Post by: Rail King on December 14, 2017, 10:20:43 AM
The lyrics, written by Phil Palmer, are quite obviously a counter-attack to Mark's Terminal of Tribute to. Of course no one will ever be able to prove that the song is about Mark – just like no one can prove that the long- and grey-haired guitarist in Tribute to is Phil Palmer - but that doesn't make it any less obvious. In Palmer's situation, given Mark's previous song, you simply wouldn't write and publish something like 3 Chord Trick if you wouldn't want it to be understood this way.
The funny thing about the affair is that Mark's song - unsurprisingly - is SO (like: S.O.!) much better than Phil's. It's in a totally different league both musically and lyrically. A fact, in turn, that is testament to what Mark wrote, and that is making Palmer look even more ridiculous.
Good fun, isn't it? :lol
Post by: Love Expresso on December 14, 2017, 10:39:45 AM
:lol
LE
Post by: Robson on December 14, 2017, 11:05:26 AM
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 14, 2017, 02:04:48 PM
Has the title song from the Legacy album been taken up here already?
The lyrics, written by Phil Palmer, are quite obviously a counter-attack to Mark's Terminal of Tribute to. Of course no one will ever be able to prove that the song is about Mark – just like no one can prove that the long- and grey-haired guitarist in Tribute to is Phil Palmer - but that doesn't make it any less obvious. In Palmer's situation, given Mark's previous song, you simply wouldn't write and publish something like 3 Chord Trick if you wouldn't want it to be understood this way.
The funny thing about the affair is that Mark's song - unsurprisingly - is SO (like: S.O.!) much better than Phil's. It's in a totally different league both musically and lyrically. A fact, in turn, that is testament to what Mark wrote, and that is making Palmer look even more ridiculous.
Good fun, isn't it? :lol
https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=5844.msg117845#msg117845
:)
Post by: Rail King on December 14, 2017, 02:36:13 PM
Good mooooooorning!
:lol
LE
Oh, I'm sorry! Please feel free to delete this thread; you've obviously discussed it at length before (well hidden, though), and I didn't notice.
Reading the other thread, though, I stumbled upon something you said, LE: "I agree however that MK surely never looked very friendly and nice but always strange, egomanic and arrogant. It must be hard to really have a good relationship with him. He lacks many emotions not only in his lyrics but it seems also in his working life. Show me one song that touches and breaks your heart and is not ironic, full of sarcasm or wrapped into a lot of artistic layers... I guess that's the price for being brilliant and a genious!"
While I otherwise tend to agree with you, I find this a little strange. Do I know MK songs that touch my heart and are not ironic?! Well, dozens of them! He brings me to tears all the time, especially with his solo material. Follow the Ribbon, True Love Will Never Fade, Silver Eagle, LIghts of Taormina, The Fish & The Bird, Je Suis Désolé, Old Pigweed, Fare thee well, Northumberland, 5:15 AM ... you name them! There's no artist who touches me more emotionally than MK. Whoever claims he's an asshole will have his reasons, but Mark might have had his reasons, too ... I don't buy it.
Post by: superval99 on December 14, 2017, 03:01:57 PM
Good mooooooorning!
:lol
LE
Do I know MK songs that touch my heart and are not ironic?! Well, dozens of them! He brings me to tears all the time, especially with his solo material. Follow the Ribbon, True Love Will Never Fade, Silver Eagle, LIghts of Taormina, The Fish & The Bird, Je Suis Désolé, Old Pigweed, Fare thee well, Northumberland, 5:15 AM ... you name them! There's no artist who touches me more emotionally than MK. Whoever claims he's an asshole will have his reasons, but Mark might have had his reasons, too ... I don't buy it.
May I add, Piper to the End, The Long Highway, So Far From the Clyde, Heart Full of Holes...... in fact the list goes on and on! When I'm away from home or feel a bit low, MK's songs are always with me - they give me that warm, comforting feeling that no other artist can.
Post by: Love Expresso on December 14, 2017, 03:16:04 PM
From Sultans on, he prefers the journalistic distance and the role of an absent observer. Nothing wrong with that! Love how excellent he does it, not many are able to do so. But in a very British way maybe, he often seems cold to me. No offence in it, just my opinion.
Until today I have no idea what many songs REALLY try to tell me... from It Never Rains to So Far From The Clyde or In The Sky or Dream Of the Drowned Submariner to Blood and Water to... to... to...
A little more direct approach, less artistic one would be less frustrating for me in getting the meaning of many of his work...
Listened to These Are The Days Of Our Lives from Queen the other day. And complete Tempest from Bob. To illustrate what I mean.
(Oh and I never called him an asshole.)
LE
Post by: jbaent on December 14, 2017, 05:36:03 PM
The only negative point is the voices. Marco, Phil and Alan don't sing well but there are two songs sung by Jamie Squire that are very well sung!
Post by: Vesper on December 14, 2017, 06:22:31 PM
I received their cd today and I have to say that I like it. The songs are really well arranged and some of them quite nice, specially the ones written by Alan Clark.
The only negative point is the voices. Marco, Phil and Alan don't sing well but there are two songs sung by Jamie Squire that are very well sung!
Could you share the credits from all songs(writers and personnel)?
Post by: Stanko on December 14, 2017, 08:54:29 PM
I know what you mean. On the other side what have you got left from it having it bare an naked?
...a little more direct approach, less artistic one would be less frustrating for me in getting the meaning of many of his work...
We wear clothes in same purpose I believe or suppose we should not? Seems to be more interesting (and maybe also save some of us from trouble here and there lol)
I would use the same parallel here, you know, when it comes to songs or anything else...
;)
Post by: Love Expresso on December 14, 2017, 10:06:34 PM
I may repeat that I do not doubt or judge the quality of his songs. I only try to say that he never had a lot of emotional approach to me. I thought about it again, the song Get Lucky made me pretty emotional, and 5:15 indeed is another one. But generally spoken he is more an architect instead of a poet.. funny that the line from In The Sky about the poet's dreams roast was the perfect hint for me that he was not speaking about himself...
LE
Post by: Banjo99uk on December 15, 2017, 06:48:51 AM
Post by: quizzaciously on December 15, 2017, 08:24:03 AM
I've spent two days with this album and I went in wanting to hate it. Sorry folks, its a brilliant album. Magdalene alone was worth the £13 of my money. Still dont agree with them trying to tour as Dire Straits, and I dont like Marcos voice. Its full of beautiful arrangements and melody.
I like how this song starts with a Telegraph Road quote right away like the piano solo section. No doubts Alan is a talented guy. No hating was meant to be made, it's just the whole situation dictates the hating... I wish they'd release this album before all this tribute thing and we wouldn't get this awful Terminal Of Tribute To song (sorry Mark) and all this hate towards a good (?) album.
Post by: Love Expresso on December 15, 2017, 11:07:38 AM
LE
Post by: Rail King on December 15, 2017, 11:37:08 AM
(Oh and I never called him an asshole.)
LE
I know, of course. Maybe some former band members do, though, in secret. What I was trying to say is that he may have acted like one occasionally (most of us do), but that overreacting about some stolen sausages hardly equals the shameless exploitation of Dire Straits' fame by Palmer, Clark etc. I'm pretty confident that I would like Mark as a person if I were to meet him. I'm not so sure about the Legacy guys.
Post by: Love Expresso on December 15, 2017, 12:59:51 PM
LE
Post by: PensaGhost on December 15, 2017, 01:46:52 PM
I've spent two days with this album and I went in wanting to hate it. Sorry folks, its a brilliant album. Magdalene alone was worth the £13 of my money. Still dont agree with them trying to tour as Dire Straits, and I dont like Marcos voice. Its full of beautiful arrangements and melody.
Caviglia apart, the quality of the musicians has never been under discussion, some are also good composers and I agree the album
is good, not a masterpiece, but still good.
The hating comes from something completely different.
Post by: jbaent on December 15, 2017, 02:23:15 PM
(Oh and I never called him an asshole.)
LE
I know, of course. Maybe some former band members do, though, in secret. What I was trying to say is that he may have acted like one occasionally (most of us do), but that overreacting about some stolen sausages hardly equals the shameless exploitation of Dire Straits' fame by Palmer, Clark etc. I'm pretty confident that I would like Mark as a person if I were to meet him. I'm not so sure about the Legacy guys.
I'm sure I won't like MK as a person. He looks nice but we only know him by what he presents to us in promotion, interviews and concerts. I know from good that he's not an easy person to deal with. Not a diva star, but neither an easy person.
So I rather don't meet him.
I met Phil Palmer and Alan Clark and they were very very nice, and they didn't had to be that nice with a random guy they didn't know at all, but they were and I have great memories of that meeting with them.
Funnily, I saw Palmer the next day at the stairs at the Hall and he said Hi to me again and asked me if I liked the Clapton concert (that's why we were at the Rah). Y could had made as he didn't met me the day before, but he was nice anyway.
Post by: PensaGhost on December 15, 2017, 07:43:10 PM
(Oh and I never called him an asshole.)
LE
I know, of course. Maybe some former band members do, though, in secret. What I was trying to say is that he may have acted like one occasionally (most of us do), but that overreacting about some stolen sausages hardly equals the shameless exploitation of Dire Straits' fame by Palmer, Clark etc. I'm pretty confident that I would like Mark as a person if I were to meet him. I'm not so sure about the Legacy guys.
I'm sure I won't like MK as a person. He looks nice but we only know him by what he presents to us in promotion, interviews and concerts. I know from good that he's not an easy person to deal with. Not a diva star, but neither an easy person.
So I rather don't meet him.
I met Phil Palmer and Alan Clark and they were very very nice, and they didn't had to be that nice with a random guy they didn't know at all, but they were and I have great memories of that meeting with them.
Funnily, I saw Palmer the next day at the stairs at the Hall and he said Hi to me again and asked me if I liked the Clapton concert (that's why we were at the Rah). Y could had made as he didn't met me the day before, but he was nice anyway.
Sorry ?
Post by: jbaent on December 15, 2017, 07:53:14 PM
Post by: Robson on December 15, 2017, 08:34:16 PM
ps. sorry for my english
Post by: PensaGhost on December 15, 2017, 08:38:13 PM
Sorry what?
are you really judging people from a brief meeting with fans ?
Post by: jbaent on December 15, 2017, 08:45:43 PM
Sorry what?
are you really judging people from a brief meeting with fans ?
No
I'm telling what people I think I dont like to meet by the little I know and who I'm glad I had met even I didn't know anything about them.
Post by: jbaent on December 15, 2017, 08:58:59 PM
Mark is more secretive and rather avoids fans. But that does not mean it has to be difficult. If you did not meet him then where can you know what is? Is not available but I just like it :) Everyone is different :)
ps. sorry for my english
I understand what you mean. I don't know MK but I know people who know him and had worked with him and all agree that he's not an easy person. It doesn't mean he's a bad person at all, just that is not easy
As long as I'm a fan I rather avoid having any bad experience trying to spend a while with him that is totally unnecessary for me as a fan.
I don't know if I explain what I mean with accuracy. It's difficult to do such a thing in a language that it's not my mother tongue...
Post by: Robson on December 15, 2017, 10:04:47 PM
Post by: Masiakasaurus on December 16, 2017, 12:54:31 AM
BTW, in my feeble attempts at understanding his lyrics, it seems that he sometimes has taken an emotional and "naked" approach as a lyricist. Love over gold and It never rains sound like very personal songs to me, and I happen to think they are probably his best songs. Maybe Why worry as well? I'm sure there are more but these are the ones that popped into my head right now.
Come to think of it, A place where we used to live could mean something to him personally, even if it maybe feels a bit like a general description of a broken relationship. But that could probably be said to almost all of his songs, except for purely historical songs like Sailing to Philadelphia and so on?
Post by: Mossguitar on December 16, 2017, 09:45:04 AM
Post by: JF on December 16, 2017, 02:22:32 PM
Guy Fletcher has been working with MK for so many years. And so many guests on his CDs. Has anyone mentioned badly about cooperation with MK?
firsts that came to mind :
Willy Deville
Manu Katché
Post by: JF on December 16, 2017, 02:24:55 PM
Come to think of it, A place where we used to live could mean something to him personally, even if it maybe feels a bit like a general description of a broken relationship. But that could probably be said to almost all of his songs, except for purely historical songs like Sailing to Philadelphia and so on?
I always thought that "A place where we used to live" was about his childhood, when he says "there used to be a little school", and I think (not 100% sure) he says something like that in the EPK ? :think
Post by: Rail King on December 18, 2017, 01:26:19 PM
Guy Fletcher has been working with MK for so many years. And so many guests on his CDs. Has anyone mentioned badly about cooperation with MK?
firsts that came to mind :
Willy Deville
Manu Katché
Did Willy DeVille say anything negative about Mark? That would be interesting. Where and when?
Post by: Robson on December 18, 2017, 01:37:55 PM
Post by: vancip on December 18, 2017, 01:53:28 PM
Post by: Masiakasaurus on December 18, 2017, 02:38:23 PM
Interesting, it's been a long time since I saw the EPK for that album, I'll have to check it out again!Come to think of it, A place where we used to live could mean something to him personally, even if it maybe feels a bit like a general description of a broken relationship. But that could probably be said to almost all of his songs, except for purely historical songs like Sailing to Philadelphia and so on?
I always thought that "A place where we used to live" was about his childhood, when he says "there used to be a little school", and I think (not 100% sure) he says something like that in the EPK ? :think
Post by: Robson on December 18, 2017, 05:37:01 PM
Post by: JF on December 18, 2017, 08:31:06 PM
if I remember correctly while promoting a new album (loup garou, maybe) he was asked for a comment about Miracle record and he was unhappy about the way Mark produced it (no soul, too cold and perfectly crafted). He also gossips about Mark and Lourdes marriage going bad at that time, giving to understand he could have something to do about it...
yes . I can't find it now, but I remember an interview where Willy had bad words about Mark, it could this one. He was indeed unhappy about the way Miracle was produced, but I think he said that he was also unhappy aout Mark's behaviour, you know that kind of "dictatorial" behaviour, the same David talked about : in other words, when Mark says or want something, you can't say anything. It can be understood when it concerns Mark's songs, but here it was about Willy's album
Post by: JF on December 18, 2017, 08:38:04 PM
Exactly. And Manu Katche what did he say?
we discussed this before, but unfortunately, the main content (including my translation) disapeared :
https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=3465.0 (https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=3465.0)
the video is this one :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCUuBGWFgDo
he talks about OES sessions in his book and has bad words about Mark's behaviour, always in the same vein
I have no time yet, if a french forumer can translate for our friends :wave
Post by: quizzaciously on December 19, 2017, 08:27:19 AM
he talks about OES sessions in his book and has bad words about Mark's behaviour, always in the same vein
I have no time yet, if a french forumer can translate for our friends :wave
Yeah, from the things even general public know for sure Mark at the time had troubles with his family, with his money, with his marriage, tour, fame, etc. How strange he was in a bad mood. How dare he! People are strange.
Post by: jbaent on December 19, 2017, 09:29:36 AM
if I remember correctly while promoting a new album (loup garou, maybe) he was asked for a comment about Miracle record and he was unhappy about the way Mark produced it (no soul, too cold and perfectly crafted). He also gossips about Mark and Lourdes marriage going bad at that time, giving to understand he could have something to do about it...
I recall an article saying that things... Do you have any link for it?
Post by: jbaent on December 19, 2017, 09:32:13 AM
he talks about OES sessions in his book and has bad words about Mark's behaviour, always in the same vein
I have no time yet, if a french forumer can translate for our friends :wave
Yeah, from the things even general public know for sure Mark at the time had troubles with his family, with his money, with his marriage, tour, fame, etc. How strange he was in a bad mood. How dare he! People are strange.
People who suffered his bad mood didn't know about mk problems and they didn't deserve to be bad treated. If you're a professional you have to be able to separate your private life from your professional life
Post by: JF on December 19, 2017, 10:37:23 AM
1) Mark had "troubles "in his private life, both in 90-91 and in late 79-early80 with his brope up with Holly, so of course he was in bad mood, and likely it influenced his behaviour.
2) Mark wants to lead and control all things, but it's not a critic, it's just that his songs are his babies and he wants to play/produce/record them the way HE wants, and nobody else, so he tends to have this "dictatorial" behaviour that is described in the Oldfield book, and of course, it can be hard for other people which are working with him, and it doesn't depend if he is in bad mood or not, that's all.
Of course, if he is in bad mood too, it could be harder !
People like John and Guy accept this (JOhn says it in the oldfield book), others don't.
imho, both choices can be understood : some musicians accept to be hired musicians and play what you're saiing to them what to play, others can't accept that.
It only depends if you want to be a "follower" or a "leader"
I think that if you want to play with Mark, you have to be a "follower" and keep you own ideas for yourself, that's all
It's not bad, it's not a crtic, it's just the way it works with him, like many others in music industry
few bands have a "democratic" way to work, i.e, all band members can express their ideas
first that comes to mind is Queen : although some leadership by Mercury, I think that all members had the opportunity to compose songs
Genesis, Yes, Floyd at some times, tended to be "bands", but always came a time when a member wanted to take the leadership
Ego is often the main problem in a band
For MK/DS, there wasn't "problem" at all. All things were "clear" at the start. John says it in the oldfield book : the "band" was just a vehicle for Mark's songs
I f you agree, fine, if you don't, leave the band. That's all
So all that is said about Mark during years by other musicians who played with him is not surprising at all. From the beginning,it was that way
Post by: dannr1 on December 19, 2017, 10:52:31 AM
I think there are two separate things :
1) Mark had "troubles "in his private life, both in 90-91 and in late 79-early80 with his brope up with Holly, so of course he was in bad mood, and likely it influenced his behaviour.
2) Mark wants to lead and control all things, but it's not a critic, it's just that his songs are his babies and he wants to play/produce/record them the way HE wants, and nobody else, so he tends to have this "dictatorial" behaviour that is described in the Oldfield book, and of course, it can be hard for other people which are working with him, and it doesn't depend if he is in bad mood or not, that's all.
Of course, if he is in bad mood too, it could be harder !
People like John and Guy accept this (JOhn says it in the oldfield book), others don't.
imho, both choices can be understood : some musicians accept to be hired musicians and play what you're saiing to them what to play, others can't accept that.
It only depends if you want to be a "follower" or a "leader"
I think that if you want to play with Mark, you have to be a "follower" and keep you own ideas for yourself, that's all
It's not bad, it's not a crtic, it's just the way it works with him, like many others in music industry
few bands have a "democratic" way to work, i.e, all band members can express their ideas
first that comes to mind is Queen : although some leadership by Mercury, I think that all members had the opportunity to compose songs
Genesis, Yes, Floyd at some times, tended to be "bands", but always came a time when a member wanted to take the leadership
Ego is often the main problem in a band
For MK/DS, there wasn't "problem" at all. All things were "clear" at the start. John says it in the oldfield book : the "band" was just a vehicle for Mark's songs
I f you agree, fine, if you don't, leave the band. That's all
So all that is said about Mark during years by other musicians who played with him is not surprising at all. From the beginning,it was that way
Very true..
Post by: ds1984 on December 19, 2017, 01:11:36 PM
For MK/DS, there wasn't "problem" at all. All things were "clear" at the start. John says it in the oldfield book : the "band" was just a vehicle for Mark's songs
I f you agree, fine, if you don't, leave the band. That's all
May I disagree, things were not that clear.
David wrote for Dire Straits and Dire straits performed some of his songs.
He even got one recorded on the Pathway demo.
But the circumstances led to the "there is no place for your songs here boy" sort of situation and probably fuelled Dave's frustration.
Post by: JF on December 19, 2017, 03:42:51 PM
For MK/DS, there wasn't "problem" at all. All things were "clear" at the start. John says it in the oldfield book : the "band" was just a vehicle for Mark's songs
I f you agree, fine, if you don't, leave the band. That's all
May I disagree, things were not that clear.
David wrote for Dire Straits and Dire straits performed some of his songs.
He even got one recorded on the Pathway demo.
But the circumstances led to the "there is no place for your songs here boy" sort of situation and probably fuelled Dave's frustration.
Yes indeed, but then they decided to not include any David's song o,n officiazl release, since the very firts album, I find that it was almost "clear" at the time
If Sacred loving wasn't re-recorded in march-april 78, I think it was an obvious clue for what was goin on...
of course Bernadette was still played in autumn 79, but at that time 2 albums had been released without any of his songs, so if he did'nt want to understand...I find that he was blind
Post by: Pottel on December 19, 2017, 05:36:37 PM
They are all good... in an artistic, intellectual, lyrical way... do they touch ME emotionally? No. That was what I was trying to say. Always hidden, always ambivalent, always several meanings, true inspiration always disguised... apart from LAJADAS and Basil maybe.. and Darling Pretty.For me the text of a song almost always comes at me last, it is the general feel that gets me, and the songs mentioned above, did I mention long highway
From Sultans on, he prefers the journalistic distance and the role of an absent observer. Nothing wrong with that! Love how excellent he does it, not many are able to do so. But in a very British way maybe, he often seems cold to me. No offence in it, just my opinion.
Until today I have no idea what many songs REALLY try to tell me... from It Never Rains to So Far From The Clyde or In The Sky or Dream Of the Drowned Submariner to Blood and Water to... to... to...
A little more direct approach, less artistic one would be less frustrating for me in getting the meaning of many of his work...
Listened to These Are The Days Of Our Lives from Queen the other day. And complete Tempest from Bob. To illustrate what I mean.
(Oh and I never called him an asshole.)
LE
, do exactly that. Then at a later stage I discover what (I think) the text is about, sometimes even years later. Or I don't, and that does not bother me. To me music comes first, then lyrics. Hence my preference for Gilmour rather then waterssent from my Samsung galaxy 7edge via tapatalk
Post by: Pottel on December 19, 2017, 05:38:23 PM
Awful tribute? Disregarding the topic (which I love) this is a brilliant songI've spent two days with this album and I went in wanting to hate it. Sorry folks, its a brilliant album. Magdalene alone was worth the £13 of my money. Still dont agree with them trying to tour as Dire Straits, and I dont like Marcos voice. Its full of beautiful arrangements and melody.
I like how this song starts with a Telegraph Road quote right away like the piano solo section. No doubts Alan is a talented guy. No hating was meant to be made, it's just the whole situation dictates the hating... I wish they'd release this album before all this tribute thing and we wouldn't get this awful Terminal Of Tribute To song (sorry Mark) and all this hate towards a good (?) album.
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Post by: Pottel on December 19, 2017, 05:41:11 PM
No one gets to that level by being easy and being Mr. Nice guy to everyone. It is some sort of self protection. As you said, no one said he actually is an ass wipe.Mark is more secretive and rather avoids fans. But that does not mean it has to be difficult. If you did not meet him then where can you know what is? Is not available but I just like it :) Everyone is different :)
ps. sorry for my english
I understand what you mean. I don't know MK but I know people who know him and had worked with him and all agree that he's not an easy person. It doesn't mean he's a bad person at all, just that is not easy
As long as I'm a fan I rather avoid having any bad experience trying to spend a while with him that is totally unnecessary for me as a fan.
