me and I wish to thank you for your care and attention. Spending time and stealing even a tiny bit of attention from fully enjoying the show, only to please us is a big thing in my book.

vgonis, you're always so kind in your words. It's true that taping does rob you of some precious moments of enjoyment.  My focus couldn't entirely be on Mark and the performance. I had to follow him around with the camera. I dared not make too much noise or hoped that people around me didn't either.  It's a bit of a sacrifice, but at the end it's a worthy trade off.  I got to share the recordings with other fans and most important of all they will forever be treasured and preserved.  :thumbsup :clap