A Mark In Time

Previous Tours => 2012 Mark Knopfler & Bob Dylan Tour => Topic started by: jbaent on November 22, 2012, 12:17:56 PM

Title: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: jbaent on November 22, 2012, 12:17:56 PM
Last night was the last show of the Mark Knopfler & Dylan tour and I would like to share some thoughts with you, and of course to hear your opinions about the whole experience.

Firstly, being positive, this tour, as the Fall 2011 one were good chance to see MK performing live with out from his tours. I know that he just released Privateering, but the Privateering tour is the one that will start in 2013, so its great he did that because it was an extra that did his job making the waiting until 2013 less hard.

Secondly, I hope that it doesnt happen again, at least in the same terms. Its not the first time MK tours with someone else, he did between 1987 and 1989 with Eric Clapton, and in 2006 with Emmylou Harris, and both times was something really special from the early beguining. With Clapton, MK was part of his band, playing in all songs and playing one or two of his own songs, so a great experience. With Emmylou Harris it was a whole concert together, playing songs of MK, DS, EH and the songs from his duets album, a nice experience too. But with Bob Dylan, it was two different concerts and the fact that they played together wasn
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on November 22, 2012, 01:51:38 PM
I was going to start a thread like this but didn't know what to add without making everyone get on my case - AGAIN!! ;)

First of all I must agree Julio that to be part of the band like with EC in the 80s would be great and I hope that this sort of double-header idea doesn't happen again;  there are no winners when both sets of fans only get half a gig.

I'll start off by saying that I think the set, in all it's forms, was nothing short of terrible and some of Marks early performances were embarrassing which is probably due to a lack of concentration caused by the casual set they were playing.

WII was pretty good this year with some improv during the outro but then he decided to drop some lyrics and it all started to sound a little less pacy and full of gaps.  Sounds weary, like he's out of breath and not able to sing that fast any more!

CBC was much better than last year but it's the same every gig so...

Privateering:  again, same every gig.

KOG:  decent solo, albeit short.  Very boring, repetitive song.

YTC:  Very good song, nice solo.

IUTC:  same every gig.  Jim's chance to shine!

SFSL:  vast improvement on a song I've never liked.  Great solo from MK and drums from IT.

DWB:  same as ever.

Knoxville:  nice bluegrass alternative.  The "joke" ending always found favour with the audience.

Band intro:  some new jokes!  Some old ones too. ::)

HFB:  more misses than hits this time around.  A definite step down from last year;  really struggling with these faster ones now.

HA:  identical every time.  Lovely song but pointless in a concert.

BIA:  quite nice actually.  Slightly better than last year but I'm getting a little bored now.  The set did need this song though.

Marbletown:  I've only listened to one version from this tour.  That's enough for me.

SFA:  for Bob's fans.  Does Mark think we like this too?

I haven't enjoyed this tour at all.  I was thrilled by the energy on last years' tour but the lack of guitar fuelled songs, Mark's disappointing vocal and shaky playing has left me totally unimpressed by this tour.  It's not as if the set was great either;  far too many new songs in such a short time, and he could have chosen better new ones too because most of them sound exactly the same at every concert.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on November 22, 2012, 02:17:06 PM
Strange to read your remarks about the songs, dmg, because the one you like, BIA, is the only song I don't like very much at the moment and I feel my toes curling when it's being played!    The rest are fine, especially Marbletown!     ;D      8)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Rkd on November 22, 2012, 03:36:45 PM
I attended two of the NA concerts and have been thinking about them since
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on November 22, 2012, 05:00:30 PM
Courage is a strange commodity
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on November 22, 2012, 05:15:16 PM
I think Mark and the band have done a great job on this tour and, personally, I have enjoyed the shows I have heard much more than those from 2011 and, apart from one or two instances, I haven't detected less energetic performances.   On the contrary, Sonny Liston was far better played than before and it particularly showcased Mark's guitaring skills - there was really nowhere to hide!   Then there was Marbletown!    What can I say, except fantastic -  it just gets better and better!    Oh and KOG!  What a solo - it was definitely goosebumps time!

I loved all of the Privateering songs - it was just a pity we couldn't have heard a larger number of them, but with such a short set, it would have been impossible.   I would have loved to hear Radio City Serenade, Seattle and Dream of the Drowned Submariner, but maybe we will some other time in the future!   

I feel so proud of Mark and the band, especially compared to the manufactured stuff we are fed these days.  This is real music and, although I have criticised Bob on occasion, so is his!   

Reading Guy's diaries has actually made me feel exhausted!   All of that travelling long distances through the night, time changes, irregular and sometimes unhealthy meals and then having to perform most nights would make anyone feel tired, but they do a magnificent job nevertheless - and so does Bob and his band and all of the crew members.   We must not forget either, that a lot of the band members of both sides, including Bob and Mark, are not spring chickens anymore and it's easy to sit at home and criticise!

Here's to the 2013 tour - I can't wait!     :wave
 
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on November 22, 2012, 05:31:32 PM

I loved all of the Privateering songs - it was just a pity we couldn't have heard a larger number of them, but with such a short set, it would have been impossible.   I would have loved to hear Radio City Serenade, Seattle and Dream of the Drowned Submariner, but maybe we will some other time in the future!     

These songs you mention would have been great, but instead we got the easy fillers like IUTC, RT, MYB and HA. 

Now ask yourselves, if I had to play you one version of each of these new songs could you tell me which concert it was from:

CBC, P, IUTC, HA, RT, MYB?

I doubt it very much.  I've downloaded every bootleg and the only way to tell the difference is by the sound quality! :lol

Also, last years HFB was much better than 2010's versions with new licks in there - very inventive! :thumbsup  This year he isn't even managing to make these new licks work any more, never mind being inventive. :thumbsdown
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on November 22, 2012, 07:35:23 PM

I loved all of the Privateering songs - it was just a pity we couldn't have heard a larger number of them, but with such a short set, it would have been impossible.   I would have loved to hear Radio City Serenade, Seattle and Dream of the Drowned Submariner, but maybe we will some other time in the future!     


Now ask yourselves, if I had to play you one version of each of these new songs could you tell me which concert it was from:

CBC, P, IUTC, HA, RT, MYB?


Of course, I wouldn't, but the same goes for Bob's songs!  For example,  if I played you a version of any of his songs, could you say which concert it was from?  I don't expect so!

Regarding HFB, I actually like all of the versions I have from the concerts I attended from 2010, as much as and probably more than the 2011 ones - and I certainly WOULD be able to pick out the version from Bournemouth - it is especially distinctive and probably my favourite of all !    ;)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on November 22, 2012, 08:10:28 PM

I loved all of the Privateering songs - it was just a pity we couldn't have heard a larger number of them, but with such a short set, it would have been impossible.   I would have loved to hear Radio City Serenade, Seattle and Dream of the Drowned Submariner, but maybe we will some other time in the future!     


Now ask yourselves, if I had to play you one version of each of these new songs could you tell me which concert it was from:

CBC, P, IUTC, HA, RT, MYB?


Of course, I wouldn't, but the same goes for Bob's songs!  For example,  if I played you a version of any of his songs, could you say which concert it was from?  I don't expect so!

Regarding HFB, I actually like all of the versions I have from the concerts I attended from 2010, as much as and probably more than the 2011 ones - and I certainly WOULD be able to pick out the version from Bournemouth - it is especially distinctive and probably my favourite of all !    ;)

Sorry, I maybe wasn't clear but I only meant the songs in the list.  HFB is always distinctive! ;) ;D
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on November 22, 2012, 08:24:11 PM
I didn't realise it was an IQ test!    :lol    :hmm

I meant the songs in the list too!    My reference to HFB was in reply to the comments in your final paragraph.   :)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on November 22, 2012, 08:28:49 PM
I didn't realise it was an IQ test!    :lol    :hmm

I meant the songs in the list too!    My reference to HFB was in reply to the comments in your final paragraph.   :)

Sorry.  I forgot I had put that one in. :-[
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Rolleyway Man on November 22, 2012, 09:46:39 PM
Blimey. Some serious over-analysis going on in this thread!

I have never had any complaint about Mark's setlists and never will. I simply enjoy the shows for what they are. Whether he plays a set made up entirely of Dire Straits songs or solo material or a mixture of both, I honestly couldn't care less because, such is the consistent high quality of his work, I can honestly say he has never released a song that I don't really like. The only thing I am especially keen to hear is new material, and considering the limited time for Mark's set on these last couple of tours, there have been plenty of new songs on this occasion.

Mark is a great performer who directs all of the focus of his gigs on the music, and he has an astonishing group of musicians with which to perform that music. The musical chemistry between them is second to none and you simply won't hear a better band than them - anywhere. And of course they are aided by amazing technicians who really KNOW how to get the best possible sound out of a venue, which is more than I can say for Dylan's crew. Mark's voice is stronger than ever and seems to improve with every album and tour. Not sure where the idea that his voice was weak on this tour came from. And I actually think his guitar playing is also better than it ever was previously, largely because he's more subtle with it now so there's more emphasis on quality of tone.

Without wishing to start a fight, possibly resulting in a painful incident involving a pineapple, I do think people need to be a little more grateful that Mark is still performing, and still capable of performing more than effectively. And he has the best band on the planet playing with him to help him do that.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on November 22, 2012, 10:37:21 PM
I must say that we are a very special collection of people. MK is our centerpoint, but we all have a different view and expectations from him. I must admit that not following as close as many of you his live output, and suddenly being exposed to so many live recordings, was a shock for me. The reason? I had as reference the older recordings (up to 1996) and the actual studio recordings. When you listen to live recordings without the rest of the visual experience, you tend to miss a big part of the fun. I have only seen him once in 2008 and the exiting part was actually seeing him play the songs. I was ready to forgive him any mistake,and I would probably never notice one, because I was going with the music in my head. It is easy now, to sit back and listen to all these recordings from the comfort of my chair, and be quite careful about all these mistakes.And believe me, I even made some comments about his voice in 2011. I also had reservations about the obvious downplay of the guitar in his songs. But as always, the album was a whole different thing, the new live interpretations another, and the hopes we have yet another.  I don'tlike the sound of Dylan's voice anymore, and the half MK show would be the only reason to attend.  But I feel lucky that we have the recordings, even if some of them are going to be a one time listening.
So I think that for the past and the decisions we can not influence, we must get what we are offered and say our opinions about the future.  So I hope MK plays with a few new bands, I would really like to see him collaborate with Damon Alburn or Darren Hayman.

