A Mark In Time
Previous Tours => 2012 Mark Knopfler & Bob Dylan Tour => Topic started by: herlock on November 02, 2012, 11:59:25 AM
-
I find it great that these two songs, which were my favorites the moment I listened to the album, but which I felt had potential for further development, are precisely the two songs that MK has chosen to develop live... Listening to Saskatoon and SF 18th October makes me feel that DS is back, don't you think these live versions would have fit well in the setlist of the OES tour, next to PONO and Iron Hand ? :)
Too bad they alternate, like TR and TOL in 92, I only took hood seats for one 2013 concert (Paris) and I would need more to get a chance to hear these 2 gems live...
Oh an btw don't you think that I used to could Is reminiscent of two young lovers ? Not my cup of tea, but energetic and well executed...
-
I do enjoy them very much too. One thing that annoys me about Crows is that the solo's over just as I'm getting into it! :(
IUTC stats exactly the same way as TYL used to on the OES tour. Personally I feel it lacks that little bit without the harmonica but on the album Mark gave the Kim too much room; it is Marks' album after all! Maybe Guy could have used some synths here?
-
Yes Crows solo should not stop... The Saskatoon one is the longest, very energetic, and well recorded... My favorite so far
-
Yes Crows solo should not stop... The Saskatoon one is the longest, very energetic, and well recorded... My favorite so far
What is it, 5 seconds longer! ;D Any differences between the solo's in length appear negligible. As you say, it should never stop!
-
What's PONO? Ah, these abbreviations ... I just don't have the time to go through all the Dire Straits tracklists all the time ... ::)
-
What's PONO? Ah, these abbreviations ... I just don't have the time to go through all the Dire Straits tracklists all the time ... ::)
Planet of New Orleans !
-
It's ridiculous to alternate YTC and KOG ... Both songs should be played every evening.
But it's Mark Knopfler's style.
For some reason, he tends to reject his best tunes and loves to play weak, overplayed and boring tunes instead.
Privateering is not a bad album but there are very few gems or potential live gems.
Redbud Tree disappeared after Vancouver (banned by US customs ? )
Submariner : never heard.
YTC / KOG : ridiculous swap. Don't tell me it's because he has only 60 minutes left. No excuse when you play DWB, SFSL, IUTC, P and CBC every night :disbelief
-
It's ridiculous to alternate YTC and KOG ... Both songs should be played every evening.
But it's Mark Knopfler's style.
For some reason, he tends to reject his best tunes and loves to play weak, overplayed and boring tunes instead.
Privateering is not a bad album but there are very few gems or potential live gems.
Redbud Tree disappeared after Vancouver (banned by US customs ? )
Submariner : never heard.
YTC / KOG : ridiculous swap. Don't tell me it's because he has only 60 minutes left. No excuse when you play DWB, SFSL, IUTC, P and CBC every night :disbelief
Agreed.
Never understood why SFSL even exists.
P and CBC are nice but played like on the album.
IUTC... On the one hand I am pleased by it because it is a good show case that Mark still have energy; on the other hand, I was never a fan of this "two young lovers" kind of song... And the album version with harmonica is better.
Dwb... Well nobody likes it but I do (maybe because I am French and I like History). Overplayed, though...
Ytc and kog are the only ones which outshine the studio versions... Alternating them is therefore irritating indeed. Like TOL and TR in 92.
-
I tend to agree with you guys; he has chosen for once to play many new songs at his concerts but they happen to be ones that are, on the whole boring, unimaginative and too similar to the album versions! There are too many other songs we would rather have heard than the easy to play sleepers he's going through night after night.
-
I tend to agree with you guys; he has chosen for once to play many new songs at his concerts but they happen to be ones that are, on the whole boring, unimaginative and too similar to the album versions! There are too many other songs we would rather have heard than the easy to play sleepers he's going through night after night.
Still, we have KOG and YTC.
