A Mark In Time

Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Dwf2008 on January 29, 2019, 03:07:52 am

Title: Guitar tones
Post by: Dwf2008 on January 29, 2019, 03:07:52 am
Is there any discussion here about how to achieve Mark’s guitar tones?
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: Pottel on January 29, 2019, 08:47:19 am
not that i can remember.
his and Gilmour's tone are my favourite. but i guess you wanna discuss technical details, right?
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: Rolo on January 29, 2019, 02:04:16 pm
Is there any discussion here about how to achieve Mark’s guitar tones?

Ask me anything you want to know about it  ;)
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 29, 2019, 02:06:34 pm
Guy would say that's in the fingers lol
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: quizzaciously on January 29, 2019, 09:43:44 pm
Guy would say that's in the fingers lol

And he would be absolutely right. I've seen a lot of people nailing MK's tone gear-wise, but if you don't know how to move your fingers properly, then it's like having a Ferrari and driving it off-road. I'd prefer having better fingers, rather than "close to Mark" tone.
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: PensaGhost on January 30, 2019, 01:01:06 am
Guy would say that's in the fingers lol

and he is right

still lot to discuss on the technical side
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: Dwf2008 on January 30, 2019, 07:37:10 am
To all who responded, thank you. Yes, I know its all in the fingers, NOT. Try sounding like Money For Nothing with just your fingers. There are for sure amp settings, pedals, and other equipment that help make the sound. The reason I ask of course is I want to learn some of these great songs and the learning is much easier if I can make my amp sound like his amp.

Rolo, thanks for the invite. Right now I am chasing that metalic twang in the electric portion of Silver Eagle and Piper to the End. Also, the Money For Nothing sound is interesting.

Thanks
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: Eddie Fox on January 30, 2019, 01:38:48 pm
I agree with Guy too, guys. Mark sounds like Mark with any guitar, amp or pedal. However, I think it's a technical question...
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: Rolo on January 30, 2019, 04:33:11 pm
Rolo, thanks for the invite. Right now I am chasing that metalic twang in the electric portion of Silver Eagle and Piper to the End. Also, the Money For Nothing sound is interesting.

Thanks

You are welcome.

It's well known that that tones came from the fingers. Guy tends, with his answers, to create some mystery about the guitar tones.

There is no big secret about the tones. In the studio, MK records mostly all dry and the effects will came after. Well, it depends of the song.
Some people thinks that is something hidden, but no. Theres no secret at all.

Answering your questions:

The electric portion of Silver Eagle came, for sure, from a Gretsch with vibrola and single-coils (dynasonic pickups i believe) plugged, probally on a Tone King or an old Fender amp.
Reverb and Delay came from the board.
Ah, and played with picks.

The non-expensive gear to have this tone its a SSS or HSS Strat plugged on a clean amp (add some trebble) with some reverb and delay (short time - medium repetition)


The Piper To The End tone came from a Grosh Electrajet with P90s (same as used on the concerts). Played on the bridge pickup and probally plugged on a Komet, Marshall or Reinhardt amp. Again, reverb and delay came from the board.

The non-expensive gear for this tone is the same from the Silver Eagle, but you will need and overdrive pedal or the amp drive channel. Not to much trebble and a bit more of mids.


For the MFN, i made a video many years ago about how to reach the tone from the BIA Album unsing a modest gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUT2MceeTQ

I am pretty sure that Mark recorded MFN with a Les Paul Junior with P90s (Same on So Far From The Clyde) plugged on a Marshall amp (maybe a JTM45) with some effects like flanger, delay, a bit of reverb and, of course, the wah.


Basically, for the non-Les Paul tones, you can use a stratocaster.
Try to get the best tone possible, clean or distorted, just with the guitar and amp. After this, add the effects little by little.

Thats it!

I hope you like the "answers".
Feel free to ask anything you want.
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: PensaGhost on January 30, 2019, 05:50:05 pm
To all who responded, thank you. Yes, I know its all in the fingers, NOT. Try sounding like Money For Nothing with just your fingers. There are for sure amp settings, pedals, and other equipment that help make the sound. The reason I ask of course is I want to learn some of these great songs and the learning is much easier if I can make my amp sound like his amp.