And since after reading what I have written up to here, I can't find the point I was trying to make, I stop now.   
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: communique on November 23, 2012, 03:11:35 AM
I agree with everything that Rolley Man has said 100%. Right on the money. I saw two shows this tour, in Toronto and Montreal, and I can tell you that the quality of Mark's performance has not diminished whatsoever, infact he and the band are better than ever. It is easy to critisize the quality of a performance if your are only listening to a bootleg recording with terrible quality. (no distrespect to the tapers, but lets face it the quality of these recordings suck). The setlist was excellent in my opinion. Of course you are not going to hear every song you would like to hear, but I'm like Rolley Man, anything MK does is brilliant in my opinion. My only negative comment of this tour is that it was with Bob, which of course made the set too short, and there were far too many distractions during Mark's set because most of the crowd were there for Bob and not Mark. I can't wait for the RAH in May because I can tell you that it is going to kick ass.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: joanzimm on November 23, 2012, 03:46:29 AM
MK's playing might be different than it was 20 years ago, but that doesn't mean it's worse.  I think his voice sounds better than ever.  IMHO he just keeps getting better in every respect.  With over 200 (300?) songs, he can't please everybody so he chooses to please himself.  That's what he should do.  If he wasn't pleasing himself, he wouldn't still be doing this.  Personally, I don't know how he keeps up with the tour schedule.  It makes me tired just reading about it.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on November 23, 2012, 05:06:41 AM
I'll limit my comments on the tour but will add a bit about what this tour and the last might "do" for Mark:

1. Attending a show is a different experience from listening to a recording.

2. I can't comment on the earlier shows on the tour but the two later shows I attended showed a Bob in better voice than other shows in recent years - still raspy but getting behind the lyrics in an engaged way.

3. Mark, at the two shows I attended, did not vary much in either set list or performance and I enjoyed both. It was very welcome to hear some new songs live.

4. Some comments I read and/or heard about Mark said he lacked stage presence but, for me, this was an ensemble performance by all the guys on stage and Mark gave them as much space as the shorter set list allowed and I found this admirable. Had he cut the band members' contributions in favour of his own solos, perhaps the comments would not have been made but it would have been less palatable for me - maybe not for you.

5. Mark was both brave and absolutely right to concentrate on his recent work and not to trade on his DS reputation. Clearly, some members of the audience (not just Bob fans at that) had expected a "rock'n'roll" performance from him. Maybe this did mean he was more cautious in his own playing but I would suggest "more controlled and focussed" as appropriate adjectives. In contrast, Dylan did play a lot of his older "stuff" but these were in completely new arrangements and, may I suggest, this is perhaps what Mark may do in years to come - that is, play a few more DS songs but in radically new arrangements.

6. Also, despite playing a 15-song set most nights, Dylan played 57 different songs on the tour (excluding the nebulous opening instrumental). Since Mark's set was 10-songs long or thereabouts, he would have had to play 38 different songs to match that. Perhaps, again, that is something that he might attempt on future tours. I feel it would bring an additional edge to his performance, a step outside of his comfort zone. Of course, you lot (the "get-a-lifers" out there) would have to accept that the standard of performance might vary a bit from night to night but it would be a fair trade-off for a bit more variety, IMO.

There, I have kept it briefer than I might.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on November 23, 2012, 08:57:08 AM
Many thanks, twm!   I hope you have had/are having a good time in the US!    :)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: pete_w on November 23, 2012, 09:13:09 AM
Hi all. First post here.

I've been following the tour via this forum, Dylan's forum, Guy Fletcher's page and by listening to various bootlegs.

I think Mark did an amazing job out of the 70+ minutes he had to his disposal. The band was very tight, and you could sense Mark was working harder because he had to win the Dylan fans over. But I still think he could add more energy and take more risks.

The highlight for me, of what I've listened to, was the first 15 seconds of Used To Could from the last show. Those seconds of guitar tinkering made me smile from ear to ear.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on November 23, 2012, 09:44:58 PM
twm, your posts make me smile, cunningly!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Pottel on November 24, 2012, 12:26:49 AM
It is easy to critisize the quality of a performance if your are only listening to a bootleg recording with terrible quality. (no distrespect to the tapers, but lets face it the quality of these recordings suck).
that sentence is BS.
the tapers are getting better and use better equipment with every new tour. people like hide, soomlos, Bach, they record a darn fine show. better then any soundboard, as it has the audience on it..
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: sweetsurrender on November 24, 2012, 09:18:04 AM
Being able to attend 4 shows this tour for me was such a memorable experience that I will forever cherish.  Two of those nights standing right in front of Mark and heard him play were undeniably the best moments in my life.  I have little else to say except a feeling of gratitude to Mark and his band for bringing so much happiness to me.  Most of the time I was so enthralled, any flaws in Mark's playing or singing simply evaded my mesmerised ears.  ( not that it matters anyway). 

Mark serves us fans best when it' s a complete full set.  That's my only complaint.  I didn't like the feeling of leaving the shows each night and felt like something was missing. ( not quite fulfilled).  The feeling of being at Mark's shows but was outnumbered by Dylan's fans was sort of eerie to me. I was happy with song selection from Privateering in this tour.  Although there are so many gems I wish Mark would dig up and play, I think Mark did his best in song choices to accomodate band members' showmanship in the short 70 minutes that they had.

All in all, it was a good tour albeit too short for the loyal fans.  So, please no more half a set show, because everybody loses! :thumbsdown

Seeing Dylan was quite a bonus for me.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: binone on November 24, 2012, 03:50:34 PM
Just one thing. Ian Thomas evolution. Last year was so lost that I missed Danny a lot.

This year, more into the band, looks brilliant.

See you soon, Mark
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: daveyray70 on November 24, 2012, 04:39:32 PM
I saw MK once on this tour and have seen him numerous times over the years. I thought he was fantastic; best I've heard him sound since the DS days. I agree he doesn't play guitar like he did in his heyday (really noticed a difference since his injury) but is still a wonderful player. The setlists are a disappointment, though. He's got a wonderful back catalog that has been largely ignored for years. That being said, playing the same set nightly does allow for perfection provided the players don't get bored. I'd love to see him again in '13 but a trip to Europe isn't in the cards.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: rosco on November 26, 2012, 04:55:27 PM
According to Billboard Boxscore (to w/e 1/12/2012) , only 2 Dylan/Knopf shows made the top 200 grossing gigs of the year so far.
Top grossing gig(no62) being ST Paul Minn, grossing  $602,645  with a crowd of 7'565 with a capacity of 9'850,  second at no67 was the Chicago gig with an attendance of 6'335 and with a capacity of 8'021. It grossed $532,301.
There may be some figures still to be released yet for the late November shows
 

Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on November 26, 2012, 09:00:50 PM
If you get any more attendance v. capacity figures, please pass them on.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on November 27, 2012, 03:03:39 AM
My conclusion is, if you add the songs from 2011 tour that werent played in 2012, you get your full setlist for 2013.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Al on November 27, 2012, 04:29:29 AM
Agree with Rolleyway Man, my feelings exactly! I had seats next to the stage for the first time, and the level of concentration on stage is unbelivable, i strongly suspect MK & the boys have a gift of telepathy & are reading each other's minds!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: xxFordiexx on November 27, 2012, 09:25:02 PM
I have to say Mark's voice is for the most part excellent more so now than 10 - 15 years ago. A comment regarding Mark's guitaring as " struggling to keep up with the fast songs " honestly must be barmy. He is playing a lot of songs with a much more complex style of playing these days imo. Speed is definitely not a problem and his songs these days allow so much freedom to play solos in many different ways. He is a genius and really is one of a kind. Long live the Legend.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Pottel on November 27, 2012, 11:22:02 PM
Hail hail indeed...
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: sweetsurrender on November 28, 2012, 07:26:24 AM
According to Billboard Boxscore (to w/e 1/12/2012) , only 2 Dylan/Knopf shows made the top 200 grossing gigs of the year so far.
Top grossing gig(no62) being ST Paul Minn, grossing  $602,645  with a crowd of 7'565 with a capacity of 9'850,  second at no67 was the Chicago gig with an attendance of 6'335 and with a capacity of 8'021. It grossed $532,301.
There may be some figures still to be released yet for the late November shows

I thought the show in Berekley should be one of the grossing gigs. As far as I know, it was completely sold out.  The capacity was 8,000 and ticket price was quite expensive.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: herlock on November 28, 2012, 11:27:17 AM
My conclusion is, if you add the songs from 2011 tour that werent played in 2012, you get your full setlist for 2013.
I really hope not, because the one and only song that does fall into this category is Speedway. So this would mean no SoS, no R&J (well this one I could live without ;)), no TR (!!), no Border Reiver, no Piper. An horrible perspective !
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on November 28, 2012, 11:53:18 AM
It is said that there are two types of driver on roads, both types impelled by words beginning with "sp" - some motivated by "speed" (the "go-faster" brigade) and others by "space" (concerned about stopping distances and the like).  Balancing the two is an important element in the skill of driving well.  Similarly ......

"Speed v. Space" seems to be a dilemma here, too. Balancing the two is also part of the art of perfromance.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 01, 2012, 12:53:56 PM
On the tour, Bob's singing, as ever, came in for a lot of criticism but also his piano playing. I described it as "wayward" and "eccentric". Others pointed out that he sometimes played in a different key to the band. Although it's the band's job to go wherever Bob takes them, this is not always easy.

Anyway, I thought you might like to hear "Spanish Is The Loving Tongue", the B-side of a 45 rpm single released in but recorded in 1970):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyG9MzZjXpY

It's  a lovely song, not written by Dylan, and don't you just love a name like Charles Badger Clark). There's a touch of Spanish in the song, too :  Mi amor, mi corazon".  Again, some rather eccentric piano playing but a version I always love to listen to. There is an inferior version on 1973's album "DYLAN" (no longer available on CD, I believe).

I was first aware of this song when I bought the 1964 paperback reprint of "A New Treasury of Folk Songs". Tom Glazer, who compiled the book, wrote: "My friend, Louis L'Amuor,  fine fellow, fine writer,  tells me he heard this in the Southwest many years ago. I heard it in the Northeast not so many years ago". (Louis L'Amour - another great name)

The tune is apparently by Billy Simon:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_is_the_Loving_Tongue

Sometimes, I wish Mark would do an album of cover songs.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 01, 2012, 01:11:52 PM
Great song indeed. And his voice is out of tune, nonthe less. But it is still nice, without the "gravel" of the last 10 or so years.
The "Dylan" was issued on CD, I saw it one day when changing hands at a second hand store. I have it on vinyl, but it is the only one I don't have on CD.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 01, 2012, 08:08:02 PM
Yes, the 1973 "DYLAN" album was issued on CD in Europe but never, to the best of my knowledge, in the USA. As far as I'm aware, it is no longer available officially in Europe. Dylan had left Columbia for Asylum Records and "DYLAN" was issued without any involvement from him - sometimes described as Columbia's Revenge.

"Spanish Is The Loving Tongue" has been issued on LP and then CD (on MASTERPIECES, a Japanese compilation that later was issued in Australia) and it sounds a heck of a lot better than on that YouTube clip. It was the piano-playing that I was highlighting - eccentric, perhaps, but effective.

