A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: the visitor on January 27, 2021, 10:19:08 PM
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I found this interview with Chris Whitten where he talks about how he got the gig with Dire Straits and quite candidly about his experience. Sounds like he never really wanted to do the gig and got pushed into it by his manager .. and didn't even like Dire Straits songs. And guess what.. you can tell on the recordings from that tour.
I never understood why they didn't use Terry, he clearly loved the music and played with passion. The interview also confirms what we thought about Mark and drummers....
Listen to Who the hell is Chris Whitten? by Darko.Audio podcast on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/9ZxSu
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Manu Katché said the same thing about Mark during the recording of OES, that he was difficult to work with and that he was so perfectionist that it was exhausting.
I remember reading somewhere an interview with Mark where he said that he would advise anyone who wanted to get involved in this kind of industry to have a great drummer.
I think working with Mark is like working for Ferrari or Bentley, every little detail is important and that's what makes the final product just perfect.
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Manu Katché said the same thing about Mark during the recording of OES, that he was difficult to work with and that he was so perfectionist that it was exhausting.
I remember reading somewhere an interview with Mark where he said that he would advise anyone who wanted to get involved in this kind of industry to have a great drummer.
I think working with Mark is like working for Ferrari or Bentley, every little detail is important and that's what makes the final product just perfect.
I totally agree with you.
Even the smallest detail can change something average into something extraordinary.
And Mark Knopfler is a master of details. This is what makes his work so special.
Thanks for the interview!
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I found this interview with Chris Whitten where he talks about how he got the gig with Dire Straits and quite candidly about his experience. Sounds like he never really wanted to do the gig and got pushed into it by his manager .. and didn't even like Dire Straits songs. And guess what.. you can tell on the recordings from that tour.
I never understood why they didn't use Terry, he clearly loved the music and played with passion. The interview also confirms what we thought about Mark and drummers....
Listen to Who the hell is Chris Whitten? by Darko.Audio podcast on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/9ZxSu
wow, almost two hours of interview...
I found he talks about DS between minute 39.54 and 47.50 more or less, I don't know if he talks again about DS.
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Funny that he says the same thing than Pick in his interviews: the sound was too loud, and he couldn't stand it. He talks about the PA system he had to be able to hear his drums when all guitars were roaring, and that he ended almost deaf. Pretty similar that what Picks said about the OL tour. And this was less loud than the OES tour...
Sad that he didn't like DS and confirms that Mark was an ogre.
He said he became a zombie. And we know that even Mark couldn't stand it either in the end. DS had become a monster and had to die.
Paradox of this tour, extreme technicity, world-class musicianship...but little soul.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXNN1HT9wE
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That's pretty awesome playing for somebody who actually doesn't like the music!
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That's pretty awesome playing for somebody who actually doesn't like the music!
Obviously, he hates it because he's recording videos like this after all these years :lol
I might be biased because I listened to On The Night for days when I was 15 and later on, but I always loved the drumming of this guy. So many times I even played air drums along with him! Certainly, I can't understand how the fact that "he doesn't like the music" can affect the sound of the song. He may not love the song, but damn, he loves what he's doing.
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I am no drummer but if I didn't like the music I could not play it with such engagement. Come on Chris, admit it - you love it!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXNN1HT9wE
same grimaces after 30 years, he liked my youtube comment :lol :lol
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I am no drummer but if I didn't like the music I could not play it with such engagement. Come on Chris, admit it - you love it!
When play drums is your work and you got a call from a big name you don't like, you should say yes unless you have something better. Usually play for a big name brings you more work as it adds prestige to you as a proffesional drummer.
Same goes with any other proffesional player of whatever instrument.
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Chris Whitten commenting the video:
"Yeah, same grimace"
"I liked OES because of Jeff and Manu. Jeff's playing was the main reason I agreed to do the long tour. "
"I was lucky that Danny was so good. He was fun to play with. Robert Collins mixed the out front sound and by all reports he did an amazing job!"
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Chris Whitten commenting the video:
"Yeah, same grimace"
"I liked OES because of Jeff and Manu. Jeff's playing was the main reason I agreed to do the long tour. "
"I was lucky that Danny was so good. He was fun to play with. Robert Collins mixed the out front sound and by all reports he did an amazing job!"
Great!
That's a nice video that he did. I've always wondered, once a musician knows a song, plays it a million times, does he know it for life or does he have to rehearse after some time off? For example, did Chris rehearse the song prior doing this video? Dunno -- will ask him then ;D
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Chris Whitten commenting the video:
"Yeah, same grimace"
"I liked OES because of Jeff and Manu. Jeff's playing was the main reason I agreed to do the long tour. "
"I was lucky that Danny was so good. He was fun to play with. Robert Collins mixed the out front sound and by all reports he did an amazing job!"
Great!
That's a nice video that he did. I've always wondered, once a musician knows a song, plays it a million times, does he know it for life or does he have to rehearse after some time off? For example, did Chris rehearse the song prior doing this video? Dunno -- will ask him then ;D
know for life
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Chris Whitten commenting the video:
"Yeah, same grimace"
"I liked OES because of Jeff and Manu. Jeff's playing was the main reason I agreed to do the long tour. "
"I was lucky that Danny was so good. He was fun to play with. Robert Collins mixed the out front sound and by all reports he did an amazing job!"
Great!
That's a nice video that he did. I've always wondered, once a musician knows a song, plays it a million times, does he know it for life or does he have to rehearse after some time off? For example, did Chris rehearse the song prior doing this video? Dunno -- will ask him then ;D
know for life
It depends solely on the difficulty level. If it's terribly complicated, no way any human being would remember anything after 30 years. However, if that something rather simple, that you can recollect fast in real-time, of course, that's with you forever. I think the basic grooves and ideas Chris could easily remember by heart. Because, as he said, a lot of it is just The Rosanna shuffle and some hi-hat grooves.
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Chris Whitten commenting the video:
"Yeah, same grimace"
"I liked OES because of Jeff and Manu. Jeff's playing was the main reason I agreed to do the long tour. "
"I was lucky that Danny was so good. He was fun to play with. Robert Collins mixed the out front sound and by all reports he did an amazing job!"
So he did like the music after all. You have to enjoy it at least a bit to be convincing enough to get hired for the job, no matter how professional you are.
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Thanks for sharing the video :thumbsup
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Even More
Is there a specific gig you remember vividly (maybe the crowd, set list, energy etc)?
"Well Nimes and Verona, both beautiful Roman buildings"
could you PLEASE do another video on your version of SULTANS OF SWING, Basel 1992. of all the previous straits drummers, you totally nailed it and is the best version ever!
"I’ll put it on the list. I don’t actually think i ‘nailed’ it. I think I understand better how it should be played now"
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Even More
Is there a specific gig you remember vividly (maybe the crowd, set list, energy etc)?
"Well Nimes and Verona, both beautiful Roman buildings"
could you PLEASE do another video on your version of SULTANS OF SWING, Basel 1992. of all the previous straits drummers, you totally nailed it and is the best version ever!
"I’ll put it on the list. I don’t actually think i ‘nailed’ it. I think I understand better how it should be played now"
I always thought that his sultans version was a total disaster.
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Even More
Is there a specific gig you remember vividly (maybe the crowd, set list, energy etc)?
"Well Nimes and Verona, both beautiful Roman buildings"
could you PLEASE do another video on your version of SULTANS OF SWING, Basel 1992. of all the previous straits drummers, you totally nailed it and is the best version ever!
"I’ll put it on the list. I don’t actually think i ‘nailed’ it. I think I understand better how it should be played now"
I always thought that his sultans version was a total disaster.
+1 on that
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the guy played the song some 230 times that tour, i am pretty sure muscle memory will kick in till he dies..
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the guy played the song some 230 times that tour, i am pretty sure muscle memory will kick in till he dies..
If I was him, I would had gone to therapy to forget that mess of drumming in Sultans.
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If I was him, I would had gone to therapy to forget that mess of drumming in Sultans.
Sure I agree - hi guys.
Some people are pointing out that Mark completely called the shots 100%, then you and another are making out it was my idea to play Sultans that way. Nope.
The person who started the thread took the most extreme negative view, but I'm glad to see most others pointed out Pick had a similar experience, Manu turned down the tour and so did Porcaro actually.
It wasn't exactly that I didn't like Dire Straits. Their albums weren't in my CD player at the time. Mainly I had heard how difficult Mark was to work with. I had just done McCartney for three years. I knew how to work at the highest level, with extremely talented artists. When someone doesn't smile at you for a two hour show, for 350 shows and never once pats you on the back for a job well done in 1.5 years -that IS someone who is difficult to work with.
We rehearsed for a couple of months.
When we set up on the actual touring stage for the first time my drums were placed at the back right, high above Mark and John. When we started playing Mark said he couldn't feel the drums. He instructed me to play on my own, kept saying play louder in his mic until I was playing as hard as I could. At that point he said great, keep it like that.
So for most of a two hour show I was aways playing as loud as I could. Which IMO didn't suit the music and yes, ruined songs with a light feel like Sultans of Swing.
It's funny because last year Pick did a bunch of interviews and said exactly the same thing happened to him in the early 80's. One of the main reasons he left DS. He was constantly being told to play louder until he felt he was just bashing the drums the entire show. I never knew that until I watched his recent interviews.
Back to the '92 tour, of course as a professional I tried to play my absolute best all the time, and play the music in a way that honoured the people who had paid a lot of money to come see the show. If you are ing t d something for over a year, you might as well do it to the best of your ability, take some pride in it.