I don't know if I explain what I mean with accuracy. It's difficult to do such a thing in a language that it's not my mother tongue...
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Post by: Pottel on December 19, 2017, 05:42:55 PM
One was a notorious druggie. Just saying. And those are only two out of a long careerGuy Fletcher has been working with MK for so many years. And so many guests on his CDs. Has anyone mentioned badly about cooperation with MK?
firsts that came to mind :
Willy Deville
Manu Katché
sent from my Samsung galaxy 7edge via tapatalk
Post by: Pottel on December 19, 2017, 05:44:51 PM
if I remember correctly while promoting a new album (loup garou, maybe) he was asked for a comment about Miracle record and he was unhappy about the way Mark produced it (no soul, too cold and perfectly crafted). He also gossips about Mark and Lourdes marriage going bad at that time, giving to understand he could have something to do about it...Not really "negative" about him as a person right ?
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Post by: Pottel on December 19, 2017, 05:45:42 PM
Was he not the producer? That is what a producer doesif I remember correctly while promoting a new album (loup garou, maybe) he was asked for a comment about Miracle record and he was unhappy about the way Mark produced it (no soul, too cold and perfectly crafted). He also gossips about Mark and Lourdes marriage going bad at that time, giving to understand he could have something to do about it...
yes . I can't find it now, but I remember an interview where Willy had bad words about Mark, it could this one. He was indeed unhappy about the way Miracle was produced, but I think he said that he was also unhappy aout Mark's behaviour, you know that kind of "dictatorial" behaviour, the same David talked about : in other words, when Mark says or want something, you can't say anything. It can be understood when it concerns Mark's songs, but here it was about Willy's album
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Post by: Pottel on December 19, 2017, 05:46:35 PM
We are all just humanhe talks about OES sessions in his book and has bad words about Mark's behaviour, always in the same vein
I have no time yet, if a french forumer can translate for our friends :wave
Yeah, from the things even general public know for sure Mark at the time had troubles with his family, with his money, with his marriage, tour, fame, etc. How strange he was in a bad mood. How dare he! People are strange.
People who suffered his bad mood didn't know about mk problems and they didn't deserve to be bad treated. If you're a professional you have to be able to separate your private life from your professional life
sent from my Samsung galaxy 7edge via tapatalk
Post by: jbaent on December 19, 2017, 05:52:58 PM
Post by: vancip on December 19, 2017, 08:04:43 PM
I recall an article saying that things... Do you have any link for it?
it was early 90s, probably from Buscadero magazine but i don't think there's an archive on line..
Post by: vancip on December 19, 2017, 08:14:36 PM
Not really "negative" about him as a person right ?
I thought that Willy at that time was promoting himself as "pure and genuine musician" and Mark was perfect as "music biz man example" he didn't want to be compared to..
Post by: Rail King on December 20, 2017, 09:38:14 AM
Was he not the producer? That is what a producer doesif I remember correctly while promoting a new album (loup garou, maybe) he was asked for a comment about Miracle record and he was unhappy about the way Mark produced it (no soul, too cold and perfectly crafted). He also gossips about Mark and Lourdes marriage going bad at that time, giving to understand he could have something to do about it...
yes . I can't find it now, but I remember an interview where Willy had bad words about Mark, it could this one. He was indeed unhappy about the way Miracle was produced, but I think he said that he was also unhappy aout Mark's behaviour, you know that kind of "dictatorial" behaviour, the same David talked about : in other words, when Mark says or want something, you can't say anything. It can be understood when it concerns Mark's songs, but here it was about Willy's album
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Yeah, right. I also don't like the sound of most mid-and-late-80's albums, but "Miracle" came after "Brothers in Arms", and Willy would have known whom he hired as producer. The thing about Lourdes sounds more interesting to me (although hardly true) ...
Post by: Rail King on December 20, 2017, 10:19:41 AM
Post by: jbaent on December 20, 2017, 12:02:53 PM
I was searching for that video and I found it:
http://www.jukebox.fr/willy-de-ville/clip,storybook-love,uf3qz.html
Post by: jbaent on December 20, 2017, 12:31:05 PM
I wanted to ask you about the album you made with Mark Knopfler, I can’t remember its title (“Miracle” Willy supplied) how did that come about? Was he assigned to produce you by your label or did it come about some other way?
It was Mark’s wife Lourdes who came up with the idea. She said to him that you don’t sing like Willy and he doesn’t play guitar like you,
Nobody plays guitar like him.
That’s for sure, but you really like his stuff so why don’t you do an album together?
So I went over to London to do this album. It wasn’t easy because we didn’t want it to sound like a Dire Straits’ album, and his guitar playing is so unique that it was hard to do. But nothing good is going to be easy. I know that I spent the whole time really trying to impress Mark, I wanted it to be good.
But, yeah it was his wife Lourdes who was responsible more than anyone else for that album. She’s a really great lady, really nice. I still really like that album, especially “Southern Politician”.
In an interview with you on theLive In The Lowlands DVD you talked about Mark’s reaction to the song “Storybook Love”…
Oh yeah that was funny. I played him what I had and he looked at me and said how did you know about that. I said what, and he said that he was working on a movie with Rob Reiner called the Princess Bride and I’d just written a song that told the story. He got on the phone and phoned Rob and told him, and Reiner said to get it out to him as soon as possible. So we did it up rough and sent it off and he loved it.
The next thing I know I’m standing backstage and listening to Dudley Moore and Liza Manelli introduce me before going out to sing “Storybook Song” at the Oscars. There I was standing backstage with Tom Selleck and Karl Malden, waiting to onstage. It was weird…
From here: https://blogcritics.org/interview-willy-deville-part-two/
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 20, 2017, 02:19:53 PM
The melody of Storybook Love is the main theme of The Princess Bride soundtrack - who wrote the melody, Willy or MK?!
Post by: Rail King on December 20, 2017, 02:49:11 PM
I recall a Willy de Ville concert in youtube singing Storybook love introducing the song with some bad words about MK , something like "I wrote this song for a record I did with someone that is a nobody right now" or something like that...
I was searching for that video and I found it:
http://www.jukebox.fr/willy-de-ville/clip,storybook-love,uf3qz.html
Oh, indeed. Not very friendly. Willy seems to have gone a bit bitter at this point in his life (around Loup Garou, you say?). He was certainly right that "Mark Knopfler" might not have meant as much as it had in 1987 anymore, but it meant (and still means, see Rock n Roll Hall of Fame introduction) significantly more than "Willy DeVille". Anyway, he sounded more mild again in this 2006 interview. May he rest in peace.
Post by: Pottel on December 20, 2017, 03:43:28 PM
MK in 1987? Still very relevantI recall a Willy de Ville concert in youtube singing Storybook love introducing the song with some bad words about MK , something like "I wrote this song for a record I did with someone that is a nobody right now" or something like that...
I was searching for that video and I found it:
http://www.jukebox.fr/willy-de-ville/clip,storybook-love,uf3qz.html
Oh, indeed. Not very friendly. Willy seems to have gone a bit bitter at this point in his life (around Loup Garou, you say?). He was certainly right that "Mark Knopfler" might not have meant as much as it had in 1987 anymore, but it meant (and still means, see Rock n Roll Hall of Fame introduction) significantly more than "Willy DeVille". Anyway, he sounded more mild again in this 2006 interview. May he rest in peace.
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Post by: jbaent on December 20, 2017, 03:51:46 PM
I've never understood this...
The melody of Storybook Love is the main theme of The Princess Bride soundtrack - who wrote the melody, Willy or MK?!
I do agree with you, in fact I always thought that... how is that song only credited to De Ville if the same melody is used along the score? And if it's not credited also to MK because is 100% of De Ville... How is De Ville not credited as co-composert for most of the tracks in the score?
I think this might be the same case that musicians with MK (Alan Clark, Jim Cox, Guy Fletcher etc) adding their own melodies to songs but not being credited because "who wrote the song" was MK, so, De Ville wrote the song, MK added the melody to made it fit, but didn't got credited for it.
Post by: jbaent on December 20, 2017, 04:01:53 PM
Actually, thinking about this, I also recall myself thinking how great and different sounded the DS songs live and that all that great and different arrangement are not usual in the MK solo tours, the songs are arranged to be played live with logical diferences to the studio versions, but still quite similar, but the DS songs played live, a lot of them, had very different arrangements live to the studio ones (Once upon a time in the west, the Romeo and Juliet intro and sax solo, the Sultans extension, the Tunnel of love intro, the great Wild west end arrangement for the BIA tour, the Portobello, Setting me up etc for the OES tour etc etc etc)
Despite we like Alan Clark or not because all that happened, he was the musical director of the DS tours, nowadays is Guy who has that role, and I'm sure Clark's role was more relevant that we think, and his absence is noticed in the lack of all those great new arrangements in songs. I thnk the only great one in MK solo career is that MFN blues intro during the STP tour...
Post by: JF on December 20, 2017, 06:18:03 PM
Going back to topic, listening the "3 Chord trick" Legacy record almost in repeat in my car, I recognize lot of things I used to love in Dire Straits but miss in MK solo career, those keyboards arrangements, those orchestrations, so many fillings that made the DS songs sound so different (and better in a certain way) than the MK solo songs...
Actually, thinking about this, I also recall myself thinking how great and different sounded the DS songs live and that all that great and different arrangement are not usual in the MK solo tours, the songs are arranged to be played live with logical diferences to the studio versions, but still quite similar, but the DS songs played live, a lot of them, had very different arrangements live to the studio ones (Once upon a time in the west, the Romeo and Juliet intro and sax solo, the Sultans extension, the Tunnel of love intro, the great Wild west end arrangement for the BIA tour, the Portobello, Setting me up etc for the OES tour etc etc etc)
Despite we like Alan Clark or not because all that happened, he was the musical director of the DS tours, nowadays is Guy who has that role, and I'm sure Clark's role was more relevant that we think, and his absence is noticed in the lack of all those great new arrangements in songs. I thnk the only great one in MK solo career is that MFN blues intro during the STP tour...
fully agree. I said something similar before, but I felt that other forumers didn't feel the same.
I think that feelings about Alan's talent are blended with his behaviour, but I yhink these are 2 separate things, and indeed alan had a very big riole in DS sounds/arrangements/versions
Man,y fans love the On-location-Alchemy-BIA-tour era. It's obvious that this period wouln't have sounded the same without Alan, and it's not only "arrangements", it's really "pieces of music" (intros, outros, bridges, etc...)
Post by: JF on December 20, 2017, 06:19:42 PM
MK in 1987? Still very relevant
I'd say a little bit less than in 85-86 though
in 1987, DS wasn't in the limelight like one or two years before, and I'm not sure that the name "Knoplfer" was "famous"
Post by: ds1984 on December 20, 2017, 08:24:03 PM
I think the only great one in MK solo career is that MFN blues intro during the STP tour...
But actually someone else arrangement? I read somewhere the name of the song covered into bluished MFN
Post by: JF on December 21, 2017, 08:46:08 AM
I think the only great one in MK solo career is that MFN blues intro during the STP tour...
But actually someone else arrangement? I read somewhere the name of the song covered into bluished MFN
Yes it comes from an old blues (can't remember the name, it was quoted on MKnews at the time, but it isn't in 2001 archives anymore), in the same way he used "Dark was the night" fo introducing Donegan's gone in 2007
Post by: Rail King on December 21, 2017, 09:24:16 AM
MK in 1987? Still very relevantI recall a Willy de Ville concert in youtube singing Storybook love introducing the song with some bad words about MK , something like "I wrote this song for a record I did with someone that is a nobody right now" or something like that...
I was searching for that video and I found it:
http://www.jukebox.fr/willy-de-ville/clip,storybook-love,uf3qz.html
Oh, indeed. Not very friendly. Willy seems to have gone a bit bitter at this point in his life (around Loup Garou, you say?). He was certainly right that "Mark Knopfler" might not have meant as much as it had in 1987 anymore, but it meant (and still means, see Rock n Roll Hall of Fame introduction) significantly more than "Willy DeVille". Anyway, he sounded more mild again in this 2006 interview. May he rest in peace.
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You got me wrong. What I meant is that he didn't mean as much publicly when Willy made his remarks in that concert (around 1995, supposedly) as he had in 1987. Of course back then, Dire Straits were at the height of their fame.
Post by: Rail King on December 21, 2017, 09:34:00 AM
Going back to topic, listening the "3 Chord trick" Legacy record almost in repeat in my car, I recognize lot of things I used to love in Dire Straits but miss in MK solo career, those keyboards arrangements, those orchestrations, so many fillings that made the DS songs sound so different (and better in a certain way) than the MK solo songs...
Actually, thinking about this, I also recall myself thinking how great and different sounded the DS songs live and that all that great and different arrangement are not usual in the MK solo tours, the songs are arranged to be played live with logical diferences to the studio versions, but still quite similar, but the DS songs played live, a lot of them, had very different arrangements live to the studio ones (Once upon a time in the west, the Romeo and Juliet intro and sax solo, the Sultans extension, the Tunnel of love intro, the great Wild west end arrangement for the BIA tour, the Portobello, Setting me up etc for the OES tour etc etc etc)
Despite we like Alan Clark or not because all that happened, he was the musical director of the DS tours, nowadays is Guy who has that role, and I'm sure Clark's role was more relevant that we think, and his absence is noticed in the lack of all those great new arrangements in songs. I thnk the only great one in MK solo career is that MFN blues intro during the STP tour...
Surely Alan was influential. And just as surely Mark could have his songs arranged in a "Legacy" way if he wanted to. It would just make him sound terribly dated. Which is probably the point with "Legacy", but gladly not with him. Just imagine releasing something like "Private Investigations" or "Ride across the River" today. You'd have to call it parody to get away with it. If you take a nostalgic viewpoint, it has its charm, but as for Mark's solo work, it's the sparse arrangements (as on "Shangri-La") that I like best.
Post by: jbaent on December 21, 2017, 09:35:30 AM
A good song with good arrangements would be as excellent today as it was 20 years ago and as it will be 20 years in the future.
Post by: Rail King on December 21, 2017, 10:20:05 AM
Parody?
A good song with good arrangements would be as excellent today as it was 20 years ago and as it will be 20 years in the future.
Good yes. But you wouldn't record it the way you did in 85. Just like you no longer dress like in 85 (I hope ;))
Post by: jbaent on December 21, 2017, 10:32:58 AM
Parody?
A good song with good arrangements would be as excellent today as it was 20 years ago and as it will be 20 years in the future.
Good yes. But you wouldn't record it the way you did in 85. Just like you no longer dress like in 85 (I hope ;))
Obviously not. DS didnt sound the same in 1980 than in 1983, or 1992... but the essence of the excelent arrangements was there always and probably would had stayed there.
In fact, most of it is reflected in the Legacy record. Alan fills all the songs with great keyboards, piano, hammond, orchestrarions, like he did in all the different periods of DS, and it doesn't sound like a pardy, it sounds like good music.
Post by: Rail King on December 21, 2017, 11:57:49 AM
Parody?
A good song with good arrangements would be as excellent today as it was 20 years ago and as it will be 20 years in the future.
Good yes. But you wouldn't record it the way you did in 85. Just like you no longer dress like in 85 (I hope ;))
Obviously not. DS didnt sound the same in 1980 than in 1983, or 1992... but the essence of the excelent arrangements was there always and probably would had stayed there.
In fact, most of it is reflected in the Legacy record. Alan fills all the songs with great keyboards, piano, hammond, orchestrarions, like he did in all the different periods of DS, and it doesn't sound like a pardy, it sounds like good music.
I listened to some of the songs. To each his own, but to me it sounds like mediocre songs with awful lyrics, awful voices and dad-rock production.
Post by: dmg on December 21, 2017, 12:40:15 PM
Post by: superval99 on December 21, 2017, 12:43:15 PM
You've got me curious Jbaent, but I don't want to like this so I don't think I'll give it a listen. Or will I... :hmm
Go on, be a devil! ;D
Post by: jbaent on December 21, 2017, 01:00:35 PM
You've got me curious Jbaent, but I don't want to like this so I don't think I'll give it a listen. Or will I... :hmm
Do it...
It's true that Caviglia's voice is not good but the songs are.
Post by: dmg on December 21, 2017, 01:01:18 PM
You've got me curious Jbaent, but I don't want to like this so I don't think I'll give it a listen. Or will I... :hmm
Go on, be a devil! ;D
:lol
AC on his ego trip trying to prove he's the brains behind DS? I don't think so.
Post by: jbaent on December 21, 2017, 01:16:55 PM
You've got me curious Jbaent, but I don't want to like this so I don't think I'll give it a listen. Or will I... :hmm
Go on, be a devil! ;D
:lol
AC on his ego trip trying to prove he's the brains behind DS? I don't think so.
I'll tell you something... there are songs written by Alan, some by Phil, others by Alan, Phil and Marco. I was listening to it in my car without any info on who wrote wich song and when I received the physycal cd I was surprised because the best songs from the record (at least to me) where written by Alan alone...
In concrete Jesus Street, Magdalene and Two days Off... there are some other quite good, but it's true that you te to listen to it without prejudice, if you do it with it, you are not going to enjoy it.
Post by: Rail King on December 21, 2017, 01:55:37 PM
You've got me curious Jbaent, but I don't want to like this so I don't think I'll give it a listen. Or will I... :hmm
Go on, be a devil! ;D
:lol
AC on his ego trip trying to prove he's the brains behind DS? I don't think so.
I'll tell you something... there are songs written by Alan, some by Phil, others by Alan, Phil and Marco. I was listening to it in my car without any info on who wrote wich song and when I received the physycal cd I was surprised because the best songs from the record (at least to me) where written by Alan alone...
In concrete Jesus Street, Magdalene and Two days Off... there are some other quite good, but it's true that you te to listen to it without prejudice, if you do it with it, you are not going to enjoy it.
I agree that "Magdalene" and "Jesus Street" are good enough songs to bear at least some of the awkward lyrics and synth slush. But the rest ...
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 21, 2017, 01:57:40 PM
I'm curious as to where the market is for this stuff. I know they were doing promo in Italy - will the Italians just by anything DS related?!
Post by: Rail King on December 21, 2017, 02:11:03 PM
If this doesn't make you cringe, I don't know ...
Post by: Rail King on December 21, 2017, 02:24:58 PM
Does anybody think the music is good enough that we would have found it if it hadn't been ex DS people doing it?
I'm curious as to where the market is for this stuff. I know they were doing promo in Italy - will the Italians just by anything DS related?!
They will. And as for your question above: Of course not.
Post by: jbaent on December 21, 2017, 02:43:13 PM
Does anybody think the music is good enough that we would have found it if it hadn't been ex DS people doing it?
I'm curious as to where the market is for this stuff. I know they were doing promo in Italy - will the Italians just by anything DS related?!
I always ask myself the same about MK solo records... Would I had bought and even listen more than once, let's say, Tracker, if it was a record of another artist that wasn't the voice, guitar and composer of Dire Straits?
I know the answer...
Post by: jbaent on December 21, 2017, 02:44:21 PM
Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeJAEeyiC1w
If this doesn't make you cringe, I don't know ...
We are talking here about theirs record with songs by themselves, not about their DS tribute band...
However, I can't understand any single word because of the Brazilian translation...
It still amazes me that there are people bothering Guy with this again and again, and trying to put people like Danny Cummings in the spotlight... As if Guy and MK doesn't know that Danny and even John had played with these guys... What's the deal bothering Guy again and again with something they already know?
Boring
Post by: JF on December 21, 2017, 03:52:21 PM
Does anybody think the music is good enough that we would have found it if it hadn't been ex DS people doing it?
I'm curious as to where the market is for this stuff. I know they were doing promo in Italy - will the Italians just by anything DS related?!
I always ask myself the same about MK solo records... Would I had bought and even listen more than once, let's say, Tracker, if it was a record of another artist that wasn't the voice, guitar and composer of Dire Straits?
I know the answer...
Same for me
Post by: Robson on December 21, 2017, 06:14:48 PM
Post by: Pottel on December 21, 2017, 07:04:36 PM
Yes I would. That guitar,that voice, I know I wouldDoes anybody think the music is good enough that we would have found it if it hadn't been ex DS people doing it?
I'm curious as to where the market is for this stuff. I know they were doing promo in Italy - will the Italians just by anything DS related?!
I always ask myself the same about MK solo records... Would I had bought and even listen more than once, let's say, Tracker, if it was a record of another artist that wasn't the voice, guitar and composer of Dire Straits?
I know the answer...
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Post by: dmg on December 21, 2017, 08:18:10 PM
Post by: skydiver on December 21, 2017, 08:18:47 PM
Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeJAEeyiC1w
If this doesn't make you cringe, I don't know ...
Chamber of horrors.
Lunatics, all I can say.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 21, 2017, 08:24:55 PM
Yes, i would.Does anybody think the music is good enough that we would have found it if it hadn't been ex DS people doing it?
I'm curious as to where the market is for this stuff. I know they were doing promo in Italy - will the Italians just by anything DS related?!
I always ask myself the same about MK solo records... Would I had bought and even listen more than once, let's say, Tracker, if it was a record of another artist that wasn't the voice, guitar and composer of Dire Straits?
I know the answer...
MK has been making solo albums for more than 20 years. They have all (except one) made the UK top ten.
His solo tours are still very popular, with some shows selling out more than 10,000... DESPITE the fact that there is little to no DS content anymore.
MK's solo work stands on it's own two feet, he's doing just fine without the Legacy guys, despite their protestation that they were responsible for the success of DS...
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Post by: Robson on December 21, 2017, 09:03:27 PM
Yes, i would.Does anybody think the music is good enough that we would have found it if it hadn't been ex DS people doing it?
I'm curious as to where the market is for this stuff. I know they were doing promo in Italy - will the Italians just by anything DS related?!
I always ask myself the same about MK solo records... Would I had bought and even listen more than once, let's say, Tracker, if it was a record of another artist that wasn't the voice, guitar and composer of Dire Straits?
I know the answer...
MK has been making solo albums for more than 20 years. They have all (except one) made the UK top ten.
His solo tours are still very popular, with some shows selling out more than 10,000... DESPITE the fact that there is little to no DS content anymore.
MK's solo work stands on it's own two feet, he's doing just fine without the Legacy guys, despite their protestation that they were responsible for the success of DS...
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:thumbsup
Post by: Stanko on December 21, 2017, 10:01:31 PM
sure, love would find the way anyway! ... kind of a meant to be actually!
;)
Post by: ds1984 on December 21, 2017, 11:14:44 PM
His solo tours are still very popular, with some shows selling out more than 10,000... DESPITE the fact that there is little to no DS content anymore.
25 to 30% of DS are played during the solo tours, I don't call that little to no DS.
SOS is still THE song who get the louder ovation.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 21, 2017, 11:49:16 PM
Nobody walked.
They were all still there cheering at the end.
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Post by: ds1984 on December 21, 2017, 11:54:50 PM
SOS didn't even get played on some dates in 2013.