And I'm not hostile to having P, CBC and IUTC even if they are similar to the album. I even miss redbud tree ! I don't miss you blues, though :)
Would have been nice to have dream of a drown submariner... With 20 new songs it is har to please everybody. There is always the one potentially great live song that never gets played... Silvertown blues... You don't know you're born... 5.15am... Punish the monkey... So far from the Clyde.... An today, dream of... !
-
Oh...all the songs you mention just make my mouth water! Just the very thought... :think
You can add Bluebird to the list too. I think that could use a longer end solo. I'm sure Hot or What could be turned into something nice; it's a very good song but suffers from far too much harmonica taking over from Mark with a gorgeous LP sound somewhere in the distant background for about five seconds. :smack Rearrangement needed and a good song will emerge, I'm sure of it!
-
Oh...all the songs you mention just make my mouth water! Just the very thought... :think
You can add Bluebird to the list too. I think that could use a longer end solo. I'm sure Hot or What could be turned into something nice; it's a very good song but suffers from far too much harmonica taking over from Mark with a gorgeous LP sound somewhere in the distant background for about five seconds. :smack Rearrangement needed and a good song will emerge, I'm sure of it!
I love that LP in Hot or What - it almost sounds like a sax! 8)
Herlock's choice of songs sound fine to me too! ;)
-
Oh...all the songs you mention just make my mouth water! Just the very thought... :think
You can add Bluebird to the list too. I think that could use a longer end solo. I'm sure Hot or What could be turned into something nice; it's a very good song but suffers from far too much harmonica taking over from Mark with a gorgeous LP sound somewhere in the distant background for about five seconds. :smack Rearrangement needed and a good song will emerge, I'm sure of it!
dmg, Agreed with you on Bluebird. It's such a beautiful song that should be play lived perhaps 2013. Blood and water is another great one too. :thumbsup with extended solo of course.
-
My gosh, 5:15 am live... I can just imagine it. A gradual build up to a short guitar solo after the line "...to mine the mother lode". Then, things get quiet for the verse "They gather 'round the glass...", and a quiet guitar solo begins after he sings "5:15 am" for the last time. In Tunnel of Love fashion, the extended solo slowly builds back up as the drums kick back in at full throttle for a dramatic finish.
-
Oh...all the songs you mention just make my mouth water! Just the very thought... :think
You can add Bluebird to the list too. I think that could use a longer end solo. I'm sure Hot or What could be turned into something nice; it's a very good song but suffers from far too much harmonica taking over from Mark with a gorgeous LP sound somewhere in the distant background for about five seconds. :smack Rearrangement needed and a good song will emerge, I'm sure of it!
That's Mark for ya'..he likes to throw a 'tease' out there ...and fade it away...I used to scream "NOOOOO!" at the end of "Where do you think you're going". Personally I would love to hear "Blood and Water" and "Dream of the drowned submariner" live..but I'm not sure if a live cover of Submariner could approach the studio version..too much could be lost.
-
Hee, hee! You guys make me chuckle.
He doesn't play the songs you want, he doesn't play the arrangements you want and he doesn't play the solos you want. But ... he's putting on a show that is getting positive comments pretty well all over, he's not the headliner, so he can relax a little, and he can play what he likes, how he likes. Sounds a pretty good package to me. Give the guy a break.
And it's horses for courses, guys. You're getting a fair number of new songs, which is no bad thing. And remember ..... what you don't like, others will.
-
Hee, hee! You guys make me chuckle.
He doesn't play the songs you want, he doesn't play the arrangements you want and he doesn't play the solos you want. But ... he's putting on a show that is getting positive comments pretty well all over, he's not the headliner, so he can relax a little, and he can play what he likes, how he likes. Sounds a pretty good package to me. Give the guy a break.
And it's horses for courses, guys. You're getting a fair number of new songs, which is no bad thing. And remember ..... what you don't like, others will.
Totally agree, twm! ;)
-
Not at all. Comment away.
-
Hee, hee! You guys make me chuckle.