Ed Bicknel has said publicly it was the most gruelling godawful depressing tour Dire Straits ever did. I don't think Mark wanted to do the tour from the start. His head was already in that Nashville space. I think he did the tour to promote the album, give John, Guy and Alan a good send off (and pay day), but once he realised the enormity of what he'd signed up to, over a year on the road, he just became an unhappy camper, miserable and borderline angry the whole time.
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I also talk about it more in this podcast:
https://www.drummersresource.com/chris-whitten-interview/
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Thank you for this update Chris and welcome to the forum :clap :wave
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I also talk about it more in this podcast:
https://www.drummersresource.com/chris-whitten-interview/
Yeah, welcome and kudos to you for joining the relevant discussion! There are a lot of fans of your playing, me included.
The question though, is that "obsession" with drums loudness is something uncommon in the biz? And what could be the reason for it? Doesn't seem normal to me.
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I also talk about it more in this podcast:
https://www.drummersresource.com/chris-whitten-interview/
Wow Chris, that's very honest from you. Thanks for sharing that with us.
We'll love to see you in one of your Instagram videos playing Sultans like you would had liken to play.
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It's not normal.
Loudness feels like energy. Sometimes artists that are too self conscious cover it up with volume and energy.
When I was down stage playing on Sultans, Mark's guitar was so loud I couldn't really hear my drums.
Before I heard Pick (in 2021?) talk about his issue being told to play so loud all the time, I put my experience down to bad stage design.
That was also definitely a factor.
It looked great, but wasn't correct for the vibe Mark was after. On the Brothers tour, Terry was centre stage and just behind Mark.
Because they hired Danny Cummings in 92, but also Paul Franklin, they decided to assign stage positions in convenient sectors. So you had the three main guitars at ground level Phil, Mark and John).
Next level up you had Chris White, the two keyboard rigs and Paul Franklin. Above them, and effectively above Mark's head, they put Danny and me.
I guess the idea was that Mark would hear my drums through his monitors, but in realty he wanted to FEEL the drums, and that was impossible with me so far away, up the back, above his head.
But apart from all that, as I say, it was just an extremely unhappy tour from the start, from 'the boss' down.
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My two favourite drummers on SOS where Chris W and Chad. Thanks to Chris for the insight on this theme.
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We'll love to see you in one of your Instagram videos playing Sultans like you would had liken to play.
I had actually been planning it for a while, but now the criticism has put me off.
Essentially I don't think anyone has played it well other than Pick. It is light, with dancing on the snare and cymbals to match Mark's guitar work. Most people post Pick have played loud rimshot backbeats. Including me (sadly). Mark absolutely ruled that tour with a rod of iron. I don't think I had the balls to suddenly start playing the song much lighter.
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"I’ll put it on the list. I don’t actually think i ‘nailed’ it. I think I understand better how it should be played now"
As per the above quote from earlier in the discussion.
I already admitted it should have been played differently, but that option was never really given to me.
On the McCartney tour I was valued and nurtured. I was allowed to basically play how I wanted, and I did play loud rock most of the show, but sometimes very light on songs like The Long And Winding Road
On the OES tour Mark basically told everyone what to play, except maybe Paul Franklin who he greatly admired.
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We'll love to see you in one of your Instagram videos playing Sultans like you would had liken to play.
I had actually been planning it for a while, but now the criticism has put me off.
Essentially I don't think anyone has played it well other than Pick. It is light, with dancing on the snare and cymbals to match Mark's guitar work. Most people post Pick have played loud rimshot backbeats. Including me (sadly). Mark absolutely ruled that tour with a rod of iron. I don't think I had the balls to suddenly start playing the song much lighter.
Actually we know now of first hand that it wasn't you who ruined Sultans but Mark!
Listening to Tripping the live fantastic, I always thought that in comparison with On the night, it sounded like two different drummers, now I understand why.
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Well, I enjoy your playing on the OES tour Chris! Actually OES is my favourite tour together with the first one.
I do understand it must have been a hard tour to do! But still. So many great songs played so well.
If you would like to, it would be really nice to learn more about how you approached songs like Planet Of New Orleans and Telegraph Road 🙂
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"I’ll put it on the list. I don’t actually think i ‘nailed’ it. I think I understand better how it should be played now"
As per the above quote from earlier in the discussion.
I already admitted it should have been played differently, but that option was never really given to me.
On the McCartney tour I was valued and nurtured. I was allowed to basically play how I wanted, and I did play loud rock most of the show, but sometimes very light on songs like The Long And Winding Road
On the OES tour Mark basically told everyone what to play, except maybe Paul Franklin who he greatly admired.
Phil Palmer mentioned in his book "session man" how he had Danny trying all his shakers for hours, and in the end he asked him to take out some of the things inside one of them, and decided that was the one.
Also mentions when he had Phil playing the OES chords at the end with many different guitars and amps combinations, also for hours!
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Thanks all for the last few comments.
Again, I didn't turn down the tour because 'I didn't like Dire Straits'. I hadn't particularly followed DS other than the hits - Sultans, Walk Of Life, Money etc...
I left McCartney in 1990 because I saw myself as a studio drummer. Previous to Paul I had played on various records over the 80's and really enjoyed it. Some were hits.
I wasn't really interested in going out on another (even longer) tour.
DS asked two or three times, and on the third time my manager said I should really just go and meet them.
I went to Air Studios and recorded on the same songs Porcaro had played on, that was the audition. I loved what Jeff had played. Mark and John were friendly.
It was those two things that persuaded me to do the tour, the chance to recreate Jeff's great drum performances on stage, and maybe Mark wasn't as 'down' on drummers as I had heard.
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Hello Chris, hopefully you weren't too offended by my post opening this thread. Being told what to play and how loud explains it all rather than you not liking the songs at all; maybe that's just what I took from the interview incorrectly. I think Dire Straits were in a different space when you were with them and interesting to hear Mark's head was already in Nashville. Thanks very much for stating your case .
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Very interesting discussion here with Chris. I personally never had a problem with the OES tour drumming on Sultans, but I never really liked the drumming on Telegraph Road. It felt like a running of the bulls song by the final guitar solo. Of course, like Chris said, Mark was unbearable by then. He obviously didn't want to do the tour, got bored, angry and was dealing with a divorce. He just told people exactly what to do for 350 shows, and where there's no artistic freedom, there's no possibility of delivering a good performance. I listen to the album and the tour performances a lot and I always enjoy your work on Calling Elvis and Private Investigations among others...
Thanks Chris for your comments.
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sorry to hear the tour was a bit of downer vibe-wise, Chris. It being 350 shows must have been a drag at some point. Way too long a tour for anyone's good, that is.
But! Just so you know; I have played the On The Night record and video (had it on VHS, never forget;-) at least a thousand times. Probably 2 thousand ;-)
It got me into Dire Straits and will always be a very, very special record to me. Maybe even thé most.
That Brothers in Arms version is absolute magic. The whole build up. Still goosebumps, every time.
So I'd just like to say; thank you!
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Just to chip in here, MK might have been a grumpy sod at that time, but the On The Night version of You and Your Friend - you guys knock it 110% out of the ballpark. :clap
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i have an entirely different question for Chris:
How did you make it onto here?
and personally, also for me On the Night was my getting into DS live (before that, and the world of the internet, all i had was my fathers Making movies, Love over gold, BIA and Dire Straits vinyl records)
it made me go to my first show, in Werchter, Belgium, 1992.05.27, which for me at the time felt like some holy moment.
i always thought you were playing, ...powerful, but i got shit drumming knowledge, nor does it interest me anymore then it being the important backbone to all the music i so love.
Also, i knew your name as Jbaent did from the live Macca album you did, which i absolutely loved.
Care to share anymore insights, good or bad, on the whole experience of touring?
Also, what are you doing these days?
thnx.
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Essentially I don't think anyone has played it well other than Pick. It is light, with dancing on the snare and cymbals to match Mark's guitar work.
Danny in 2010 :)
Welcome Chris, it's very brave from you to put some insight into this here. I guess it must be complicated to share your experience on a die-hard forum fans like this one, even 30 years after. However it's very valuable to have some feedback from someone who actually lived the whole thing, something that we couldn't just imagine back in the days! The 1991-92 tour was coincidentally what really brought me into Mark's music, being a young dude at that time, so it brings me very fond memories.
Unfortunately for me, I can't comment on how the show sounded live because I never had the opportunity to attend it so I'll miss a go.
Having toured with Dire Straits for almost two years (and I remember that you played a few gigs with a tribute band some years ago), would you be able to play these songs again? I mean, would it be like, rehearsal for a bit and then be ready for the show?
Also, there's a lot of talks here about how to play or not to play Sultans but are there any other songs from the set that you would have liked to play completely differently?
And, one more question if I may, what is more comfortable for a band? Playing the same show over and over again which was the case for most of the 1992 leg, or vary the set a bit night after night, to keep it fresh and alive?
Of course feel free to answer or not, and thank you for your contribution to this thread and… to the Dire Straits history too! ;D :thumbsup
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Welcome Chris, thank you for your insights.