Rolo, thanks for the invite. Right now I am chasing that metalic twang in the electric portion of Silver Eagle and Piper to the End. Also, the Money For Nothing sound is interesting.

Thanks

it's obviously not 100% in the fingers, but mostly yes, the majority of the dynamics of a tone is due to how you touch the strings

re Money for Nothing, you find attached info for the On Every Street tour

(https://i.postimg.cc/GmcLxcvP/OES.jpg)
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: Dwf2008 on January 30, 2019, 08:43:53 pm
Thank you Rolo and PensaGhost. You at least understood what I was asking. For the record, I agree with those who say its all inthe fingers. It is in fact the playing style that makes each artist unique. I don’t ever expect to sound just like Mark as he is many many times more skilled than me. But I do at least want to capture the feel of his songs. I like to think of it as the fingers add the icing on the cake. Now if I can just decipher that chart. :)
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: koobaa on January 30, 2019, 09:31:34 pm
Check out Ingo's site for wealth of information on Mark's gear and playing style: https://www.mk-guitar.com/

If you dig deep enough you'll find an article that explains the OES tour guitar settings chart.

There it is: https://www.mk-guitar.com/2008/11/21/mark-knopfler-amp-and-effect-settings-on-the-on-every-street-tour/

Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: PensaGhost on January 31, 2019, 12:33:40 am
Thank you Rolo and PensaGhost. You at least understood what I was asking. For the record, I agree with those who say its all inthe fingers. It is in fact the playing style that makes each artist unique. I don’t ever expect to sound just like Mark as he is many many times more skilled than me. But I do at least want to capture the feel of his songs. I like to think of it as the fingers add the icing on the cake. Now if I can just decipher that chart. :)

the best thing you can do is to train your ears, they are the ones that control your fingers
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: JF on February 03, 2019, 10:08:42 pm
I am pretty sure that Mark recorded MFN with a Les Paul Junior with P90s (Same on So Far From The Clyde) plugged on a Marshall amp (maybe a JTM45) with some effects like flanger, delay, a bit of reverb and, of course, the wah.


NO there is NO wah on the studio version
it's only the 84 Les Paul reissue, into the JTM 45

https://www.mk-guitar.com/2008/11/19/mark-knopflers-jtm-45-marshall-amp-of-money-for-nothing-and-brothers-in-arms/ (https://www.mk-guitar.com/2008/11/19/mark-knopflers-jtm-45-marshall-amp-of-money-for-nothing-and-brothers-in-arms/)


the tone has been provided by the microphone slightly desaxed, and it got this phasing/nasal/harmonic thing.
It's explained by Neil Dorfsman in an article that was posted here some time ago

in 85-86 and 88 and 90, Mark played the song live WITHOUT wah

when they re-recorded the song's parody in 1991 with Goran Ikovic (not sure about the name) Guy gave the idea of the wah, and then it was used on tour from 1991 to 2005
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: Rolo on February 04, 2019, 08:44:25 pm

NO there is NO wah on the studio version
it's only the 84 Les Paul reissue, into the JTM 45

https://www.mk-guitar.com/2008/11/19/mark-knopflers-jtm-45-marshall-amp-of-money-for-nothing-and-brothers-in-arms/ (https://www.mk-guitar.com/2008/11/19/mark-knopflers-jtm-45-marshall-amp-of-money-for-nothing-and-brothers-in-arms/)


the tone has been provided by the microphone slightly desaxed, and it got this phasing/nasal/harmonic thing.
It's explained by Neil Dorfsman in an article that was posted here some time ago

in 85-86 and 88 and 90, Mark played the song live WITHOUT wah

when they re-recorded the song's parody in 1991 with Goran Ikovic (not sure about the name) Guy gave the idea of the wah, and then it was used on tour from 1991 to 2005

Yep.
No wah and Laney amp.
I read this article long time ago about a LP junior.