He doesn't play the songs you want, he doesn't play the arrangements you want and he doesn't play the solos you want. But ... he's putting on a show that is getting positive comments pretty well all over, he's not the headliner, so he can relax a little, and he can play what he likes, how he likes. Sounds a pretty good package to me. Give the guy a break.
And it's horses for courses, guys. You're getting a fair number of new songs, which is no bad thing. And remember ..... what you don't like, others will.
you are saying that people can't even comment ?
He's just saying that there is no pleasing us...which..there isn't ;D
-
Exactly! "The boy dun good" (as they say in certain circles) and you seem so grudging.
-
I think that both songs have to be played all dates, not the one excluding the other, two great songs must be always in the set...
Its a pitty but as you mention, looks the way he has to please us its not like the way we would like...
;D
-
What I meant is
I am sure 99% of us would NOT be pleased by a Telegraph or Tunnel or Sultans studio version
completely missing the final solo
That's what has happened with both Yon Two Crows and Kingdom of Gold unfortunately
Things like CE and MFN didn't really have outro solo's either on the albums (just play outs) but Mark played some toward the end when live. We're so used to hearing them with solos now, it's easy to forget the originals! ;D
-
What I meant is
I am sure 99% of us would NOT be pleased by a Telegraph or Tunnel or Sultans studio version
completely missing the final solo
That's what has happened with both Yon Two Crows and Kingdom of Gold unfortunately
Regarding TOL : I don't need the outro and I don't need the song.
The 10 minute intro is good enough. :lol
The greatest live experience would be a mix of TOl intro & TR outro :wave
-
What I meant is
I am sure 99% of us would NOT be pleased by a Telegraph or Tunnel or Sultans studio version
completely missing the final solo
That's what has happened with both Yon Two Crows and Kingdom of Gold unfortunately
Things like CE and MFN didn't really have outro solo's either on the albums (just play outs) but Mark played some toward the end when live. We're so used to hearing them with solos now, it's easy to forget the originals! ;D
The studio version of Sultans is great. Clean, plain, simple, this is where the whole story started ! The solo is short but enjoyable - more than current live versions IMHO, which are only studio version with less energy...
The studio version of TR is great (albeit a bit cold), and does not miss the outro solo - only that it is fading out instead of coming to a definite conclusion.
CE live version is insane :) but it would have sounded strange on the album, the studio version is not bad either.
As for MFN I think that the studio version is the very best version, no live version could come close. Maybe Montserrat '97 and Wembley'85... but the intro with Sting is only good on the album !
-
What I meant is
I am sure 99% of us would NOT be pleased by a Telegraph or Tunnel or Sultans studio version
completely missing the final solo
That's what has happened with both Yon Two Crows and Kingdom of Gold unfortunately
Regarding TOL : I don't need the outro and I don't need the song.
The 10 minute intro is good enough. :lol
That's not Alchemy, that's blasphemy !!!
-
One thing is sure... the blue Pensa will make the show next tour and I hope he'll use it on TR ! the sound of this guitar is just tremendous ! I'm shivering every time I hear KOG on this tour ! sublime
-
One thing is sure... the blue Pensa will make the show next tour and I hope he'll use it on TR ! the sound of this guitar is just tremendous ! I'm shivering every time I hear KOG on this tour ! sublime
Isn't it just? Sounds wonderful. I though at first a little like his black Pensa-Suhr only a little more "pure" if you know what I mean. It has a bit more punch than his recent Pensa's.
-
One thing is sure... the blue Pensa will make the show next tour and I hope he'll use it on TR ! the sound of this guitar is just tremendous ! I'm shivering every time I hear KOG on this tour ! sublime
Oh God... yes, if only... that would mean TR is back, and hopefully as good and fast as in 2005 but with a better sound... and a proper guitar solo after "rolling river", not just a karaoke mode like in 2008/2010...
There were 2 songs that dropped in energy in 2008, which were WII and TR; TR now back to the 2005 level, with additional violin interlude; now, could TR be back to this level in 2013 ? and could this finally lead to a DVD ? I'm dreaming...