On the plus side, you got to be a Thunderbird puppet. :)
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great of chris going out his way to post on here much appreciated,i personally was critical of the drumming on the oes tour as being robbotic,being told exactly how to play on each song would explain why it sounded as such.
having now watched lots of chris whittens drumming away from dire straits well wow what a special drummer he really is,superb!!!!!
if jeff porcaro had accepted the invitation to do the tour he would have been put in the same poition as chris and been playing the exact same way as per mk instruction.once again thanks chris for the explanation on this forum,top man
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great of chris going out his way to post on here much appreciated,i personally was critical of the drumming on the oes tour as being robbotic,being told exactly how to play on each song would explain why it sounded as such.
having now watched lots of chris whittens drumming away from dire straits well wow what a special drummer he really is,superb!!!!!
if jeff porcaro had accepted the invitation to do the tour he would have been put in the same poition as chris and been playing the exact same way as per mk instruction.once again thanks chris for the explanation on this forum,top man
I don't think MK would had dared to say Jeff Porcaro how to play, you need to have very big balls to say the best drummer in the world how to play! How sad he left us while DS was on tour :-[
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great of chris going out his way to post on here much appreciated,i personally was critical of the drumming on the oes tour as being robbotic,being told exactly how to play on each song would explain why it sounded as such.
having now watched lots of chris whittens drumming away from dire straits well wow what a special drummer he really is,superb!!!!!
if jeff porcaro had accepted the invitation to do the tour he would have been put in the same poition as chris and been playing the exact same way as per mk instruction.once again thanks chris for the explanation on this forum,top man
I don't think MK would had dared to say Jeff Porcaro how to play, you need to have very big balls to say the best drummer in the world how to play! How sad he left us while DS was on tour :-[
Personally, I don't see any trouble in Mark giving instructions on how to play something, whoever the recipient of instructions is. If he wants a certain sound, why not?
I also don't think that tour could be "happy" in its essence. No tour should last that long, it's ridiculous. Break your families, exhaust yourself for what? To say you had a bigger tour than somebody else? Never was a fan of Mark bragging about long tours.
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I don't think MK would had dared to say Jeff Porcaro how to play, you need to have very big balls to say the best drummer in the world how to play! How sad he left us while DS was on tour :-[
Re. Mark's personnel, I think we all pretty much understood how it has always worked over the years:
a) The boss is happy with your work, you can stay.
b) You're not happy, then leave.
c) For whatever reason the boss is not happy with your work or thinks he has found better, then you're out. As good as it gets.
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The BiA tour was about the same length and it was happy was it not?
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The BiA tour was about the same length and it was happy was it not?
I thought about that too.
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Sure I agree - hi guys.
Some people are pointing out that Mark completely called the shots 100%, then you and another are making out it was my idea to play Sultans that way. Nope.
The person who started the thread took the most extreme negative view, but I'm glad to see most others pointed out Pick had a similar experience, Manu turned down the tour and so did Porcaro actually.
It wasn't exactly that I didn't like Dire Straits. Their albums weren't in my CD player at the time. Mainly I had heard how difficult Mark was to work with. I had just done McCartney for three years. I knew how to work at the highest level, with extremely talented artists. When someone doesn't smile at you for a two hour show, for 350 shows and never once pats you on the back for a job well done in 1.5 years -that IS someone who is difficult to work with.
We rehearsed for a couple of months.
When we set up on the actual touring stage for the first time my drums were placed at the back right, high above Mark and John. When we started playing Mark said he couldn't feel the drums. He instructed me to play on my own, kept saying play louder in his mic until I was playing as hard as I could. At that point he said great, keep it like that.
So for most of a two hour show I was aways playing as loud as I could. Which IMO didn't suit the music and yes, ruined songs with a light feel like Sultans of Swing.
It's funny because last year Pick did a bunch of interviews and said exactly the same thing happened to him in the early 80's. One of the main reasons he left DS. He was constantly being told to play louder until he felt he was just bashing the drums the entire show. I never knew that until I watched his recent interviews.
Back to the '92 tour, of course as a professional I tried to play my absolute best all the time, and play the music in a way that honoured the people who had paid a lot of money to come see the show. If you are ing t d something for over a year, you might as well do it to the best of your ability, take some pride in it.
Ed Bicknel has said publicly it was the most gruelling godawful depressing tour Dire Straits ever did. I don't think Mark wanted to do the tour from the start. His head was already in that Nashville space. I think he did the tour to promote the album, give John, Guy and Alan a good send off (and pay day), but once he realised the enormity of what he'd signed up to, over a year on the road, he just became an unhappy camper, miserable and borderline angry the whole time.
Hi Chris, thanks for sharing your point of view! As a kid, I watched the On The Night VHS so many times I still more or less know all your fills and grooves. Of course, when I got older, I got to know some background info on the OES tour and listened to many other tours, but I still have that same warm feeling when I listen to or see the OTN recording :)
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The BiA tour was about the same length and it was happy was it not?
I thought about that too.
It's easier the first time ;D I already forgot it from John's book, but I remember he said it was still insanely long and it still would affect personal life. How it can't?? It's basically like you're in the army now.
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The BiA tour was about the same length and it was happy was it not?
Maybe the main issue was not the length only.
Haven't I heard many times that Mark himself didn't quite want to make the OES record, that this last opus was a contract thing with Philips? Chris mentioned in one of his posts above that Mark did the tour for Alan, John and Guy, so we can assume that the story was more or less the same with making the record.
Also, wasn't it short after the OES tour that Mark divorced from I can't remember who? -- sorry I'm not much into personal matters -- but if MK had marital issues at the time, it certainly didn't help leaving the house for two years lol.
And the schedule, yes… considering the fact they had already done a huge tour 5 years before, maybe they didn't quite feel like doing it again. Pretty certain when you watch videos from the last part of the tour that none of them seemed to have much fun, understandably. ;D
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Alan Clark mentions on his website about how he reluctantly left Clapton’s band (which he described as the best he’s ever been in) to go back to DS and make the OES album. I can only imagine that it was a contractual thing. He also called the OES tour ‘soul-less’ (although that wording has since changed).
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OES wasn't contractual. That was the live at the bbc release a few years later.
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Reading Chris' comments, I'm reminded of some of Tommy Mandel's remarks. He even had a chapter (in an unpublished memoir) called Herr K. A not-so-unsubtle way of comparing Mark with Der Führer ... And Mandel's stint was back in 82/83? Not so sure the BiA tour was a joyride either.
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I've worked with quite a few big stars and I have no doubt Mark would have told Jeff what to play and told him if he wasn't happy about something.
I have never discussed it with anyone, but John says in interviews he had lunch with Mark one day and Mark out of the blue suggested they make the OES album.
I would not be surprised if that was true.
The BIA tour was very happy. It was the point at which DS really became a huge arena rock act. The album was selling big as were the singles - Walk Of Life and Money For Nothing.
OES was not as successful.
The material on OES shows Mark's transition to the smaller scale Nashville approach. But the tour was yet another huge stadium extravaganza. I never thought Mark felt comfortable playing Money. In the 5 years since BIA he'd moved on.
The OES tour was going to be a massive pay check for the main guys. The potential money and adulation can suck you in. But the reality is hard work. The tour was gruelling and relentless.
John seemed to be loving it, but Mark had a dark cloud over him most days from my perspective.
There was no party after the final show. We got on a plane from Zaragoza to Barcelona and as far as I remember most of us just went to bed.
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Thanks for the insight Chris, most appreciated.
One more question - did you steal MK’s sausages?
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Hello Chris. :wave
Many thanks for your "first hand" information on beeing in the band, and on some tour-information on the subject of OES-Worldtour.
We, as music-lovers, collectors and concert-visitors, see and feel the live-spirit on the shows, but i guess, not many people can imagine the hard background-work, the time-schedules, stage-work, and so on. So it is really thrilling, to hear some background-information from the hand of a band-member. Many thank´s for that.
Dear Chris, what do you think about the positive experiences during that huge tour, are there some, on your personal view ?? Were you, and the other bandmembers, clearly involved in the tour-organization-processes, like the selection of cities, countries, suitable venues indoor or outdoor. ?? What do you think, according to your experience as a bandmember, why does Dire Straits not played in Japan during OES-Worldtour ??
:think
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Or in Poland? :think
There were plans
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"I’ll put it on the list. I don’t actually think i ‘nailed’ it. I think I understand better how it should be played now"
As per the above quote from earlier in the discussion.
I already admitted it should have been played differently, but that option was never really given to me.
On the McCartney tour I was valued and nurtured. I was allowed to basically play how I wanted, and I did play loud rock most of the show, but sometimes very light on songs like The Long And Winding Road
On the OES tour Mark basically told everyone what to play, except maybe Paul Franklin who he greatly admired.
Hello Chris I just wanted to say Hi, I absolutely adored your drumming. My favourite part from On the Night is the second verse of Romeo and Juliet heading into the chorus. Absolutely thrilled every time.
Also, do you have any funny anecdotes to share from the tour?
Anyways cheers you're a legend
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"I’ll put it on the list. I don’t actually think i ‘nailed’ it. I think I understand better how it should be played now"
As per the above quote from earlier in the discussion.
I already admitted it should have been played differently, but that option was never really given to me.
On the McCartney tour I was valued and nurtured. I was allowed to basically play how I wanted, and I did play loud rock most of the show, but sometimes very light on songs like The Long And Winding Road
On the OES tour Mark basically told everyone what to play, except maybe Paul Franklin who he greatly admired.
Hello Chris! I´ts really a honour for me talk with you. Im a big fan of you and Dire Straits.
I´m a 20 years old drummer and i want to know if you can, tell me about the gear and brands you used during the OES Tour (what types of drum heads, cymbals, brand of drum, pedals, sticks, etc). During the live concerts you appears with small headphones, what you´re listening in there?
PD: What you think about Terry Williams and Pick Withers drumming?
I send you greetings from Argentina, and sorry for my bad english.
With love, Enzo.
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Yes, what I have read here from the person claiming to be Chris W. does not seem unrealistic to me, unfortunately... I didn't see any insult, just a fair account of how MK could behave when unhappy in his personal life. The sentence that hurt me most was the one about not having a single word nor gesture of appreciation towards CW in 350 shows for the hard work done. This really hurts, and is not the MK we have been knowing in his solo career. I guess MK himself would now acknowledged that he has behaved like an ass back in 1992...