There is a studio version of "I'll Keep It With Mine" where Dylan plays a "tack" piano. Again, by many conventional measures, his playing would be criticised but I've always warmed to it.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 03, 2012, 09:58:20 AM

Sometimes, I wish Mark would do an album of cover songs.

How about an album of Dylan covers?    I loved "Restless Farewell" and, as MK is such a Dylan fan, maybe this could be a possibility.   :)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 03, 2012, 11:43:43 AM
An album of Dylan covers would be a great place to start and, given the inclinations of quite a lot of Dylan fans, he'd probably get quite a few extra sales. However ......

Many other performers have done albums of Dylan covers over the years, starting as far back as 1964 (Linda Mason and not recommended). They include Joan Baez and Judy Collins, who might be expected, not to mention Barbra Dickson, who might not be expected until you remember her folk club roots. The Byrds and The Hollies were amongst the groups. Bryan Ferry and Phil Carmen amongst the solo performers - perhaps an odd track but a whole album seems unexpected from these. There have been EP CDs - Milltown Brothers and, overseas, Neidecken. Also abroad, Hughues Aufray (2 separate albums actually) and several from Spain ((J.M.Baule comes to mind). And you've got people who produced an album and a whole tour round Dylan songs (Steve Gibbons comes to mind, this time).

There are so very many of them, which may be a reason for Mark not to do it.

In terms of Dylan covers generally, there's even a separate Wiki on the subject and this is an incomplete list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artists_who_have_covered_Bob_Dylan_songs

However, if I were to recommend one Dylan cover album, I'd probably go for  "Lo & Behold" by Coulson, Dean, McGuinness, Flint:     http://www.allmusic.com/album/lo-and-behold-mw0000616081

What about an album of Mark's "roots", musically speaking, which might include a few Dylan songs?
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 03, 2012, 11:50:47 AM
And, on this website, I should have mentioned Tim O'Brien.

What would really distinguish a Mark cover album of Dylan songs would be the inclusion of songs not previously released by Dylan (and, even more, not previously covered by anyone else either).
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 03, 2012, 12:02:23 PM
Whhat about an album of Mark's "roots", musically speaking, which might include a few Dylan songs?

Mark did a programme on BBC Radio 2 about 15 years ago called "Roots" in which he talked about the songs which have influenced his musical life.  I did record it and I still have the tape, but my very old tape deck is a bit rusty these days!    I do remember that a lot of the songs were those I have loved too, eg "Sea of Heartbreak" by Don Gibson and some Everly Brothers songs and I remember "Blind Willie McTell" was there too.   I will root out the tape and report back when I have listened again!   :)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 03, 2012, 12:41:00 PM
And two well known Dylan songs from Greece for good measure!
http://youtu.be/DiLAnatJvl4
http://youtu.be/JDCfoDWfOHw
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 03, 2012, 01:07:01 PM
Just listened to the tape!   

Big Rock Candy Mountain - Burl Ives   (MK mentioned his love of hobo songs)
Freight Train - Nancy Whiskey  (He mentioned how much he liked whistling on songs and now we hear MK whistling on "River of Grog")
Some Enchanted Evening -  one of his earliest memories of his mum singing around the house, when he was still crawling!
Bring a Little Water Sylvie - Lonnie Donegan
The Three Bells (Little Jimmy Brown)
Because They're Young - Duane Eddy
You Never Can Tell - Chuck Berry
Hello Marylou -  Ricky Nelson
When Will I Be Loved - The Everly Brothers
Lonesome Number One & Sea of Heartbreak - Don Gibson
King of the Road - Roger Miller - Maybe the idea for Quality Shoe came from this song!
Blind Willie McTell - Bob Dylan

He mentioned hearing Blind Willie McTell songs whilst he was living in Leeds and that he felt the wheel had turned full circle when he eventually played on the Bob Dylan song "Blind Willie McTell.


Listening to that tape again, brought back many happy memories of my own favourites!   :)

Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 03, 2012, 01:51:29 PM
I don't think Mark would ever do an album of covers, but if he did I think it would be full of obscure songs from the early 20th century.  Blind Blake and the like - such is his vast library of songs. :think
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 03, 2012, 02:26:38 PM
I don't think Mark would ever do an album of covers, but if he did I think it would be full of obscure songs from the early 20th century.  Blind Blake and the like - such is his vast library of songs. :think

You're probably right, dmg.  Maybe some of the stuff he used to play with Steve in the old days!   :)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 03, 2012, 04:23:14 PM
Superval, was the "Roots" programme the one where he was interviewed by Jez Lowe?
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 03, 2012, 04:37:17 PM
Superval, was the "Roots" programme the one where he was interviewed by Jez Lowe?

I can't remember, twm.  As I said, my tape deck is well past it's best!   In fact, I just tried listening again, but it now seems to have given up the ghost completely!   Sorry!    :disbelief
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 03, 2012, 04:39:01 PM
To some extent, I think the 1920s - 1940s  "roots" material was done by the NHBs. 

Gosh, I liked those shows, especially the small venue ones like those at Ronnie Scott's. That's what playing and hearing kive music should be all about - small-scale, intimate, more casual, face-to-face, "no hiding place", "let 'em see the whites of your eyes"  - those kinds of place.  Theatres are OK, too, but, even at the front of a huge arena, it's less ... less what?  ... less human, somehow. The performers (rightly) have to play to the back of the hall and the sound sort-of hangs in the air, way above everyone there.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 03, 2012, 04:50:20 PM
Yes, I loved those shows too.  I went to a few of the Ronnie Scott, Birmingham ones, which were wonderful!  I asked Guy a while ago if there was a chance they would do some more in the future, but he said he didn't think it would happen again.   A great shame, but maybe one day.....
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 03, 2012, 04:54:36 PM
We went to quite a few of the Ronnie Scott shows but in London. Apart from the shows themselves, it was fun tumbling out of the place in the early hours of the morning  and catching the Night Bus service to where we wer staying. It fair took me back to my youth.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 03, 2012, 04:58:47 PM
We went to quite a few of the Ronnie Scott shows but in London. Apart from the shows themselves, it was fun tumbling out of the place in the early hours of the morning  and catching the Night Bus service to where we wer staying. It fair took me back to my youth.

I can't imagine you tumbling out of anywhere in the early hours twm! ;D
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 03, 2012, 05:58:07 PM
"Twas in another lifetime. I used to go all-nighters in scruffy London clubs at a time when tumbling out  in the early hours of a dank dawn on a Sunday morning was before the tubes had started running. When wandering around Soho in the middle of the night, to get some fresh air, resulted in all sorts of unsavory invitations.  Actually, it had an almost magical element in some kind of weird rather naughty way, allowing a callow youth from the suburbs to imagine he was emulating the New York of the be-bop era - or something like that. Distance in time gives it an air of romantic nostalgia. Rather dangerous. I must desist.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 03, 2012, 06:04:17 PM
I think Mark could do a very good cover of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLwhDb7J7TY
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Pottel on December 03, 2012, 11:37:03 PM
Far prefer this, man Johnny, a force of nature...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=9n83VFE83kM
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Pottel on December 03, 2012, 11:42:52 PM
Imagine if this legend can take time of from recording his best album ever, Acadie (in case you do not know it, buy it, no questions asked) then I think it is ok for our man to do the same (touring)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IyXYVx5TJmA
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 04, 2012, 12:57:02 AM
From memory, someone dubbed ACADIE on to a cassette for me and, similarly, I have the Neville Brothers' YELLOW MOON on a dubbed cassette, too - both somewhere in the many boxes I have. I seem to recall that, before I got these, someone sent me a cassette of Daniel Lanois performing at the New Orleans JazzFest and that performance included songs from ACADIE - my memory may be false on this, however.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: IrisRose on December 09, 2012, 04:24:32 AM
My limited experience on this tour (Sacramento) found an enthusiastic, relaxed, and happy MK.   Same with this band.   I couldn't see anything tired or listless in the performance.    As always, he was magic from the moment he appeared on stage.    Sacramento has a stadium sized arena, and it was nearly full, yet MK was as chatty and friendly as he has been in very small venues.  (Boothbay 2006 wears the crown!)   I do not see a worn out musician in any way.   I see a musician whose style has mellowed and become more understated--at times and with some songs.   Even though he did not play any of the old DS songs (except for SFA) there was still plenty of life.   Before he was hurt in 2010, he was just as strong on the DS songs.   Yes they were simplified and shortened, but still strong.       
I, for one, like to see MK with this band and only with his band.    I do appreciate his collaboration with other artists, but I am selfish and I want him to be the star of the show.      Even so, with Clapton or another artists of similar integrity, I would still attend the concert to appreciate both artists.     But, with apologies to Dylan fans, I could not sit through an entire Dylan concert anymore, even with MK on stage.    I was glad they were divided.    I agree that a unified show could have been aesthetically satisfying, but I couldn't deal with what is left of Dylan.    Again, apologies to Dylan fans.     I don't see MK as tired or worn out, and I believe that when he gets tired, he will be too much of a perfectionist and have too much pride to settle or to ask his fans to settle.    A different and mature style of music is not a diminishing of music.     
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 09, 2012, 11:08:18 AM
Has Guy called this the best tour ever?
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: herlock on December 09, 2012, 12:17:41 PM
Before he was hurt in 2010, he was just as strong on the DS songs.   Yes they were simplified and shortened, but still strong.       
I'm not aware of anything serious that would have hurt him in 2010, are you referring to that backhache that forced him to be sitted ? or to his motorbike accident which happened way back in 2003 ?
Either way, I don't see any connection.
The 2005 SL tour was after his motorbike accident, yet his playing, especially on TR outro solo, was better than ever.
The pace slowdown occured in 2008, not 2010, so I don't see any connection with the backache either....
Could you clarify what you mean ?
Thanks
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: IrisRose on December 09, 2012, 06:17:38 PM
Referring to the back injury.      He was in a lot of pain and on medication. You don't get pain like that without an injury--an episode of some kind. The pain very well could have influenced his mood.   I know it would mine. People complained that his playing wasn't what it used to be.  Those are not my words.  I thought he was great when I saw him.   Go back to the 2010 threads.   Lots of comments about quality there.   Again, not my judgment.    Just reciting history.     
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: herlock on December 09, 2012, 07:01:02 PM
Referring to the back injury.      He was in a lot of pain and on medication. You don't get pain like that without an injury--an episode of some kind. The pain very well could have influenced his mood.   I know it would mine. People complained that his playing wasn't what it used to be.  Those are not my words.  I thought he was great when I saw him.   Go back to the 2010 threads.   Lots of comments about quality there.   Again, not my judgment.    Just reciting history.     
Whereas people complained about quality in 2010, most would acknowledge that 2010 was an improvement over 2008. Especially WII and TR which has a major slowdonw... I'm not sure the back injury did anything to the playing, comparing the USA recordings at the beginning of the tour and the Europe recordings at the end of the tour are rather in favor of the latter (as it is most often the case with DS/MK).
 