Nobody walked.
They were all still there cheering at the end.
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But was back no later than the next tour...
Post by: Robson on December 21, 2017, 11:56:56 PM
His solo tours are still very popular, with some shows selling out more than 10,000... DESPITE the fact that there is little to no DS content anymore.
25 to 30% of DS are played during the solo tours, I don't call that little to no DS.
SOS is still THE song who get the louder ovation.
It's natural. Memories, sentiments and beginnings of Dire Straits.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 21, 2017, 11:58:59 PM
But because MK felt like it.SOS didn't even get played on some dates in 2013.
Nobody walked.
They were all still there cheering at the end.
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But was back no later than the next tour...
Not because he felt he had to.
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Post by: jbaent on December 22, 2017, 07:50:06 AM
Okay, given in! Bounty Hunter and the title track I like a lot. Apart from that it is not really that good and sounds more like someone trying to imitate the sound of DS than someone who created the sound of DS.
Funnily, I don't find a clear DS sound there... If any, I'd say there is a certain Chris Rea sound in many songs...
Post by: jbaent on December 22, 2017, 08:06:46 AM
Yes, i would.Does anybody think the music is good enough that we would have found it if it hadn't been ex DS people doing it?
I'm curious as to where the market is for this stuff. I know they were doing promo in Italy - will the Italians just by anything DS related?!
I always ask myself the same about MK solo records... Would I had bought and even listen more than once, let's say, Tracker, if it was a record of another artist that wasn't the voice, guitar and composer of Dire Straits?
I know the answer...
MK has been making solo albums for more than 20 years. They have all (except one) made the UK top ten.
His solo tours are still very popular, with some shows selling out more than 10,000... DESPITE the fact that there is little to no DS content anymore.
MK's solo work stands on it's own two feet, he's doing just fine without the Legacy guys, despite their protestation that they were responsible for the success of DS...
Sent from my Tab2A7-20F using Tapatalk
Yes, of course MK is still selling CDs and tickets very well, of course. Because of Dire Straits.
Most of the people that still buy his records and tickets were DS fans.
Now, delete all DS history, the DS past, like if MK would be an artist that starts from zero, would he sell so much records and tickets with just his solo material behind him?
Maybe on the UK he would sell well and probably will fill theaters, but without the legion of DS fans still following, deleting all the DS past, he won't fill the O2 arena, maybe the RAH either.
Me, I'm sure I won't know MK if it wasn't by DS. With his DS past, the last single from him I listened in the Spanish radio was Why Aye Man, and it catched my attention because it was the man behind DS, my favourite band. Without his past that made me a fan, I probably had ignore that song, I would had thought it was nice, but it won't had worked to make me a fan.
And that was 15 years ago. Since then, I never heard any news in the Spanish radio about any new single, and that's with his DS past. I manage to know about what he does as a solo artist because I follow him for his DS past. Without that DS past, I wouldn't know he's doing records or tour, unless someone mentione about him, and still I'm not sure if a record like "tracker" would catch me to be a fan for itself, if it wasn't made by the DS man but by someone without that DS past behind him.
Legacy is not going to be famous because they probably won't get much radio play, but I'm sure if I listen to Jesus Street at the radio it will catch my attention. Probably I won't be a fan but, maybe it will work to make me listen to the whole record and like it, as I do, and I'll probably like it anyway if it wasn't by Alan Clark past, as it sounds to me like Toto music, and I'm a toto fan too, so if it wasn't by Alan Clark from DS, Jesus Street would had caught my attention anyway, and I also had liked their cd.
Post by: JF on December 22, 2017, 08:22:15 AM
I am sure I wouldn't listen to MK if DS hadn't been existed,
Post by: Rail King on December 22, 2017, 10:04:59 AM
Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeJAEeyiC1w
If this doesn't make you cringe, I don't know ...
Chamber of horrors.
Lunatics, all I can say.
Yes, aren't they? And Jbaent, I know that Guy is aware of that band, and of Danny being in it. He just might not be aware of how embarrassingly they present themselves. I wasn't aware of that, anyway. Still have a hard time believing it. I think I'll have to play "Terminal of Tribute to" a dozen times today to get over it. They deserve that song so much.
Post by: skydiver on December 22, 2017, 10:09:49 AM
Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeJAEeyiC1w
If this doesn't make you cringe, I don't know ...
Chamber of horrors.
Lunatics, all I can say.
Yes, aren't they? And Jbaent, I know that Guy is aware of that band, and of Danny being in it. He just might not be aware of how embarrassingly they present themselves. I wasn't aware of that, anyway. Still have a hard time believing it. I think I'll have to play "Terminal of Tribute to" a dozen times today to get over it. They deserve that song so much.
Thank you, rail king. At least someone says it...
"Terminal of Tribute to" gains even more depth and significance.
Post by: superval99 on December 22, 2017, 10:17:28 AM
Yes, as I have said, some of the songs sound OK, but I'm afraid most of them are ruined by the voice of Marco and I couldn't listen to them for long - the lyrics are not up to MK standard either! Mark doesn't have the greatest singing voice, but it is a beautiful voice to me - warm, friendly and comforting and is the perfect complement to his unique guitar.
Post by: jbaent on December 22, 2017, 10:26:14 AM
Have a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeJAEeyiC1w
If this doesn't make you cringe, I don't know ...
Chamber of horrors.
Lunatics, all I can say.
Yes, aren't they? And Jbaent, I know that Guy is aware of that band, and of Danny being in it. He just might not be aware of how embarrassingly they present themselves. I wasn't aware of that, anyway. Still have a hard time believing it. I think I'll have to play "Terminal of Tribute to" a dozen times today to get over it. They deserve that song so much.
Thank you, rail king. At least someone says it...
"Terminal of Tribute to" gains even more depth and significance.
Yes... That MK has take a bath into the mud of this case instead of being elegant as he always been with this things...
Yes, I know he's human but I rather don't see him doing songs like this, i rather seen him ignoring them which bis actually the best thing someone can do.
Post by: jbaent on December 22, 2017, 10:32:35 AM
If Mk doesn't mind, why should we?
We see ghosts, and play ghostbusters...
Post by: mschaap on December 22, 2017, 10:35:42 AM
Post by: jbaent on December 22, 2017, 11:31:34 AM
Why some DS ex members accept to play with it? All of them professional musicians who has to earn their money, they are not rich as MK or JI.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 22, 2017, 06:02:39 PM
Just embarrassing.
They are supposedly all about their "original" music and then all they go on about is DS and play "their" song SoS, a record that none of them played on?!
They should be ashamed. They really should.
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Post by: dmg on December 22, 2017, 06:33:20 PM
I have listened to the songs on this album quite a few times now and some of them are quite nice, but what I did notice was that just about all of them have parts that are reminiscent of DS songs. It is as if AC has an obvious agenda to show that HE was the genius behind the arrangements and melodies, not MK, but since Mark has been solo and has written so many wonderful songs, thankfully, AC can no longer take credit for those.
Yes, as I have said, some of the songs sound OK, but I'm afraid most of them are ruined by the voice of Marco and I couldn't listen to them for long - the lyrics are not up to MK standard either! Mark doesn't have the greatest singing voice, but it is a beautiful voice to me - warm, friendly and comforting and is the perfect complement to his unique guitar.
I agree about Mark's voice. His voice and guitar IS the DS sound - not AC.
And what does he look like with those sunglasses on indoors at his age. Does he think his future's that bright, or is it because you can always tell if someone's telling the truth by looking into their eyes... Either way it's impolite.
Post by: jbaent on December 22, 2017, 09:36:48 PM
What AC did with DS there is nobody doing it with MK in his solo career, and I miss it. AND it's not only because AC is not there but because MK doesn't want to sound like DS anymore. AC was very creative when in DS but there are many musicians that are creative and can add that magic... But it's not what Mk wants, he doesn't want creative musicians adding magic, he wants session musicians to do what he wants, nothing else.
And that's not bad, but I miss some of the greatness of that DS sound... A lot.
Post by: dmg on December 22, 2017, 09:51:53 PM
DMG, I never said AC was the DS sound.
I realise that. It's AC who appears to think this! :)
I think a part of the "problem" is that in going to Nashville to get the 96ers he may have found some great musicians but he also got a Nashville experience in the ranks. Ed didn't call them The Dullards for nothing. That is what he thought they brought to his music and I agree. Every DS song since is less powerful, less energetic and slower.
Then when Mark added the Celtic influence to his music and brought in the Mc's there was another different influence in the ranks. These guys are great on Privateering and the like but are completely lost on TR etc. Too many contrasting influences, too many players and not a band.
Post by: jbaent on December 22, 2017, 09:57:12 PM
DMG, I never said AC was the DS sound.
I realise that. It's AC who appears to think this! :)
I didn't understood a word from that video so I don't know what he says, anyway... Who I like is the AC musician, not the person, and what I value is his "musicianship" in DS, that is something that can't be denied.
Post by: Robson on December 22, 2017, 10:09:18 PM
I am waiting with a longing for a new album and I do not think about Dire Straits. You can not live in the past all the time
Post by: olazabalrok on December 22, 2017, 11:34:42 PM
I think a part of the "problem" is that in going to Nashville to get the 96ers he may have found some great musicians but he also got a Nashville experience in the ranks. Ed didn't call them The Dullards for nothing. That is what he thought they brought to his music and I agree. Every DS song since is less powerful, less energetic and slower.
Well I think back on Golden Heart and STP tours they still had lots of energy. Chad Cromwell was really rocking the drums when needed (I still prefer him over any other drummer) and if you check out the early Shangri-la tour with Chad on drums it's still pretty powerful stuff. With Danny things just went boring, it seemed that his groove was always a bit behind and the songs didn't seem to go anywhere. Now with Ianto, I think he is trying to get some of the songs going and seems like he wants to drive them to a bit more uptempo feel. But overall I think MK calls the shots and steers the ship, it's not so much about the musicians involved.
Post by: quizzaciously on December 23, 2017, 03:00:20 PM
Post by: jbaent on December 23, 2017, 03:09:30 PM
:smack
Post by: PensaGhost on December 23, 2017, 04:04:24 PM
This is ridiculous to say the least, I mean Alan wanting to get more recognition. He got to play in one of the biggest bands in the world, he played great songs with great musicians and got paid for this. Millions of musicians would play for free in a band like this and many would actually pay big money to do so, and here's a guy who did all this for free, recorded timeless classics and got paid for this complaining about getting not enough share. I want to punch him in the face! :smack
I agree and the main issue is also complaining AFTER so many years, that's nonsense, if you want credit for cowriting Telegraph Road you raise the complaint with MK immediately, not after some albums and tours and after 30-35 years since the original song
Post by: jbaent on December 23, 2017, 04:54:02 PM
:smack :smack
Post by: quizzaciously on December 23, 2017, 05:00:17 PM
Two guns then...
:smack :smack
Actually, Alan Clark can play with Mark again. If AC would bring a gun with him ;D
Post by: PensaGhost on December 23, 2017, 06:19:01 PM
Two guns then...
:smack :smack
Try with 2 millions guns, 99% friends of mine think the same
Post by: jbaent on December 23, 2017, 06:20:02 PM
Post by: PensaGhost on December 23, 2017, 06:24:45 PM
You paid, ghost.
??
Post by: jbaent on December 23, 2017, 06:30:22 PM
You paid, ghost.
??
You pay the guns, ghost.
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 25, 2017, 11:44:58 AM
My opinion about those involved? Marco is delusional. The others, well, they need the money, I agree, so hit the stage and do your thing but keep your mouth shut and don’t pretend to be what you aren’t.
Post by: jbaent on December 25, 2017, 01:33:42 PM
Each to its own.
Post by: dmg on December 25, 2017, 01:40:05 PM
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 25, 2017, 03:17:37 PM
http://m.ibahia.com/single-mobile/noticia/banda-britanica-dire-straits-se-apresenta-na-arena-fonte-nova/
“Dire Straits, now called Dire Straits Legacy...”
“Mark Knopfler is not part of the new lineup...”
How can I possibly respect these guys? And please, don’t tell me the band don’t know. Phil doesn’t like Mark, he’s made it clear several times. Alan is the bitter dude who never got over the ex that dumped him 20 years ago even though she is happily married and has 5 kids with another man. Marco is the rich kid who buys friends with his videogame. Danny... well, Danny is the lovely bloke who means well and everyone likes regardless.
Post by: jbaent on December 25, 2017, 03:24:41 PM
Post by: Pottel on December 25, 2017, 03:32:42 PM
So this is how they sold tickets in Brazil:So true
http://m.ibahia.com/single-mobile/noticia/banda-britanica-dire-straits-se-apresenta-na-arena-fonte-nova/
“Dire Straits, now called Dire Straits Legacy...”
“Mark Knopfler is not part of the new lineup...”
How can I possibly respect these guys? And please, don’t tell me the band don’t know. Phil doesn’t like Mark, he’s made it clear several times. Alan is the bitter dude who never got over the ex that dumped him 20 years ago even though she is happily married and has 5 kids with another man. Marco is the rich kid who buys friends with his videogame. Danny... well, Danny is the lovely bloke who means well and everyone likes regardless.
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Post by: Eddie Fox on December 25, 2017, 03:35:28 PM
Ghost, Ed wants a gun...
I have a gun :lol
Post by: jbaent on December 25, 2017, 03:44:34 PM
But in musical terms, he was as important to DS during his years than Pick was during early DS years and I'm sure that his pursue of having a recognition has something to do with the " DS are..." and "produced by DS" in the OES record.
By the way, it doesn't matter if there is an specific thread to talk about Legacy, the band who release a cd with their own songs, his part as DS tribute band always drop everywhere...
Post by: Robson on December 25, 2017, 03:56:01 PM
Post by: Love Expresso on December 25, 2017, 08:32:55 PM
Alan, as a person, seems to be a particular guy. When I met him I got the impression he was at another different dimension or planet than the rest.
Maybe he was. His look suggest drugs. Maybe his personality has suffered. Mark usually skips drug people.
LE
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 25, 2017, 09:10:14 PM
Alan, as a person, seems to be a particular guy. When I met him I got the impression he was at another different dimension or planet than the rest.
Maybe he was. His look suggest drugs. Maybe his personality has suffered. Mark usually skips drug people.
LE
Not sure about drugs. 100% sure about plastic surgeries :lol
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 25, 2017, 10:04:17 PM
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Post by: jbaent on December 25, 2017, 10:37:22 PM
Anyway, Alan and Mk worked together three times after the OES tour, the swan hunter concert by the Nhb, a master session that it's in video and the opening of the Shearer pub in Newcastle.
And I think that also in John Illsley wedding, if I recall correctly, nothing else since then that I know.
Post by: Love Expresso on December 25, 2017, 11:09:09 PM
LE
Post by: quizzaciously on December 25, 2017, 11:18:56 PM
Before this gets it's own life I just might point out that I just presumed or guessed about any drugs related to him.
LE
I listen to the "Wonderful Tonight" right now with Eric and Mark and I know Alan's playing there. It's like there's two Alans — DS one and post-DS one. DS one, as was mentioned before, is a world-class musician and awesome arranger. After this we all know what's happening... I don't know about drugs, but it's some drastic changes right there. You can have different opinions about Mark, but I think there's a reason for him to stop public communication with certain people, especially given the fact that Danny Cummings manages to sit on both chairs perfectly fine.
Post by: Robson on December 25, 2017, 11:42:04 PM
Post by: jbaent on December 26, 2017, 09:11:24 AM
Has any journalist ever asked Mark what the Terminal of Tribute To is about?
Since the song it's "hidden" in the special deluxe box" I guess nobody even notice about it.
Post by: jbaent on December 26, 2017, 09:12:25 AM
Before this gets it's own life I just might point out that I just assumed or guessed about any drugs related to him.
LE
I assumed it too, long ago. There must be a reason MK has cut with him definitely, specially since MK didn't call him for the MK and friends gigs in 2002...
Post by: quizzaciously on December 26, 2017, 10:48:10 AM
Has any journalist ever asked Mark what the Terminal of Tribute To is about?
Funny, when 99% of journalists asks Mark about how he started on guitar and he tells, for the 7 millionth time a story about blowing his family's radio, I don't think anybody will ever ask such a personal question about a track hidden deep it "bonus tracks" section. Ask Guy if you want to get even more bonus laughs.
Post by: Robson on December 26, 2017, 12:47:45 PM
Post by: jbaent on December 26, 2017, 01:19:13 PM
It is true. Always the same questions ... No one has ever tried to ask why sometimes the best songs are hiding additional CDs.
Yes, many of us already asked that question, many times, and his answer is always something like "the songs that are not in the cd are not by a very good reason"
i understand they choose what they think fit better in the cd, all the songs together, and the rest, if they worth, go to the bonus tracks, and the rest go to the vault.
Post by: ds1984 on December 26, 2017, 03:15:01 PM
Alan and Guy stopped surfing together.
For long Alan almost muted.
One day on his own site he started to express his dissatisfaction about the way he joined Dire Straits without the helpful hand of a manager on his side - I guess in that case he would never have had the job like it happened to McGinnis in similar conditions.
Alan worked for EC and Tina Turner, he's a gifted musician but it seems something went wrong for him during the nineties as he disappeared form the musical scene. Since he has become its own shadow.
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 26, 2017, 05:51:58 PM
It’s a shame cos as a musician he was largely superior to GF.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 26, 2017, 10:54:53 PM
Alan was an outstanding musician. Highly creative with incredible technique and knowledge. I think he simply didn’t move on and got bitter instead of paving his own way outside DS. He had the skills and the name but chose another path. Now I see him in those interviews and he sounds pathetically delusional.How do we know all this?
It’s a shame cos as a musician he was largely superior to GF.
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Post by: Robson on December 26, 2017, 11:14:00 PM
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 26, 2017, 11:25:35 PM
Alan was an outstanding musician. Highly creative with incredible technique and knowledge. I think he simply didn’t move on and got bitter instead of paving his own way outside DS. He had the skills and the name but chose another path. Now I see him in those interviews and he sounds pathetically delusional.How do we know all this?
It’s a shame cos as a musician he was largely superior to GF.
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Well, what did Alan get up to after 1992 and before his tribute band? A world class musician like him? If he was to be credited as a songwriter for many DS songs as he claims why didn’t he start another band 20 years ago to prove his point? It’s all there.
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 26, 2017, 11:29:33 PM
It's hard to say if he was better. Everyone is different. Everyone has their own style
Guy fills all the gaps: good musician, good technician, good friend, good guy... but solely as a keyboardist I think he’s far behind Alan.
Post by: Robson on December 27, 2017, 12:18:11 AM
Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 08:07:13 AM
Alan was very good at some stage of DS's activity. But GF is more versatile
Alan was good at synthetizers as well, but MK needed someone capable to program a synclavier, that was pretty new at the time, and Guy was clever enough to learn how to do it when in Roxy Music, and that gave him the job with MK.
As a musician, Alan is far better, but a co-worker, Guy suits better MK demands. Probably Alan would try to push the music ahead, Guy would do just what MK wants or suggest just what he knows MK would agree.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 27, 2017, 09:57:10 AM
But that's my point, how do we know that he was incredibly creative and talented and came up with all these great arrangements himself? And what are we basing the opinion that he is better than GF on?Alan was an outstanding musician. Highly creative with incredible technique and knowledge. I think he simply didn’t move on and got bitter instead of paving his own way outside DS. He had the skills and the name but chose another path. Now I see him in those interviews and he sounds pathetically delusional.How do we know all this?
It’s a shame cos as a musician he was largely superior to GF.
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Well, what did Alan get up to after 1992 and before his tribute band? A world class musician like him? If he was to be credited as a songwriter for many DS songs as he claims why didn’t he start another band 20 years ago to prove his point? It’s all there.
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Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 11:03:15 AM
But that's my point, how do we know that he was incredibly creative and talented and came up with all these great arrangements himself? And what are we basing the opinion that he is better than GF on?Alan was an outstanding musician. Highly creative with incredible technique and knowledge. I think he simply didn’t move on and got bitter instead of paving his own way outside DS. He had the skills and the name but chose another path. Now I see him in those interviews and he sounds pathetically delusional.How do we know all this?
It’s a shame cos as a musician he was largely superior to GF.
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Well, what did Alan get up to after 1992 and before his tribute band? A world class musician like him? If he was to be credited as a songwriter for many DS songs as he claims why didn’t he start another band 20 years ago to prove his point? It’s all there.
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I´m not an expert in music but Alan played all the pianos, hammonds, all other kind of organs (what could be could the real stuff in keyboards) and even synths while Guy was only the synths one, even during the MK solo career, all that Alan used to play was played by "experts" like Jim Cox or Matt Rollings and Guy stayed as the synths one, but he started to play from time to time hammonds and during the NHB shows the piano. That's what I base my unexpert opinion about Alan being better than Guy, I might said "more complete" than better, probably. Actually, if I have to start a band, between them, I would choose Alan basing in that.
About why he didn't came out with anything else after DS disbanded... I guess that tour was too stressful for most of them. It took almost to 1995 to MK to start his solo career, John abandoned music until recently, Guy played with Bryan Ferry from time to time and wrote music for adds, documentaries etc, like Alan, the others, all session musicians, kept doing sessions, but the ones that were DS, according to OES, they took their time. Who knows what happened to Alan... if he really had any problems with alcohol or drugs, as sometimes someone point out, I guess it must had been during the period after DS disbanded. Actually I didn't hear about him until year 2000 that I saw his name in some records credits, being David Knopfler three consecutive records at the time one of those.
I find this credits, most of them are for compilations, some of them actual records, but I miss some, like the DS records where he played https://www.allmusic.com/artist/alan-clark-mn0000622884/credits
I even remember Alan and Guy worked together in some music for documentaries...
Post by: skydiver on December 27, 2017, 12:43:44 PM
But that's my point, how do we know that he was incredibly creative and talented and came up with all these great arrangements himself? And what are we basing the opinion that he is better than GF on?Alan was an outstanding musician. Highly creative with incredible technique and knowledge. I think he simply didn’t move on and got bitter instead of paving his own way outside DS. He had the skills and the name but chose another path. Now I see him in those interviews and he sounds pathetically delusional.How do we know all this?
It’s a shame cos as a musician he was largely superior to GF.
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Well, what did Alan get up to after 1992 and before his tribute band? A world class musician like him? If he was to be credited as a songwriter for many DS songs as he claims why didn’t he start another band 20 years ago to prove his point? It’s all there.
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Thanks dusty for bringing up your question!
This AC worshipping here (and MK&GF bashing) without actual inside knowledge is disgusting.
Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 01:07:50 PM
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 27, 2017, 01:30:14 PM
Actually, all are opinions and interpretations of this and that, the inside knowledge is not available for us.Exactly, I'm just asking if there is anything to base all this on.
A narrative has developed that AC was this genius who came up with all the good stuff while he was in the band.
I'm just wondering what evidence there is to support this?
OK, AC was the only keys person on LOG so we can assume that he came up with most of the keys parts. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe MK told him what to play. Fits in with the view that MK was a tough boss, right?