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As much as I would like to disbelieve Chris W's post, I'm pretty sure that it is true. MK did not seem very happy on the OES tour, and who could blame him - he was going through a divorce at that time, but that doesn't excuse him treating someone badly!
We are 30 years on now and Mark eventually found happiness with Kitty. He is a different person these days and tomorrow is his 25th wedding anniversary. So I hope we can move on now and not dwell on something that happened so long ago.
Let's wish him a happy 25th wedding anniversary! :)
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As much as I would like to disbelieve Chris W's post, I'm pretty sure that it is true. MK did not seem very happy on the OES tour, and who could blame him - he was going through a divorce at that time, but that doesn't excuse him treating someone badly!
We are 30 years on now and Mark eventually found happiness with Kitty. He is a different person these days and tomorrow is his 25th wedding anniversary. So I hope we can move on now and not dwell on something that happened so long ago.
Let's wish him a happy 25th wedding anniversary! :)
Good point, well made there Superval with regards their 25th wedding anniversary...
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By the way Chris, can I say that your drumming on World Shut Your Mouth is fantastic.
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Mark in Canada
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The advertising says it all.
(I took the shot).
Yes, I can't remember any time Mark smiled at me during the show, or had a good word to say about my performance.
On the flight to Barcelona after the final show he sat in silence. There was no end of tour party. Ed Bicknel is on record as saying it was the grimmest tour ayone involved had ever worked on.
My instagram account is:
chriswhittenmusic
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Without being nosey, was the tour at least worth doing financially, or could you have made more and been happier doing session work?
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The advertising says it all.
(I took the shot).
Yes, I can't remember any time Mark smiled at me during the show, or had a good word to say about my performance.
On the flight to Barcelona after the final show he sat in silence. There was no end of tour party. Ed Bicknel is on record as saying it was the grimmest tour ayone involved had ever worked on.
My instagram account is:
chriswhittenmusic
Can't believe that the leader of a band you are playing for doesn't says you a thing during a two years tour, how bad from MK... I'm sorry for you.
Did you had any relation of friendship with any of the musicians? It is a very long tour and many hotel rooms, travels around the world.
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The only way I could complete the tour was due to Chris White.
I don't intend to do a running commentary or post regularly.
It came up on my radar that someone has mischaracterised my podcast for Darko Audio. If anyone was insulted it was me - that I needed therapy my playing was so bad.
I haven't insulted Mark, I just tried to correct some of the guess work that arose out of the first post in the thread.
As I said earlier, I talk about it again in a more recent podcast:
https://www.drummersresource.com/chris-whitten-interview/
Obviously it would have to be a very dedicated scam if I got myself on two separate podcasts and said the same things I've posted here.
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Certainly he wanted proof of identity but with a little elegance and respect we can disagree... And again, with the times that run today on false identities and "infox "News, I don't find this out of place.
I don't have to prove anything, but just to reiterate, I didn't start the discussion. Someone else started it to repeat some negative things I said about my time in DS.
So if it isn't me, it would have to be an impostor in multiple podcasts as well.
I would urge you and others to check out the Drummers Resource podcast I linked to above.
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I think as long as the audience had no clue that the tour was "grumpy", everything is okay. I think the drama here is a bit exaggerated since you can't not have fun playing such good songs for so many people, it's impossible. I'm sure, should Mark be in a better place in his life and so many things would not keep falling on him at the same time, including the tour itself, the tour would be a much better experience. Personally, I loved my "On The Night" DVD and spent so many hours with it, it gave me one of the happiest musical memories, and that's just a DVD. Can't imagine visiting actual shows back then!
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I think as long as the audience had no clue that the tour was "grumpy", everything is okay. I think the drama here is a bit exaggerated since you can't not have fun playing such good songs for so many people, it's impossible. I'm sure, should Mark be in a better place in his life and so many things would not keep falling on him at the same time, including the tour itself, the tour would be a much better experience. Personally, I loved my "On The Night" DVD and spent so many hours with it, it gave me one of the happiest musical memories, and that's just a DVD. Can't imagine visiting actual shows back then!
I liked OTN too, but I liked Basel '92 much more and I played it over and over and never tired of watching! Sultans was one of my favourites at that time, but now I much prefer the 4-piece versions.
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I remember a great concert in Basel. June 28, 1992. Broadcast to many countries. Fantastic atmosphere.
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I enjoy listening and watching On The Night a lot, what happened between Mark and the band is their business, not mine, but it was a long time ago now, and Mark is a different person now, I am sure he was a different person when he started his solo career, he just needed a different focus I think, there a more people who have good things to say about him than negative, I am sure the likes of Chet Atkins, EmmyLou Harris, the 96's etc would have found him out by now, Guy would have jumped ship long ago, and John Illsley wouldn't still have Mark as a close friend if he was the type of person he was painted as being years ago, we all change over time, it's natural, I am sure we all have behaved a certain way when younger that we wouldn't do when older.
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"we all change over time, it's natural, I am sure we all have behaved a certain way when younger that we wouldn't do when older.
:thumbsup
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Yes, I can't remember any time Mark smiled at me during the show, or had a good word to say about my performance.
On the flight to Barcelona after the final show he sat in silence. There was no end of tour party.
I feel sorry that it happened this way between you (at least) and Mark.
The episode in the plane is just as sad. No party after such a big tour, whether you enjoyed it or not, is just incredible. No thankyous to the whole band either? No excuses for Mark but hell, I wouldn't have wanted to be in his head at the time.
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I enjoy listening and watching On The Night a lot, what happened between Mark and the band is their business, not mine, but it was a long time ago now, and Mark is a different person now, I am sure he was a different person when he started his solo career, he just needed a different focus I think, there a more people who have good things to say about him than negative, I am sure the likes of Chet Atkins, EmmyLou Harris, the 96's etc would have found him out by now, Guy would have jumped ship long ago, and John Illsley wouldn't still have Mark as a close friend if he was the type of person he was painted as being years ago, we all change over time, it's natural, I am sure we all have behaved a certain way when younger that we wouldn't do when older.
I wonder if Mark treated the rest of the band in the same way as he treated Chris - not speaking or smiling to them for two years - or was it just Chris? I find that very difficult to imagine, even though I know it wasn't a happy tour for MK or other band members. Also I wonder how did Chris get along with the rest of the band?
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Extremely Glad you are the real Chris, I started playing with the OES tour and for me the gods after MK from that tour
are Paul Franklin and You, that says it all
but frankly I am quite perplexed that you feel the need to tell the world after 30 years that MK treated you that way,
and repeated in several posts, why do you feel that need ?
it doesn't matter if the story is really true or not, it's interesting from a fan point of view like mine, but also very unprofessional from another point of view, so to me at the end it feels like an offense/insult to MK, if you feel differently we agree to disagree.
I'm sorry, but it's Chris history as a musician.
Many artists tells historyes from 30, 40, 50 years ago.
So, CW has the right to tell his experiences as a musician anytime he wants.
There's no need too much search to read/listen MK criticism about DK as a musician or the way that he treated Pick's wife after that he left the band. Or even he tells that the Jeff Beck's solo on Private Dancer is the second worst guitar solo ever. And i never read anyone saying that its unprofessional.
Many times, i've read from other forums, sites, blogs... enormous critics about hired DS/MK band members. Danny, McCusker, The Brass guys, Ianto....
Chris gave a glimpse to some fans what is to be a hired musician.
Sometimes its a Joy, manytimes not.
Chirs gave to us a perspective to how the market really is and it's nothing wrong with that.
From some years to now, i see that DS is backing to the lights again.
The tribute bands, books, album reissues... These things make that some band mambers tell his storyes and back to the scene. Playing with great bands its good to get new gigs and tours.
Same occurred with the Pensa Suhr history. Tottally bullsh8.
Jonh came to this forum and told the real story.
And John went to the GuitarWank podcast and told the very same history again.
So, MK and Rudy are both liers?
Or business men?
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Again.... I can't emphasise this enough.
*I didn't start this topic*
I posted the first time because people were guessing this and that about me, so I wanted to set a few things straight.
I have felt the same way about the tour since about the second week. It comes out now because I retired from drumming after the tour (that tells you something) and I haven't done any interviews since 1992. Recently podcasts have become a thing, so I've done a few. I was actually shocked when Pick did a bunch of podcasts in 2020 and mentioned the exact same issues I faced, 10 years before I experienced it.
Drums are always an easy area to vent on. Feel and tempo are subjective. A guitarist has to actually play a wrong chord or note to be criticised.
There were only a few of us new boys - Me, Phil, Danny and Paul Franklin.
Paul had played on the album and Mark admired him. From my point of view Phil was given a hard time.
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I'm sorry, but it's Chris history as a musician.
Many artists tells historyes from 30, 40, 50 years ago.
So, CW has the right to tell his experiences as a musician anytime he wants.
There's no need too much search to read/listen MK criticism about DK as a musician or the way that he treated Pick's wife after that he left the band. Or even he tells that the Jeff Beck's solo on Private Dancer is the second worst guitar solo ever. And i never read anyone saying that its unprofessional.
Chris gave a glimpse to some fans what is to be a hired musician.
Sometimes its a Joy, manytimes not.
Chirs gave to us a perspective to how the market really is and it's nothing wrong with that.
From some years to now, i see that DS is backing to the lights again.
The tribute bands, books, album reissues... These things make that some band mambers tell his storyes and back to the scene. Playing with great bands its good to get new gigs and tours.
Same occurred with the Pensa Suhr history. Tottally bullsh8.
Jonh came to this forum and told the real story.
And John went to the GuitarWank podcast and told the very same history again.
I'd tend to agree with this whole post.
It can't be all white or all black and we have to accept different stories, whether we like them or not.