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 09, 2012, 07:15:28 PM
It was more than just backache and I think MK did a great job on the 2010 tour, in spite of being in great pain, in fact, he played some of the best versions of TR I have heard even though he was sitting down.  I loved all four of the concerts I attended and these performances stand up very favourably with the wonderful TRs I heard in 2005, in spite of some people not liking the cittern - but I love that version.    MK could easily have cancelled the 2010 tour, but he didn't, he carried on magnificently. 

Here is something Guy had to say:



"The difficulty of dealing with a serious back injury that could so easily have jeopardized the tour if it had happened to a man with any less backbone is testament to his strength of character, determination and above all, his generosity.  He has inspired everyone who has been involved and without doubt, enriched all of our lives,

..thank you Mark."


Also:

"Mark has endured astonishing pain to the point of 'delerium' on the last tour."

If he is slowing down a bit, we must remember that he is two or three years older with every tour and in that time, fingers can become not so nimble as previously, but I feel that this is why MK has adapted his music to suit and enables him to carry on for more years to come in a very dignified way.   

Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 09, 2012, 08:23:50 PM
It was more than just backache and I think MK did a great job on the 2010 tour, in spite of being in great pain, in fact, he played some of the best versions of TR I have heard even though he was sitting down.  I loved all four of the concerts I attended and these performances stand up very favourably with the wonderful TRs I heard in 2005, in spite of some people not liking the cittern - but I love that version.    MK could easily have cancelled the 2010 tour, but he didn't, he carried on magnificently.   

It's more than just a dislike of the cittern.  It's a dislike of the overall arrangement, the slowing down in pace, the total lack of power or punch and more importantly Mark's highly inaccurate and world weary playing in the shortened outro solo.  It has become nothing short of embarrassing and sadly - I hate to say this - I hope it isn't played in 2013. :'(
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: herlock on December 09, 2012, 08:41:41 PM
It's more than just a dislike of the cittern.  It's a dislike of the overall arrangement, the slowing down in pace, the total lack of power or punch and more importantly Mark's highly inaccurate and world weary playing in the shortened outro solo.  It has become nothing short of embarrassing and sadly - I hate to say this - I hope it isn't played in 2013. :'(
I hate the lack of solo after "rolling river" (something somebody here called "karaoke mode") and I wish the pace was faster; aside from that, these versions are not THAT bad, and some even have a good energy. I was there in Paris 2010, 2 meters away from Mark, during the outro solo of TR which had some good licks, and believe me, we were all hysterical... The 2010 versions also improved in the vocals clarity and emotion. So I would not trow them away like this, and I really hope TR will be played again next year.
It's not all about pace, '92 versions are super fast, but are flawed by some many other things that overall they are not the best - '96,'01 and '05 are IMHO.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 09, 2012, 08:46:47 PM
It was more than just backache and I think MK did a great job on the 2010 tour, in spite of being in great pain, in fact, he played some of the best versions of TR I have heard even though he was sitting down.  I loved all four of the concerts I attended and these performances stand up very favourably with the wonderful TRs I heard in 2005, in spite of some people not liking the cittern - but I love that version.    MK could easily have cancelled the 2010 tour, but he didn't, he carried on magnificently.   

It's more than just a dislike of the cittern.  It's a dislike of the overall arrangement, the slowing down in pace, the total lack of power or punch and more importantly Mark's highly inaccurate and world weary playing in the shortened outro solo.  It has become nothing short of embarrassing and sadly - I hate to say this - I hope it isn't played in 2013. :'(

I have to disagree with you, dmg.   The Manchester and Bournemouth versions of TR are really wonderful and I still listen to both of them more than any other versions, purely for the pleasure they give me and nothing can ever take that feeling away from me - not even you! The two versions I am talking about are anything but inaccurate, or world-weary, in fact they are some of the most accurately played I have heard - incidentally have you heard them?   If not then do so! 

Talking about world-weary, slowing down, lack of punch and power, etc.  How do you think you would fare in 30 years time - or even now for that matter?    It is easy to criticise when you're not doing it!    ;)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 09, 2012, 10:10:42 PM
You're right Val, the old adage of "it's easy to criticise" is one that rings very true a lot of the time.  I still reserve the right though! ;)

I haven't heard either of the two you mention but I have every circulated bootleg and a good few Simfy shows too as well as attending three shows that tour.  I must also say that it's easy to get caught up in the atmosphere of a show when you're there. 

I went to the show in Lucca 2010 and I was on holiday there, it was a beautiful setting, great weather and an enthusiastic crowd.  I thought at the time it was a great show, but in retrospect the Glasgow show I attended earlier in May was much better.

If you want an example of how inaccurate his playing was on the 2010 tour just listen to the last solo from Sultans on the recently released bootleg from St. Louis:  http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=430708

One of the better played versions actually and good on him for the effort but a bit of a mess in the end.  TR is very poor;  sounds like he is struggling all the way through.  Nice HFB though.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 10, 2012, 12:25:50 AM
Ive not heard a decent version of TR since 2005, his playing was fantastic then. As for 2010 versions, totally boring and lack lustre. Id rather he played something else than killing one of his best songs.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Rkd on December 10, 2012, 02:16:35 AM
Wow, some tough critics here! What is the solution to disgruntled fans? An unpleasant answer, I think.  In regard to the back problem
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: sweetsurrender on December 10, 2012, 04:38:10 AM
I did not detect any signs of world-wearyness from this just concluded tour.  I saw him 4 times, twice up front. Mark and the band were as magnificient  as they have always been.  From the moment, they took the stage till their departure , each evening was nothing but a heavenly experience.  Mark is still going strong IMO.  The sound from his guitars hasn't lost its magical touch.  His soothing voice sounds better than never.    I can only hope that we'll all be fortunate enough to see him perform for many many more years to come :)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 10, 2012, 09:42:27 AM
  I must also say that it's easy to get caught up in the atmosphere of a show when you're there. 

Yes, of course it is, but I loved what I heard when I was at these concerts, so I was delighted, when I heard the recordings, that my ears had not deceived me and I was not just carried along with the atmosphere.  I have twelve simfy recordings, but listen to these two often, because they give me great pleasure - I wouldn't listen to them otherwise - I'm not a masochist afterall!   ;)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 10, 2012, 09:54:22 AM
This could very likely be the last tour for Mark. Enjoy it while you may.

Yes, Rkd, we never know when it will end and I'm certain we won't be told until afterwards, so just let's enjoy every show as if it were the last!

I don't think it is going to happen in the near future, though, because MK is in such good form at the moment and he still seems to have a lot of things to do.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 10, 2012, 12:46:58 PM
With all things said, Mark still gives a great show but lately we just haven't had the energy we used to have emitting from the stage - I just wish sometimes I could turn back the clock.  My big regret is that I only got to see one concert on the STP tour.

Strangely enough the 2011 concert I went to in glasgow was a distinct step up from the previous two tours in terms of energy... ???
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 10, 2012, 01:00:25 PM
With all things said, Mark still gives a great show but lately we just haven't had the energy we used to have emitting from the stage - I just wish sometimes I could turn back the clock.  My big regret is that I only got to see one concert on the STP tour.

Strangely enough the 2011 concert I went to in glasgow was a distinct step up from the previous two tours in terms of energy... ???
I agree about energy, he was on fire last year. I may be wrong as Ive only heard recordings from
this year but he doesnt sound as good.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 10, 2012, 01:16:19 PM
With all things said, Mark still gives a great show but lately we just haven't had the energy we used to have emitting from the stage - I just wish sometimes I could turn back the clock.  My big regret is that I only got to see one concert on the STP tour.

Strangely enough the 2011 concert I went to in glasgow was a distinct step up from the previous two tours in terms of energy... ???

I only went to one STP concert, first night at the RAH and it is the only MK concert I have attended where I came home bitterly disappointed and depressed, mainly due to Mike Henderson and his overpowering guitar, which made MK almost inaudible at times. It took quite a while after that show before I could even listen to an MK album again, in fact I thought I had stopped being a fan!    Of course, that could never happen and I have enjoyed every concert since!   :)

Although I enjoyed Mark's part of the 2011 concert, it still didn't even come near the pleasure the 2010 ones gave me and are still giving me.   :)

Year on year, at a certain time of life, nobody is as energetic as they were in past years and that includes MK, so it is futile to dwell on it.  His music is going to be different in the future than it was in the past, but just as enjoyable, I'm sure.     
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: ferguitar on December 10, 2012, 02:53:43 PM
I wish MK could stop playing the "oldies", since hes murdering all of them. Its an embarrassement. Sadly Mark lost a great deal since 2002, and the two last studio albums are not worthy MK
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: naif on December 10, 2012, 03:24:07 PM
I think you are all overreacting. Our man is getting old and thats it! Nothing less nothing more. Look at EC, BD Robert Plant, Chris Rea, Roger Waters, Gilmour.... They're all can't paly their classics like the way they used to. Like some wise man said ''Time has no shame''.
And the oldies thing he should play couple of them everyg gig with no exeption. Especially in Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia, Turkey...etc. You may heard those legendary song quite a lot but those people can't. Without SOS and TR MK solo show is meaningless. Let's face it his solo material is very good but his song choise is terrible. Mk isn't a vocalist he is a songwriter ( nowadays can't write a lyrics like TR,PI, SOS, OES... etc) and legendary guitarist. If it's up to him like he don't want to play the guitar recently. Fish and the bird, haul away, monteleone,prairie wedding, done with bonaparte... Actually terrible choices for a concert. Again without SAN, TR, SOS it's meaningless solo tour.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 10, 2012, 03:24:35 PM


I only went to one STP concert, first night at the RAH and it is the only MK concert I have attended where I came home bitterly disappointed and depressed, mainly due to Mike Henderson and his overpowering guitar, which made MK almost inaudible at times. It took quite a while after that show before I could even listen to an MK album again, in fact I thought I had stopped being a fan!    Of course, that could never happen and I have enjoyed every concert since!   :)

Although I enjoyed Mark's part of the 2011 concert, it still didn't even come near the pleasure the 2010 ones gave me and are still giving me.   :)

Year on year, at a certain time of life, nobody is as energetic as they were in past years and that includes MK, so it is futile to dwell on it.  His music is going to be different in the future than it was in the past, but just as enjoyable, I'm sure.   
[/quote]

Maybe Mark should lose some of that belly and get fit, then he'll have a bit more energy on stage! ;D  Get down the gym or something.  I'm afraid that if Mark goes to the gym his favourite machine would be the vending machine! :lol
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 10, 2012, 04:55:27 PM

Maybe Mark should lose some of that belly and get fit, then he'll have a bit more energy on stage! ;D  Get down the gym or something.  I'm afraid that if Mark goes to the gym his favourite machine would be the vending machine! :lol