On BIA and OES we have GF. From memory GF said he came up with the intro to MFN. That's my own personal favourite section of EVERYTHING MK has ever done. Ever. But wait, AC is a better musician and GF is just a yes man, blah blah blah.
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Post by: Robson on December 27, 2017, 01:50:52 PM
This AC worshipping here (and MK&GF bashing) without actual inside knowledge is disgusting"
I have the same impression ???
Post by: PensaGhost on December 27, 2017, 02:02:42 PM
According to Mimmo Carrata who has more knowledge than all us put together, MK wrote all the piano/keyboards arrangements and AC
didn't create anything of his own during the DS
Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 02:26:53 PM
Actually, all are opinions and interpretations of this and that, the inside knowledge is not available for us.Exactly, I'm just asking if there is anything to base all this on.
A narrative has developed that AC was this genius who came up with all the good stuff while he was in the band.
I'm just wondering what evidence there is to support this?
There is not an evidence in absolute terms. It's an opinion, and as we say in Spain, opinion and ass are the same, everyone has one. ;D And it's not "that AC came up with all the good stuff", is that he came up with very nice adds here and there in many of the songs that made them sound great, obviosly, let's say, "the ice in the cake" of the great songs that MK brought to the studio, and to the stage. Sometimes, specially live, many of the arrangements made them even better, but that's again an opionion, as there may be people who can't stand keyboards and/or sax arrangements in, for example, Sultans Of Swing.
And, again, my opinion, during the live are without AC, these arrangements are not so nice, sometimes boring than in those years.
I guess tha point could be that English is not my main language, and I try to write as fast as I think, I do literal translation and forget to add "imho" everywhere and I may sound like I'm doing statements. It's not an excuse, it's my fault, I know I do this and I do very little to avoid it. I'm truly sorry for it. :-[
Quote
OK, AC was the only keys person on LOG so we can assume that he came up with most of the keys parts. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe MK told him what to play. Fits in with the view that MK was a tough boss, right?
Yes, it fits with what some of the musicians who played with him and talked about it said. My guess is that MK asks for a piano intro, a piano solo, a hammond here and there and it's the player who plays it without more indications than "play a piano part in a nostalgic way", or maybe MK whistle it note by note. When it comes to TR, what I read from AC is that both of them worked and built the song during the On Location tour soundchecks and rehearsals.
However, even MK was a tough boss, AC stayed in DS since the first day he put his feet in the band until the band disbanded, so I guess he coped very well with the tough boss and even managed to help to develope the songs in the studio and in the stage in the more succesful era of the band. Same than John, Guy and Chris.
Quote
On BIA and OES we have GF. From memory GF said he came up with the intro to MFN. That's my own personal favourite section of EVERYTHING MK has ever done. Ever. But wait, AC is a better musician and GF is just a yes man, blah blah blah.
For me is quite boring and I always skip it. BIA has too much synths for me, I don't like it, I preffer the organic sounds from pianos, hammonds etc from LOG. For me AC is better because what he plays, GF synths for me are boring, and when he plays hammonds, organs etc, it doesn't make me feel "wow, that sounds great", just ok.
And that Guy is a yes man, it's also an opinion, widely shared by many fans. Maybe not you, maybe not others and, as an opinion, can't not be the absolute truth.
I hope this time I put the correct amount of in my opinion to not hurt any feelings ;D and I want to add that these opinions are based on things I read from long ago in interviews from many people related to DS/MK since I follow the band, that I can't quote exactly as my memory is not so good, I cannot say exactly where and when I read Jack Sonni, Tommy Mandel, David Knopfler, Alan Clark, Chris White, Phil Palmer, John Illsley, Pick Withers, Willy De Ville, Guy Fletcher, Manu Katche, Paul Franklin etc etc etc etc etc saying this or that, but I do remember more or less what it was said in those interviews, although sometimes I can't remember exactly who said it :lol
Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 02:27:47 PM
MK plays the keyboards well too, he just likes the guitar more
According to Mimmo Carrata who has more knowledge than all us put together, MK wrote all the piano/keyboards arrangements and AC
didn't create anything of his own during the DS
Word of ghost.
My bet is that's Mimmo opinion as well. I know musicians whose opinion is that most of that piano/keyboards parts and arrangements needs of a knowledge of the instrument that can't come from a guitar player no matter how good he is.
Post by: dmg on December 27, 2017, 02:30:45 PM
Alan was very good at some stage of DS's activity. But GF is more versatile
Alan was good at synthetizers as well, but MK needed someone capable to program a synclavier, that was pretty new at the time, and Guy was clever enough to learn how to do it when in Roxy Music, and that gave him the job with MK.
As a musician, Alan is far better, but a co-worker, Guy suits better MK demands. Probably Alan would try to push the music ahead, Guy would do just what MK wants or suggest just what he knows MK would agree.
What we call a "yes man."
_________
Also, I've got to agree with Dusty regarding just how much influence AC has had on DS music and how much better he is than GF. Speculation to say the very least. If Mark is the strict boss we assume he is - the fall-outs back this up - then I doubt that he'd allow AC to compose major parts of his songs.
__________
Also, the last time they played together was the masterclass session in 1998 I think so they still spoke well after the OES tour. There was also the Swan Hunter thing in 1993 where he took GF's place in the Hillbillies line-up. So something happened between '98 and '02...
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 03:41:22 PM
But that's my point, how do we know that he was incredibly creative and talented and came up with all these great arrangements himself? And what are we basing the opinion that he is better than GF on?Alan was an outstanding musician. Highly creative with incredible technique and knowledge. I think he simply didn’t move on and got bitter instead of paving his own way outside DS. He had the skills and the name but chose another path. Now I see him in those interviews and he sounds pathetically delusional.How do we know all this?
It’s a shame cos as a musician he was largely superior to GF.
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Well, what did Alan get up to after 1992 and before his tribute band? A world class musician like him? If he was to be credited as a songwriter for many DS songs as he claims why didn’t he start another band 20 years ago to prove his point? It’s all there.
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I base my opinion on live performances mainly. But as jbaent said, GF is the perfect fit these days.
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 03:49:13 PM
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 27, 2017, 03:54:44 PM
Jim Cox and Matt Rollings are technically better musicians in my opinion...
Post by: PensaGhost on December 27, 2017, 04:09:38 PM
MK plays the keyboards well too, he just likes the guitar more
According to Mimmo Carrata who has more knowledge than all us put together, MK wrote all the piano/keyboards arrangements and AC
didn't create anything of his own during the DS
Word of ghost.
My bet is that's Mimmo opinion as well. I know musicians whose opinion is that most of that piano/keyboards parts and arrangements needs of a knowledge of the instrument that can't come from a guitar player no matter how good he is.
1) That theory doesn't work when you have a genius composing
2) MK knows how to play the piano
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 04:17:32 PM
Even based on live performances, I don't think AC plays anything that amazing. End of TOL, yes, but he is just copying Roy Bittan.
Jim Cox and Matt Rollings are technically better musicians in my opinion...
In terms of creativity it all comes down to who wrote the piano parts of Love Over Gold.
Regarding technique you have a good point there. Matt and Jim have insane technique indeed, but... I think Alan was a better rock’n roll keyboardist as a whole. Again, just my opinion/taste.
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 04:26:17 PM
MK plays the keyboards well too, he just likes the guitar more
According to Mimmo Carrata who has more knowledge than all us put together, MK wrote all the piano/keyboards arrangements and AC
didn't create anything of his own during the DS
Word of ghost.
My bet is that's Mimmo opinion as well. I know musicians whose opinion is that most of that piano/keyboards parts and arrangements needs of a knowledge of the instrument that can't come from a guitar player no matter how good he is.
1) That theory doesn't work when you have a genius composing
2) MK knows how to play the piano
Mark can play the piano, that’s true, just like Guy can play guitar and Richard can play bass guitar. That doesn’t mean much. I highly doubt Mark’s piano skills would allow him to write, for example, the piano parts Alan played in TR.
That being said, we have a few options here:
1. Mark played it on the guitar and Alan adapted it to the piano;
2. Mark gave Alan the key, chords and so on and Alan came up with everything;
3. Mark gave Alan ideas and directions and they worked together to perfect it.
1 and 2 sound rather unlikely to me. I’d bet on 3.
Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 04:27:01 PM
Even based on live performances, I don't think AC plays anything that amazing. End of TOL, yes, but he is just copying Roy Bittan.
Jim Cox and Matt Rollings are technically better musicians in my opinion...
I don't mean what Alan plays so well live, I mean, as a musical director, how good the arrangements were made live during his period of time, most of them keyboards parts. Of course all he did comes from MK wishes to add this and that, but the one who put into notes what Mk demanded was AC. We don't know from sure if MK said note by note to Alan what to play, but I bet he probably said "I need a musical passage between Portobello and TOL, something like dreaming music, let's see what you can do it"
Jim and Matt were very great players, I'd say technically better than AC, but as Ed says, to me AC is more rocker in his way of play.
Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 04:27:53 PM
MK plays the keyboards well too, he just likes the guitar more
According to Mimmo Carrata who has more knowledge than all us put together, MK wrote all the piano/keyboards arrangements and AC
didn't create anything of his own during the DS
Word of ghost.
My bet is that's Mimmo opinion as well. I know musicians whose opinion is that most of that piano/keyboards parts and arrangements needs of a knowledge of the instrument that can't come from a guitar player no matter how good he is.
1) That theory doesn't work when you have a genius composing
2) MK knows how to play the piano
Mark can play the piano, that’s true, just like Guy can play guitar and Richard can play bass guitar. That doesn’t mean much. I highly doubt Mark’s piano skills would allow him to write, for example, the piano parts Alan played in TR.
That being said, we have a few options here:
1. Mark played it on the guitar and Alan adapted it to the piano;
2. Mark gave Alan the key, chords and so on and Alan came up with everything;
3. Mark gave Alan ideas and directions and they worked together to perfect it.
1 and 2 sound rather unlikely to me. I’d bet on 3.
Me too
Post by: PensaGhost on December 27, 2017, 04:33:36 PM
MK plays the keyboards well too, he just likes the guitar more
According to Mimmo Carrata who has more knowledge than all us put together, MK wrote all the piano/keyboards arrangements and AC
didn't create anything of his own during the DS
Word of ghost.
My bet is that's Mimmo opinion as well. I know musicians whose opinion is that most of that piano/keyboards parts and arrangements needs of a knowledge of the instrument that can't come from a guitar player no matter how good he is.
1) That theory doesn't work when you have a genius composing
2) MK knows how to play the piano
Mark can play the piano, that’s true, just like Guy can play guitar and Richard can play bass guitar. That doesn’t mean much. I highly doubt Mark’s piano skills would allow him to write, for example, the piano parts Alan played in TR.
That being said, we have a few options here:
1. Mark played it on the guitar and Alan adapted it to the piano;
2. Mark gave Alan the key, chords and so on and Alan came up with everything;
3. Mark gave Alan ideas and directions and they worked together to perfect it.
1 and 2 sound rather unlikely to me. I’d bet on 3.
Do you know who Mimmo Carrata is ? He has endless rare stuff and knowledge that no worldwide fan has, including Telegraph Road without the fade out, Tunnel of Love with MK guitar intro instead of the piano, OES tour soundboards that no one has, and so on.
According to him Alan composed nothing, it's all done by MK.
I have no idea myself what is correct but Mimmo is the best one I can rely on.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 27, 2017, 04:37:31 PM
If he was such a genius you would think people would have been beating down AC's door to be their musical director during that time. To be fair to Alan I believe he worked with Jimmy Nail.
Post by: PensaGhost on December 27, 2017, 04:42:26 PM
All very interesting but you are still just guessing and the fact remains that MK with GF's assistance maintained a very successful solo career over 20 years while Alan Clark did nothing before eventually digging up the rotting corpse of DS.
If he was such a genius you would think people would have been beating down AC's door to be their musical director during that time. To be fair to Alan I believe he worked with Jimmy Nail.
yes I agree
Post by: Robson on December 27, 2017, 04:46:03 PM
All very interesting but you are still just guessing and the fact remains that MK with GF's assistance maintained a very successful solo career over 20 years while Alan Clark did nothing before eventually digging up the rotting corpse of DS.
If he was such a genius you would think people would have been beating down AC's door to be their musical director during that time. To be fair to Alan I believe he worked with Jimmy
:thumbsup
Post by: Robson on December 27, 2017, 04:46:29 PM
Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 04:52:51 PM
All very interesting but you are still just guessing and the fact remains that MK with GF's assistance maintained a very successful solo career over 20 years while Alan Clark did nothing before eventually digging up the rotting corpse of DS.
If he was such a genius you would think people would have been beating down AC's door to be their musical director during that time. To be fair to Alan I believe he worked with Jimmy Nail.
A creative sideman and a genius are very different people.
You can be very creative adding things to your bosses music, specially if they are genius. To create brilliant songs from zero is another different challenge.
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 05:39:01 PM
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 05:41:31 PM
All very interesting but you are still just guessing and the fact remains that MK with GF's assistance maintained a very successful solo career over 20 years while Alan Clark did nothing before eventually digging up the rotting corpse of DS.
If he was such a genius you would think people would have been beating down AC's door to be their musical director during that time. To be fair to Alan I believe he worked with Jimmy Nail.
A creative sideman and a genius are very different people.
You can be very creative adding things to your bosses music, specially if they are genius. To create brilliant songs from zero is another different challenge.
You said it all. I think people are letting the legacy thing cloud their judgement on Alan’s musicianship.
I try to analyze things separately.
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 06:00:20 PM
Read More: Inside 'The Straits' With Former Dire Straits Keyboardist Alan Clark | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/dire-straits-alan-clark-2014/?trackback=tsmclip
Alan Clark
Well, it sounds pretty feasible to my ears. Mark wrote it and Alan gave his input when translating it to the piano, so to speak. I don’t know Mimmo and I think Alan has become a douche but I trust the latter on this one.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 27, 2017, 06:16:40 PM
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Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 06:18:53 PM
That still doesn't prove anything! That could still be AC transposing parts MK had written!
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Dusty... I feel like paying you an ale pint...
:)
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 06:23:09 PM
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 27, 2017, 06:23:16 PM
We could go round in circles! We'll never know but you would think AC would have definitively said "I wrote the piano part" if that was what happened rather than make vague statements that are open to interpretation.That still doesn't prove anything! That could still be AC transposing parts MK had written!
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Dusty... I feel like paying you an ale pint...
:)
Or he could do what my cousin Bobby did:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/2783237.stm
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Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 06:25:49 PM
Post by: Robson on December 27, 2017, 06:28:33 PM
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 06:29:02 PM
We could go round in circles! We'll never know but you would think AC would have definitively said "I wrote the piano part" if that was what happened rather than make vague statements that are open to interpretation.That still doesn't prove anything! That could still be AC transposing parts MK had written!
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Dusty... I feel like paying you an ale pint...
:)
Or he could do what my cousin Bobby did:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/2783237.stm
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Lol Alan did not make vague assumptions. He simply described what the process of building a song is like.
I’ve done it dozens of times and it’s extremely pleasant and rewarding. I don’t think you know how it works.
Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 06:32:55 PM
You said it all. I think people are letting the legacy thing cloud their judgement on Alan’s musicianship.
I try to analyze things separately.
Exactly
Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 06:34:07 PM
Mark is the author and Alan certainly had some contribution. It's easy for me ... Alan had a natural function in the band ...
DS legacy clouds are clearing
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 06:35:23 PM
Mark is the author and Alan certainly had some contribution. It's easy for me ... Alan had a natural function in the band ...
That’s exactly what Alan says. It’s pretty simple: Mark writes it and goes through the tune with Alan. If Alan comes up with an idea Mark likes it makes the cut. Last word is Mark’s. End of story. The question is how much of Alan’s made the cut. I don’t understand why people get all offended over the possibility of Alan having an important role in the making of the song.
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 06:37:09 PM
Mark is the author and Alan certainly had some contribution. It's easy for me ... Alan had a natural function in the band ...
DS legacy clouds are clearing
Looks like it! Lol
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 27, 2017, 06:37:26 PM
No, I couldn't possibly know how to collaborate on a song, that's obviously something I would be incapable of. It's amazing how much you know about me given the extremely limited amount of interaction we have had together on an internet forum.We could go round in circles! We'll never know but you would think AC would have definitively said "I wrote the piano part" if that was what happened rather than make vague statements that are open to interpretation.That still doesn't prove anything! That could still be AC transposing parts MK had written!
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Dusty... I feel like paying you an ale pint...
:)
Or he could do what my cousin Bobby did:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/2783237.stm
Sent from my Tab2A7-20F using Tapatalk
Lol Alan did not make vague assumptions. He simply described what the process of building a song is like.
I’ve done it dozens of times and it’s extremely pleasant and rewarding. I don’t think you know how it works.
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Post by: dustyvalentino on December 27, 2017, 06:39:36 PM
I lost interest in going round in circles. Now I rather share some pints with you ;)I'll send a pm to let you know when :)
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Post by: Robson on December 27, 2017, 06:42:19 PM
Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 06:48:32 PM
No, I couldn't possibly know how to collaborate on a song, that's obviously something I would be incapable of. It's amazing how much you know about me given the extremely limited amount of interaction we have had together on an internet forum.We could go round in circles! We'll never know but you would think AC would have definitively said "I wrote the piano part" if that was what happened rather than make vague statements that are open to interpretation.That still doesn't prove anything! That could still be AC transposing parts MK had written!
Sent from my Tab2A7-20F using Tapatalk
Dusty... I feel like paying you an ale pint...
:)
Or he could do what my cousin Bobby did:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/2783237.stm
Sent from my Tab2A7-20F using Tapatalk
Lol Alan did not make vague assumptions. He simply described what the process of building a song is like.
I’ve done it dozens of times and it’s extremely pleasant and rewarding. I don’t think you know how it works.
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Dusty is more than a Hillbilly. He has his own gang!
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 06:49:23 PM
I don’t take things personally on internet forums though.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 27, 2017, 07:07:29 PM
Post by: jbaent on December 27, 2017, 07:12:37 PM
Did any of you noticed the DS and MK songs references in the song " twisting the knife"?
Obviously there are two in the title. In the lyrics there are mentions to DS's Telegraph Road and to two music score songs, "happy ending" and "as low as it gets"
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 07:57:59 PM
I'm glad you are appreciating my work. It's difficult being slightly aggressive. Being fully aggressive just isn't the British way you see and everybody loves a bit of aggression, but just a slight amount.
I’m brazilian, brazilians know how to handle aggression pretty well. I personally have to deal with aggression all the time in my line of work. Piece of cake.
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 27, 2017, 08:03:09 PM
About twisting...
Did any of you noticed the DS and MK songs references in the song " twisting the knife"?
Obviously there are two in the title. In the lyrics there are mentions to DS's Telegraph Road and to two music score songs, "happy ending" and "as low as it gets"
Not really. Didn’t pay too much attention to any lyrics apart from 3 chord trick to be honest... what does it say?
Talking about 3 chord trick, I was wondering if the title isn’t a direct reference to the sultans of swing main riff. It has three chords and is all Mark needs to bring the house down. Makes sense?
Post by: ds1984 on December 27, 2017, 09:10:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azDoSoZUBCc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azDoSoZUBCc)
Post by: JF on December 28, 2017, 11:55:47 AM
On the oldifield book (a book that has been approved by the band and MK) it is written that during the OL tour, Alan had to re-arrange old songs, and to arrange new songs with only one keyboard player, while studio versions contains several keyboard parts. And of course "building" Telegraph road.
Of course the line between "arrangements" and "composition" is tiny, so it's always difficult to determine if a musician had a "big" part in a song or not.
"Money" or "another brick in the wall part 2" are credited only by Waters. but on both songs, the guitar solos are not only "solos", imho, they are "melodies" of the song that almost all people who know the songs can sing. Should we consider these parts as "composed" elements, or only musicians "contributions" ? I must admit I don't have the answer.
Is a song only a melody and a chord progression ? or should we take all arangements (tempos, rhythm pattern, sounds, instruments...) as "parts" of the composition ?. I don't think the answer can be always clear and simple
I think that if you name the song "baker street", you will immediately hear the saxophone theme. But was the saxophonist credited for "composing" the song ? I don't think so. Should he have been credited ?
I think Alan had a "big" part. I don't know how much it can be named as "contribution" or "composition"
Funnily, when the person involved is famous, then all come with lawerrs : Sting is credited for MFN, just for a melody line, but as Dusty said, maybe that Guy had a bigger role in the song...
another example : songs credited by lennon-McCartney... we all know that after 65-66, it wasn't the case. and "revolution 9" was done by John, Yoko and George, but is credited to Lennon-McCartney !
so yes, I think we will never know for sure
Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 12:17:18 PM
In other bands it happens the same but the only one who gets the credit is the one who wrote the song, even the bassist, the keyboardist or the drummer came during the recording with anything important.
In Pink Floyd, to play a great solo, that probably comes from Gilmour's 100% didn't get him credit, but if he came with guitar riffs that were key in the song he got his credit, something like "music by Gilmour, lyrics by Waters". I wonder if Richard Wright add his keyboard parts from his own without being credited...
Why is Guy not credited by having the idea of the MFN intro and probably create that intro, but Sting is, just because the "I want my mtv" melody sounded similar to "don't stand so close to me" by The Police? Probably as JF says, because Sting had a manager who insisted and a lawyer behind. And, probably Guy thought that it didn't worth to ask for credit and loose the job, as probably most of the sessions musicians would think when it comes to add his parts without being credited.
I recall Guy said once in his forum that "create your parts and add them to the songs is part of the job for what you are paid for". Well, true, but go back to the Led Zeppelin or Toto examples...
It's a thin line, yes.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 28, 2017, 12:42:49 PM
With regards to the song title, I think we can read too much into it, probably just a play on Three Card Trick
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-card_Monte
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Post by: JF on December 28, 2017, 01:03:17 PM
He was credited for ventilator blues only
for band giving credits to all musicians, it is often the case at the start and then it changes on next albums
for example, Genesis did this on their firsts albums, and you have the paradox of the instrumental "horizons" (on Foxtrot 1972) credited for all band members, while it is obvioulsly composed only by Hackett. Imagine, all times Hackett plays his tune in concert, he has to pay all other ex-Genesis members ?!!
After Gabriel's departure, "the trick of the tail" was the first album with musicians names credits
Post by: JF on December 28, 2017, 01:15:10 PM
In Pink Floyd, to play a great solo, that probably comes from Gilmour's 100% didn't get him credit, but if he came with guitar riffs that were key in the song he got his credit, something like "music by Gilmour, lyrics by Waters". I wonder if Richard Wright add his keyboard parts from his own without being credited...