We can debate, share opinions etc. always, in a very gentle manner…
Many times, i've read from other forums, sites, blogs... enormous critics about hired DS/MK band members. Danny, McCusker, The Brass guys, Ianto....
BUT whoever criticizes Danny here then I'll kick his a** :hmm ;D
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The Pensa/Suhr situation might be the fishiest story in Mark's entire biography. Without knowing the truth told from their side I honestly can't take seriously both Mr Pensa or Mark's obsession with his guitars. Every time I see Rudy I think about this controversy and how absolutely nothing has been done to avoid it.
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but also very unprofessional from another point of view, so to me at the end it feels like an offense/insult to MK, if you feel differently we agree to disagree.
When you have played with a major artist we can agree to disagree, in the meantime, you're a fan and telling my side of the situation is !!NOT!! insulting Mark.
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When you have played with a major artist we can agree to disagree, in the meantime, you're a fan and telling my side of the situation is !!NOT!! insulting Mark.
From my point of view, I read nothing insulting or disrespectful towards Mark in all your posts above. Just your testimony of a situation at a time.
Maybe John or Alan or Danny or even Phil etc. would post something different but it's precisely the point.
Plus, I think that it's a real chance that we, fans, can interact with a member of a band that we used to love, so Chris thank you for posting here, all anecdotes are welcome.
Once again we should feel lucky to chat about something that we love(d).
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When you have played with a major artist we can agree to disagree, in the meantime, you're a fan and telling my side of the situation is !!NOT!! insulting Mark.
Chris, thank you to come to this forum and tell us your experience with the Dire Straits.
Your work with Paul its a blast. Working with some great guys like Robbie, Gilmour (probally he recorde, far his guitars after the sessions), Trevor, David Foster and many other great musicians.
It must be a joy to record with these fellows.
Like some here, i am a musician (not a good one), but i worked with some local bands, record some sh*t... Manytimes the concerts was very stressfull. Some artists are a pain in the *ss, but that's life.
As a musician, we always try to play our best, pick up the money and, if the pros are above the cons, we keep the job (if it was still avaliable).
I'm not telling my story as a musician, far from this.
I'm telling that, in my case and many other musicians, there's no tour sponsor, barely has a contract, the transportations sucks... its a nightmare. A real dire straits. ;D
Reading your comments about the tour, i admire the professionalism of all crew. Expecially the musicians.
In my opiniom, the OES album and tour are purelly contractual.
Your glimpse about MK's mind shows me, even if his head was in Nashville, he made the tour and played a hell of guitar.
And you guys worked to bring a big concert and played a great amount of songs.
Two years tryng to find joy and friendship with the band members.
Even if the tour was unfriendly, you guys delivered a great product (live concerts, live album and video) that its admired from fans all across the globe.
You are not insulting anyone.
And, who gave up from the rest of the tour, that person was MK.
Because, if i'm not wrong, the plan was a 3 or 4 year tour.
He knew he was not well.
Sorry my poor english and thank you again to share that small part of your life with us.
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It's a shame John Illsley writes so little about DS's last tour. But I haven't read the entire book yet. Memories John should also be important to us.
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From my point of view, I read nothing insulting or disrespectful towards Mark in all your posts above. Just your testimony of a situation at a time.
Describing MK like a robot who literally "never smiles at you, not even once the whole 350 shows tour" who is "miserable and borderline angry the whole time" "who never had a good word to say the whole tour" is not disrespectful ? man
For me at least, it's not insulting. Apparently it's just how Chris felt, none of us were there to tell how things exactly happened so I won't speak for him. Plus, as I pointed out, maybe other band members would tell different stories etc. so why not accepting Chris' words as they are? Everyone's perfectly entitled to agree or to disagree. Personally I'm just quite happy to have an insight on the Dire Straits history.
Obviously many stories tend to confirm that the OES tour was not quite a happy tour but… one more time we were not there!
And we are fans, so our opinion are most of the time biased, to say the least. :lol
Whether MK is an ogre at work or not, well……… I respect him as an artist and I'm glad that he and his musicians -- all of them -- brought some good music to us for more than 40 years.
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I have a feeling this thread is a wasted opportunity to have a proper and constructive chat with someone we have all admired at some point. I'm talking about Chris! Yes, all the guys in the On the night video were heros for me at some point, I was 14 when I discovered it and back then I thought people in a band were friends.
I've grown up, thanks whoever, and now I know better, but Chris W. can say whatever he has to say, I believe him, I like his sincerity and the courage he is showing to be posting here. He is not my favourite of drummers to have played with MK, I said so somewhere, but he is in my music pantheon all the same. I love MK's music but I am not blind to the fact he can be a tyrant of sort. There have been quite a few stories.
I take things with a grain of salt for sure but there's an underlying issues between MK and drummers. Pick left, Terry wasn't taken for On the night, Chris stopped drumming, Chad disapeared.
Come on we are not here to "defend" MK, he has no need for that.
Some people here are stuck with Chris' experience with MK while we could be chatting of how the tour was prepared, were there any songs that the band liked to play more? Song that were tricky or boring? How did the song evolved or not?
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Some people here are stuck with Chris' experience with MK while we could be chatting of how the tour was prepared, were there any songs that the band liked to play more? Song that were tricky or boring? How did the song evolved or not?
Tottally agreed.
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I have a feeling this thread is a wasted opportunity to have a proper and constructive chat with someone we have all admired at some point. I'm talking about Chris! Yes, all the guys in the On the night video were heros for me at some point, I was 14 when I discovered it and back then I thought people in a band were friends.
Exactly.
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Some people here are stuck with Chris' experience with MK while we could be chatting of how the tour was prepared, were there any songs that the band liked to play more? Song that were tricky or boring? How did the song evolved or not?
100% agree. In the end Chris will think that we are completely nuts so let's turn this thread into a much more positive discussion. A bunch of questions for you Chris, if you feel like it:
- best pal(s) on that tour?
- song that you liked best?
- most challenging song to play and why?
- best memory / anecdote?
- best venue?
Cheers!
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I have not seen the answer yet ;D :lol
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Yes, indeed. Please calm down, all. So, it is a very big honour to us all fans around the globe to have Chris here on the AMIT-Forum. :thumbsup
I´m very interested personally in various background-knowledge, as a fan and concert-visitor. What about the organisation of such a worldtour, or how does the studio and recording-work looked like. So, dear Chris, are you feeling free, to explain for example how a day in a sound-recording-studio was organized with all other musicians, the engineers and so on ? That will be very interesting for me to know.
As a concert-visitor and fan, i shurely can imagine, how precise the technical-staff had to work, incl. the truck and busdrivers, the management-office, the different organisation-processes and so on.
What are your experiences with that ? :)
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I got up this morning, I had a good coffee while listening to "Donkey Town", a very beautiful piece, very melodious, a very beautiful voice from Mark, simply the sound of the guitar and the harmonious voice of Emmilou Harris in the background. And there... I said to myself "but that's the real talent of MK", to write a beautiful melodious song.
...And there was no drums.
I started the day in a good mood.
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all i wanted to know was how he got here in the first place......will never know now....
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I am very happy that someone like Chris W is here on this forum. Hope he comes back sometimes… :thumbsup
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Lolz, yes, how do we know it's the real Chris Whitten on Instagram?!
He upload a lot of videos of him playing, personal pictures, tells about his career, his recordings... looks like him. ;)
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all i wanted to know was how he got here in the first place......will never know now....
why not? he usually answers messages on his instagram...
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It's actually an embarrassment that an actual member of DS comes on to our forum and it descends into this complete shit show, what a disappointment.
Exactly thought the same.
I felt very happy when Chris appeared here and gave some insight.
And I liked his drumming on the OES Tour.
Especially on Elvis and Sultans. He had this drive...
Thanks Chris for showing up on AMIT
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I got up this morning, I had a good coffee while listening to "Donkey Town", a very beautiful piece, very melodious, a very beautiful voice from Mark, simply the sound of the guitar and the harmonious voice of Emmilou Harris in the background. And there... I said to myself "but that's the real talent of MK", to write a beautiful melodious song.
...And there was no drums.
I like this song much. It was played once or twice at the very beginning of the MK-EH tour but was quickly dropped from the set, sadly.
A bit of drums by Sir Danny though. ;D
Aah the 2006 tour. Good times long gone.
https://youtu.be/iarg12NKcz8
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Saw it in Hamburg luckily.
In Rotterdam it was dropped already
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I got up this morning, I had a good coffee while listening to "Donkey Town", a very beautiful piece, very melodious, a very beautiful voice from Mark, simply the sound of the guitar and the harmonious voice of Emmilou Harris in the background. And there... I said to myself "but that's the real talent of MK", to write a beautiful melodious song.
...And there was no drums.
I like this song much. It was played once or twice at the very beginning of the MK-EH tour but was quickly dropped from the set, sadly.
A bit of drums by Sir Danny though. ;D
Aah the 2006 tour. Good times long gone.
https://youtu.be/iarg12NKcz8
Did we get it in Dublin?
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I got up this morning, I had a good coffee while listening to "Donkey Town", a very beautiful piece, very melodious, a very beautiful voice from Mark, simply the sound of the guitar and the harmonious voice of Emmilou Harris in the background. And there... I said to myself "but that's the real talent of MK", to write a beautiful melodious song.
...And there was no drums.
I started the day in a good mood.
Thank you SamGolden, I've re-listened to this song and now I feel depressed. ;D ;D
Not because of the song which is great, but because I loved this MK period so much… and now it's gone for good. :'(
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I like this song much. It was played once or twice at the very beginning of the MK-EH tour but was quickly dropped from the set, sadly.
A bit of drums by Sir Danny though. ;D
Aah the 2006 tour. Good times long gone.