 
When you have as much energy to do all the things MK does, then you will be entitled talk about it!   :disbelief   
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: navgav on December 10, 2012, 05:10:09 PM
Interesting point, Mark started to slow down and lose accuracy in his playing around the same time he started to develop a belly. Just a thought - as you get 'fatter' your fingers also get fatter and as MK is a finger picker maybe this explains his lack of accuracy? I agree though that age 63 who are we to criticise Mark's energy - he still achieves an album and tour every 2 years = remarkable!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 10, 2012, 06:08:41 PM

Maybe Mark should lose some of that belly and get fit, then he'll have a bit more energy on stage! ;D  Get down the gym or something.  I'm afraid that if Mark goes to the gym his favourite machine would be the vending machine! :lol

Ha ha  :lol
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 10, 2012, 06:22:17 PM

Maybe Mark should lose some of that belly and get fit, then he'll have a bit more energy on stage! ;D  Get down the gym or something.  I'm afraid that if Mark goes to the gym his favourite machine would be the vending machine! :lol

Ha ha  :lol

It wasn't funny, it was just tasteless and easy to make fun and laugh when you're only half MK's age!    :disbelief
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 10, 2012, 06:40:11 PM

Maybe Mark should lose some of that belly and get fit, then he'll have a bit more energy on stage! ;D  Get down the gym or something.  I'm afraid that if Mark goes to the gym his favourite machine would be the vending machine! :lol

Ha ha  :lol

It wasn't funny, it was just tasteless and easy to make fun and laugh when you're only half MK's age!    :disbelief

Get a grip, it was not tasteless and it was funny. Try going to watch Frankie Boyle live if you want to know the definition of tasteless.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 10, 2012, 07:03:28 PM

Maybe Mark should lose some of that belly and get fit, then he'll have a bit more energy on stage! ;D  Get down the gym or something.  I'm afraid that if Mark goes to the gym his favourite machine would be the vending machine! :lol

Ha ha  :lol

It wasn't funny, it was just tasteless and easy to make fun and laugh when you're only half MK's age!    :disbelief

Get a grip, it was not tasteless and it was funny. Try going to watch Frankie Boyle live if you want to know the definition of tasteless.

I'm not laughing!   
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 10, 2012, 07:09:14 PM

Maybe Mark should lose some of that belly and get fit, then he'll have a bit more energy on stage! ;D  Get down the gym or something.  I'm afraid that if Mark goes to the gym his favourite machine would be the vending machine! :lol

Ha ha  :lol

It wasn't funny, it was just tasteless and easy to make fun and laugh when you're only half MK's age!    :disbelief

Get a grip, it was not tasteless and it was funny. Try going to watch Frankie Boyle live if you want to know the definition of tasteless.

I'm not laughing!   

I am!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Rkd on December 10, 2012, 07:09:57 PM
When I saw Mark on tour this fall, he did not strike me as being
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 10, 2012, 07:18:20 PM
Yes, I agree Rkd, the paunch started to arrive when he gave up smoking.   I think he looks much better these days and I'm sure much healthier.

btw He does go to the gym and he plays tennis too!   ;)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 10, 2012, 07:21:52 PM
Of course the vending machine thing was a joke (of sorts), but it does make sense to me anyway for Mark to keep fit, especially while on tour.  I feel it would make for more energy on stage.  The other guys do it down the gym, even Dylan keeps fit with his boxing which is well known to be very energetic.

I realise that Mark has had back issues in recent years but there are types of exercise he can still do.  I think pilates are okay and could even help him, but I'm certainly no expert!

P.S.  I think Guy said he gave up playing tennis (certainly while on tour anyway).
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 10, 2012, 07:24:19 PM
Guy said MK does pilates.

btw dmg, it wasn't the vending machine "joke" that upset me as much as the endless carping from people on this forum who are half his age or less, about his lack of energy and who are very unlikely to do a fraction of what he has done!     I mean, could you envisage touring for 90+ dates across the US and Europe for 4 months  to a different town/country most nights and then do a concert?   That's what I call energy!   ;)   
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Rkd on December 10, 2012, 07:51:26 PM
Well said, Val. I totally agree with you.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 10, 2012, 08:31:58 PM
Guy said MK does pilates.

btw dmg, it wasn't the vending machine "joke" that upset me as much as the endless carping from people on this forum who are half his age or less, about his lack of energy and who are very unlikely to do a fraction of what he has done!     I mean, could you envisage touring for 90+ dates across the US and Europe for 4 months  to a different town/country most nights and then do a concert?   That's what I call energy!   ;)   
its a brave statement to make comments about other forum members lifestyle when you know nothing about them, or why not be a bit braver and name them. Here the dangers of writing on internet forums becomes apparent. I find your moral high ground on Marks fitness tedious and weird.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 10, 2012, 08:40:32 PM
Oh I guess it is this time of the year people gather together in peace and loving feelings flow effortlessly.  ::)  All this talk  is really a matter of opinion. Everybody has one and also the right to express it. I believe dmg is just picking on you Val! Don't take it so hard!  Be as playful! Irony and comfy chair!
Of course we all know your opinion dmg, and although I can't follow your discussion ( because I have not heard all these lives or /and recordings, I can not have a solid opinion) I find MK's voice and guitar playing and his songwriting 
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 10, 2012, 09:09:18 PM
Arghh!  We're missing the vital word from your post there vgonis.  Adjective required immediately please - post-haste!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 10, 2012, 09:11:43 PM
Oh I guess it is this time of the year people gather together in peace and loving feelings flow effortlessly.  ::)  All this talk  is really a matter of opinion. Everybody has one and also the right to express it. I believe dmg is just picking on you Val! Don't take it so hard!  Be as playful! Irony and comfy chair!
Of course we all know your opinion dmg, and although I can't follow your discussion ( because I have not heard all these lives or /and recordings, I can not have a solid opinion) I find MK's voice and guitar playing and his songwriting
You are absolutely right vgonis, it's a matter of opinion and not fact, and we should all be able to express these opinions without fear of castigation because someone doesn't agree or like something you said. This forum is great and an excellent resource for MK fans, but it does get dragged into the shit sometimes and it really annoys me.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 11, 2012, 10:17:41 AM
Not quite on topic but just to note that I made a contribution to this thread a day or so ago. Everything seemed to go through correctly but it never appeared.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: rosco on December 11, 2012, 11:43:23 AM
Here's figures for a couple of other MK/BD gigs-according to Billboard boxscore.

Philadelphia- 8564 capacity 10000-Gross $428,951
Grand Rapids-3154 capacity 9946-Gross $234,600 - Over 6000 under capacity!!!
Montreal-5706 capacity 6712-Gross $474,894
Portland-4667 capacity 7477- Gross $361.818

There seems to be a few other artists not selling out -Springsteen in Denver was 3k under capacity.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 11, 2012, 12:48:08 PM
Here's figures for a couple of other MK/BD gigs-according to Billboard boxscore.

Philadelphia- 8564 capacity 10000-Gross $428,951
Grand Rapids-3154 capacity 9946-Gross $234,600 - Over 6000 under capacity!!!
Montreal-5706 capacity 6712-Gross $474,894
Portland-4667 capacity 7477- Gross $361.818

There seems to be a few other artists not selling out -Springsteen in Denver was 3k under capacity.

A one off payment to see ones favourite artist may not seem too much to ask - even in todays financial climate - but the way Dylan tours is not doing his attendance figures any favours whatsoever.  Perhaps he needs to give this never ending tour an end!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 11, 2012, 01:05:25 PM
I wonder if the financial climate is having an affect on attendance. 6000 undersold is incredible.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 11, 2012, 06:46:59 PM
Dylan has often done 100 shows a year but this year and last it was down to around 80 or so, each year. Maybe he is beginning to slow down. Personally, I welcome that. As to his stopping entirely, that will happen in due course, either for health/physical reasons or simply because he gets fed up with doing it every year.  Meanwhile .....
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 11, 2012, 11:02:07 PM
The "financial climate" is certainly having an effect. While there, I met one of my New York friends, someone who has travelled to Europe to see Dylan several times in the past, and he said that the cost of getting a good ticket was just too much, what with offspring being in college and the slow-down in the economy. And the Brooklyn show was just a few subway stops across the East River for him.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 12, 2012, 12:55:54 AM
Agree with val, some very harsh and uncalled for comments in this thread, mk has a bit of a paunch but is jo way fat.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: IrisRose on December 12, 2012, 04:47:52 AM
Right on! Superval!  Well said.  And yeah, what Dusty said too.   
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 12, 2012, 12:48:54 PM
I don't think any of us are saying he's "fat," not that there would be anything wrong if he were.  My point was that if he were perhaps a little more fit then it would translate to more energy on the stage, that's all.  Nothing more and no offence intended.  I'm sure his body mass index is quite in order!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 12, 2012, 01:39:32 PM
Oh dear God, who said he was fat. DMG made a joke, and an entitled opinion about energy levels. How can any offence be taken, especially when MK is hardly a fattie. The thread is about tour conclusions. If it was about tour conclusions (positive views only) then that would be different and pointless. Im off to find a wall to introduce my head to it.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 12, 2012, 02:32:51 PM
Banjo don't do it! Think of the wall!  ;)  I am having a particularly difficult time trying to figure out what the fuss is about. And really, even though I hardly know any of you guys, I thought we were beyond these things (I reserve this right only for myself, for obvious reasons  ;D ) . dmg made a joke, expressed his opinion but in no way meant insult to MK. All those smiling and laughing icons indicated this. They were invented in order to convey the feeling and mood of the person at the time of writing (since we have no other means to do so)  and also that what he'she says is actually no more than a joke! Even if jokes have hidden truths in them.

He played TR in Athens, at 2008 and I was pleasantly surprised to hear it. His energy was high then with the same physic, only 4 years younger than today. I was still because his DS days were over and I never got to see him live back then, when he was younger and me as well. Enthusiasm is what's mising. And some times it is a disease that even fans  get. And desperately try to find what's wrong. Getting all these recordings have this huge disadvantage, you actually get used to the sound from repeated plays, you also spot the mistakes that were not supposed to be reproduced and the uniqueness of the live experience somehow fades.

And a little verse, you can sing along with Bob.

I am a worried fan, I heard the man,
singing all new songs in America
there's a sound in my left ear, it must be guitar,

I don't recognise the songs and I can't sing along,
I look for videos and downloads
I have bought the ticket for 2013

Discussing all these matters with the folks at AMIT
Any wonder why we've ended up like this

Things are different and times have changed,
 if you're looking up you must have failed,
 you used to believe, but now it's only small change.
 