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/classic-tracks-dire-straits-money-nothing#4


Cheers!  ;)
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: JF on February 05, 2019, 02:45:09 pm

NO there is NO wah on the studio version
it's only the 84 Les Paul reissue, into the JTM 45

https://www.mk-guitar.com/2008/11/19/mark-knopflers-jtm-45-marshall-amp-of-money-for-nothing-and-brothers-in-arms/ (https://www.mk-guitar.com/2008/11/19/mark-knopflers-jtm-45-marshall-amp-of-money-for-nothing-and-brothers-in-arms/)


the tone has been provided by the microphone slightly desaxed, and it got this phasing/nasal/harmonic thing.
It's explained by Neil Dorfsman in an article that was posted here some time ago

in 85-86 and 88 and 90, Mark played the song live WITHOUT wah

when they re-recorded the song's parody in 1991 with Goran Ikovic (not sure about the name) Guy gave the idea of the wah, and then it was used on tour from 1991 to 2005

Yep.
No wah and Laney amp.
I read this article long time ago about a LP junior.

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/classic-tracks-dire-straits-money-nothing#4


Cheers!  ;)


yes that's the one (the article)

not sure about the junior. Dorfsmann might remember not very accurate things.
I never saw a junior among Mark's guitars on studio pics. Of course he could have borrowed one

when people are interviewed some time ago after the facts, they may remember things "in general", but it's not a 100% proof

even Mark made some mistakes in interviews, and even infos provided by Chuck and Guy about the same session were sometimes different...

Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: Rolo on February 05, 2019, 04:46:54 pm

yes that's the one (the article)

not sure about the junior. Dorfsmann might remember not very accurate things.
I never saw a junior among Mark's guitars on studio pics. Of course he could have borrowed one

when people are interviewed some time ago after the facts, they may remember things "in general", but it's not a 100% proof

even Mark made some mistakes in interviews, and even infos provided by Chuck and Guy about the same session were sometimes different...

Hehehe... Mark and the boys doesn't remember too much from the recording sessions.
 
The classic (recent) case is the 54 Strat played on 'The Trawlerman's Song'. Its obvious that the lead tone came from a LP.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: JF on February 06, 2019, 10:51:25 am
Hehehe... Mark and the boys doesn't remember too much from the recording sessions.
 
The classic (recent) case is the 54 Strat played on 'The Trawlerman's Song'. Its obvious that the lead tone came from a LP.

Cheers!

I had exactly this example in mind !  :thumbsup ;D

but he played the 54 strat on tour, so maybe he tried it in studio, and that's what he was remembering ?  :think
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: diremark86 on February 06, 2019, 04:47:54 pm
If it is just the MFN sound you are looking for, I highly recommend this pedal:
(https://i.ibb.co/ZTf1Cf2/IMG-1632.jpg)

You will want an isolated power supply though because it can get a bit rowdy otherwise.
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: border_reiver on February 07, 2019, 09:15:57 pm
It took two minutes just to scroll around that image.  ;)
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: primi on February 09, 2019, 10:16:21 pm
The important thing is this "push to get chicks for free" button and you can see that with little to no scrolling around  ;D
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: diremark86 on February 12, 2019, 03:23:31 pm
Yeah, sorry, apparently that image host has no option to resize. I checked twice :-/
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: PensaGhost on February 12, 2019, 04:28:20 pm
Yeah, sorry, apparently that image host has no option to resize. I checked twice :-/

you just have to change [img] into [img width=700] or 500 600 800 anything that's proper for that image
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: diremark86 on February 12, 2019, 06:04:56 pm
Yeah, sorry, apparently that image host has no option to resize. I checked twice :-/

you just have to change [img] into [img width=700] or 500 600 800 anything that's proper for that image

Had to delete and make a new album. Apparently you can't change the size at all after its been uploaded. I miss the good old days of free photobucket....

After I resized the original file, I understood what you meant. Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: diremark86 on February 12, 2019, 06:09:03 pm
And since I was uploading anyways......

(https://i.ibb.co/DD9m9Ms/IMG-1040.jpg)
Title: Re: Guitar tones
Post by: Justme on February 12, 2019, 07:57:13 pm
Hey, pr0n is forbidden at AMIT!  ;D ;D

 :wave