Did we get it in Dublin?
Unfortunately not :(
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Back to topic, either I'm such a noob of a musician or doesn't care about things, but I see absolutely NO PROBLEM in the way Sultans was played in 1992 drums-wise. Just got here after watching Basel 1992 video and it sounds amazing, on par with all other songs. I know a lot of people apparently hate this drumming, but I'm like — what's all the fuss is all about? If nobody told me, I would never even think about it. Some people can even hear drum heads being changed on that tour, please give me your ears...
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:thumbsup
Yes. I have the same feelings. These are details that are beyond me. For me, every street tour was fantastic and very important.
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I got up this morning, I had a good coffee while listening to "Donkey Town", a very beautiful piece, very melodious, a very beautiful voice from Mark, simply the sound of the guitar and the harmonious voice of Emmilou Harris in the background. And there... I said to myself "but that's the real talent of MK", to write a beautiful melodious song.
...And there was no drums.
I like this song much. It was played once or twice at the very beginning of the MK-EH tour but was quickly dropped from the set, sadly.
A bit of drums by Sir Danny though. ;D
Aah the 2006 tour. Good times long gone.
https://youtu.be/iarg12NKcz8
was there, brilliant show.
on another note. any new post not discussing Chris Whitten in a normal way will be deleted and the thread locked. focus on the music, not on name calling and being butthurt because someone else does not agree with you. grow up
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Back to topic, either I'm such a noob of a musician or doesn't care about things, but I see absolutely NO PROBLEM in the way Sultans was played in 1992 drums-wise. Just got here after watching Basel 1992 video and it sounds amazing, on par with all other songs. I know a lot of people apparently hate this drumming, but I'm like — what's all the fuss is all about? If nobody told me, I would never even think about it. Some people can even hear drum heads being changed on that tour, please give me your ears...
Hi Pavel, nice to meet you! I´m drummer and i come from Argentina (so sorry for my more or less english)
I tell you my humble and subjective opinion. I don't hate the Chris drumming on SOS during the OES Tour, but i prefer by far the sound on the BIA Tour with Terry. I prefer the 85 period because the sounds of the drums, i think that matches very well, the drumming and the fills that Terry makes. I ever thought that the drums in the OES Tour sounded skinny and inconsistent (Chris tuned the drums a higher pitch than Terry).
I wait for yout answer to continue the discussion..
PD: You have a great YT Channel!
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Back to topic, either I'm such a noob of a musician or doesn't care about things, but I see absolutely NO PROBLEM in the way Sultans was played in 1992 drums-wise. Just got here after watching Basel 1992 video and it sounds amazing, on par with all other songs. I know a lot of people apparently hate this drumming, but I'm like — what's all the fuss is all about? If nobody told me, I would never even think about it. Some people can even hear drum heads being changed on that tour, please give me your ears...
Hi Pavel, nice to meet you! I´m drummer and i come from Argentina (so sorry for my more or less english)
I tell you my humble and subjective opinion. I don't hate the Chris drumming on SOS during the OES Tour, but i prefer by far the sound on the BIA Tour with Terry. I prefer the 85 period because the sounds of the drums, i think that matches very well, the drumming and the fills that Terry makes. I ever thought that the drums in the OES Tour sounded skinny and inconsistent (Chris tuned the drums a higher pitch than Terry).
I wait for yout answer to continue the discussion..
PD: You have a great YT Channel!
Thank you so much! And hi from Russia, my English is not perfect either, haha! Being a drummer sure helps to hear the difference, and I think drummers tend to comment on OES tour drumming a lot. So it really comes down to preference and style, right?
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Back to topic, either I'm such a noob of a musician or doesn't care about things, but I see absolutely NO PROBLEM in the way Sultans was played in 1992 drums-wise. Just got here after watching Basel 1992 video and it sounds amazing, on par with all other songs. I know a lot of people apparently hate this drumming, but I'm like — what's all the fuss is all about? If nobody told me, I would never even think about it. Some people can even hear drum heads being changed on that tour, please give me your ears...
You know that MK actually said that Chris was the first drummer who was not butchering Sultans and I think "butcher" is the word he used. I'll have to find where I read that. That says something about how he thought former drummers played the song.
If someone has a memory of that quotation...
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Back to topic, either I'm such a noob of a musician or doesn't care about things, but I see absolutely NO PROBLEM in the way Sultans was played in 1992 drums-wise. Just got here after watching Basel 1992 video and it sounds amazing, on par with all other songs. I know a lot of people apparently hate this drumming, but I'm like — what's all the fuss is all about? If nobody told me, I would never even think about it. Some people can even hear drum heads being changed on that tour, please give me your ears...
Hi Pavel, nice to meet you! I´m drummer and i come from Argentina (so sorry for my more or less english)
I tell you my humble and subjective opinion. I don't hate the Chris drumming on SOS during the OES Tour, but i prefer by far the sound on the BIA Tour with Terry. I prefer the 85 period because the sounds of the drums, i think that matches very well, the drumming and the fills that Terry makes. I ever thought that the drums in the OES Tour sounded skinny and inconsistent (Chris tuned the drums a higher pitch than Terry).
I wait for yout answer to continue the discussion..
PD: You have a great YT Channel!
Thank you so much! And hi from Russia, my English is not perfect either, haha! Being a drummer sure helps to hear the difference, and I think drummers tend to comment on OES tour drumming a lot. So it really comes down to preference and style, right?
Exactly! It´s full a subjective thing.. honestly i don't believe that any can say that Chris it´s a bad drummer, because he worked with world class artist. Sometimes it´s all about styles and "sounds colours", in this case talking about drums. I like more much Terry (i think that Alchemy without Terry, it wasn't Alchemy), but both Chris and Pick are awesome drummers!
Cheers my friend, it´s a pleasure discuse with many DS nerds like me haha
Greetings from Buenos Aires, Enzo.
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Back to topic, either I'm such a noob of a musician or doesn't care about things, but I see absolutely NO PROBLEM in the way Sultans was played in 1992 drums-wise. Just got here after watching Basel 1992 video and it sounds amazing, on par with all other songs. I know a lot of people apparently hate this drumming, but I'm like — what's all the fuss is all about? If nobody told me, I would never even think about it. Some people can even hear drum heads being changed on that tour, please give me your ears...
You know that MK actually said that Chris was the first drummer who was not butchering Sultans and I think "butcher" is the word he used. I'll have to find where I read that. That says something about how he thought former drummers played the song.
If someone has a memory of that quotation...
Wow, that's a great quote. I might be biased because On The Night DVD came into my life when I was a kid learning how to play the guitar, but I absolutely loved everything on this DVD including drumming by Chris. I even played some air drums if you know what I mean, I even like the way he looked behind the drumkit. He had this extremely "professional" look, I can't explain it. So if anything, his drumming was a highlight for me, actually.
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To my opinion every DS-drummer has his own special role and acceptance in the music-history of Dire Straits. I love all of them, and i accept and respect all of them.
Every drummer is a class of his own, and that made them special to me, as professional musicians on the one hand, and as individual characters on the other hand.
Remarkable is the really smooth more jazzy-flavoured drumming by Pick on the early tracks. Than the more powerful rock-driven drumming by Terry, followed up by Chris Whittens very adäquate drumming.
But i also don´t forget Chad or Ianto. Every single musician played or is still playing an important role in the whole DS and MK-cosmos, and that is all i have to say in that case. :think
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I do love Chad's drumming too. His drumming his great. Especially seeing his hi-hat seemingly moving on its own in the Cannibals intro while he was drumming away in the tom toms on a different rhythm had an powerful effect on me. I rate his overall drumming the highest among MK's drummers
As for Chris, I don't know if the relation he had with Mark shows in the On the night video but I noticed his professional look and that was one thing I found slightly off but that was after a while.
The only thing bothering me in Sultans was the tempo: way too fast. And it's the only song where I had a feeling MK was playing too many notes and it lacked Alchemy's energy and feeling. (I did discover Sultans 92' version much later in a Basel bootleg)
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better with a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD4LWIy675Y
and what a version that is!
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Chad is a great drummer. Seems fairly clear Chris was hamstrung by being told what to do.
For what it’s worth though the OES album and tour was what made me fall in love with DS, and music as a whole actually. Basel 92 was a big thing, but even at the age of 14 I could tell On the Night was crap.
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Chad is a great drummer. Seems fairly clear Chris was hamstrung by being told what to do.
Totally. It's becoming increasingly clear that Mark has been a total control freak, and the fact that he was feeling miserable at the time, for professional and private reasons, certainly didn't help. So in light of that, Chris' hard-hitting style, bright sound, and the lack of dynamics are ultimately Mark's responsibility. If he hadn't approved that way of playing, I'm sure Chris would have approached things differently.
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Hello
I simply ask a question: is it "easier" for a drummer like Chad Cromwell or Pick Withers, Terry Willians or even DC... in concert knowing that he participated in the album and therefore to know the requirements of MK OR like Chris Whitten to land on the tour thus resuming songs created by other drummers? And this by forgetting the tastes of each for such or such drummer... PickW (albums), TerryW (albums, soundtracks), Chad (albums),...
I ask the question and I don't have the answer, but can it play?
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I do love Chad's drumming too. His drumming his great. Especially seeing his hi-hat seemingly moving on its own in the Cannibals intro while he was drumming away in the tom toms on a different rhythm had an powerful effect on me. I rate his overall drumming the highest among MK's drummers
Chad was cool in 1996 but in 2001 I found his playing just OK, at best.
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You know that MK actually said that Chris was the first drummer who was not butchering Sultans and I think "butcher" is the word he used. I'll have to find where I read that. That says something about how he thought former drummers played the song.