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 12, 2012, 02:54:35 PM
Vgonis, I went to Athens in 2008 to see MK and the ancient ruins (sounds like a good name for the 96ers). Did you see him get really angry with the tapers and start swearing during why aye man. It was awful to see and totally spoilt the show. I also seem to remember their was gonna be a riot because he didnt play MFN. The energy levels from the audience were amazing, very different from sitting in the RAH clapping politely.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 12, 2012, 03:30:07 PM
I spotted it too, Banjo. At first I thought he was expressing in a very vivid manner some of the lyrics of the song,  ;) but then the repeated and out of time gestures became apparent what they were for. It is strange, because I knew MK allowed recording and videos, provided they didn't interfere with the pleasure of the other viewers. The local promoters, however, had issued tickets that actually prohibited any kind of recordings or photos. I asked for permission (I was working for a magazine back then) but I was denied. I had the ticket  and I was searched at the entrance, luckily they didn't find the camera, recorder or photography camera.
I don't know about MFN, I guess the energy could come from this anticipation, but he played so many DS songs, that everybody was happy. Many guitarists in the crowd, and many viewers with Heavy metal t-shirts! If this kind of energy is required to get a nice performance, well, ask for MFN!  ;D But yo have to remember, that the last time MK visited Greece to play was in 1985! People in the UK, are able to see him 4-5 nights in a row! I guess it is sort of a tradition!   
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 12, 2012, 04:00:22 PM
Really!! He's not been to Greece since 1985, Im shocked by that. I remember a group of fans afterwards outside in the car park blasting MFN out.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 12, 2012, 04:21:53 PM
I know that he has spent at least one summer here with his family, but to play live, it too him 23 years to return! I guess in 2031 he'll be back! He comes to Sofia and Konstantinople but not 800 km to the south to Athens!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 12, 2012, 04:48:24 PM
Guy said MK does pilates.

btw dmg, it wasn't the vending machine "joke" that upset me as much as the endless carping from people on this forum who are half his age or less, about his lack of energy and who are very unlikely to do a fraction of what he has done!     I mean, could you envisage touring for 90+ dates across the US and Europe for 4 months  to a different town/country most nights and then do a concert?   That's what I call energy!   ;)   
its a brave statement to make comments about other forum members lifestyle when you know nothing about them, or why not be a bit braver and name them. Here the dangers of writing on internet forums becomes apparent. I find your moral high ground on Marks fitness tedious and weird.

Banjo99uk, If you will read my post above again, you will see that it was about the constant references on this forum to MK's lack of energy and my comments that most people, even if they are only half his age, would not be able to do the things he does at 63 - it was merely a generalisation and was not aimed at any particular person!  However, I do find your final sentence to me very hurtful - would you say those words to my face?
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 12, 2012, 06:04:24 PM
Guy said MK does pilates.

btw dmg, it wasn't the vending machine "joke" that upset me as much as the endless carping from people on this forum who are half his age or less, about his lack of energy and who are very unlikely to do a fraction of what he has done!     I mean, could you envisage touring for 90+ dates across the US and Europe for 4 months  to a different town/country most nights and then do a concert?   That's what I call energy!   ;)   
its a brave statement to make comments about other forum members lifestyle when you know nothing about them, or why not be a bit braver and name them. Here the dangers of writing on internet forums becomes apparent. I find your moral high ground on Marks fitness tedious and weird.

Banjo99uk, If you will read my post above again, you will see that it was about the constant references on this forum to MK's lack of energy and my comments that most people, even if they are only half his age, would not be able to do the things he does at 63 - it was merely a generalisation and was not aimed at any particular person!  However, I do find your final sentence to me very hurtful - would you say those words to my face?
Reread your posts properly. You had a go at me for laughing at DMGs harmless joke. You told me it was not funny and tasteless. I said it was funny, you said youre not laughing and I said I was. Its all here to be read again. I felt you overstepped the mark in telling me what was or was not funny. Please have a look and tell me what you think. Also please dont think I would want to offend you as I wouldnt. Either here or in person, so I apologise as I clearly have.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 12, 2012, 06:13:20 PM
Banjo - Thank you - apology accepted!   :)     Now can we draw a line under this storm in a teacup, please, and get back to the original thread?    ;)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 12, 2012, 06:18:22 PM
My pleasure.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 12, 2012, 06:26:03 PM
 :smack  I wanted a fight! I had put my bets on Val!  :wave But I also, secretly, wanted dmg and Banjo to win.  ;D

How about going to the cinema! I saw this old films from the 90ies, with Rachel Griffiths, "Divorcing Jack" and "Muriel's wedding", both great, with that order.
I really miss the old days where a soundtrack was thrown in between DS releases.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 12, 2012, 06:28:53 PM
:smack  I wanted a fight! I had put my bets on Val!  :wave But I also, secretly, wanted dmg and Banjo to win.  ;D

How about going to the cinema! I saw this old films from the 90ies, with Rachel Griffiths, "Divorcing Jack" and "Muriel's wedding", both great, with that order.
I really miss the old days where a soundtrack was thrown in between DS releases.

Now that WAS funny and I'm laughing!    :lol      Cheers vgonis!    :wave
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 12, 2012, 06:35:09 PM
A good ploy. Bet on the team/person/side (etc) that you don't want to win.   That way, if your favoured team/person/side loses, at least you get something back by way of compensation.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 12, 2012, 06:41:04 PM
A good ploy. Bet on the team/person/side (etc) that you don't want to win.   That way, if your favoured team/person/side loses, at least you get something back by way of compensation.

That would be absolutely no compensation if I bet on Celtic to win any match, believe me! ;D
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 12, 2012, 06:49:18 PM
:smack  I wanted a fight! I had put my bets on Val!  :wave But I also, secretly, wanted dmg and Banjo to win.  ;D

How about going to the cinema! I saw this old films from the 90ies, with Rachel Griffiths, "Divorcing Jack" and "Muriel's wedding", both great, with that order.
I really miss the old days where a soundtrack was thrown in between DS releases.

Ive got to be careful Vgonis, Superval could be a bare knuckled fist fighter.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 12, 2012, 07:08:46 PM
:smack  I wanted a fight! I had put my bets on Val!  :wave But I also, secretly, wanted dmg and Banjo to win.  ;D

How about going to the cinema! I saw this old films from the 90ies, with Rachel Griffiths, "Divorcing Jack" and "Muriel's wedding", both great, with that order.
I really miss the old days where a soundtrack was thrown in between DS releases.

Ive got to be careful Vgonis, Superval could be a bare fisted knuckle fighter.

I thought it was going to be pistols at dawn!   ;D
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 12, 2012, 07:20:13 PM
That reminds me of an episode from "Not the nine o'clock news" (or was it "A bit of Fry and Laurie") where they meet in the morning for a dual and the referee asks the first one to chose between a sword and a pistol. He chooses the sword and then the referee hands the pistol to the other!!!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 12, 2012, 07:22:31 PM
Happy Days.
With regards to a conclusion, Ive said before its difficult to do so having not attended. However I will be really dissapointed if I dont get to hear Crows and Kingdom next year. They are the ones im enjoying the most from the 3 recordings ive heard.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Pottel on December 12, 2012, 11:51:28 PM
Vgonis, I went to Athens in 2008 to see MK and the ancient ruins (sounds like a good name for the 96ers). Did you see him get really angry with the tapers and start swearing during why aye man. It was awful to see and totally spoilt the show. I also seem to remember their was gonna be a riot because he didnt play MFN. The energy levels from the audience were amazing, very different from sitting in the RAH clapping politely.
oh the good old click-on-a-button-and-speak-directly-into-the-mic-to -your-team-to-tell-them-about-some-lonely-taper they should catch, that so ruined those shows for me that year. Really sad.
I am just saying two words hear "tripod" and "Amsterdam";(
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Rkd on December 13, 2012, 01:00:11 AM
Will the end of the tour not be the end if we keep talking about it? I hope so as I miss it so much! I already stated my thoughts previously about the 2012 NA tour, but since we
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 13, 2012, 01:08:34 AM
I was actually referring to two teams (or whatever) who were playing one another. If 'gers is your team, then there is little prospect of them meeting Celtic, certainly not so frequently, in the near future.

And, just out of interest, two of my Dylan acquaintances are good, not say close, friends and they kick with different feet. One of my abiding memories is taking a meal with them at a Dylan convention in Manchester. The banter between them, jocular and good-hearted but cutting, was priceless.  I think it was the first time mrs twm had met them and, coming from that fine city as she does, she ached with laughter by the end. I wish I could have bottled the jokes, the biting repartee, the quick wit and the underlying "edge" to it all. The roaring  from everyone at the table marked a great evening.

Here's ny contribution. Many, many years ago, it was a Saturday and I was on a bus from Glasgow City Centre heading out of town. The bus stopped near Parkhead and there was a bit of a commotion upstairs. This was just before lunchtime. The noise was a drunken Celtic supporter coming down the stairs to get off. He was so drunk that he was banging off the sides of the stairs as he came down. Eventually, he appeared at the bottom, on the platform, dressed in the full regalia - green white stripes everywhere, head to toe. As he stood on the platform to get off, there was a vertical pole ahead of him, exactly half-way between the sides of the bus doors, which had now opened. He brought himself up and looked ahead of him. Which side of the pole to go? It was a difficult decision. He swayed, leaned forward, tried to concentrate, made his decision and lunged forward. He missed the pole and all but fell off the bus. Realising he managed to get off, he brought himself to his full height and gave a roar of triumph before stumbling a bit more. Then, ahead of him, he saw a bar or pub. Another challenge! He drew himself up, assessed his ability against the distance to get to it and the width of its entrance and proceeded to zig-zagged his way across the pavement. After repeating his escapade with the pole on the bus, he entered the bar at last, presumably to celebrate his success in getting there in the first place.

Not a particularly funny story but the 'gers supporter immediately asked, "Was he followed behind by a wee boy?" I just fell about laughing. What a great line!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 13, 2012, 01:16:07 AM
Vgonis, I went to Athens in 2008 to see MK and the ancient ruins (sounds like a good name for the 96ers). Did you see him get really angry with the tapers and start swearing during why aye man. It was awful to see and totally spoilt the show. I also seem to remember their was gonna be a riot because he didnt play MFN. The energy levels from the audience were amazing, very different from sitting in the RAH clapping politely.
oh the good old click-on-a-button-and-speak-directly-into-the-mic-to -your-team-to-tell-them-about-some-lonely-taper they should catch, that so ruined those shows for me that year. Really sad.
I am just saying two words hear "tripod" and "Amsterdam";(
What happened in Amsterdam?  I did message GF on his forum after Athens about the show being spoilt by MK losing it on stage. His answer was, Thanks Andy, very interesting.  Which for GF I thought was quite good. I didnt see anything like that in 2010 and 2011 thankfully.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: jbaent on December 13, 2012, 01:54:56 PM
:smack  I wanted a fight! I had put my bets on Val!  :wave But I also, secretly, wanted dmg and Banjo to win.  ;D

How about going to the cinema! I saw this old films from the 90ies, with Rachel Griffiths, "Divorcing Jack" and "Muriel's wedding", both great, with that order.
I really miss the old days where a soundtrack was thrown in between DS releases.