Comfortably numb is credited : lyrics Waters, music Waters and Gilmour, but Gilmour claimed that music was only him (he did a demo for his 1978 solo album)
Richard was credited on many songs, so I guess that all of his inputs were credited (shine on ,echoes, time, etc...)
but imho, Gilour's contrubtion in songs like Money or another brick part 1 &2, are as importants as on others songs
i'd say that these songs are famous, mostly for his contributions, equally as the song melody
I know it can't be a proof, but I would say that what makes a song "famous" (intro, outro, instrumental part, riff, melody line, etc..) should be considered as an "important" part of the song, and the guy who brought this idea should be "considered" as co-creator of the song, but of course it's very difficult to determine what is "important" in a song
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 28, 2017, 01:40:32 PM
What I WOULD be interested to know is this:
Who wrote the keyboard melodies on Walk of Life and Industrial Disease? Because if it wasn't MK then whoever it was should get a writing credit...
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Post by: Robson on December 28, 2017, 01:46:16 PM
Exactly. That is why some MK songs need, for example, a violin and some flutes.
Post by: Robson on December 28, 2017, 01:52:07 PM
Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 01:52:59 PM
In Pink Floyd, to play a great solo, that probably comes from Gilmour's 100% didn't get him credit, but if he came with guitar riffs that were key in the song he got his credit, something like "music by Gilmour, lyrics by Waters". I wonder if Richard Wright add his keyboard parts from his own without being credited...
Comfortably numb is credited : lyrics Waters, music Waters and Gilmour, but Gilmour claimed that music was only him (he did a demo for his 1978 solo album)
Richard was credited on many songs, so I guess that all of his inputs were credited (shine on ,echoes, time, etc...)
but imho, Gilour's contrubtion in songs like Money or another brick part 1 &2, are as importants as on others songs
i'd say that these songs are famous, mostly for his contributions, equally as the song melody
I know it can't be a proof, but I would say that what makes a song "famous" (intro, outro, instrumental part, riff, melody line, etc..) should be considered as an "important" part of the song, and the guy who brought this idea should be "considered" as co-creator of the song, but of course it's very difficult to determine what is "important" in a song
Exactly, that's why I don't agree with Guy's statement that musicians are paid not only to play but also add whatever the song needed. If you play something that is created by you, even under guidelines from the author of the song, you should be credited because the song is a whole, not only the lyrics and the basic rythmic track.
But when it comes to professional musicians, I guess they don't mind very much about it, but when you are in a band, like Dire Straits was, others members contributions should had been credited. Pick grooves were also important and a trademark of those DS early days, Alan arrangements from LOG onwards and live, Guy deserved to be credited in MFN more than Sting, as already mentioned etc etc. At least in the OES record Alan and Guy managed to be credited, just as producers, not composers, but something is something.
Again, it's a thin line. MK was the genius that wrote the songs, but it looks logical to think that other helped him to put clothes on the naked body of the songs. We don't know how much input are from the others, really, and probably we won't know.
Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 01:54:43 PM
So this is all very interesting and I'm not trying to downplay the contributions that other musicians have made to MK's songs over the years but really most of the "hooks" have been guitar or lyrically based.
What I WOULD be interested to know is this:
Who wrote the keyboard melodies on Walk of Life and Industrial Disease? Because if it wasn't MK then whoever it was should get a writing credit...
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Or Guy with the MFN intro...
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 28, 2017, 01:58:00 PM
Walk of Life I would argue was a hit because of the keyboard line...
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Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 02:02:18 PM
See, I love the intro, but I don't think that's why it was a hit. It was a hit because of the riff and the lyrics.
Walk of Life I would argue was a hit because of the keyboard line...
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I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody, and that the song was very close to be left out of the record as they consider it as a kind of funny song but not serious enough to be on the record. I can't recall who were the "they" but imagine they had left it out...
About MFN. A song is the sum of all the parts. What made the song famous was the guitar riff and the lyrics, but the intro is also well known, and an important part of it, at least until 1990 that dissapeared for the first time ;D
Post by: JF on December 28, 2017, 02:15:16 PM
about Industrial disease, I have more doubts, and won't be surprised if Alan gave the idea.
On the contrary, the organ melody at the start of it never rains, seems to come from the guitar line, so by Mark
and what about the sax melody on your latest trick ?....do you think Mark played it on guitar to Brecker ?
Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 02:19:15 PM
Yes I'm quite 100% sure that the walk of line organ melody is by Mark
about Industrial disease, I have more doubts, and won't be surprised if Alan gave the idea.
On the contrary, the organ melody at the start of it never rains, seems to come from the guitar line, so by Mark
and what about the sax melody on your latest trick ?....do you think Mark played it on guitar to Brecker ?
probably.
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 28, 2017, 02:23:09 PM
It's tricky territory. When I think of Layla for instance the very first thing that pops up is the guitar riff - but Clapton didn't write that, Duane Allman did. For some reason I don't understand Allman was never credited for that...
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 28, 2017, 02:27:10 PM
See, I love the intro, but I don't think that's why it was a hit. It was a hit because of the riff and the lyrics.
Walk of Life I would argue was a hit because of the keyboard line...
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I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody, and that the song was very close to be left out of the record as they consider it as a kind of funny song but not serious enough to be on the record. I can't recall who were the "they" but imagine they had left it out...
About MFN. A song is the sum of all the parts. What made the song famous was the guitar riff and the lyrics, but the intro is also well known, and an important part of it, at least until 1990 that dissapeared for the first time ;D
Didn't Mark explain how the intro was created before announcing Sting in the Montserrat concert?
Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 02:30:39 PM
See, I love the intro, but I don't think that's why it was a hit. It was a hit because of the riff and the lyrics.
Walk of Life I would argue was a hit because of the keyboard line...
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I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody, and that the song was very close to be left out of the record as they consider it as a kind of funny song but not serious enough to be on the record. I can't recall who were the "they" but imagine they had left it out...
About MFN. A song is the sum of all the parts. What made the song famous was the guitar riff and the lyrics, but the intro is also well known, and an important part of it, at least until 1990 that dissapeared for the first time ;D
Didn't Mark explain how the intro was created before announcing Sting in the Montserrat concert?
I'm not sure. I think what he told was that Sting happened to be on holydays at Montserrat and he came up at the studio to say Hi and ended singing in MFN.
I read somewhere that Sting was looking for Omar Hakim to play with him but he didn't manage to find him, and when in Montserrat he discovered he was there recording with DS!!! Sting met Omar there and agreed to join his band.
Post by: PensaGhost on December 28, 2017, 02:47:51 PM
I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody
Wrong, it was created by Alan Clark with the contribution of Mickey Mouse and Chewbacca
Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 02:49:40 PM
I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody
Wrong, it was created by Alan Clark with the contribution of Mickey Mouse and Chewbacca
I was wondering... If you run away from here again, and after a while come back... Would you name yourself Pensaghost ghost?
Post by: PensaGhost on December 28, 2017, 03:03:04 PM
I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody
Wrong, it was created by Alan Clark with the contribution of Mickey Mouse and Chewbacca
I was wondering... If you run away from here again, and after a while come back... Would you name yourself Pensaghost ghost?
I will ask Alan Clark, he has good ideas
Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 03:04:53 PM
I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody
Wrong, it was created by Alan Clark with the contribution of Mickey Mouse and Chewbacca
I was wondering... If you run away from here again, and after a while come back... Would you name yourself Pensaghost ghost?
I will ask Alan Clark, he has good ideas
And if you run away then, you could be the ghost of Pensaghost ghost.
Don't forget to delete all your ghosts posts, ghost.
Post by: PensaGhost on December 28, 2017, 03:17:13 PM
I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody
Wrong, it was created by Alan Clark with the contribution of Mickey Mouse and Chewbacca
I was wondering... If you run away from here again, and after a while come back... Would you name yourself Pensaghost ghost?
I will ask Alan Clark, he has good ideas
And if you run away then, you could be the ghost of Pensaghost ghost.
Don't forget to delete all your ghosts posts, ghost.
You Should Relax
Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 03:21:37 PM
I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody
Wrong, it was created by Alan Clark with the contribution of Mickey Mouse and Chewbacca
You should relax too, ghost.
Post by: PensaGhost on December 28, 2017, 03:28:01 PM
I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody
Wrong, it was created by Alan Clark with the contribution of Mickey Mouse and Chewbacca
You should relax too, ghost.
man, I can joke as much as I want and delete my posts as much as I want, none of your business
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 28, 2017, 03:36:09 PM
See, I love the intro, but I don't think that's why it was a hit. It was a hit because of the riff and the lyrics.
Walk of Life I would argue was a hit because of the keyboard line...
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I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody, and that the song was very close to be left out of the record as they consider it as a kind of funny song but not serious enough to be on the record. I can't recall who were the "they" but imagine they had left it out...
About MFN. A song is the sum of all the parts. What made the song famous was the guitar riff and the lyrics, but the intro is also well known, and an important part of it, at least until 1990 that dissapeared for the first time ;D
Didn't Mark explain how the intro was created before announcing Sting in the Montserrat concert?
I'm not sure. I think what he told was that Sting happened to be on holydays at Montserrat and he came up at the studio to say Hi and ended singing in MFN.
I read somewhere that Sting was looking for Omar Hakim to play with him but he didn't manage to find him, and when in Montserrat he discovered he was there recording with DS!!! Sting met Omar there and agreed to join his band.
He’s kinda vague about the process but he basically says he came up with the idea and would really like to get Sting to sing in it. But as I said before, it’s a process. Mark has the ideas, shows them to the band, gives some directions and voila. At least that’s what happens in general according to the man himself.
Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 03:44:19 PM
I recall reading Bicknell saying MK was having fun with a farfisa organ and came up with the famous melody
Wrong, it was created by Alan Clark with the contribution of Mickey Mouse and Chewbacca
You should relax too, ghost.
man, I can joke as much as I want and delete my posts as much as I want, none of your business
I might had listened a ghost whisper or something
Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 03:56:40 PM
He’s kinda vague about the process but he basically says he came up with the idea and would really like to get Sting to sing in it. But as I said before, it’s a process. Mark has the ideas, shows them to the band, gives some directions and voila. At least that’s what happens in general according to the man himself.
The process about how a song starts with just MK voice and guitar and ends with a song full of instruments is so interesting, at least to me... A mystery how every part is created and from where it comes...
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 28, 2017, 04:42:34 PM
He’s kinda vague about the process but he basically says he came up with the idea and would really like to get Sting to sing in it. But as I said before, it’s a process. Mark has the ideas, shows them to the band, gives some directions and voila. At least that’s what happens in general according to the man himself.
The process about how a song starts with just MK voice and guitar and ends with a song full of instruments is so interesting, at least to me... A mystery how every part is created and from where it comes...
I think it all comes down to song is king. For example, let's say that Mark plays a song to the band for the very first time and tells Ian what he wants the drums to be like. Ian plays what Mark asked but then says "boss, I have an idea". They go through the song again but now Ian plays something different from what Mark had asked. It sounds way better to everyone, including Mark. So, what happens now? It's pretty simple: Mark won't say no if he likes it better. How could he? Last word being Mark's doesn't necessarily mean only his ideas make the final cut. What's the point in having such outstanding musicians at your disposal if they are there just to execute what you tell them to? Of course you count on them to bring something into your songs. This whole idea that Mark wrote every bit of TR is surreal to me because of that.
Post by: Love Expresso on December 28, 2017, 06:24:52 PM
All small hints about the way they work if you are able to read between the lines and have some imagination from my point of view.
LE
Post by: Love Expresso on December 28, 2017, 06:34:08 PM
LE
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 28, 2017, 06:38:57 PM
I agree. Mark said somewhere that the "Take Five" intro style and therefore the complete drumming on LAJADAS was an idea of Ianto. Also the shanty-like background singing on the same song came from the band because "they were just there." He once said about Donegan's Gone that he planned it as a three-piece but Jim just came up with these little organ sounds. He promoted You Don't Know You Are Born on the radio with praising the drive and knowledge of Chad Cromwell's drumming that made the playing-out what it was. He explained that Rudiger found it's music more than 20 years later because of he 96ers. I am pretty sure Richard's jazzy chords knowledge was a big part of this influence, and just the possibility to have an up right bass Player with Glen Worf made many things come alive the way we know it. Guy once said he played bass on one of te KTGC tracks but when Glen Worf arrived he showed him how to do it properly. Sounds not like Mark gives many detailed instructions to a veteran studio Musician like Glen...
All small hints about the way they work if you are able to read between the lines and have some imagination from my point of view.
LE
I couldn’t have illustrated it better. Very good examples, LE.
Post by: ds1984 on December 28, 2017, 08:28:24 PM
We have example of what used to be considered as only a contribution, sometimes compensated by session fee, are now ruled as legitimate claim for credit and to name a few : Claire Torry, Matthew Fisher, or Bobby Valentino.
Post by: jbaent on December 28, 2017, 08:50:56 PM
Post by: dmg on December 28, 2017, 08:59:31 PM
Alan has said something in Facebook that fits with this thread...
Think he needs to recharge his batteries - he's getting brain fade! :lol
Post by: quizzaciously on December 28, 2017, 09:43:05 PM
I agree. Mark said somewhere that the "Take Five" intro style and therefore the complete drumming on LAJADAS was an idea of Ianto. Also the shanty-like background singing on the same song came from the band because "they were just there." He once said about Donegan's Gone that he planned it as a three-piece but Jim just came up with these little organ sounds. He promoted You Don't Know You Are Born on the radio with praising the drive and knowledge of Chad Cromwell's drumming that made the playing-out what it was. He explained that Rudiger found it's music more than 20 years later because of he 96ers. I am pretty sure Richard's jazzy chords knowledge was a big part of this influence, and just the possibility to have an up right bass Player with Glen Worf made many things come alive the way we know it. Guy once said he played bass on one of te KTGC tracks but when Glen Worf arrived he showed him how to do it properly. Sounds not like Mark gives many detailed instructions to a veteran studio Musician like Glen...
Not only being a session musician for Mark is a job, it's a huge opportunity for your career. How many musicians associates with MK only? You open up Wikipedia article about Jack Sonni and what it says literally is: Jack Sonni is a writer, musician and former marketing executive best known as "the other guitarist" in Dire Straits during the band's Brothers in Arms era. "The other guitarist", get it? I think it was an equal exchange between Alan and Mark. MK got his music arranged, Alan got HUGE boost marketing-wise. It's fair play!
Post by: Stanko on December 29, 2017, 12:01:46 AM
Post by: JF on December 29, 2017, 12:14:02 AM
I'm positively sure Mark wrote the Walk of Life intro/riff, he's said it himself a couple of times in interviews.
It's tricky territory. When I think of Layla for instance the very first thing that pops up is the guitar riff - but Clapton didn't write that, Duane Allman did. For some reason I don't understand Allman was never credited for that...
Duane took the melody line in the old blues "as the years go passing by", and played it faster to get the riff. Maybe it's why he wasn't credited.
Gordon is credited for the piano outro, but Withlock claimed later that it was him who composed this part.I read it in an interview. Who says the truth, we will never know
Post by: JF on December 29, 2017, 12:16:48 AM
This whole idea that Mark wrote every bit of TR is surreal to me because of that.
fully agree. Even if Mark can play keyboard, it's obvious that many parts/bits/lines (call it what you want) were "composed" by Alan, but it was emulation between him and Mark during soundchecks, and I bet that each one gave ideas to the other.
Post by: JF on December 29, 2017, 12:17:32 AM
I agree. Mark said somewhere that the "Take Five" intro style and therefore the complete drumming on LAJADAS was an idea of Ianto. Also the shanty-like background singing on the same song came from the band because "they were just there." He once said about Donegan's Gone that he planned it as a three-piece but Jim just came up with these little organ sounds. He promoted You Don't Know You Are Born on the radio with praising the drive and knowledge of Chad Cromwell's drumming that made the playing-out what it was. He explained that Rudiger found it's music more than 20 years later because of he 96ers. I am pretty sure Richard's jazzy chords knowledge was a big part of this influence, and just the possibility to have an up right bass Player with Glen Worf made many things come alive the way we know it. Guy once said he played bass on one of te KTGC tracks but when Glen Worf arrived he showed him how to do it properly. Sounds not like Mark gives many detailed instructions to a veteran studio Musician like Glen...
All small hints about the way they work if you are able to read between the lines and have some imagination from my point of view.
LE
I couldn’t have illustrated it better. Very good examples, LE.
yes 100% agree :thumbsup
Post by: JF on December 29, 2017, 12:19:43 AM
Musician are not always credited, sometime settlement outside of court and public scope are made. Sting was offered the choice and (wisely) decided to be credited.
We have example of what used to be considered as only a contribution, sometimes compensated by session fee, are now ruled as legitimate claim for credit and to name a few : Claire Torry, Matthew Fisher, or Bobby Valentino.
yes indeed, Clare Torry for great gig is the best example in rock history. I read somewhere that she will now be credited on further releases. I don't have a "new" Dark side release. Can someone confirm ?
Post by: JF on December 29, 2017, 12:21:18 AM
indeed where is the line ? :think
Post by: JF on December 29, 2017, 12:24:27 AM
Musician are not always credited, sometime settlement outside of court and public scope are made. Sting was offered the choice and (wisely) decided to be credited.
I think someone posted here that Sting didn't want to be credited, but his lawyer insisted for that and Sting was embarassed
Post by: Pottel on December 29, 2017, 09:39:08 AM
Same story with the "wall kids" . They got the record for their efforts. After initially complaining they had received nothingMusician are not always credited, sometime settlement outside of court and public scope are made. Sting was offered the choice and (wisely) decided to be credited.
We have example of what used to be considered as only a contribution, sometimes compensated by session fee, are now ruled as legitimate claim for credit and to name a few : Claire Torry, Matthew Fisher, or Bobby Valentino.
yes indeed, Clare Torry for great gig is the best example in rock history. I read somewhere that she will now be credited on further releases. I don't have a "new" Dark side release. Can someone confirm ?
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Post by: jbaent on December 29, 2017, 05:46:14 PM
Post by: PensaGhost on December 29, 2017, 06:13:41 PM
Ridiculous
Post by: Love Expresso on December 29, 2017, 07:33:29 PM
LE
Post by: JF on December 29, 2017, 07:35:08 PM
Same story with the "wall kids" . They got the record for their efforts. After initially complaining they had received nothing
I find it's a complete different story : the kids sung the melody composed by Waters, they didn't "create" anything
Clare Torry sung an improvisation above Rick's piano lines. the vocal melody came entirely from his mind, not from Rick's one. He composed "only" the chord progression an piano lines, not the vocal melody.
Thta's why I find that she desserves credits, not the kids
Post by: JF on December 29, 2017, 07:36:03 PM
Legally he can't say he co-wrote it, but at the same time he is using other words to say he basically did
Ridiculous
it's exactly the subject of this thread : the legal definition is not always the exact defintion of what is going in the real life. it's a little bit more complex than what is legally correct or no.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 29, 2017, 07:48:34 PM
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Post by: PensaGhost on December 29, 2017, 07:50:30 PM
Legally he can't say he co-wrote it, but at the same time he is using other words to say he basically did
Ridiculous
it's exactly the subject of this thread : the legal definition is not always the exact defintion of what is going in the real life. it's a little bit more complex than what is legally correct or no.
Yes, but anyone could claim anything
He says he wrote the piano parts on his own? or did MK write them and he only 'adapted' them?
did he cowrite the song or not ? Legally no but technically yes ?
That's a ridiculous discussion
Post by: jbaent on December 29, 2017, 08:06:14 PM
Post by: dmg on December 29, 2017, 08:30:27 PM
I can't find any bad attitude or wrong judgment in what Alan Clark wrote. I think he sums it up pretty accurate to be fair.
LE
I think he's very vague in what he says. He could elaborate and say if his parts are based on something Mark had written, if he did it in collaboration with Mark, if he did these parts alone handed it to Mark and he went along with it or maybe Mark adapted Alan's suggestions.
This vagueness has always suggested to me his part in DS isn't quite as relevant as he seems to remember.
Post by: PensaGhost on December 29, 2017, 09:02:15 PM
I can't find any bad attitude or wrong judgment in what Alan Clark wrote. I think he sums it up pretty accurate to be fair.
LE
I think he's very vague in what he says. He could elaborate and say if his parts are based on something Mark had written, if he did it in collaboration with Mark, if he did these parts alone handed it to Mark and he went along with it or maybe Mark adapted Alan's suggestions.
This vagueness has always suggested to me his part in DS isn't quite as relevant as he seems to remember.
dmg 100% :thumbsup
Post by: ds1984 on December 29, 2017, 09:06:38 PM
Same story with the "wall kids" . They got the record for their efforts. After initially complaining they had received nothing
I find it's a complete different story : the kids sung the melody composed by Waters, they didn't "create" anything
The kids on ABITWP2 are Bob's idea because he already did that on Alice Cooper's School's Out that he produced.
Right they only performed pre written music.
Now for the money, the problem lies int he fact that this is the school that was awarded the £1000 fee but not the children themselves.
And as performer they were entitled to get royalties over records sales and airing.
Post by: ds1984 on December 29, 2017, 09:15:29 PM
I can't find any bad attitude or wrong judgment in what Alan Clark wrote. I think he sums it up pretty accurate to be fair.
LE
I think he's very vague in what he says. He could elaborate and say if his parts are based on something Mark had written, if he did it in collaboration with Mark, if he did these parts alone handed it to Mark and he went along with it or maybe Mark adapted Alan's suggestions.
This vagueness has always suggested to me his part in DS isn't quite as relevant as he seems to remember.
Mark wrote the melody.
Alan Clark is publicly not claiming credits.
Ends of the Alan's bashing case (on that matter).
Post by: herlock on December 29, 2017, 09:22:57 PM
" hi Vincent, I never said I co-wrote Telegraph Road, the reason being because I didn't. Mark wrote that song. What I did do was play a big part in it's evolution, in its arrangement by coming up with the piano parts while it was being written. Some people might argue that was co-writing; I don't."
I then asked him if he felt targeted by TOTT and talked to MK about it. The answer was:
"No, Vincent, I don't feel targeted personally, and no, I haven't talked to him about it."
"
Post by: PensaGhost on December 29, 2017, 09:38:19 PM
I can't find any bad attitude or wrong judgment in what Alan Clark wrote. I think he sums it up pretty accurate to be fair.
LE
I think he's very vague in what he says. He could elaborate and say if his parts are based on something Mark had written, if he did it in collaboration with Mark, if he did these parts alone handed it to Mark and he went along with it or maybe Mark adapted Alan's suggestions.
This vagueness has always suggested to me his part in DS isn't quite as relevant as he seems to remember.
Mark wrote the melody.
Alan Clark is publicly not claiming credits.
Ends of the Alan's bashing case (on that matter).
LOL Mark wrote the whole song, not just the melody, Clark never claimed credits and never will because there's no way he can claim anything at all, this doesn't end the bashing case at all actually that's exactly why there's a case, that's he makes very vague
and completely unsupported by evidence claims after 35 years
Post by: jbaent on December 29, 2017, 09:49:48 PM
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 29, 2017, 09:55:18 PM
Mark wrote the melody.
Alan Clark is publicly not claiming credits.
Ends of the Alan's bashing case (on that matter).
Agreed 100%.