-
One thing is sure... the blue Pensa will make the show next tour and I hope he'll use it on TR ! the sound of this guitar is just tremendous ! I'm shivering every time I hear KOG on this tour ! sublime
Oh God... yes, if only... that would mean TR is back, and hopefully as good and fast as in 2005 but with a better sound... and a proper guitar solo after "rolling river", not just a karaoke mode like in 2008/2010...
There were 2 songs that dropped in energy in 2008, which were WII and TR; TR now back to the 2005 level, with additional violin interlude; now, could TR be back to this level in 2013 ? and could this finally lead to a DVD ? I'm dreaming...
Waken up my friend!
Now you are awake, I can assure you there will be no DVD of any new show. If 2005 was the last time Mark could play TR at a decent level, with the greatest of respect what makes you think he can play it just as well 8 years later when he's playing a 70 minute gig now with only a couple of very short solo's?
Personally, I think the song will be dropped; this is why he dropped it from the Madrid download and why Speedway was dropped from this tour. Speedway will be the showcase finale next year IMHO.
-
Waken up my friend!
Now you are awake, I can assure you there will be no DVD of any new show. If 2005 was the last time Mark could play TR at a decent level, with the greatest of respect what makes you think he can play it just as well 8 years later when he's playing a 70 minute gig now with only a couple of very short solo's?
Personally, I think the song will be dropped; this is why he dropped it from the Madrid download and why Speedway was dropped from this tour. Speedway will be the showcase finale next year IMHO.
Well, if Mark could improve on WII, why not on TR ? The song demands a high level of concentration, but I'm sure he can do it.
TR in 2005 was not "decent", it was outstanding, the best since 1983 IMHO; and 2010 was not bad, it had a lot of emotion and clarity into it..
Besides, some end solos in 2010 were quite amazing. A bit slower than in Lyon 2005, sure, but Paris 2010 was indeed very good. I am more complaining about the lack of short solo after "rolling rover", but this is easy to restore... and Mark seems in the mood ! so why not ?
And why not "Alchemy II" 30 years after Alchemy ? Now that Mark's solo career is very mature and has a lot to say, why not ?
Even without TR, a DVD featuring WII/SAN/WAM/HFB/MT/BR/PTTE/YTC/KOG/IUTC would be outstanding, don't you think so ?
-
Waken up my friend!
Now you are awake, I can assure you there will be no DVD of any new show. If 2005 was the last time Mark could play TR at a decent level, with the greatest of respect what makes you think he can play it just as well 8 years later when he's playing a 70 minute gig now with only a couple of very short solo's?
Personally, I think the song will be dropped; this is why he dropped it from the Madrid download and why Speedway was dropped from this tour. Speedway will be the showcase finale next year IMHO.
Well, if Mark could improve on WII, why not on TR ? The song demands a high level of concentration, but I'm sure he can do it.
TR in 2005 was not "decent", it was outstanding, the best since 1983 IMHO; and 2010 was not bad, it had a lot of emotion and clarity into it..
Besides, some end solos in 2010 were quite amazing. A bit slower than in Lyon 2005, sure, but Paris 2010 was indeed very good. I am more complaining about the lack of short solo after "rolling rover", but this is easy to restore... and Mark seems in the mood ! so why not ?
And why not "Alchemy II" 30 years after Alchemy ? Now that Mark's solo career is very mature and has a lot to say, why not ?
Even without TR, a DVD featuring WII/SAN/WAM/HFB/MT/BR/PTTE/YTC/KOG/IUTC would be outstanding, don't you think so ?
I think it's far too late to release a live DVD. The time to do it was 2001.
WII has only been sharpened up a bit but is it really better than 2001 versions? I don't think so. It's now better than it was on other tours and sounding quite nice but let's face facts here, the end solo is probably under a minute long and Mike's whistle is annoying on this all through as well.
IUTC is pointless. Doesn't work as it is and sounds the same all the time. Very boring.