If my memory serves, Kitty Aldridge was on "Divorcing Jack" film.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 13, 2012, 02:20:31 PM
She played a small role as well, but the real star is Rachel Griffiths. What a nun! In her youth her face characteristics reminded me a bit of  Juliette Lewis.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 13, 2012, 02:40:56 PM
She played a small role as well, but the real star is Rachel Griffiths. What a nun! In her youth her face characteristics reminded me a bit of  Juliette Lewis.

Juliette Lewis did a wonderful job in Scorsese's Cape Fear but kind of drifted off the scene somehow.  I think she's singing/touring with her band as well as acting part-time these days.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 13, 2012, 02:56:58 PM
Great talent, both as an actress and musician, but her music doesn't seem to have a great impact. But surely better than Bruce Willis' efforts, or Don Johnson's.  ;D
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 13, 2012, 03:07:35 PM
Great talent, both as an actress and musician, but her music doesn't seem to have a great impact. But surely better than Bruce Willis' efforts, or Don Johnson's.  ;D

Miami Vice was great.  I have a couple of series on DVD and the soundtracks are great;  in one episode part of BIA is played and in another RAtR is played!  Great to hear the latter in a series especially.

The most appropriate one to play would be SFA.  In fact they could just show the official video because the band look like they just walked off the set! :lol
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 13, 2012, 03:17:33 PM
Ha, ha, ha!  ;D
Even though I must have probably watched only 2-3 episodes from Miami Vice, I must agree on the SFA comment! After watching the SFA (and WoL) videos for the first time I had doubts DS were a British group!  As you realize I was talking about their singing careers and not their acting .
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 13, 2012, 06:05:50 PM
I doubt I ever watched a complete epiosde of Miami Vice. Just got bored. And not all the music was that good in it. I think the guy who made it went on the make "Band of the Hand", for which Dylan provided the title track. Not a great film, either.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 13, 2012, 06:31:53 PM
I doubt I ever watched a complete epiosde of Miami Vice. Just got bored. And not all the music was that good in it. I think the guy who made it went on the make "Band of the Hand", for which Dylan provided the title track. Not a great film, either.

Crockett lived on a yacht, drove a Ferarri and kept an alligator for a pet. 8) 8)  How can these ingredients not make for a great series! ;D
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 14, 2012, 12:56:42 AM
They're just window dressing, sheer gloss, nothing to do with plot, character, character development, relationships or anything that might make a story interesting. The things you cited don't even make an episode, let alone a series.

"Miami Vice" was aimed at a generation brought up on "The A-Team" but looking for something with surface sophistication with heavier violence. So the slightly daffy crash-bang-wallop but nobody-dies stuff of the A-Team was transmogrified into a weekly body count - and all done to the beat of the popular music of the day.  What age were you then, dmg?

P.S. As I recall, the Ferrari wasn't even a real Ferrari, by the way.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 14, 2012, 01:15:08 AM
It is a long discussion this one twm. I guess there were restrictions back then, all these were aired well after 21:00 and were not for children, well not under 15 anyway. I never got to watch them when they first appeared because we didn't have a TV at home until 1991. It was fun watching old TV series during the summer time, late at night, and the TV stations prefered them because they were cheaper than movies. I believe that all these could be filed under "TV pulp". This distingtion itself was a great psychological filter. You knew that what you saw was pulp, not serious and you just watched it for fun, for the action and for the current trends of another country (cars, clothes, food, women or men, houses and so on) 
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 14, 2012, 01:39:14 AM
I'm not saying it wasn't popular, but mainly with males and mainly males in their teens and early twenties, I supect.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Hophead on December 14, 2012, 04:40:40 AM
MV was a junky show ...all glitz..no substance. But it was a good vehicle for new music at the time. I remember the episode that aired with BIA in the background was an unusually good one...and that Glenn Frey guested on a few episodes..as a smuggler I believe  :think. 
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 14, 2012, 12:43:54 PM
MV was a junky show ...all glitz..no substance. But it was a good vehicle for new music at the time. I remember the episode that aired with BIA in the background was an unusually good one...and that Glenn Frey guested on a few episodes..as a smuggler I believe  :think.

Phil Collins guested as a drug dealer too!  In fact every show had the same story;  drug dealers - undercover - capture white snow. ;D

Of course, it was not of great quality but it was fun to watch if you liked that sort of thing.  I gather the later series aren't as good as the first few series either and I have only seen series 2 and 3 recently.

As for his car, his Ferarri changed model but I'm afraid memory fails me on which ones.

I guess the main attention grabber for me is the nostalgia factor.  This takes me back to the era where I was brought up.  It's still not a patch on The Persuaders, The Saint, Man In A Suitcase, Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased)...
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 14, 2012, 05:27:11 PM
I seem to recall that the "Ferrari" was an American car with a Ferrari body on it.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: JF on December 14, 2012, 05:43:27 PM
I never liked Miami Vice
I always prefered Starsky & Hutch, or Serpico, or Magnum, or Colt Sivers....
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 14, 2012, 05:47:08 PM
I seem to recall that the "Ferrari" was an American car with a Ferrari body on it.

Yes, the Daytona Spider had a Corvette chassis and the Testarossa was a De Tomaso.  No wonder he could never catch the villains in the car chases!

Loved the theme to The Fall Guy.  Magnum had a Ferarri too!

I still think MV was a cut above these series which were intended for children/teens but they're all fun.  I watched them all years ago including Knight Rider, The A-Team etc...
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 14, 2012, 07:57:38 PM
I think Ferrari kicked up some kind of stooshie about the car(s) at the time.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Hophead on December 15, 2012, 01:25:17 AM
MV was fun to watch..good tunes of course....but the best cop show of the 80's..at least here in the US...was "Hill Street Blues"...loved that show.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 15, 2012, 02:28:21 AM
"Hill Street Blues" - loved it!  Do they ever re-run it these days? Gritty, streetwise, believable characters with all those interweaving plot-lines. Gosh, 'twas terrific.

And, almost unbelievably, by the same production company that gave us "WKRP in Cinncinatti", which was so different it was just about the opposite in every way but great fun. Not sure I could face repeats nowadays, though!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Hophead on December 15, 2012, 02:49:17 AM
"Hill Street Blues" - loved it!  Do they ever re-run it these days? Gritty, streetwise, believable characters with all those interweaving plot-lines. Gosh, 'twas terrific.

And, almost unbelievably, by the same production company that gave us "WKRP in Cinncinatti", which was so different it was just about the opposite in every way but great fun. Not sure I could face repeats nowadays, though!
"As God is my witness..I thought turkeys could fly"  ;D..I lose it every Thanksgiving when I think of that line. I wish that I could find Hill Street in reruns somewhere on the cable...great show!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 15, 2012, 12:05:48 PM
MV was fun to watch..good tunes of course....but the best cop show of the 80's..at least here in the US...was "Hill Street Blues"...loved that show.

Both shows created by Anthony Yerkovich!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 15, 2012, 12:38:03 PM
Still chalk and cheese.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 15, 2012, 12:55:53 PM
Still chalk and cheese.

HSB was just a gritty NYC based cop show wasn't it?  Give me The Sweeney any day. :thumbsup
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: sweetsurrender on December 16, 2012, 12:34:40 AM
What a nice day to reminisce all those good old tv shows.  Wasn't there also a great theme song to "HSB" ?  I used to watch all these shows religiously . What good old days they were !!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 16, 2012, 01:56:36 AM
I'm not sure we ever knew which city for  Hill Street Blues- somewhere big but not New York.  The exterior shots just didn't look like New York - or Boston - or Washington for that matter. And not Miami, either. Also, definitely not LA or San Francisco or Seattle, the big cities on the West Coast. I guess we're left with the big industrial cities in mid-America. Any ideas, folks?
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Hophead on December 16, 2012, 02:21:35 AM
It was filmed in LA..but the cold weather scenes gave you the feel of a major North East city...either Chicago, Detroit..or maybe Baltimore. What makes it difficult to determine is the fact that I don't think there were any waterfront scenes....those would be a dead give-away. Apparently some shots were taken from landmarks in and around Chicago..but not all.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 16, 2012, 09:45:14 AM
Sounds as though Chicago, though not named, was the model for "Hill Street Blues".
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 16, 2012, 10:06:14 AM
It would be nice to find out which major US cities have no films shot in their streets! Film making is one of the major US industrial projects (pan intended), so every city could ba a setting. However,  I just found this list with movies that were supposedly filmed in one place but actually it was another part of the world, altogether!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filming_location

I saw a few days ago, "The bedroom window" movie which was shot in Baltimore. (Intresting, it reminded me a bit of the "Bofire of the vanities") I thought it was the first time I saw a film from there, but took a look and was surprised to see many well known movies wer filmed there!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_shot_in_Baltimore
 
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 16, 2012, 12:32:21 PM
Glasgow recently doubled for Philadelphia!  Scarlett Johansson was too well wrapped up though!

If HSB wasn't set in NCY then The Equalizer certainly was.  Music from Stewart Copeland from The Police.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Rkd on December 18, 2012, 06:37:35 AM
Happy Holidays everyone!

http://youtu.be/DwpjbfNKm-E
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 18, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
Happy Holidays everyone!

http://youtu.be/DwpjbfNKm-E

That's wonderful!  I can't top that so I'll just say Merry Christmas. :wave
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Vesper on December 19, 2012, 03:50:09 PM
Nice!!

Where did you get the other pictures from? (the one's that are not in Guy's diaries)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Rkd on December 19, 2012, 08:52:40 PM
I took the pics that weren't Guy's when I was at the Madison and St. Paul concerts. Glad you liked the Christmas card.

P.S. That's why in some of the pics, Mark's head is partially cut off - amateur hour. I really need to take a photography class!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 19, 2012, 11:17:00 PM
Dundee in Scotland  doubled for Moscow in some TV spy drama many years ago.

And there actually is a place in Scotland called Moscow (which couldn't double for very much, as it is quite "wee").
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 19, 2012, 11:53:48 PM
Dundee in Scotland  doubled for Moscow in some TV spy drama many years ago.

And there actually is a place in Scotland called Moscow (which couldn't double for very much, as it is quite "wee").

Population 118.  He he  - you learn something new every day! ;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow,_Scotland
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: sweetsurrender on December 20, 2012, 05:57:38 AM
Happy Holidays everyone!

http://youtu.be/DwpjbfNKm-E

That was great ! I enjoyed it a lot.  Happy Holidays to everyone too. !! It has indeed been a wonderful year !
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 20, 2012, 11:00:57 AM
This post gathers together a few bits and pieces from here and there, so I'll apologise in advance:

1. MOSCOW: Long ago,  I lived not far from Moscow, Ayrshire but I still looked at the Wiki entry and discovered one or two new bits of information. Always welcome.