Let's get back to bashing AC for how awful what "Legacy" are doing is. ;)
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Post by: PensaGhost on December 29, 2017, 10:10:20 PM
Let's get back to bashing AC for how awful what "Legacy" are doing is. ;)
ahah
Post by: Pottel on December 29, 2017, 10:34:35 PM
TrueSame story with the "wall kids" . They got the record for their efforts. After initially complaining they had received nothing
I find it's a complete different story : the kids sung the melody composed by Waters, they didn't "create" anything
Clare Torry sung an improvisation above Rick's piano lines. the vocal melody came entirely from his mind, not from Rick's one. He composed "only" the chord progression an piano lines, not the vocal melody.
Thta's why I find that she desserves credits, not the kids
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Post by: dustyvalentino on December 29, 2017, 10:47:38 PM
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Post by: Eddie Fox on December 30, 2017, 10:04:24 AM
In my humble opinion Alan is a hell of a musician. As a human being, well, that's another story. I try to deal with things separetely.
Post by: JF on December 30, 2017, 11:43:16 AM
In my humble opinion Alan is a hell of a musician. As a human being, well, that's another story. I try to deal with things separetely.
:thumbsup :thumbsup
Post by: the visitor on December 30, 2017, 09:33:52 PM
I had a nice chat with AC on FB today. I asked him if he co-wrote TR, his answer was:
" hi Vincent, I never said I co-wrote Telegraph Road, the reason being because I didn't. Mark wrote that song. What I did do was play a big part in it's evolution, in its arrangement by coming up with the piano parts while it was being written. Some people might argue that was co-writing; I don't."
I then asked him if he felt targeted by TOTT and talked to MK about it. The answer was:
"No, Vincent, I don't feel targeted personally, and no, I haven't talked to him about it."
"
At last, a quote from an actual source. I've been mildly disgusted by the way this thread has focused on character assassination of AC as it has evolved, but that is all I will say on that point.
Getting back to facts, and to add MK's side of the story, here is a a link to an interview from a recently unearthed reel to reel recording from 1982 of MK speaking about the creation of the Love Over Gold album, and the importance of Alan's involvement in that. The comment is within the first couple of minutes so you don't have to listen long.
"its really important to me to have say Alan in the band, who can write out the parts for me...and then you just really get attuned to arranging"
https://soundcloud.com/i-spy-2/dire-straits-mark-knoplfer-interview-1982-bbc-radio-trent/s-zhYYE
To my knowledge this is the first time this recording has been circulated.
Be nice.
Post by: Eddie Fox on December 31, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
Post by: dmg on December 31, 2017, 03:50:43 PM
Thanks a lot for posting it. Alan is one of the finest rock’n roll keyboardists I’ve come across and his playing played a very important role in the DS sound from LOG onwards. I won’t let his recent behavior cloud my judgement. I’m extremely disappointed in him for all this legacy bs but as a musician he’ll always have my respect and admiration.
I find his early contributions to DS songs quite infuriating tbh. His additions to Sultans on the On Location tour completely spoiled the song and the same can be said for others. I have often thought that Mark "let him loose" creatively on this tour but "reigned him in" afterwards, realising that most of it just didn't work but it was too late to change while already on tour.
Regarding his recent behaviour, I am really disappointed in him, and I suppose this is why some of us have taken to heavy criticism of the man Visitor. It has tainted his contribution to DS for me now and whenever I hear him play I no longer enjoy it like I used to. These guys were all heroes to me but now I just don't like him.
Post by: ds1984 on December 31, 2017, 04:27:13 PM
Each tour Mark did some change on some song and not on some other so we can't really say that what happened on the OLT did not please him.
If you want to go that way who had this ugly idea in 2008 to make play the first half of TR by the folkies? Certainly not AC.
So if you bash AC then you have to take account what happened once he left.
And my bet is if Mark wasn't happy with one idea, AC or not, it was rejected.
Mark has always been the musical boss (after EB of course).
Post by: herlock on December 31, 2017, 05:49:03 PM
True, the stripped-down, 4-piece 78/79 versions of the early songs had this unique charming pub atmosphere.
But the enhanced versions were amazing too. Best example to me is News - the keys and the Hammond organ changed this little tune into an epic tragedy ! Other examples are Lions, WDYTYG (which I think dmg you once said the best versions were in 81, which I agree although I think it is more thanks to the extra guitar solo than thanks to the keys), OUATITW, and of course Sultans. I love the bass-ass versions of Sultans with sax, although I have to admit than in 91/92 there was very little keyboards on it (more pedal steel).
Maybe you are right in a sense that in the OES tour Mark drastically reduced the contributions of both AC and GF on keys and synth compared to the BIA tour, where they were overused at any rate. So probably Mark is able to listen to criticism after all :) but then there was way too much pedal steel in the OES tour...
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 31, 2017, 06:31:58 PM
According to "The Visitor" MK has "managed to claim the writing credits".
Forgive me for ignoring The Visitor's opinions, clearly a stooge with some connection to these tribute band leeches.
Post by: dustyvalentino on December 31, 2017, 07:09:13 PM
https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=2353.0
My apologies The Visitor. Happy new year.
You still could have posted the interview earlier though ;)
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Post by: Eddie Fox on December 31, 2017, 07:15:11 PM
Thanks a lot for posting it. Alan is one of the finest rock’n roll keyboardists I’ve come across and his playing played a very important role in the DS sound from LOG onwards. I won’t let his recent behavior cloud my judgement. I’m extremely disappointed in him for all this legacy bs but as a musician he’ll always have my respect and admiration.
I find his early contributions to DS songs quite infuriating tbh. His additions to Sultans on the On Location tour completely spoiled the song and the same can be said for others. I have often thought that Mark "let him loose" creatively on this tour but "reigned him in" afterwards, realising that most of it just didn't work but it was too late to change while already on tour.
Regarding his recent behaviour, I am really disappointed in him, and I suppose this is why some of us have taken to heavy criticism of the man Visitor. It has tainted his contribution to DS for me now and whenever I hear him play I no longer enjoy it like I used to. These guys were all heroes to me but now I just don't like him.
I agree with you to an extent. I also prefer SOS without keys, let alone the sax. But some songs from the first two albums benefited from Alan’s contribution me thinks. He did a great job with Once Upon a Time in the West for example.
Having said that, I was actually referring to LOG, BIA and OES. I didn’t really think of live performances. Should have though.
Post by: JF on January 01, 2018, 06:54:38 PM
- piano on fisrt half of Angel of mercy, an then organ and piano during band introduction
- piano during in down to the waterline (e.g. werchter)
- organ/synth on wehre do you think you're going
- clavinet on single handed sailor
- piano intro on Tunelle of love, and of course all later veolutions to Alchemy and BIA tour
- news
- once upon a time in the west and of course the evolution to Alchemy
- lions
and of course his "work" and early versions of Telegraph road ;)
I agree that keys on sultans and in the gallery are a little bit too much
and I agree with DS1984 : Mark has always been the boss. if Alan's arrangements were kept during the whole tour, it's because Mark liked them, if not, he would have asked Alan to change them.
Post by: peterromer on January 07, 2018, 02:33:18 PM
And yes its not as great as MK productions, but it does not need to be. They have proven that they actually can do something themselves. Contrary what MK claims. Respect for that. The tracks are in my view better than the worst from MK´s side which makes them good.
Give them a listen on YT, and buy it if you think its good. I did thanks to these threads. The "DS genom" is alive in there, and the sound/guitars are quite good.
Post by: jbaent on January 07, 2018, 03:14:36 PM
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 07, 2018, 03:28:35 PM
Post by: Robson on January 07, 2018, 03:34:07 PM
Post by: peterromer on January 07, 2018, 03:52:39 PM
They have done a proper job with that album, regardless of MK claims. MK is our hero, but even a hero can be wrong sometimes.... just saying.
Post by: Robson on January 07, 2018, 03:59:49 PM
Post by: Robson on January 07, 2018, 04:02:45 PM
Post by: herlock on January 07, 2018, 05:05:23 PM
Too bad that it took them so long to do something of their own. Had they done that in the first place, without using the DS name, and play live their own songs together with a few DS numbers, the way John does, Mark would never have gone mad with them. There would have been no harsh lyrics on both TOTT and 3CT. Well both sides officially deny that the other side was the target, but hey, we know...
Mark claims actually were not false. They were true at the time TOTT was written. Maybe actually Mark did them a great favour with this song - he kicked their butt and maybe gave them a wake-up call that had them make a record ! :)
Epiphany is good but sounds a lot like Silvertown Blues.Marco has denied any influence...oh well...
Post by: peterromer on January 07, 2018, 05:18:52 PM
The album is good, I like it.
Too bad that it took them so long to do something of their own. Had they done that in the first place, without using the DS name, and play live their own songs together with a few DS numbers, the way John does, Mark would never have gone mad with them. There would have been no harsh lyrics on both TOTT and 3CT. Well both sides officially deny that the other side was the target, but hey, we know...
Mark claims actually were not false. They were true at the time TOTT was written. Maybe actually Mark did them a great favour with this song - he kicked their butt and maybe gave them a wake-up call that had them make a record ! :)
Epiphany is good but sounds a lot like Silvertown Blues.Marco has denied any influence...oh well...
I had the same thoughts. Maybe MK did ;D
Post by: Stanko on January 07, 2018, 06:42:28 PM
I'm just listening "After The Beanstalk" :)believe or not, i have just had!!
i went up there times but it NEVER was for the gold!
Post by: Robson on January 07, 2018, 07:44:40 PM
Post by: Stanko on January 07, 2018, 08:32:43 PM
"Well the harp's worth more than any fortune and fame"amongst the other things, exactly!
Post by: Robson on January 07, 2018, 08:45:23 PM
Post by: Stanko on January 07, 2018, 08:47:04 PM
After The Beanstalk -Great text. I did not immediately understand what Mark meant :):thumbsup
Post by: jbaent on January 07, 2018, 09:47:54 PM
After The Beanstalk - Great text. Words and music are compatible. I did not immediately understand what Mark meant :)
What he meant?
Post by: Stanko on January 07, 2018, 09:58:45 PM
you obviously know, tell usAfter The Beanstalk - Great text. Words and music are compatible. I did not immediately understand what Mark meant :)
What he meant?
Post by: Robson on January 07, 2018, 10:05:24 PM
Post by: Robson on January 07, 2018, 10:11:43 PM
Post by: Stanko on January 07, 2018, 10:25:15 PM
Post by: Robson on January 07, 2018, 10:46:50 PM
Post by: junkiedoll on January 08, 2018, 01:58:22 AM
https://philpalmer.com/statement/
Though I am a big critic of (dire straits) legacy, I´d say this is a fair statement.
Post by: herlock on January 08, 2018, 09:14:01 AM
Don´t know if this already has been posted.Fair, but late statement. And he forgets that the critics are not towards the Legacy project (what's wrong with making an album of new songs, really !) but against the "Straits" project, that has been during for years. And the critics are not even against this project per se, just the attitude of confusing people with the DS name and stating that "MK was maybe not such an important part of DS after all".
https://philpalmer.com/statement/
Though I am a big critic of (dire straits) legacy, I´d say this is a fair statement.
As I said, had they started with the Legacy album in the first place, there would have been no hard feelings at all. Just the enjoyment of having something new in the DS universe, like JI's albums. Just like those, MK could even have helped and endorse them on his official website !
So guys, we are not complaining about your present but about your past...
As for 3CT being about Phil Palmer.... Really ? "You made a lot of ennemies along the way", this is about yourself ? Hard to believe... Why not having the courage to admit that MK is the target ? It is true that TOTT was pretty harsh...
Post by: Robson on January 08, 2018, 09:28:04 AM
Post by: jbaent on January 08, 2018, 10:17:41 AM
First Toto singer, Bobby Kimball, when he was sacked from Toto, was substituted by Fergie Fredericksen, and was more mad about this than to be sacked, because Fredericksen has been chasing Kimball bands from the beginning, taking some jobs that were for Kimball and taking his role in the bands he was leaving. So it can be said that Fergie made some enemies in his musical career...
I'm sure that Palmer and many others session musicians had fought for jobs with other sessions musicians and sometimes he won, sometimes he loses. That's how some works are.
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 08, 2018, 11:34:02 AM
And Phil, if you're reading this, as the musical director of your band, get yourself a proper singer. At least someone who can sing and give interviews in english. Other than that, good album with some pretty decent tunes.
Post by: quizzaciously on January 08, 2018, 11:43:44 AM
Don´t know if this already has been posted.
https://philpalmer.com/statement/
Though I am a big critic of (dire straits) legacy, I´d say this is a fair statement.
Fair, but late statement. And he forgets that the critics are not towards the Legacy project (what's wrong with making an album of new songs, really !) but against the "Straits" project, that has been during for years. And the critics are not even against this project per se, just the attitude of confusing people with the DS name and stating that "MK was maybe not such an important part of DS after all".
As I said, had they started with the Legacy album in the first place, there would have been no hard feelings at all. Just the enjoyment of having something new in the DS universe, like JI's albums. Just like those, MK could even have helped and endorse them on his official website !
So guys, we are not complaining about your present but about your past...
As for 3CT being about Phil Palmer.... Really ? "You made a lot of ennemies along the way", this is about yourself ? Hard to believe... Why not having the courage to admit that MK is the target ? It is true that TOTT was pretty harsh...
Very well said and I'm waiting for a statement from MK regarding the setlist controversy :lol :lol :lol
Post by: Robson on January 08, 2018, 11:59:50 AM
Post by: dmg on January 08, 2018, 12:36:54 PM
Post by: jbaent on January 08, 2018, 12:39:57 PM
If Palmer hates MK so much it doesn't make sense to loose your time attending MK concerts in different tours...
I also saw Palmer at one Clapton concert at the RAH, with Steve Ferrone and someone I didn't know.
Post by: Robson on January 08, 2018, 12:48:03 PM
He hates? It's probably too big a word
Post by: quizzaciously on January 08, 2018, 01:17:26 PM
"If Palmer hates MK so much it doesn't make sense to loose your time attending MK concerts in different tours...
He hates? It's probably too big a word
Yes. I don't think it's hate, more like a competition (and we all know who's going to win). I always get stuck in competition while making music. Everybody thinks "I can play better than you and I can do better than you". The whole situation about tribute bands tells me it's about competition more than about anything else. But that's not fair already, because you're playing by someone else's rules (by playing someone else's songs). I'm also a victim of that. I would never ever and will never start a tribute band, so I've found another way to empty out my "competition" feeling. I'm not a big fan of anything unoriginal if you ask me. And this whole situation with Palmer, Clark, ect. gives me a royal pain in the neck.
Post by: jbaent on January 08, 2018, 01:19:15 PM
Curious he feels the need to do this unless it's an ad for the new record and tour. :think
Lot of people is asking him in his facebook account... I was wondering he would be tired of it and do something like this.
Post by: jbaent on January 08, 2018, 01:20:30 PM
"If Palmer hates MK so much it doesn't make sense to loose your time attending MK concerts in different tours...
He hates? It's probably too big a word
Yes. I don't think it's hate, more like a competition (and we all know who's going to win). I always get stuck in competition while making music. Everybody thinks "I can play better than you and I can do better than you". The whole situation about tribute bands tells me it's about competition more than about anything else. But that's not fair already, because you're playing by someone else's rules (by playing someone else's songs). I'm also a victim of that. I would never ever and will never start a tribute band, so I've found another way to empty out my "competition" feeling. I'm not a big fan of anything unoriginal if you ask me. And this whole situation with Palmer, Clark, ect. gives me a royal pain in the neck.
If thats true... this forum is so big that I can't understand why you increase your pain with this thread.
Post by: quizzaciously on January 08, 2018, 01:31:54 PM
If thats true... this forum is so big that I can't understand why you increase your pain with this thread.
Because I can't ignore that either. We get to the point when even the "statements" become a standard in communication. What's next? Phil Palmer feels he need to explain the "3 Chord Trick" song, because 80% of fans assumed it was about MK, rightfully so. And now he says he loves Mark and that the song is about himself instead. And the confusion has only begun... :hmm
Post by: PensaGhost on January 08, 2018, 02:12:40 PM
I told you chewbacca and mickey mouse cowrote Telegraph Road together with MK and Alan Clark
Post by: jbaent on January 08, 2018, 02:13:44 PM
If thats true... this forum is so big that I can't understand why you increase your pain with this thread.
Because I can't ignore that either. We get to the point when even the "statements" become a standard in communication. What's next? Phil Palmer feels he need to explain the "3 Chord Trick" song, because 80% of fans assumed it was about MK, rightfully so. And now he says he loves Mark and that the song is about himself instead. And the confusion has only begun... :hmm
You know, when we reach this point in which fans contact Phil and Alan directly, and they give the explanations to the fans reactions, and even that, they are not believing what they say, there is only one thing that comes to mind...
... and it's that haters are gonna hate
I know that they made things that some of us would consider innapropiate, but some of the things I've been reading about it looks like a big overreaction, specially when Alan and Phil made clear everything.
It doesn't mind if Alan explains that he didn't write TR parts but helped to create the arrangements, it doesn't mind if Phil explains that 3CT is about him, not MK. It doesn't mind as it doesn't feed our hate to the great sinners...
I'm quite tired and bored of this attitude. You (not you exactly, you in general) should reconsider what's really behind this attitude of ignore the explanations because it doesn't fit with the "hate".
yes. Hate might be a big word, but it's the only explanation for all this hunger of flesh... MK himself doesn't mind about them, and poor souls is the only thing he has to say about it... I guess that annoys also all the haters, that would rather see him sue them until they are bankrupt and buried under the sand...
:smack
pathetic.
Each to his own...
Post by: quizzaciously on January 08, 2018, 03:45:18 PM
so now that legacy song is not about MK, but about Palmer ? LOL thats the most ridiculous statement ever
I told you chewbacca and mickey mouse cowrote Telegraph Road together with MK and Alan Clark
LOL that's hilarious! :lol
... and it's that haters are gonna hate
:smack
pathetic.
Each to his own...
We don't "hate" either. It's just the wrong order of events that leads to all this "hate". And I'm not a fan of NOT loving AC and Phil Palmer! In fact, when I was a kid watching On The Night I thought they were the coolest guys in the world along with MK and I treated them all equally cool. But as time goes by it's hard to stay cool and AC and PP failed the test of time... In the other hand, John, Danny, Guy and others succeeded and there's always more love than hate. And in the end, the love you take...
Post by: quizzaciously on January 08, 2018, 04:03:46 PM
Why everything's so controversial?
Post by: jbaent on January 08, 2018, 04:18:25 PM
so now that legacy song is not about MK, but about Palmer ? LOL thats the most ridiculous statement ever
I told you chewbacca and mickey mouse cowrote Telegraph Road together with MK and Alan Clark
I'm glad you found a way to deal with your own frustrations.
:thumbsup
:clap
Post by: Robson on January 08, 2018, 04:22:40 PM
Post by: PensaGhost on January 08, 2018, 04:22:55 PM
so now that legacy song is not about MK, but about Palmer ? LOL thats the most ridiculous statement ever
I told you chewbacca and mickey mouse cowrote Telegraph Road together with MK and Alan Clark
I'm glad you found a way to deal with your own frustrations.
:thumbsup
:clap
No idea what you are talking about
Post by: PensaGhost on January 08, 2018, 04:23:46 PM
I think a natural way of thinking would be to close down all this official tribute thing completely with false advertising and things (there'll be a show in Moscow later this year and already I've met people who thinks it's going to be a Dire Straits show, how about that?). Or at least rename it completely or make something towards this devastating attitude which makes so many people "angry". Oh, they already did it by releasing an album of original material? Yeah, with lyrics so controversial it causes musicians to release "statements"... Omg, do something right for one time at least!
Why everything's so controversial?
Unfortunately people believing they are the real thing is happening in every country
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 08, 2018, 05:20:07 PM
Post by: Robson on January 08, 2018, 05:49:31 PM
Post by: dmg on January 08, 2018, 06:50:48 PM
Marco is a real fan and has been since the DS days, not just a couple of years. He has collected the bootlegs like many of the die hard fans on here and not only buys official material. I think some of the criticism he has had is a little harsh because he will be trying 100% and that's all anyone can ask. They made note regarding his deficiencies in the interview so are well aware.
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 08, 2018, 06:56:04 PM
To be honest, I never really cared about Phil’s opinion on Mark. It does now because it sounds fake to my ears.
Post by: dmg on January 08, 2018, 06:58:37 PM
I think it’s a smart move to say nice things about DS now that they’re trying to get DS fans to like their stuff. It would be more believable to me if Phil had given similar statements before joining any tribute band.
To be honest, I never really cared about Phil’s opinion on Mark. It does now because it sounds fake to my ears.
True. I can't remember anything good about Mark coming from him before the new record was released.
Post by: jbaent on January 08, 2018, 07:01:30 PM
And he attended many Mk solo gigs at the RAH before the tribute band.
He also.played some gigs with John Illsley and even Guy Fletcher before the Legacy record.
But who cares...
Post by: herlock on January 08, 2018, 07:19:38 PM
Interesting that Mark never spoke of someone wrong. I have read a lot of interviews and stories and I do not remember anyone criticizing etc. Someone has a problem here ???Indeed Mark never criticized anyone publicly.
Actually to be honest he hardly talks at all. It takes the death of such a legend as Chuck Berry to get a small word from him.
But that does not mean that he can't be harsh in private. We all know the "play whatever the fuck you want, it won't end up on the album anyway" he told his own brother. Who knows how it was with Pick. We know the way Terry was replaced overnight for the BIA album, and "did not meet the grade" for OES. When it comes to his music, Mark is very demanding to say the least.
Taking this into account, I don't think that Phil Palmer's words on him were outrageous. He said that "Mark can be an ogre sometimes", which is just stating the obvious. He poke fun at the sausages story, which is rather funny. Nothing to be angry with, really.
I am more concerned about Alan's statement that "Mark was not such an important piece of DS after all". Now THAT is scandalous...
Post by: PensaGhost on January 08, 2018, 07:21:01 PM
There was an interview with Legacy members Marco, Danny and Phil uploaded to YT a short while back. They all said nice things about Mark and the songs on a few occasions. I didn't really see any animosity from them and don't really get the TOTT thing by Mark at all. 3CT is obviously a reply to that and they're probably damn right to do so!
Marco is a real fan and has been since the DS days, not just a couple of years. He has collected the bootlegs like many of the die hard fans on here and not only buys official material. I think some of the criticism he has had is a little harsh because he will be trying 100% and that's all anyone can ask. They made note regarding his deficiencies in the interview so are well aware.
Marco, the guy who in an interview on youtube says the might invite MK to join the band, enough said
Post by: PensaGhost on January 08, 2018, 07:23:51 PM
Ingrid talked with Phil last year or even before, she mentioned the conversation here. He talked nice about MK and that was before they record their album.
And he attended many Mk solo gigs at the RAH before the tribute band.
He also.played some gigs with John Illsley and even Guy Fletcher before the Legacy record.
But who cares...