Marbletown...zzz. Now I'm the one who's asleep!
I'm sorry if anyone wants a live DVD from the 2013 tour but I don't because I want to preserve Marks' reputation and have only the best performances officially recorded for historical reference. People in the future can look back at Alchemy and say without doubt that he was phenomenal and I want to preserve that.
-
I think it's far too late to release a live DVD. The time to do it was 2001.
WII has only been sharpened up a bit but is it really better than 2001 versions? I don't think so. It's now better than it was on other tours and sounding quite nice but let's face facts here, the end solo is probably under a minute long and Mike's whistle is annoying on this all through as well.
IUTC is pointless. Doesn't work as it is and sounds the same all the time. Very boring.
Marbletown...zzz. Now I'm the one who's asleep!
I'm sorry if anyone wants a live DVD from the 2013 tour but I don't because I want to preserve Marks' reputation and have only the best performances officially recorded for historical reference. People in the future can look back at Alchemy and say without doubt that he was phenomenal and I want to preserve that.
On WII: I can agree with you that Mike is ennoying. I would rather he takes a rest. Appart from that I think it is better than in 2001, where the synth and even the violin did not quite work. 2005 was nice but very simple, no violin, too bad.
IUTC: I'm no big fan actually, I just like its energy.
Marbletown: I respect you opinion, but I think you are pretty alone here. I think it is marvelous, an example that Mark can do something different, only on accoustic guitar, with plenty of variations... a gem in Mark's solo career, I'm so angry they did not include it on the bonus CD from the deluxe version... this and WII... would have prefered the fake version of the Bonus CD that circulated, it was perfect... we already have a perfect WAM from the TRD Bonus disc of 2002, full of energy, with John Illsley and Chris White !
Alchemy: Well I think people could watch Alchemy (1983) and Alchemy II (2013) and enjoy both... anyway, I thought you did not like Alchemy ? ;)
-
I love Alchemy! My opinion has been that I would have preferred it if they had waited for a live CD from the BIA tour instead.
Mark would have to make a DVD better than Alchemy or there would be no point and that would not be possible now I'm afraid.
-
I love Alchemy! My opinion has been that I would have preferred it if they had waited for a live CD from the BIA tour instead.
Mark would have to make a DVD better than Alchemy or there would be no point and that would not be possible now I'm afraid.
Well, although I (slightly) prefer TOL from the BIA tour than from the LOG tour (smoother, longer, nice break), overall I think, if you are concerned about Mark's reputation, that it might be better that what stays in History is not those overused synth & keyboards, these overdriven-to-death drums, guy's "sound effect"... and those massively overdriven guitar sounds... :) Alchemy is more sober, hence fitting more with our times that the typical 80's sound of the BIA tour (as good as it is, I love it too, don't get me wrong).
-
I love Alchemy! My opinion has been that I would have preferred it if they had waited for a live CD from the BIA tour instead.
Mark would have to make a DVD better than Alchemy or there would be no point and that would not be possible now I'm afraid.
Well, although I (slightly) prefer TOL from the BIA tour than from the LOG tour (smoother, longer, nice break), overall I think, if you are concerned about Mark's reputation, that it might be better that what stays in History is not those overused synth & keyboards, these overdriven-to-death drums, guy's "sound effect"... and those massively overdriven guitar sounds... :) Alchemy is more sober, hence fitting more with our times that the typical 80's sound of the BIA tour (as good as it is, I love it too, don't get me wrong).
So what we already have then, i.e. Alchemy, is fine! The sound of the BIA tour captures an era; the era when DS were at their peak in terms of popularity and professionalism. I don't really hear much difference between LOG and BIA tours anyway. Both have TW on drums and two sets of keyboards...
Anyway, I love anything Mark does. I just love it to a different extent! ;D
-
I love Alchemy! My opinion has been that I would have preferred it if they had waited for a live CD from the BIA tour instead.