2. ARTISTIC DEVELOPMENT: Maybe not the right thread but I can't recall which is the right one. Some of you may recall Don Was from the Was Not Was tour with DS. The following link is actually about his producing a Dylan album "Under The Red Sky"  but don't worry, you don't have to read the lot but please read the two paragraphs under the video interview link:

http://kearth101.cbslocal.com/2012/12/13/don-was-on-producing-under-the-red-sky-i-dont-think-i-was-of-great-service-to-bob-dylan/

The apposite paragraph is this one: He continues:
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 20, 2012, 11:31:17 AM
Thank you, twm!    I will be in Glasgow on 17th and 18th January for the 20th Anniversary concert of Celtic Connections and also the next night for the Vincente Amigo concert with John, Mike, Danny, Guy and Ewen Vernal in the band.  It would have been lovely to see Heidi Talbot performing with John, but unfortunately that would have meant another visit to Glasgow! 
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 20, 2012, 11:53:15 AM
twm, quite interesting post this one. I would really like to talk to you about such matters if we ever meet, but for the time being I will have to settle with this sort of communication.
I really like the dynamics of the Don Was thesis and understand what he is saying, but I really don't agree.
1. The producer is chosen to bring certain results and qualities he usually has instilled in previous works.
2.The actual thing of course is to have a chemistry with the artist, so he can understand what is the best thing for the artist and the songs, but still having in mind the aforementioned qualities.
3.Don Was, was the new thing and sound back then and in fact brought out the best (?) at least sales wise for a lot older artists back then. So he might have actually be driving Dylan towards a new sound, if that was the sole objective.  But is this a vital objective in music or any other kind of art?
4.I know that Dylan fans, usually say that Under the red sky is actually a fine record. I won't argue with this, but still it is nothing like the previous Oh, Mercy or the next original Time out of mind. But maybe the problem lies in the compositions and not the production...
5. The point I am trying to make sums up to this: I don't really care for "avant garde" or "breaking new ground" or "sounding different". If you have a nice song, it is a nice song even if it reminds you of 1960ies. After all when I first heard Dylan's "Blonde on blonde, 24 years after its original release it was NEW to me and it sounded (and still sounds) fresh, true and for me! Of course from the artist's point of view, it is always a road already traveled, a crossroad already crossed and in a linear history (human brain is attracted by this but actually works differently) a road you can not go back (or at least you avoid to do so).
6.That said I really understand the extra added value of something nice that also breaks the known boundaries of art, thus giving the world new ways to look at things, to dream and to express his feelings, but since the recorded history of music is by now so vast that we simply don't have enough time to delve into it, the main priority is to write a fine song, a nice tune and then worrying about breaking new ground. After all, we only understand this new sound in retrospect, most of the times. It is either neglected in its time or ridiculed.
7. The whole thing misses one vital point: the relation amongst the artist, the audience, the record company and the producer. Each one of them has usually a different reason and view about the record. For the artist, the  really important thing is the creative procedure and not so much  the outcome. For the audience it is the experience it can get from the recording. For the company it is the money it can make. And then we have the producer that if he is doing his job consciously, he has to take into account all these wants and needs and make them real. It is a hard ask, a load sometimes too heavy to carry. I tend to believe that Under the red sky suffers from compositions and well, actually Dylan was not as confined as Was thought. But no one had the upper hand and that is why the record is a bit off balance! There was no chemistry (like with Lanois) to bring the best  ideas to life and formulate them into recorded music.       
8. His last 3-4 records use old forms of music and apart the shiny production, they could have been the product of late 60ies and 70ies. And they are considered to be some of his best (I don't quite agree). Still they are great, but breaking new ground? Not repeating himself (or older artists)? Hmmmmm...
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: jbaent on December 20, 2012, 12:00:27 PM
Thank you, twm!    I will be in Glasgow on 17th and 18th January for the 20th Anniversary concert of Celtic Connections and also the next night for the Vincente Amigo concert with John, Mike, Danny, Guy and Ewen Vernal in the band.  It would have been lovely to see Heidi Talbot performing with John, but unfortunately that would have meant another visit to Glasgow!

I guess you mean VICENTE (he
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: superval99 on December 20, 2012, 12:07:26 PM
Thank you, twm!    I will be in Glasgow on 17th and 18th January for the 20th Anniversary concert of Celtic Connections and also the next night for the Vincente Amigo concert with John, Mike, Danny, Guy and Ewen Vernal in the band.  It would have been lovely to see Heidi Talbot performing with John, but unfortunately that would have meant another visit to Glasgow!

I guess you mean VICENTE (he
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 20, 2012, 11:04:23 PM
vgonis, I should start by saying that Under The Red Sky is not one of my favourite Dylan albums. I am prepared to accept that there is nothing wrong with reworking the themes, phrases and thrust of nursery rhymes and I am prepared to accept that Dylan is doing so in an allegorical way rather than a literal way. Not my thing but all well and good. That doesn't mean I have to like the songs, though.  "Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee", for example, has never resonated with me and "Wiggle Wiggle" may be fun in concert but that's just about all.  The album is dedicated to "Gabby Goo Goo", who is Desiree Gabrielle Dennis-Dylan, a daughter born in 1986. This, perhaps, explains alll the nursery rhyme elements to the album.

Some of the songs do lift somewhat above those ("Unbelievable", Handy Dandy" and even "Cat's In The Well" came across well to me) but it is an unsettling album (which is not bad in itself) but one that, overall, I've never really warmed to. Take a line like "None of them doing nothing that your mama wouldn't disapprove" (from "10,000 Men"); all those negatives (double, triple and quadruple negatives) seem to amount to: "All of them doing something of which your mother would approve". Even now, I'm not sure about that. Maybe I will come to like, and even enjoy, the album some day.

After "Oh Mercy", I found it a disappointment. I don't think that the "star" musicians on the album actually help very much. There's a whole bunch of them: Slash, Waddy Wachtel, David Crosby,  Bruce Hornsby, Robben Ford, Stevie Ray Vaughan, his brother, Elton John, David Lindley and  George Harrison to name some. I'm not saying they played badly but it was more like, "Let's pile a lot of well-known musicians into the mix and surely we'll get something good out of it". It is interesting to compare the "Oh Mercy" out-take version of "Born In Time" with the version on "Under The Red Sky". I prefer the earlier version, though "God Knows" on "Under The Red Sky", also a left-over from "Oh Mercy", is pretty strong in the later version.

All of that is to indicate that, star producer or not, Don Was didn't add much to the album, in my opinion, other than a few star names. But, to be clear about my position, I have no quibble about Dylan recording it or releasing it. I do wonder what the early demos of the songs might have been like (assuming there were early demos). Whatever Dylan felt about the album and whether or not he lost his song-writing mojo, he didn't release an album of new songs for another seven years.

In terms of breaking new ground, I wasn't really suggesting something "avant-garde" each time, merely that a writer and perfomer has to move forward and cannot allow himself or herself to be bogged down in the past or to be trapped by the past. There will usually be something of the past in whatever is produced currently ("nothing comes of nothing", they say) but, when the past becomes a trap from which one cannot escape, then artistic development is stifled. Dylan, in recent years, has to some extent returned to a past that predates his own appearance on the scene. In that sense, it is new for him. It doesn't have to be "avant garde", as I say. And, in a similar way, Mark has returned to his own roots and then embellished and developed them in his own way (and in, what one might describe as, a contemporary manner). That's all.

Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 20, 2012, 11:24:08 PM
I like songs!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wiggum
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: vgonis on December 20, 2012, 11:27:59 PM
twm, we seem to agree! But even if we don't it is always a pleasure!
dmg, man this was completely out of the blue! Ralf is it? :lol
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: Pottel on December 21, 2012, 10:31:27 AM
I always considered under the red sky one of my favorite albums. Loved wiggle wiggle, 10000 men, etc...simply really liked it, maybe coz I did not spend too much time about it's motives. ;)
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 21, 2012, 11:09:32 AM
Some people loved "Under The Red Sky" on first hearing and still do. 

I had high hopes of it. It followed "Oh Mercy". In January, we'd had Dylan's night at Toad's Place, a long and very loose performance of songs old and new (4 hours and 50 songs). In February, we'd had a wonderful week of Dylan concerts at the Hammersmith Odeon. He'd bounced on stage to join The Byrds at the Roy Orbison tribute. The Traveling Wilburys were still active. The signs seemed good. For me, the album was a let-down and never really recovered from that.

I got to hear a pre-release (cassette?) copy of UTRS in August. Here are a few quotes from my notes at the time.  "OH MERCY, it ain't". "It hardly stretches Dylan lyrically at all". "Dylan seems somewhat detached at times".  I did like "Unbelievable" and described "Born In Time" as "a hidden gem", saying that it "gave me a frisson of Gershwin" (I don't think I knew it was a left-over from "Oh Mercy" at the time). I liked "TV Song" (as we called it then) but said "it may pall all too quickly"; it has. "God Knows", which faded oddly in the middle of a verse, didn't impress me but I said it may be a "grower" and that has also turned out to be true for me. I won't go on but my view of the album has hardly changed.

Now, back to MK,  please.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 21, 2012, 12:55:17 PM
twm, we seem to agree! But even if we don't it is always a pleasure!
dmg, man this was completely out of the blue! Ralf is it? :lol

Oh, it was 23:00 and I was tired while reading all these long posts that were, for the most part, going over my head due to me not knowing Dylan's back catalogue.  I felt a bit like Ralph talking to Lisa! ;D
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 21, 2012, 01:00:50 PM
There's a whole lot of music out there.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 21, 2012, 01:09:35 PM
Looking through my notes from 1990, I came across this (written by Clive Barker):

Somewhere between what the biographer writes, the conscience confesses and the critic accuses you of, can be insights the reader may find of interest and amusement

That is neat and  thoughtful but I don't know where I got it from. Maybe someone can identify the original Clive Barker source.
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: dmg on December 21, 2012, 02:30:17 PM
There's a whole of music out there.

Yep, and it was interesting to read.  E.g. I had seen the song Tweedle Dee... In a set list somewhere and thought it was a little strange for a song title, especially in light of the "dee" and "dum" parts being the wrong way around.  Now I am no longer in ignorance!
Title: Re: The tour ended - Conclusions
Post by: twm on December 23, 2012, 10:12:45 AM
About 3 days ago, I mentioned the wee Scottish village of Moscow. This post is about another wee Scottish village that has nothing to do with Bob or Mark but with Richard Thompson. You may be familiar with RT's beautiful song "Beeswing".  Well, there is a village called Beeswing and it is near the town of Dumfries - about 40 miles from another place I once lived.

The interesting things is that Richard Thompson was born and brought up in London but had a Scottish father (and you will note the reference to the records of Jimmy Shand in another RT song). RT's father was a policeman who started his police career in Dumfries and the family went back to the area for holidays.

This time, I have looked up Beeswing on Wiki [  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeswing,_Dumfries_and_Galloway ] only to discover that the village used to be called Lochend  but was renamed after a racehorse [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeswing_(horse)  ].

Finally, for those who want to know about Jimmy Shand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Shand