If someone has a memory of that quotation...
I perfectly remember this, you're right. Where? I couldn't possibly say, it's probably taken from an interview in 1991 or early 1992, I'd say. Later, Mark was just too bored to talk in interviews. ;D
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Hello
I simply ask a question: is it "easier" for a drummer like Chad Cromwell or Pick Withers, Terry Willians or even DC... in concert knowing that he participated in the album and therefore to know the requirements of MK OR like Chris Whitten to land on the tour thus resuming songs created by other drummers? And this by forgetting the tastes of each for such or such drummer... PickW (albums), TerryW (albums, soundtracks), Chad (albums),...
I ask the question and I don't have the answer, but can it play?
It would be a question for Chris or for any professional drummer but, as I see things, it doesn't really matter whether a musician has actually played or not on a record prior playing the songs live. First because recording in a studio is a complete different process than playing live. Beside this, each venue is different. Then, because a pro musician should able to take over any other fella, of course with his / her own style, as good as it gets.
It happened with MK so many times. For instance, Sultans was recorded by Pick and then played live by himself, Terry, Chris, Chad, Danny and Ian. Speedway at Nazareth was recorded by Guy and Jim and was played live by themselves, Geraint and Matt too etc.
The best example of a musician having to replace one another is of course Danny who had to take over Chad on an extreme short notice in 2005. How Danny coped with it who knows ;) … ? but I bet that Mark sent Danny a recording of the show when he -- Danny -- may have played over it until late at night to learn all songs and be ready on D. Day. A sign of greatness.
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To my opinion every DS-drummer has his own special role and acceptance in the music-history of Dire Straits. I love all of them, and i accept and respect all of them.
Every drummer is a class of his own, and that made them special to me, as professional musicians on the one hand, and as individual characters on the other hand.
Remarkable is the really smooth more jazzy-flavoured drumming by Pick on the early tracks. Than the more powerful rock-driven drumming by Terry, followed up by Chris Whittens very adäquate drumming.
But i also don´t forget Chad or Ianto. Every single musician played or is still playing an important role in the whole DS and MK-cosmos, and that is all i have to say in that case. :think
Absolutely, I see it the same. :clap Each musician brings their own unique flavor to a band and whether you like their contribution or not is largely a matter of your own taste. I do appreciate every single one of them.
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To my opinion every DS-drummer has his own special role and acceptance in the music-history of Dire Straits. I love all of them, and i accept and respect all of them.
Every drummer is a class of his own, and that made them special to me, as professional musicians on the one hand, and as individual characters on the other hand.
Remarkable is the really smooth more jazzy-flavoured drumming by Pick on the early tracks. Than the more powerful rock-driven drumming by Terry, followed up by Chris Whittens very adäquate drumming.
But i also don´t forget Chad or Ianto. Every single musician played or is still playing an important role in the whole DS and MK-cosmos, and that is all i have to say in that case. :think
Absolutely, I see it the same. :clap Each musician brings their own unique flavor to a band and whether you like their contribution or not is largely a matter of your own taste. I do appreciate every single one of them.
Yes, great players, whatever their style, bring something personnal to a song. As for guitar players, you can't mistake one drummer for another, they make the same song sound different.
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Whitten is the blandest pro drummer I’ve ever come across. Sounds like a bored robot, not only with DS but whenever and whatever he plays. It’s beyond me why Mark picked him.
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Whitten is the blandest pro drummer I’ve ever come across. Sounds like a bored robot, not only with DS but whenever and whatever he plays. It’s beyond me why Mark picked him.
You’re saying this knowing full well that Chris might well read these words?!?
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Whitten is the blandest pro drummer I’ve ever come across. Sounds like a bored robot, not only with DS but whenever and whatever he plays. It’s beyond me why Mark picked him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBkSsJDXs5I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UJbz-pp6GQ
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Whitten is the blandest pro drummer I’ve ever come across. Sounds like a bored robot, not only with DS but whenever and whatever he plays. It’s beyond me why Mark picked him.
You’re saying this knowing full well that Chris might well read these words?!?
I think once you'vr been hired by PAUL FUCKING MCCARTNEY you're not going to care what some random on the internet thinks ;D
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Whitten is the blandest pro drummer I’ve ever come across. Sounds like a bored robot, not only with DS but whenever and whatever he plays. It’s beyond me why Mark picked him.
You’re saying this knowing full well that Chris might well read these words?!?
I think once you'vr been hired by PAUL FUCKING MCCARTNEY you're not going to care what some random on the internet thinks ;D
Yeah, I never got this kind of critique. I said earlier that I hear absolutely nothing wrong with drums on the whole On Every Street tour and recordings. Bland? But what is bland exactly? By the way, when I was young and stupid (now I only got older, unfortunately) I thought Danny Cummings was bland and boring. Until I realised that he's probably the drummer who served Mark's songs the most in history. I cried when he got replaced! And still cry about it.
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Well, first of all, I don’t give a flying s**t if Chris sees it, it’s my opinion and once you become a pro level musician you know people are gonna give their opinion about your playing. Having said that, I agree with Dusty, he won’t care - and shouldn’t, of course.
To my Russian friend, it’s a matter of taste. No point in showing me these vids or throwing the Paul McCartney card at me. There’s not right or wrong when it comes to opinions, you see.
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Well, first of all, I don’t give a flying s**t if Chris sees it, it’s my opinion and once you become a pro level musician you know people are gonna give their opinion about your playing. Having said that, I agree with Dusty, he won’t care - and shouldn’t, of course.
To my Russian friend, it’s a matter of taste. No point in showing me these vids or throwing the Paul McCartney card at me. There’s not right or wrong when it comes to opinions, you see.
I think Dusty can get offended by you calling him a Russian friend :lol
We'll take your opinion. Drumming is its own world, I think if one doesn't know anything about it, he can't judge it. I don't know anythyng about it. I always admired drums though. I like that this instrument is completely, 100% separated from harmony, you can tune drums of course, but whatever. So it's all this bare, primeval thing, probably the simplest and the most common musical instrument after the voice. And that's the beauty of it!
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Well, first of all, I don’t give a flying s**t if Chris sees it, it’s my opinion and once you become a pro level musician you know people are gonna give their opinion about your playing. Having said that, I agree with Dusty, he won’t care - and shouldn’t, of course.
To my Russian friend, it’s a matter of taste. No point in showing me these vids or throwing the Paul McCartney card at me. There’s not right or wrong when it comes to opinions, you see.
I think Dusty can get offended by you calling him a Russian friend :lol
We'll take your opinion. Drumming is its own world, I think if one doesn't know anything about it, he can't judge it. I don't know anythyng about it. I always admired drums though. I like that this instrument is completely, 100% separated from harmony, you can tune drums of course, but whatever. So it's all this bare, primeval thing, probably the simplest and the most common musical instrument after the voice. And that's the beauty of it!
I don’t think you need to be a drummer in order to be entitled to like or dislike what you hear… and just for the record, I’m comparing him to other world class drummers.
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I think the Russians and Scots have lots in common, we both live in sub zero temperatures and consume too much alcohol. :)
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I think the Russians and Scots have lots in common, we both live in sub zero temperatures and consume too much alcohol. :)
Mark being Scottish may be the tiebreaker
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Me, as an amateur drummer myself, I value every drummer playing from my point of view as a player too, but that's about tastes anyway, as any guitar player would like other guitar players and would value aspects of how to play, from their point of view as guitar player.
My favorite drummers are usually those who serve the song and you don't notice them unless the song demands it. Let's say Jeff Porcaro is my top.
Also, listen to Shangri-la. That's the best drumming on a MK record ever.
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A drummer that I really appreciate the rhythm and finesse, but also because he played a lot with Ry Cooder but also Dylan, the Traveling Wildburys is Jim Keltner. Which I know has nothing to do with MK here on the subject...
Also, Keltner's favorite drummer is Jeff Porcaro... he talks about him in this video here... from 0'53 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy-3PXmbVms
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A drummer that I really appreciate the rhythm and finesse, but also because he played a lot with Ry Cooder but also Dylan, the Traveling Wildburys is Jim Keltner. Which I know has nothing to do with MK here on the subject...
Also, Keltner's favorite drummer is Jeff Porcaro... he talks about him in this video here... from 0'53 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy-3PXmbVms
Also Porcaro had a lot of admiration for Keltner!
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Jim Keltner is fantastic.
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Love Keltner
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Also, listen to Shangri-la. That's the best drumming on a MK record ever.
Absolutely! Chad is a great drummer, very sensitive and precise (can't expain it, but this is what I feel when I hear him play). I love his work a lot.
It's a shame Mark and Chad never got back together after he left the band.
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A drummer that I really appreciate the rhythm and finesse, but also because he played a lot with Ry Cooder but also Dylan, the Traveling Wildburys is Jim Keltner. Which I know has nothing to do with MK here on the subject...
Also, Keltner's favorite drummer is Jeff Porcaro... he talks about him in this video here... from 0'53 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy-3PXmbVms
Keltner is the GOAT!
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I always was a fan of Steve Gadd who played drums for Paul Simon, Eric Clapton, James Taylor, Joe Cocker and a whole lot more……. Would love to hear him in MK’s band……
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Yes Gadd is great too - inventor of the 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover part!
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Never liked Steve Gadd style. He's good, but his way of playing is not my thing. Same goes with Steve Ferrone. He's good, but don't like his playing at all.
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A drummer that I really appreciate the rhythm and finesse, but also because he played a lot with Ry Cooder but also Dylan, the Traveling Wildburys is Jim Keltner. Which I know has nothing to do with MK here on the subject...
