A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: the visitor on April 15, 2014, 10:32:22 PM
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Been listening to the DVD version of Alchemy issued a couple of years ago. The audio mix in notably different on Solid Rock which now features sax all the way through and also Romeo and Juliet which sounds like the piano at the end is much lower in the mix.
Interesting. Anyone else noted any differences?
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I noticed a huge buzz all through 'Telegraph Road'. Maybe it was one of the reasons why it didn't come up on CD version?
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I noticed a huge buzz all through 'Telegraph Road'. Maybe it was one of the reasons why it didn't come up on CD version?
Telegraph Road was not on the CD version? :hmm
LE
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I noticed a huge buzz all through 'Telegraph Road'. Maybe it was one of the reasons why it didn't come up on CD version?
Telegraph Road was not on the CD version? :hmm
LE
It is on the cd version. Track 4. After TOL anf before GH
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I noticed a huge buzz all through 'Telegraph Road'. Maybe it was one of the reasons why it didn't come up on CD version?
Telegraph Road was not on the CD version? :hmm
LE
It is on the cd version. Track 4. After TOL anf before GH
lol, i understand what you mean LE, nevermind. I think Foma means that the buzz is not on cd version..
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Yes, I mean on DVD we have restored audio and on CD there is original audio.
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Haven't noticed! Is it really? Any other differences?
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There's all these crackles and pops on the LP version too! ;D
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Listen from 1hr 18min and 20 seconds on the clip below - SAX all the way through Solid Rock!! Low in the mix but you can hear it. This is not on the 1983 release.
The full HD video is on youtube with the new soundtrack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikea2kYK4ug
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Yes, I think we talked about this sax in SR back when it was released, cool stuff, although I prefer the versions without it.
One other thing though, am I the only one who doesn't like the mix on this DVD release?? Because seriously, aLCHEMY is the holy grail of music for me, but I almost can't stand the drums!! They distroyed the great full sound from the 1996 remix. Nevermind the highhats and cymbals, but the snare drums, jeeez, they sound like cardboards.
When I watch the DVD I mute its volume and simultaneously fire up the 1996 audio. A bit tricky with synchronizing :) , but when done correctly, it's heaven.
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one of comments on the youtube Sultans Alchemy just made me smile:
"The drummer is a Jesus brother!" ;D
it now has approx. 28,200,000 views an counting.
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I watched the youtube video on my tv last night with audio through my AV amp. If listening to the audio only I like the original mix best especially on LP, but the new mix with the video does work really well. The whole band performance is phenomenal but I especially like the interection between Terry and MK, the fast part of sultans demonstrating this best, with Terrys bass drum talking to Marks guitar. Not surpassed.
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I don't have the 1996 version but the spiral CD of Alchemy (came in two separate CD's together in an "Alchemy" cardboard case) and find the sound very good. I also have the BD and must admit to not having watched it more than once or twice because it's easier to watch YT! I now have come to the conclusion that sound engineers on behalf of record companies only mess around with the sound to make us spend our money and they only sound different, not better or worse. Just my opinion.
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I don't have a hi end system, and my hi - fi is 20 years old, so muffles many bits that others find in new mixes masterings etc. But I will try theses bits with headphones! And dmg Iguess you are correct, only doing it to sound more up to date, or to justify spending big money for an older product.
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one of comments on the youtube Sultans Alchemy just made me smile:
"The drummer is a Jesus brother!" ;D
it now has approx. 28,200,000 views an counting.
sorry if it's a daft question, but I don't understand it.
what does he mean by "jesus brother" ? :hmm
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The dvd sound mix kills most of Joop de Korte's percussion, specially in "once upon a time in the west", you can hear Joop de Korte playing a shaker, very clearly. In the dvd mix that shaker is gone. On the other hand, without the shaker you can hear Terry Williamshihat that was covered by Joop's shaker in the original edition.
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Joop de Korte's percussion wasn't audible in telegraph road's original mix in 83, but in the 88 MFN comp version, you can clearly hear it....while Hal's guitar during the slow middle solo is killed. (The remix were made by Mark)
I like the mix with the sax on solid rock dvd version.
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one of comments on the youtube Sultans Alchemy just made me smile:
"The drummer is a Jesus brother!" ;D
it now has approx. 28,200,000 views an counting.
sorry if it's a daft question, but I don't understand it.
what does he mean by "jesus brother" ? :hmm
Well I don't know if it has any special meaning, it think it was just a nice way to compliment Terry's skill. Instead of saying that his playing is godlike, this is something new, at least for me. :)
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Jesus actually had a brother and his name was Jacob. Look it up. But, to my knowledge, he did not played the drums or any other instrument. ::)
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Jesus actually had a brother and his name was Jacob. Look it up. But, to my knowledge, he did not played the drums or any other instrument. ::)
I thought he was a demon on the Stylophone! ;)
Nearly 2k vgonis. :thumbsup
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Jesus actually had a brother and his name was Jacob.
I heard there are still controversies about this, apparently due to the fact that the greek word for "brother" is the same as "cousin", and the 4 gospels were translated from greek I believe...
well, I don't mean to go into a subject totally out of thread....
PS : for those interested in these things, I recommend the french comics "the 4th testament" and "the secret triangle"
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JF, it is Easter Saturday in Greece and anyway a life changing message is always in. ;)
Jacob was the eldest son of Josef from a previous marriage. So in a far fetched way he was Jesus' half brother. They actually had no blood connection, so the only but most important thing that connected them was common time. The rest were: Josef, Simon and Judas. None of the brothers believed in Jesus, before His Ascension. Jacob is one of the first martyr - saints, stoned to death at Jerusalem in 0062.