Mark would have to make a DVD better than Alchemy or there would be no point and that would not be possible now I'm afraid.
Well, although I (slightly) prefer TOL from the BIA tour than from the LOG tour (smoother, longer, nice break), overall I think, if you are concerned about Mark's reputation, that it might be better that what stays in History is not those overused synth & keyboards, these overdriven-to-death drums, guy's "sound effect"... and those massively overdriven guitar sounds... :) Alchemy is more sober, hence fitting more with our times that the typical 80's sound of the BIA tour (as good as it is, I love it too, don't get me wrong).
So what we already have then, i.e. Alchemy, is fine! The sound of the BIA tour captures an era; the era when DS were at their peak in terms of popularity and professionalism. I don't really hear much difference between LOG and BIA tours anyway. Both have TW on drums and two sets of keyboards...
Anyway, I love anything Mark does. I just love it to a different extent! ;D
Same here ! ;)
-
Waken up my friend!
Now you are awake, I can assure you there will be no DVD of any new show. If 2005 was the last time Mark could play TR at a decent level, with the greatest of respect what makes you think he can play it just as well 8 years later when he's playing a 70 minute gig now with only a couple of very short solo's?
Personally, I think the song will be dropped; this is why he dropped it from the Madrid download and why Speedway was dropped from this tour. Speedway will be the showcase finale next year IMHO.
Well, if Mark could improve on WII, why not on TR ? The song demands a high level of concentration, but I'm sure he can do it.
TR in 2005 was not "decent", it was outstanding, the best since 1983 IMHO; and 2010 was not bad, it had a lot of emotion and clarity into it..
Besides, some end solos in 2010 were quite amazing. A bit slower than in Lyon 2005, sure, but Paris 2010 was indeed very good. I am more complaining about the lack of short solo after "rolling rover", but this is easy to restore... and Mark seems in the mood ! so why not ?
And why not "Alchemy II" 30 years after Alchemy ? Now that Mark's solo career is very mature and has a lot to say, why not ?
Even without TR, a DVD featuring WII/SAN/WAM/HFB/MT/BR/PTTE/YTC/KOG/IUTC would be outstanding, don't you think so ?
I think it's far too late to release a live DVD. The time to do it was 2001.
WII has only been sharpened up a bit but is it really better than 2001 versions? I don't think so. It's now better than it was on other tours and sounding quite nice but let's face facts here, the end solo is probably under a minute long and Mike's whistle is annoying on this all through as well.
IUTC is pointless. Doesn't work as it is and sounds the same all the time. Very boring.
Marbletown...zzz. Now I'm the one who's asleep!
I'm sorry if anyone wants a live DVD from the 2013 tour but I don't because I want to preserve Marks' reputation and have only the best performances officially recorded for historical reference. People in the future can look back at Alchemy and say without doubt that he was phenomenal and I want to preserve that.
Sorry but I don't see how Mark's reputation could be affected by a new DVD release. Mark has evolved, he's now different, both as a musician and a person. Why compare if we can have the best of both? Besides all that I don't see Mark only as a guitar player.
A live DVD would be great in all aspects, especially for us who don't live in the touring area.
Now, is it gonna happen? I don't think so...
-
One thing is sure... the blue Pensa will make the show next tour and I hope he'll use it on TR ! the sound of this guitar is just tremendous ! I'm shivering every time I hear KOG on this tour ! sublime
yes absolutely
I would have already ordered one if my wrists were not broken
I would order one if I wasn't broke... lol
-
One thing is sure... the blue Pensa will make the show next tour and I hope he'll use it on TR ! the sound of this guitar is just tremendous ! I'm shivering every time I hear KOG on this tour ! sublime
yes absolutely
I would have already ordered one if my wrists were not broken
I would order one if I wasn't broke... lol
at least you can fix your problem in the future
Sorry if my comment was somehow inappropriate, I didn't know it was a permanent condition. I had a knee injury that still prevents me from playing tennis at the level I used to, amongst other things. I apologise and wish you all the best.