The official position is one thing, the unofficial is another
They will never say anything wrong about MK or DS publicly right now because... well they 'are' the real DS... that's how they are promoted
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 08, 2018, 07:24:26 PM
Ingrid talked with Phil last year or even before, she mentioned the conversation here. He talked nice about MK and that was before they record their album.
And he attended many Mk solo gigs at the RAH before the tribute band.
He also.played some gigs with John Illsley and even Guy Fletcher before the Legacy record.
But who cares...
I believe every single word you say, trust me, but I base my statement on what I’ve read in interviews and he never said anything that nice about Mark before this whole tribute undertaking. When asked about his favorite guitarists he would never mention Mark and would often claim Clapton’s was the best band he’d been in. Now, all of a sudden, Mark is his friend and DS is the best band in the world. He lacks consistency to say the least.
Post by: PensaGhost on January 08, 2018, 07:34:49 PM
On Saturday April 14 2018, DSL’s keyboard man Alan Clark will officially become a rock legend when he is inducted into the hallowed ranks of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Watch this space!
Post by: jbaent on January 08, 2018, 08:09:42 PM
http://dslegacy.com/dsls-alan-clark-to-be-inducted-into-the-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame/
On Saturday April 14 2018, DSL’s keyboard man Alan Clark will officially become a rock legend when he is inducted into the hallowed ranks of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Watch this space!
And?
Post by: quizzaciously on January 08, 2018, 08:15:29 PM
http://dslegacy.com/dsls-alan-clark-to-be-inducted-into-the-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame/
On Saturday April 14 2018, DSL’s keyboard man Alan Clark will officially become a rock legend when he is inducted into the hallowed ranks of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Watch this space!
And?
BEHOLD THE LEGEND!
Post by: PensaGhost on January 08, 2018, 08:21:19 PM
http://dslegacy.com/dsls-alan-clark-to-be-inducted-into-the-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame/
On Saturday April 14 2018, DSL’s keyboard man Alan Clark will officially become a rock legend when he is inducted into the hallowed ranks of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Watch this space!
And?
BEHOLD THE LEGEND!
Exactly :lol :lol
Post by: Robson on January 08, 2018, 08:24:09 PM
If Alan Clark said so, there is nothing to comment on and deal with this strange creation
Post by: jbaent on January 08, 2018, 08:34:29 PM
http://dslegacy.com/dsls-alan-clark-to-be-inducted-into-the-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame/
On Saturday April 14 2018, DSL’s keyboard man Alan Clark will officially become a rock legend when he is inducted into the hallowed ranks of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Watch this space!
And?
BEHOLD THE LEGEND!
Exactly :lol :lol
Any musician who play in band inducted to the hall of fame is inducted as well.
But you prefer fresh flesh, I know.
Post by: Vesper on January 08, 2018, 08:49:14 PM
http://dslegacy.com/dsls-alan-clark-to-be-inducted-into-the-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame/
On Saturday April 14 2018, DSL’s keyboard man Alan Clark will officially become a rock legend when he is inducted into the hallowed ranks of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Watch this space!
On his own site: I was told I'm to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, because of my role in Dire Straits. The ceremony is on April 14 in Cleveland, Ohio. I'll be there.
Post by: jbaent on January 08, 2018, 08:55:03 PM
Post by: Robson on January 08, 2018, 09:07:07 PM
Post by: jbaent on January 08, 2018, 09:25:40 PM
The question is: how many of them will come :D
Changing the question when you don't like the answer is quite nice LOL
Post by: dustyvalentino on January 08, 2018, 09:31:28 PM
Agree 100% Ed, Phil has never been so effusive in his praise of MK before.Ingrid talked with Phil last year or even before, she mentioned the conversation here. He talked nice about MK and that was before they record their album.
And he attended many Mk solo gigs at the RAH before the tribute band.
He also.played some gigs with John Illsley and even Guy Fletcher before the Legacy record.
But who cares...
I believe every single word you say, trust me, but I base my statement on what I’ve read in interviews and he never said anything that nice about Mark before this whole tribute undertaking. When asked about his favorite guitarists he would never mention Mark and would often claim Clapton’s was the best band he’d been in. Now, all of a sudden, Mark is his friend and DS is the best band in the world. He lacks consistency to say the least.
Three Chord Trick makes no sense if it's about Phil. Mumbly Marco says it's about a magician. Like the two men who say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong.
They say they are ditching DS and are now Legacy but the Brazilian show a few weeks back had them speaking about virtually nothing but DS and Phil and Marco playing "their" song Sultans of Swing.
MK has never said anything bad about them, but wrote, recorded and released a song with the type of ire normally reserved for politicians and warmongers.
Make of all this what you will.
Sent from my Tab2A7-20F using Tapatalk
Post by: cannibals on January 08, 2018, 10:58:24 PM
David Knopfler, Pick Withers, John Illsley and guy Fletcher, together with MK are going to be inducted as well
Who will be there for sure, any news on that? I believe John and David will be going. I don't know about Pick. And still no word from MK about this :think
Post by: schmonka on January 09, 2018, 03:14:35 AM
Post by: quizzaciously on January 09, 2018, 08:17:15 AM
Attending is VERY different from playing...and playing together as some sort of "group".....with this level of uncertainty and potentially massive awkwardness in mind, id like to issue a very early and very large cringe warning! Hahaha!
Yes and I can't get why this attitude treated like "hating". We don't hate, we just don't get it.
Post by: jbaent on January 09, 2018, 11:33:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX5BCgmr7tg
Post by: jbaent on January 09, 2018, 09:38:18 PM
Do you mind if we drop this subject here. Alan and Phil are friends and that's that.
Loud and clear.
Post by: quizzaciously on January 09, 2018, 09:49:33 PM
Guy's answer to our old pal Jackal:
Do you mind if we drop this subject here. Alan and Phil are friends and that's that.
Loud and clear.
But it doesn't explain a thing. It's just another way to say "I'm done with this topic", which is ridiculous when transferred even to Guy's forum. Man, I'd suggest to everybody DO NOT post anything controversial on Guy's forum, because all you will get is a predictable defensive reaction and no answers at all. Phil and Alan are friends. And so what? Mark is my friend. So what? I can say whatever I want. Doings speaks better.
Post by: quizzaciously on January 09, 2018, 09:54:41 PM
Post by: cannibals on January 09, 2018, 11:13:17 PM
I think it all will be obvious in April. If all the guys will sit on one row, shaking hands and talking happily, then I'll believe in all the statements. If every one of them will sit on the opposite sides of the hall or would not even show up at all, then you'll know they're up to something.
The only one i assume/think mark really has a problem with these days is Alan Clark. We know he does not see his brother very much. Only on weddings and funerals i recall David saying in an interview a few years ago.
With all the rest he's fine as far as i know? I wonder if Ed Bicknell will also be there?
Post by: quizzaciously on January 09, 2018, 11:27:46 PM
I think it all will be obvious in April. If all the guys will sit on one row, shaking hands and talking happily, then I'll believe in all the statements. If every one of them will sit on the opposite sides of the hall or would not even show up at all, then you'll know they're up to something.
The only one i assume/think mark really has a problem with these days is Alan Clark. We know he does not see his brother very much. Only on weddings and funerals i recall David saying in an interview a few years ago.
With all the rest he's fine as far as i know? I wonder if Ed Bicknell will also be there?
I don't know about all of them simply because it's not really interesting for me to be honest... But what will happen on this occasion is very interesting indeed. Who would show up, who would ignore it. Worst case scenario if there'll be no performance or if we will never know about who attended the show. How to know it? By official footage and news headlines and some spectators from us mortals? Looking forward to this HOF event.
Post by: quizzaciously on January 09, 2018, 11:38:49 PM
Post by: Trawlerman on January 10, 2018, 01:47:22 AM
John and Alan will most likely represent the band. John because he's always been proud of his baby and Alan because he wouldn't want to miss the spotlight.
David... not that sure if he really wants to be there.
Axl Rose wasn't there for the Guns N'Roses induction and it didn't stop anything. The band was represented by former members who haven't been in the band for like 15 years at that time and they played a couple of songs with singer Myles Kennedy who's never been in the band at all to fill in for Axl.
Phil Palmer, there's no reason for him to be there. Not all members are inducted. They usually include the original, classic and most relevant members of a band.
That would be Mark, David, John, Pick (classic line-up) with the addition of Guy and Alan because of Brothers In Arms.
BUT. A couple of songs will be played and that will be the interesting part because it doesn't necessarily have to be played by the inductees, meaning Phil or whoever could very well show up to fill in for Mark. Alan being an inductee himself, he would have every right to invite his people to play some Dire Straits songs. Not that I would want to see that, just saying that he could. Now take a deep breath. If Mark doesn't show up, we could very well see Dire Straits being inducted and Legacy perform some songs. And Mark couldn't do anything about that. That would be ugly right ?
Post by: quizzaciously on January 10, 2018, 08:12:58 AM
BUT. A couple of songs will be played and that will be the interesting part because it doesn't necessarily have to be played by the inductees, meaning Phil or whoever could very well show up to fill in for Mark. Alan being an inductee himself, he would have every right to invite his people to play some Dire Straits songs. Not that I would want to see that, just saying that he could. Now take a deep breath. If Mark doesn't show up, we could very well see Dire Straits being inducted and Legacy perform some songs. And Mark couldn't do anything about that. That would be ugly right ?
Disgusting yes, but to be expected, unfortunately. MK has a very strange relationship with his own invention (I mean DS), so as with people who co-created it with him and with its LEGACY, please excuse the term. It’s a funny situation when you can understand the motivation of both of the parties, but wonder how they would go out of this rather uncomfortable situation.
My guess is also MK refuses to go, Guy too as a friendly gesture. John, Alan and Co don’t mind going at all, collecting all the awards and most importantly, actually having the right to do so. Some awkward performance maybe and everybody goes or stays at home feeling the accomplish... ness. Amen.
Post by: JF on January 10, 2018, 10:16:25 AM
I'd rather see Mark and John like for the depford plaque event
I would prefer that with no songs played, rather than legacy playing :disbelief
first best scenario : mark will go and perform with David John Guy and Alan. And a hired drummer ? (I read that Pick won't go) or maybe without drummer, like in Boothbay ?
second best scenario : mark will go and perform with John and Guy, but David and Alan won't go, or will stay in the audience
average scenario : Mark will go, will say 3 words, but will not perform, and no song will be played. John, Guy, and maybe Alan will be there, but no rellay warmness between them
bad scenario : Mark will go, won't perform, but other unknown musicians will perform
worst scenario : Mark won't go, and legacy will perform
Post by: Robson on January 10, 2018, 10:39:19 AM
Post by: cannibals on January 10, 2018, 10:41:44 AM
I hope you are wrong :'(Worst scenario will never happen.
I'd rather see Mark and John like for the depford plaque event
I would prefer that with no songs played, rather than legacy playing :disbelief
first best scenario : mark will go and perform with David John Guy and Alan. And a hired drummer ? (I read that Pick won't go) or maybe without drummer, like in Boothbay ?
second best scenario : mark will go and perform with John and Guy, but David and Alan won't go, or will stay in the audience
average scenario : Mark will go, will say 3 words, but will not perform, and no song will be played. John, Guy, and maybe Alan will be there, but no rellay warmness between them
bad scenario : Mark will go, won't perform, but other unknown musicians will perform
worst scenario : Mark won't go, and legacy will perform
That is giving the Legacy guys a way to big platform/podium and the last thing MK wants is that to happen i think.
Post by: JF on January 10, 2018, 10:56:35 AM
I know he doesn't want to see that, but saying that it could possible...aaarggh
Post by: skydiver on January 10, 2018, 10:58:02 AM
And since those two crave desperately for any tiny bit of publicity they won't step back for the sake of MK, the only mastermind of DS.
And that's why he won't even attend the ceremony and the whole thing threatens to become an embarrassing farce.
It's as simple as that.
"We are ever so sorry Mark isn't with us here tonight, since he, too, has some share in our band's success, but unfortunatelly he couldn't make it..."
Post by: JF on January 10, 2018, 11:37:38 AM
MK won't agree to any joint ceremony with DK or AC.
I thought the same some months ago, but like Pavel I am an optimistic, and I still have hope that Mark could make an exception just for one hour or two
or another solution : Alan could have a "gentleman" attitude and he could be staying "discrete" : either not going to the ceremony, or going but staying back on the side and not trying to "steal" the limelight
I still have hope in human beahviour in general, and in this case, both sides could do an effort, just for one time. It's not THAT difficult
Post by: jbaent on January 10, 2018, 12:46:43 PM
I read comments made from all the DS members inducted except MK, and all of them said they would like to attend the induction ceremony except Pick Withers that said in his facebook that he is not considering it by now. All of them who said they want to attend are "waiting" MK decision, because they were all members of DS, but the main man in DS was obviously MK.
If MK says no, it looks like John wants to go anyway... what happen with the rest? As far as they are inducted, I guess they can go to the ceremony even MK doesn't go, as far as the inductee is the band DIRE STRAITS, and they (MK, DK, John, Pick, Alan and Guy) are all inductees in the Hall Of Fame.
About performing... I read Alan said that it would be great to perform if MK wants to. Apparently he didn't consider to play without him, as the inductees are DS.
But... but David Knopfler and Alan Clark had played together for many years (at least three records and at least one tour) and John is "the good guy" so maybe they can play together something, just to celebrate the induction. I guess they can unless the Hall Of Fame protocol says they can't. However, if they do, I'm sure that in this case, they would ask MK if that's ok. Because this induction is about DIRE STRAITS, and DS it's MK's band. This is not about a tribute band, it's about THE band.
I know most of you don't mind from any of what I'm telling, as it's not the fresh flesh you want to keep the moaning growing, but... I don't mind about this narrow way of thinking anyway.
Post by: quizzaciously on January 10, 2018, 02:00:45 PM
At the same time there's literally nothing in your post I'm personally would not be agreed with. A really good analysis of a situation.
You can't beat the facts anyway, like people being confused by the Legacy/Experience/Legends advertising as DIRE STRAITS* for example.
*tribute band
Post by: jbaent on January 10, 2018, 02:16:55 PM
Are you serious, jbaent? I can only see very polite and reasoned discussion. What flesh you're constantly talking about? Yes, some people have different opinions, but it doesn't mean we want to kill everybody in sight. I'm a bit of insulted when being called like that. It's so easy to tell everybody to go and "moan somewhere else".
At the same time there's literally nothing in your post I'm personally would not be agreed with. A really good analysis of a situation.
You can't beat the facts anyway, like people being confused by the Legacy/Experience/Legends advertising as DIRE STRAITS* for example.
*tribute band
What I mean with fresh flesh is that some of you (and I don't mean exactly you) looks like whatever is said, is twisted to keep insulting Phil, Alan etc etc etc. Even what they say is correct and trying to solve the logical confusion of the DS Legacy vs Legacy and anything regarding the Hall Of Fame thing, it doesn't matter what they say, because their words are going to be twisted to mean not what they say, but what "the moaners" want it to say, so they can keep throwing wood to the fire.
Anybody has an opinion, of course, everybody are entitled to express their opinion, of course. But if some opinions are always shootin the piano player, whatever he says or do, I'm also in my right to point that it is just looking for fresh flesh, or using the above example, put more wood into the fire, and keep shooting the piano player.
I never mind about Phil Palmer, in fact I never liked his playing, to me, is the very last DS guitarist in my list, too technical, too good, but no soul, in my opinion, but if I read something he says, good or bad, I don't let my personal opinion to get over what I read. Palmer made an statement, that's it to me. Same with anything else whoever says. All stories have at least two sides, but we only see one and we don't care of the other, as it's not the side we chosed.
And, by the way, any tribute band, advertise itself as Dire Straits. All of them put their name in the posters, even the DS Legends/Legacy/Experience, but the biggest you can read in the poster is DIRE STRAITS. That's called marketing. And it's often made by the promotors, who wants to sell how much tickets as they can.
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 10, 2018, 02:53:43 PM
Post by: Friday Night on January 10, 2018, 02:57:23 PM
Imagine Mark appears and plays Six Blade Knife just with John, Pick & David.
Then Alan & Guy join them to play Romeo & Juliet and Brothers in Arms.
Possibly one more little tune starting with "Thank you-oo!" between R&J and BiA.
Just dreaming.
Post by: PensaGhost on January 10, 2018, 03:01:26 PM
(https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26229396_1759285064132788_4849034518249189760_n.jpg?oh=b6ad05d52a5c58d4173d69b824e49274&oe=5AED119F)
Post by: Robson on January 10, 2018, 03:28:33 PM
Ok And, by the way, any tribute band, advertise itself as Dire Straits. All of them put their name in the posters, even the DS Legends/Legacy/Experience, but the biggest you can read in the poster is DIRE STRAITS. That's called marketing. And it's often made by the promotors, who wants to sell how much tickets as they can.
Post by: herlock on January 10, 2018, 03:54:12 PM
Just to bring some fresh air in here...More ambitious dreaming: All of them + Mel Colling / Chris White playing TOL, 1985 style, 19-minute version with intro, break with musical quotes and band intro...
Imagine Mark appears and plays Six Blade Knife just with John, Pick & David.
Then Alan & Guy join them to play Romeo & Juliet and Brothers in Arms.
Possibly one more little tune starting with "Thank you-oo!" between R&J and BiA.
Just dreaming.
Yes, I can hear you screaming: "Dreaaaaaaamer ! Nothing but a dreaaaaaaaamer !" :)
Post by: JF on January 10, 2018, 04:37:57 PM
Post by: herlock on January 10, 2018, 04:40:19 PM
why only 19 ? Uniondale was 24 ! :PSorry, I was not ambitious enough ! :)
Post by: JF on January 10, 2018, 05:22:39 PM
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 10, 2018, 06:27:58 PM
Post by: jbaent on January 10, 2018, 08:11:50 PM
Did you guys like the sax in the band? I hated it! :lol :lol :lol
I prefer whistles and pipes.
Post by: ds1984 on January 10, 2018, 08:26:27 PM
Did you guys like the sax in the band? I hated it! :lol :lol :lol
I prefer whistles and pipes.
So you don't need a DS reunion, just another solo tour.
Post by: jbaent on January 10, 2018, 08:54:56 PM
Did you guys like the sax in the band? I hated it! :lol :lol :lol
I prefer whistles and pipes.
So you don't need a DS reunion, just another solo tour.
No, I want whistles and pipes in DS
Post by: cannibals on January 10, 2018, 08:55:53 PM
Last part about April 2018
(https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26229396_1759285064132788_4849034518249189760_n.jpg?oh=b6ad05d52a5c58d4173d69b824e49274&oe=5AED119F)
Reading the last part makes it all very clear. MK does not want to play at the induction.
Post by: quizzaciously on January 10, 2018, 09:16:03 PM
Reading the last part makes it all very clear. MK does not want to play at the induction.
The first rule of the MK Club: if something about Mark seems unlikely, it will NOT happen :lol
Post by: jbaent on January 10, 2018, 09:34:38 PM
Reading the last part makes it all very clear. MK does not want to play at the induction.
The first rule of the MK Club: if something about Mark seems unlikely, it will NOT happen :lol
Wrong.
The rule is, whatever the fans would like, it's not gonna happen
Post by: JF on January 10, 2018, 09:54:41 PM
Did you guys like the sax in the band? I hated it! :lol :lol :lol
it depends on songs, tour
I don't like it on sultans, but I love the TOL intro on Alchemy, to be more accuarte, the "bridge' between the end of Portobello belle and the start of the TOL intro
and I love it on Portobello belle in 83 too, and even in 91
I don't like it on On every street last tour
I like it on WAM in 2002
it really depends if it fit the song or not, but of course it's a matter of taste
Post by: cannibals on January 10, 2018, 11:28:37 PM
Reading the last part makes it all very clear. MK does not want to play at the induction.
The first rule of the MK Club: if something about Mark seems unlikely, it will NOT happen :lol
Wrong.
The rule is, whatever the fans would like, it's not gonna happen
Like Silvertown, So far from the clyde and TOL in the setlist :smack :smack :smack
But it does mean they have spoken about it ( probably true managers) and MK has probably made a statement that he wants to go but he does not want to perform. At least thats what i make of DK interview.... I wonder if he MK will make a public statement about that at some point :think
Post by: cannibals on January 11, 2018, 09:55:59 AM
Post by: quizzaciously on January 11, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
Good question from Julio on Guy's forum. But he is ignoring the question. :disbelief :disbelief :disbelief
Never seen him doing something like that :lol :lol :lol
Post by: cannibals on January 11, 2018, 10:27:54 AM
Good question from Julio on Guy's forum. But he is ignoring the question. :disbelief :disbelief :disbelief
Never seen him doing something like that :lol :lol :lol
The more i think about it i think MK is not going. Guy probably knows this already.
And they are going to use the new album and secret project for that. Sorry we could not make it but the agenda was already full bla bla bla..........
Post by: skydiver on January 11, 2018, 10:33:34 AM
Good question from Julio on Guy's forum. But he is ignoring the question. :disbelief :disbelief :disbelief
I don't think at all that it's a good question.
Guy doesn't need a wise guy telling him "the Hall Of Fame kind of also need confirmation of who's gonna attend".
It's embarrassing to see how often he is molested with questions every respectful person knows he cannot answer.
And every respectful person kowns that there are good reasons why there is no public statement from MK.
It's so sad.
Post by: jbaent on January 11, 2018, 10:50:35 AM
I GUESS
When you ignored I also said I GUESS it's what I mean when I say that people twist others words...
Post by: cannibals on January 11, 2018, 11:11:37 AM
There has been a reaction from almost everyone Bon Jovi Moody Blues The Cars. Only MK has not spoken one word about it. Very strange...
Post by: Trawlerman on January 11, 2018, 11:50:12 AM
The way I see it, MK will write something and John will read it.
Fans are putting way too much hope in this thing.
He'll be honored and thankful and everything but won't go there. And there won't be any bad word at all, Alan will perform with whoever will perform and life will go on.
Post by: Robson on January 11, 2018, 11:55:46 AM
Post by: jbaent on January 11, 2018, 11:59:22 AM
I asked John at FB about the date of the first Dire Straits concert because I had doubts and answered right away. Maybe someone will dare? Or maybe it's naughty :hmm
This is the date of the first DS concert at Farrer House. In all diaries it appears like July 1977 but it's wrong as it was in the Deptford Festival at Crossfields Estate (the back garden at Farrer House) and as you can see by this advert, it was on 26th June 1977
(http://irreductible.naukas.com/files/2017/06/farrer-house-7-456x640.jpg)
Post by: jbaent on January 11, 2018, 12:01:05 PM
RnRHoF certainly has confirmation from MK already (that he won't attend)
The way I see it, MK will write something and John will read it.
And you know this, how? any proof?
Quote
Fans are putting way too much hope in this thing.
He'll be honored and thankful and everything but won't go there. And there won't be any bad word at all, Alan will perform with whoever will perform and life will go on.
Yes, we are putting too much hope to see our favourite band members together for a one off, one more last time.