Do you mean the 3rd testament?
brother-???????-aderfos
cousin-????????-xaderfos
They look pretty the same but actually the x makes a lot of difference. And anyway, he was certainly no cousin.
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vgonis, there wasn't any hidden message in my post, altough it's easter in France too. :)
I'm just interested in these things, and watched a documentary thursday about Jesus' life, and read a long article this week about the new Reza Aslan's book "jesus the zealot".
Of course I meant the 3rd testament, a french comic by Alex Alice and Xavier Dorison
a fan's site, but all infrench : http://troisiemetestament.free.fr/ (http://troisiemetestament.free.fr/)
later, a prequel was released : "Julius"
the fact about Jesus' brother is well known since these words were quoted (but I don't remember from where, maybe from an apocryphal gospel, or from manuscripts of the Dead Sea) : "Jacques fr
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From Solid Rock audio mix to bible semantics. Seems we have diverted a little off topic
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Interesting discussion guys, takes me back to my uni days....
Must also put in a mention for James, Judas, and Simon who were all mentioned as 'brothers' in Mark and Matthews Gospels, and seemed to have positions of authority in the early church.
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Nevertheless, I think we should not get too off-topic in general... remember the rules
LE
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Joop de Korte's percussion wasn't audible in telegraph road's original mix in 83, but in the 88 MFN comp version, you can clearly hear it....
No. Joop didn't have bongos. That percussion was added in 1988. And it's horrible.
In Twisting by the pool (from MFN compilation) they added and removed some data too.
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Nevertheless, I think we should not get too off-topic in general... remember the rules
LE
I don't like this rule, conversation should flow freely. :)
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Nevertheless, I think we should not get too off-topic in general... remember the rules
LE
I don't like this rule, conversation should flow freely. :)
There are pros and cons. If you read a topic because of the title you expect that the content is relied to it.
Short OT are not distirbing but if it become too long then it may be better to split de topic in two... :think
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Joop de Korte's percussion wasn't audible in telegraph road's original mix in 83, but in the 88 MFN comp version, you can clearly hear it....
No. Joop didn't have bongos. That percussion was added in 1988. And it's horrible.
In Twisting by the pool (from MFN compilation) they added and removed some data too.
I don't find it "horrible", I guess it was to match the studio version, which has this percussion lick at the start.
the other difference is that hal's guitar is muted during the slow middle solo. On Alchemy, it sounds a little bit detuned, so it's maybe the reason why mark decided to "remove" it
as for twisting by the pool, I hear a different mix (e.g. Mark's voice is less audible just before the solo starts), but I'm not sure if there really are "some added and removed data".
to me, the MFN versions were "only" remixes from original multitrack recording. it means you can hear tracks that were barely audible in original versions, or on the contrary don't hear other tracks anymore, but it doesn't mean that parts have been "added" in 1988.
how are you sure bout your info ? do you have more precisions about Joop's gear ?
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I don't have MFN compilation right now here with me but I remember the first "yeah" on Telegraph road being removed (yeah, A long time ago...) and the shout in the audience (I love you DS!) and those bongos added.
About the new mix on Twisting by the pool there are some of the drums changed and at least four notes added in the middle of the song.
Compare the two versions:
old version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtvPmkVjNZM
new version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF_N11Js71Y
In the remastered version they removed some hits of the snare drum. For example in 00:16 and 00:22
and they added four notes in 2:06-2:07
Compare them with the original.
The new mix is horrible, too much reverb all the song.
About Joop I think he had tambourine (played in Romeo and Juliet, Expresso love, Sultans, Telegraph road, Going home ,etc), some kind of maracass or shaker (played in Once upon a time, Private Inv) and cymbals (don't know where).
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well I like the mix with reverb, i find it suits to the 60ies flavour of the song
about the 4 notes "added" in 2:6-2:07, it's just that the instrument (bass or guitar ?) is mixed more in the front so you hear it on the remix while it wasn't audible on the original, but it's not an "added" recording
and yes right about TR, I rememeber the "yeah being removed . Mark did'nt like very much his way of singin at the time...but I prefer than the way he's singing this song today
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about the 4 notes "added" in 2:6-2:07, it's just that the instrument (bass or guitar ?) is mixed more in the front so you hear it on the remix while it wasn't audible on the original, but it's not an "added" recording
I'd say it's a guitar
I don't think it was in the original mix, I can't hear it.
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I'd say it's a guitar
I don't think it was in the original mix, I can't hear it.
yes I thnik it's a guitar.
I would find very strange to add just 4 notes in 1988...
maybe we cant' hear it in the original mix just because the track was muted on this part for whatever reason
on day tripper by the beatles, there's a guitar lick that ends abruptly on the orginal mix and which "resurged" entirely on the love remix.
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Lots of new sounds in the new aLCHEMY remix.
A very interesting new sound is a note from the bass in the very beginning of Once upon a time in the west.
No one noticed it? Listen to the minute 2:19. Alan's organ is not audible like it was in the old mix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikea2kYK4ug
New thankyous from John and Hal in 1:04:27 and 1:04:30.
And many more...
If they did a new remix of the video they had to cut lots of pieces, the same cuts they did in the video 30 years before: paste the end of OUATITW with the beginning of Expresso Love, remove MK R&J intro, remove the end of Solid Rock and paste the end of the previous night (that means they have both concerts recorded, at least those two), etc.
Anyone knows where are those studios and these recordings? We could do a visit some night.