We know for sure that John will go, so, for me, John playing with the rest of the boys that want to go would be perfect.
Post by: Robson on January 11, 2018, 12:22:06 PM
Exactly.
Post by: JF on January 11, 2018, 02:33:45 PM
We know for sure that John will go, so, for me, John playing with the rest of the boys that want to go would be perfect.
well I wouldn't call it "perfect"
Post by: jbaent on January 11, 2018, 02:38:12 PM
We know for sure that John will go, so, for me, John playing with the rest of the boys that want to go would be perfect.
well I wouldn't call it "perfect"
The most perfect we can get? Lol
Post by: junkiedoll on January 11, 2018, 03:04:09 PM
The rule is, whatever the fans would like, it's not gonna happen
Untrue. MK most often exactly does what I like, for instance, and I consider myself as a big fan, at least in the same category as you and many others here.
Post by: superval99 on January 11, 2018, 03:13:07 PM
We know for sure that John will go, so, for me, John playing with the rest of the boys that want to go would be perfect.
well I wouldn't call it "perfect"
The most perfect we can get? Lol
It can never be perfect without MK being there, because without MK it is not DS. I'm not interested in any other line-up!
Post by: Robson on January 11, 2018, 03:14:30 PM
I think the same :)
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 11, 2018, 03:39:12 PM
Saying Phil and Alan are friends doesn’t necessarily mean he’s ok with what they’ve been up to. You see, in Brazil we say that a friend who rubs your head and says good boy no matter what you do is not a real friend. Guy probably expressed his disappointment directly to them but since their actions haven’t justified a friendship breakup - according to his moral code at least - they are still friends. Wouldn’t say the same about Mark though.
Post by: jbaent on January 11, 2018, 03:43:40 PM
The rule is, whatever the fans would like, it's not gonna happen
Untrue. MK most often exactly does what I like, for instance, and I consider myself as a big fan, at least in the same category as you and many others here.
Let's do something. Tell us what would you like the secret project to be and what don't you would like it to be. Let's see the results ;)
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 11, 2018, 03:46:21 PM
Did you guys like the sax in the band? I hated it! :lol :lol :lol
it depends on songs, tour
I don't like it on sultans, but I love the TOL intro on Alchemy, to be more accuarte, the "bridge' between the end of Portobello belle and the start of the TOL intro
and I love it on Portobello belle in 83 too, and even in 91
I don't like it on On every street last tour
I like it on WAM in 2002
it really depends if it fit the song or not, but of course it's a matter of taste
I agree but to me it always felt like from BIA onwards once Mark had a sax player in the band he had to make more room for the instrument and that would lead to unnecessary sax playing. Long story short, in my opinion the cons were greater than the pros...
Post by: jbaent on January 11, 2018, 04:07:03 PM
Guy’s fed up with this topic and will ignore or give short and vague answers to it til the end of times.
Saying Phil and Alan are friends doesn’t necessarily mean he’s ok with what they’ve been up to. You see, in Brazil we say that a friend who rubs your head and says good boy no matter what you do is not a real friend. Guy probably expressed his disappointment directly to them but since their actions haven’t justified a friendship breakup - according to his moral code at least - they are still friends. Wouldn’t say the same about Mark though.
There is something I end learning... Words don't mean what who say or write them says but what the reader or listener understand or wants to understand.
Loud and clear.
Twisting the knife ;D
Post by: Trawlerman on January 11, 2018, 04:20:00 PM
RnRHoF certainly has confirmation from MK already (that he won't attend)
The way I see it, MK will write something and John will read it.
And you know this, how? any proof?
It's an opinion, so I don't need proof
MK is just the kind of person who would write a polite answer to the RnRHoF without letting the whole world know about it. Discreet, as he always been.
If he doesn't feel the need to make a public statement about it then he won't do it, you should know him by now.
Post by: jbaent on January 11, 2018, 04:21:53 PM
RnRHoF certainly has confirmation from MK already (that he won't attend)
The way I see it, MK will write something and John will read it.
And you know this, how? any proof?
It's an opinion, so I don't need proof
MK is just the kind of person who would write a polite answer to the RnRHoF without letting the whole world know about it. Discreet, as he always been.
If he doesn't feel the need to make a public statement about it then he won't do it, you should know him by now.
Actually that's what I said in the firsts mails when we knew there were inducted, that Mk would say they have agenda problems to attend, which indeed can be true
Post by: junkiedoll on January 11, 2018, 04:32:37 PM
The rule is, whatever the fans would like, it's not gonna happen
Untrue. MK most often exactly does what I like, for instance, and I consider myself as a big fan, at least in the same category as you and many others here.
Let's do something. Tell us what would you like the secret project to be and what don't you would like it to be. Let's see the results ;)
Dont´t know what this should have to do with the subject above. You claimed a rule, and I proofed it is wrong.
Post by: jbaent on January 11, 2018, 04:38:30 PM
The rule is, whatever the fans would like, it's not gonna happen
Untrue. MK most often exactly does what I like, for instance, and I consider myself as a big fan, at least in the same category as you and many others here.
Let's do something. Tell us what would you like the secret project to be and what don't you would like it to be. Let's see the results ;)
Dont´t know what this should have to do with the subject above. You claimed a rule, and I proofed it is wrong.
I'm putting an example of that rule that proofs it's right :lol
Post by: Pottel on January 11, 2018, 04:53:01 PM
Fully agree. No mk, no dsWe know for sure that John will go, so, for me, John playing with the rest of the boys that want to go would be perfect.
well I wouldn't call it "perfect"
The most perfect we can get? Lol
It can never be perfect without MK being there, because without MK it is not DS. I'm not interested in any other line-up!
sent from my Samsung galaxy 7edge via tapatalk
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 11, 2018, 05:24:29 PM
Guy’s fed up with this topic and will ignore or give short and vague answers to it til the end of times.
Saying Phil and Alan are friends doesn’t necessarily mean he’s ok with what they’ve been up to. You see, in Brazil we say that a friend who rubs your head and says good boy no matter what you do is not a real friend. Guy probably expressed his disappointment directly to them but since their actions haven’t justified a friendship breakup - according to his moral code at least - they are still friends. Wouldn’t say the same about Mark though.
There is something I end learning... Words don't mean what who say or write them says but what the reader or listener understand or wants to understand.
Loud and clear.
Twisting the knife ;D
Yes, that's what happens when you are vague lol Guy's answers are usually open to interpretation. What I got from that specific answer is that he doesn't wanna talk about it. Considering that he's made it pretty clear that he does not approve some aspects of this whole tribute undertaking but still calls Alan and Phil friends I think it's pretty fair to assume they are friends who are not exactly on good terms - and that it's a private issue he's not willing to discuss with strangers.
Post by: JF on January 11, 2018, 06:47:02 PM
We know for sure that John will go, so, for me, John playing with the rest of the boys that want to go would be perfect.
well I wouldn't call it "perfect"
The most perfect we can get? Lol
It can never be perfect without MK being there, because without MK it is not DS. I'm not interested in any other line-up!
100% agree
Post by: Rail King on January 11, 2018, 06:55:47 PM
Whether he personally is still friends with Alan and Phil – or just calls them that - I don't know. Maybe he is. Or maybe he's just trying to calm things down and wants to prevent an awkward meeting at the RRHOF ceremony. I can't read Guy's mind. Neither can I read Mark's, but I can read his lyrics. ;D
Post by: jbaent on January 11, 2018, 06:56:22 PM
But we are in the wrong thread for this conversation...
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 11, 2018, 07:55:58 PM
This is getting funnier by the day. Of course Mark wrote TOTT with Phil Palmer & Co. in mind. And of course TCT is an attempt to retaliate. Anyone with a pair of eyes and a brain (and I assume this includes Guy) will know that.
Whether he personally is still friends with Alan and Phil – or just calls them that - I don't know. Maybe he is. Or maybe he's just trying to calm things down and wants to prevent an awkward meeting at the RRHOF ceremony. I can't read Guy's mind. Neither can I read Mark's, but I can read his lyrics. ;D
Agreed 100%
Post by: junkiedoll on January 11, 2018, 08:51:32 PM
The rule is, whatever the fans would like, it's not gonna happen
Untrue. MK most often exactly does what I like, for instance, and I consider myself as a big fan, at least in the same category as you and many others here.
Let's do something. Tell us what would you like the secret project to be and what don't you would like it to be. Let's see the results ;)
Dont´t know what this should have to do with the subject above. You claimed a rule, and I proofed it is wrong.
I'm putting an example of that rule that proofs it's right :lol
Well it seems you are not quite skilled in logics. You can - by definition - not put an example to proof any rule at all. You can just come up with an example/case to falsify a rule (which is what I have done).
Post by: quizzaciously on January 11, 2018, 08:52:51 PM
This is getting funnier by the day. Of course Mark wrote TOTT with Phil Palmer & Co. in mind. And of course TCT is an attempt to retaliate. Anyone with a pair of eyes and a brain (and I assume this includes Guy) will know that.
Whether he personally is still friends with Alan and Phil – or just calls them that - I don't know. Maybe he is. Or maybe he's just trying to calm things down and wants to prevent an awkward meeting at the RRHOF ceremony. I can't read Guy's mind. Neither can I read Mark's, but I can read his lyrics. ;D
LOL bravo! :lol
Post by: ds1984 on January 11, 2018, 09:19:20 PM
It has to be perfect.
Post by: dustyvalentino on January 11, 2018, 09:37:00 PM
http://wordpodcast.co.uk/2017/09/17/word-podcast-274-chris-difford-on-his-life-in-and-out-of-squeeze/I asked John at FB about the date of the first Dire Straits concert because I had doubts and answered right away. Maybe someone will dare? Or maybe it's naughty :hmm
This is the date of the first DS concert at Farrer House. In all diaries it appears like July 1977 but it's wrong as it was in the Deptford Festival at Crossfields Estate (the back garden at Farrer House) and as you can see by this advert, it was on 26th June 1977
(http://irreductible.naukas.com/files/2017/06/farrer-house-7-456x640.jpg)
Have a listen to this for an amusing anecdote about how MK got the gig playing with Squeeze...
Sent from my Tab2A7-20F using Tapatalk
Post by: dustyvalentino on January 11, 2018, 09:46:03 PM
To me, seeing just John and David singing whatever song as a duet would be special enough.You're putting a brave face on it Julio but any performance without MK would be an embarrassment.
But we are in the wrong thread for this conversation...
The only song they could possibly get away with without a proper guitarist would be Walk of Life.
If they wanted to do Sultans or something they would need Marco or Terence or somebody. They would be a laughing stock.
Sent from my Tab2A7-20F using Tapatalk
Post by: Pottel on January 11, 2018, 10:41:33 PM
agree here.To me, seeing just John and David singing whatever song as a duet would be special enough.You're putting a brave face on it Julio but any performance without MK would be an embarrassment.
But we are in the wrong thread for this conversation...
The only song they could possibly get away with without a proper guitarist would be Walk of Life.
If they wanted to do Sultans or something they would need Marco or Terence or somebody. They would be a laughing stock.
Sent from my Tab2A7-20F using Tapatalk
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 11, 2018, 10:45:01 PM
Post by: dustyvalentino on January 11, 2018, 11:33:19 PM
I can only see it kinda working if Keith Urban, John Mayer, Brad Paisley or any other good/well known singer/guitarist takes the lead. Anything other than that will be embarrassing imho.
That would be OK. Urban is a fan. Can he play MK style?
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 11, 2018, 11:44:50 PM
I can only see it kinda working if Keith Urban, John Mayer, Brad Paisley or any other good/well known singer/guitarist takes the lead. Anything other than that will be embarrassing imho.
That would be OK. Urban is a fan. Can he play MK style?
Paisley is a huge fan too. Mayer has said more than once he likes Mark’s work.
Urban is a brilliant guitarist, I’m sure he would deliver. I strongly recommend his first album with his original band, The Ranch. You can notice the DS influence very easily - and it’s incredible!
Post by: quizzaciously on January 11, 2018, 11:50:31 PM
Post by: zeta on January 12, 2018, 01:31:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfPxU88Qqkg
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 12, 2018, 01:34:23 AM
Metallica should do it then haha. ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfPxU88Qqkg
To be honest I wouldn’t be surprised...
Post by: jbaent on January 12, 2018, 10:13:54 AM
To me, seeing just John and David singing whatever song as a duet would be special enough.You're putting a brave face on it Julio but any performance without MK would be an embarrassment.
But we are in the wrong thread for this conversation...
We are talking about one off at the Hall Of Fame ceremony, not about a formal tour or something like that, we are talking about something where Phis or whatever its spells play Genesis songs of the Gabriel era while Genesis members (except Gabriel) look from their tables, where Neil Young plays with Led Zeppelin etc etc etc
To me, it looks like some of you are taking this too seriously... John and David can easily play with acoustic guitars "Wild West End" or "Six Blade Knife", even with Alan at the piano (as Alan and David did last year) just in representation of DS. It's not that serious, it's not that formal
Quote
The only song they could possibly get away with without a proper guitarist would be Walk of Life.
If they wanted to do Sultans or something they would need Marco or Terence or somebody. They would be a laughing stock.
Sent from my Tab2A7-20F using Tapatalk
John has sung and played even the lead guitar of Sultans in its own tours some years ago, now he is back to bass but he used to play guitar. I know it cringes but, again, this is just the Hall Of Fame ceremony, not a formal reunion. If it happens like this, is because MK doesn't attend, so look how serious and important is...
Post by: cannibals on January 12, 2018, 02:57:55 PM
Metallica should do it then haha. ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfPxU88Qqkg
To be honest I wouldn’t be surprised...
What about Joan Baez
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zJeNPS2tLdA
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 22, 2018, 07:02:53 PM
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 22, 2018, 07:11:27 PM
http://www.jornaldebrasilia.com.br/clica-brasilia/colecionadora-de-hits-banda-britanica-dire-straits-se-apresenta-no-df-pela-primeira-vez/
Post by: quizzaciously on January 22, 2018, 07:14:28 PM
This is disgusting...
http://www.jornaldebrasilia.com.br/clica-brasilia/colecionadora-de-hits-banda-britanica-dire-straits-se-apresenta-no-df-pela-primeira-vez/
Absolutely nothing wrong here :clap
* saint mode on *
Post by: superval99 on January 22, 2018, 07:32:51 PM
This is disgusting...
http://www.jornaldebrasilia.com.br/clica-brasilia/colecionadora-de-hits-banda-britanica-dire-straits-se-apresenta-no-df-pela-primeira-vez/
Outrageous! >:(
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 22, 2018, 07:53:41 PM
Post by: jbaent on January 22, 2018, 08:00:09 PM
Post by: dmg on January 22, 2018, 08:05:17 PM
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 22, 2018, 08:45:00 PM
I didn't read it as I don't know anything of Portuguese but... Who says they are DS... They, or the journalist?
They are not that dumb, they make sure it’s written Legacy, in tiny little letters, on every promo material. But they obviously sell it as a DS gig, that’s what media outlets are told.
Post by: Robson on January 22, 2018, 08:53:57 PM
Post by: jbaent on January 22, 2018, 08:56:17 PM
I didn't read it as I don't know anything of Portuguese but... Who says they are DS... They, or the journalist?
They are not that dumb, they make sure it’s written Legacy, in tiny little letters, on every promo material. But they obviously sell it as a DS gig, that’s what media outlets are told.
They don't sell the shows. The promoters do
Post by: Robson on January 22, 2018, 09:13:07 PM
Post by: jbaent on January 22, 2018, 09:26:00 PM
Yes of course. And they do not know anything about it. Sad
They don't mind as long as tickets are sold... All promoters do this kind of things. I'm sorry this doesn't fit with your hunger for fresh flesh but that's what ALL promoters do, always.
Post by: Robson on January 22, 2018, 09:30:01 PM
Post by: cannibals on January 22, 2018, 09:32:32 PM
Post by: Stanko on January 22, 2018, 09:48:37 PM
I found it very hard to believe that there still people in this world who think that Dire Straits still exist. Besides that everyone knowes by now that Mark Knopfler is not in so you know where you're going to if you buy tickets......:thumbsup
explains a lot!
Post by: quizzaciously on January 22, 2018, 10:07:11 PM
Yeah, not knowing what DS is and wether someone by the name of Mark Knopfler has something to do with it is bad. But hiring promoters who advertise you as Dire Straits is also bad. Everything's bad in this situation and you can try but minus times minus is not plus in this situation.
I mean people who moan are right and people who are against haters are all right either... This discussion is about nothing basically.
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 22, 2018, 10:42:15 PM
People are going to these gigs thinking they’re about to see DS with a new frontman. That’s the way it’s sold and the band knows it. If they didn’t they wouldn’t have a logo with Dire Straits written in huge capitol letters with a tiny legacy reference below it. What they’re doing is outrageous, disgusting, putrid.
My friend who went to the show sent me that photo, he truly thought he’d just seen a Dire Straits concert. Keep in mind that Mark hasn’t been here in 17 years, nobody apart from true fans and guitar players knows he’s got a solid solo career. Brazil is not in Europe... that’s the price you pay for ignoring an entire continent for so long. You get forgotten! If at least he released Blu-rays maybe general audiences would still be familiar with his name and his face but we know that’s not the case.
There’s a reason why these guys have come to Brazil twice in less than a year. And I’ve just told you what it is.
Post by: Robson on January 22, 2018, 10:56:50 PM
Post by: quizzaciously on January 22, 2018, 11:38:48 PM
Guys, I don’t know about other countries but I think I’m qualified to talk about Brazil...
People are going to these gigs thinking they’re about to see DS with a new frontman. That’s the way it’s sold and the band knows it. If they didn’t they wouldn’t have a logo with Dire Straits written in huge capitol letters with a tiny legacy reference below it. What they’re doing is outrageous, disgusting, putrid.
My friend who went to the show sent me that photo, he truly thought he’d just seen a Dire Straits concert. Keep in mind that Mark hasn’t been here in 17 years, nobody apart from true fans and guitar players knows he’s got a solid solo career. Brazil is not in Europe... that’s the price you pay for ignoring an entire continent for so long. You get forgotten! If at least he released Blu-rays maybe general audiences would still be familiar with his name and his face but we know that’s not the case.
There’s a reason why these guys have come to Brazil twice in less than a year. And I’ve just told you what it is.
Love your reasonable style of writing man. And also because the situation in Russia is quite the same... And you made me think and I just realised that on my channel I have most of the views (25% almost) from the only two countries Mark "tours" properly — US and Germany (sorry German folks, but the amount of MK concerts in Germany always makes me sick, and I know I'm not the only one).
And The Legacy guys also tours in Russia a lot maybe for this exact reason you described. Because we're also the "third world" country :'(
Oh, sorry, gotta go now, there's a Dire Straits concert's here soon and I can't miss on that one :-X
Post by: peterromer on January 23, 2018, 10:40:14 AM
The bottom line for me is that the album "3 Chord Trick" is a quite good album. The song "Looking For America" is a great song. I wish MK would write a song like that. MK´s guitar on that track would have made it a big hit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS3g25e8dFU
Does anyone know much the album has sold ?
Post by: jbaent on January 23, 2018, 10:52:58 AM
I also believe that promoters and journalists may have got it wrong or dont even care.
No Peter... promoters and journalist made it because the band members, as evil as they are, ordered to them to do that under menaces... promoters, as angelical they are, that they never do such things to sell the gigs whatever is done, had to do it... their life was under risk.
Quote
The bottom line for me is that the album "3 Chord Trick" is a quite good album. The song "Looking For America" is a great song. I wish MK would write a song like that. MK´s guitar on that track would have made it a big hit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS3g25e8dFU
Does anyone know much the album has sold ?
The album is quite good in my opinion, it gets played at least once a week in my car stereo, sometimes all the week in repeat.
Post by: DS on January 23, 2018, 11:08:15 AM
No Peter... promoters and journalist made it because the band members, as evil as they are, ordered to them to do that under menaces... promoters, as angelical they are, that they never do such things to sell the gigs whatever is done, had to do it... their life was under risk.
Of course this comes from promoters, but I think the issue here is that the Legacy members are ok with it (or at least they give this impression). And why would they be okay with it? Oh, right...
Post by: jbaent on January 23, 2018, 11:13:44 AM
No Peter... promoters and journalist made it because the band members, as evil as they are, ordered to them to do that under menaces... promoters, as angelical they are, that they never do such things to sell the gigs whatever is done, had to do it... their life was under risk.
Of course this comes from promoters, but I think the issue here is that the Legacy members are ok with it (or at least they give this impression). And why would they be okay with it? Oh, right...
They were announced in Italy once as Dire Straits, with no other mention of Legends/LEgacy etc and they had an argument with the promoters about it but all was done so there was nothing they could do. They talk about this incident from time to time.
John Illsley and David Knopfler got announced with Dire Straits even bigger than its own names too frequently. You can't control all the promoters in the world, and in the end you know they are going to do whatever they can to sell the shows...
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 23, 2018, 02:01:28 PM
There is a huge difference between David Knopfler of Dire Straits or Dire Straits' founder John Illsley and DIRE STRAITS legacy, don't you think?
Come on, interviews have been posted here. The TV host announces them as Dire Straits and they never deny or correct it. They know what's going on, they are part of the problem. If they really wanted to avoid any misleading promotion they wouldn't have adopted the band name they 'chose'.
Regarding their album, its quality is irrelevant in the given context. I particulary liked it despite the atrocious vocals. Of course Mark's songs are far superior, the difference is huge, and the tune Peter mentioned is the worst one in my opinion. And if that's so good with so much effort and passion invested in it why not tour promoting it under the name Legacy instead of acting like scavengers? Make no mistake, they know what they are doing and they know people are being fooled.
If that's ok or not it depends on a number of things I won't list here. To me they are just 'shadows passing through'.
And last but not least, it's Mark's fault as well. If he hadn't ignored South America for so long people would know this band is a fraud. But since he doesn't seem to care about us I don't think he will mind what Alan and his gang are doing. At least he shouldn't.
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 23, 2018, 02:12:24 PM
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 23, 2018, 02:31:02 PM
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 23, 2018, 02:34:38 PM
Post by: D44mu on January 23, 2018, 04:58:29 PM
When i saw the poster of Dire Straits Legacy the first thing that came in my mind:
"On the road again in cabaret
Grey hair and Fenders
Old ghosts revisited today
No original members"
Post by: Robson on January 23, 2018, 05:43:31 PM
D44mu :thumbsup
Post by: Robson on January 23, 2018, 06:13:36 PM
Post by: quizzaciously on January 23, 2018, 09:00:58 PM
Mark has a very loose attitude to all this. Danny Cummings plays on new album MK 8)
But he doesn't have a choice. Telling something = free advertising, telling something bad = free advertising and anti-advertising on himself.
Danny's situation is a great demonstration of MK being not a despot at all. As long as you can play and love music, nothing is stopping you.
Pretty sure if Alan and Co. would be somewhat useful for Mark, they'd play whatever they want with whoever they want. But they're not.