Also, Keltner's favorite drummer is Jeff Porcaro... he talks about him in this video here... from 0'53 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy-3PXmbVms
Keltner is the GOAT!
Thank you for this intelligent and relevant reflection, very argued.
I went to an animal site... and it says "The goat is a very intelligent, naturally curious animal.
She has a lively mind, she is full of vitality, she communicates a lot, loves to play..."
With that... this is my last post here. I leave this forum definitively and with pleasure with regard to the level of tolerance and intelligent sharing.
Just a thought to you PensaGosht, take good care of yourself and to you Pavel that I continue to follow and listen to your music so melodious and pleasant.
To you NicoMK, see you soon in a very good restaurant accompanied by a very good wine.
I don't feel like I belong here, surely I'm a very bad fan who doesn't understand anything about MK's music. I'm going to go and listen to it under other skies and peacefully.
For the rest, here is what awaits me "Laughs and Jokes and Drinks and Smokes".... :wave
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A drummer that I really appreciate the rhythm and finesse, but also because he played a lot with Ry Cooder but also Dylan, the Traveling Wildburys is Jim Keltner. Which I know has nothing to do with MK here on the subject...
Also, Keltner's favorite drummer is Jeff Porcaro... he talks about him in this video here... from 0'53 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy-3PXmbVms
Keltner is the GOAT!
Thank you for this intelligent and relevant reflection, very argued.
I went to an animal site... and it says "The goat is a very intelligent, naturally curious animal.
She has a lively mind, she is full of vitality, she communicates a lot, loves to play..."
With that... this is my last post here. I leave this forum definitively and with pleasure with regard to the level of tolerance and intelligent sharing.
Just a thought to you PensaGosht, take good care of yourself and to you Pavel that I continue to follow and listen to your music so melodious and pleasant.
To you NicoMK, see you soon in a very good restaurant accompanied by a very good wine.
I don't feel like I belong here, surely I'm a very bad fan who doesn't understand anything about MK's music. I'm going to go and listen to it under other skies and peacefully.
For the rest, here is what awaits me "Laughs and Jokes and Drinks and Smokes".... :wave
Huh ?
GOAT is an acronym for Greatest Of All Times. It is the best of the compliments, not the worst of insults.
Do you imagine our Pottel insulting drummers on the forum just like that ? Seriously ?
Take a deep breath :)
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wow, nice tribute by Jim Keltner....
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A drummer that I really appreciate the rhythm and finesse, but also because he played a lot with Ry Cooder but also Dylan, the Traveling Wildburys is Jim Keltner. Which I know has nothing to do with MK here on the subject...
Also, Keltner's favorite drummer is Jeff Porcaro... he talks about him in this video here... from 0'53 min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy-3PXmbVms
Keltner is the GOAT!
Thank you for this intelligent and relevant reflection, very argued.
I went to an animal site... and it says "The goat is a very intelligent, naturally curious animal.
She has a lively mind, she is full of vitality, she communicates a lot, loves to play..."
With that... this is my last post here. I leave this forum definitively and with pleasure with regard to the level of tolerance and intelligent sharing.
Just a thought to you PensaGosht, take good care of yourself and to you Pavel that I continue to follow and listen to your music so melodious and pleasant.
To you NicoMK, see you soon in a very good restaurant accompanied by a very good wine.
I don't feel like I belong here, surely I'm a very bad fan who doesn't understand anything about MK's music. I'm going to go and listen to it under other skies and peacefully.
For the rest, here is what awaits me "Laughs and Jokes and Drinks and Smokes".... :wave
sam, i meant "Greatest of all times" it is a standard (American english mostly i presume) saying to describe one of the best, or the best ...calm down pls...
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sam, i meant "Greatest of all times" it is a standard (American english mostly i presume) saying to describe one of the best, or the best ...calm down pls...
This is too funny! I wonder if the acronym BOAT was used, which means "Best Of All Time", could it offend some maritime lovers... :lol
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If you type "The Goat" into Google News you will get a whole load of headlines from mainstream news organisations using it in headlines so it must be relatively well known or else they wouldn't do it.
But it is a relatively new term and not everyone has heard of it.
Anyway, we can all agree on this forum that Knopfler is the GOAT :)
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sam, i meant "Greatest of all times" it is a standard (American english mostly i presume) saying to describe the best
Maybe it's the standard saying for kids who use the phone H24, not surely for 100% of the people or most of the people
possible. still, before i would say such definitive things as Sam did, i would maybe try and double check.
he has known me for ages, so i think i can claim the benefit of doubt.
i am still flabbergasted by the reaction. totally unnecesarry.
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If you type "The Goat" into Google News you will get a whole load of headlines from mainstream news organisations using it in headlines so it must be relatively well known or else they wouldn't do it.
But it is a relatively new term and not everyone has heard of it.
Anyway, we can all agree on this forum that Knopfler is the GOAT :)
most of us on here yes,...
https://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/saloon/3673290-where-does-mark-knopfler-rank-guitar-goat-list.html --> but not all agree....but oh screw them...
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The GOAT quarrel has become the highlight of the week to me. Reminded me of this tennis thread when a guy said Federer was the goat and a Nadal fan replied with the following question: bulls are stronger than goats, are you admitting Nadal is stronger than Federer?
For the record Rafa’s nickname is miura, which happens to be a bull breed… I laughed for hours.
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sam, i meant "Greatest of all times" it is a standard (American english mostly i presume) saying to describe the best
Maybe it's the standard saying for kids who use the phone H24, not surely for 100% of the people or most of the people
possible. still, before i would say such definitive things as Sam did, i would maybe try and double check.
he has known me for ages, so i think i can claim the benefit of doubt.
i am still flabbergasted by the reaction. totally unnecesarry.
I'm the only one or nobody on Earth even uses "goat" as an insult in English? We use it in Russia (meaning the animal, which this word represents, like "kozel" in Russian), but I never heard anybody insulting anyone with "goat" in English, that's not even a thing. So it must be something else, then it also written in capital letters, also a clue... Also, "the" goat. So yeah, Sam, I think you may find this situation hilarious and don't take it too seriously. A bit of research never harms.
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The GOAT quarrel has become the highlight of the week to me. Reminded me of this tennis thread when a guy said Federer was the goat and a Nadal fan replied with the following question: bulls are stronger than goats, are you admitting Nadal is stronger than Federer?
For the record Rafa’s nickname is miura, which happens to be a bull breed… I laughed for hours.
Man, this really reminds me of this saying in English, when instead of saying "yes" you say "Is the pope Catholic?", it's like a rhetorical question. And people who don't get it answer "I don't know". And this phrase is quite popular, also they use "does a bear shit in the woods?" and even combined with the first phrase, "does the Pope shit in the woods?". Gotta love English. Imagine how some people can interpret that!
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The GOAT quarrel has become the highlight of the week to me. Reminded me of this tennis thread when a guy said Federer was the goat and a Nadal fan replied with the following question: bulls are stronger than goats, are you admitting Nadal is stronger than Federer?
For the record Rafa’s nickname is miura, which happens to be a bull breed… I laughed for hours.
LOL
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The GOAT quarrel has become the highlight of the week to me. Reminded me of this tennis thread when a guy said Federer was the goat and a Nadal fan replied with the following question: bulls are stronger than goats, are you admitting Nadal is stronger than Federer?
For the record Rafa’s nickname is miura, which happens to be a bull breed… I laughed for hours.
Man, this really reminds me of this saying in English, when instead of saying "yes" you say "Is the pope Catholic?", it's like a rhetorical question. And people who don't get it answer "I don't know". And this phrase is quite popular, also they use "does a bear shit in the woods?" and even combined with the first phrase, "does the Pope shit in the woods?". Gotta love English. Imagine how some people can interpret that!
exactly. love that phrase too
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The GOAT quarrel has become the highlight of the week to me. Reminded me of this tennis thread when a guy said Federer was the goat and a Nadal fan replied with the following question: bulls are stronger than goats, are you admitting Nadal is stronger than Federer?
For the record Rafa’s nickname is miura, which happens to be a bull breed… I laughed for hours.
I'm Spanish and I never ever heard Nadal to be called Miura, lol
Never.
Ever.
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This has been a rough week around the forum!
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sam, i meant "Greatest of all times" it is a standard (American english mostly i presume) saying to describe the best
Maybe it's the standard saying for kids who use the phone H24, not surely for 100% of the people or most of the people
The term GOAT has been around for at least 30 years and is used regularly by millions of tennis fans when talking about, in particular, Roger Federe, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic.
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I never heard the term Goat, but I'm not in any other forums in internet, further than Spanish City, and we talk Spanish there.
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https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/09/07/tom-brady-goat-dictionary/
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Why can't people just say "greatest of all time" does it really take that long to say? also, it is clear for people who don't know about the Goat thing.
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Why can't people just say "greatest of all time" does it really take that long to say? also, it is clear for people who don't know about the Goat thing.
Just the same as any abbreviation I guess, although usually they don't cause such controversy!
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Why can't people just say "greatest of all time" does it really take that long to say? also, it is clear for people who don't know about the Goat thing.
Just the same as any abbreviation I guess, although usually they don't cause such controversy!
Americans love acronyms and acronymify everything... NASA, NASCAR, NATO, job titles, CEO, CFO, CAO, airports, technology, LAN, FTP, SMS, associations, all sorts of things, no wonder acronyms would get their way into emails. ASAP may be the most famous acronym in the world which is probably universally known and a word on its own by this point. My personal favourites are LMAO and GG (Good Game). I think the world is changing and these acronyms are in the wild for decades now, so people who don't get it, it's their problem really. They are living under a rock or something? It's like I recently saw Jeff Goldblum's video and he doesn't know what 5MP means in photography.
The problem sometimes arises when people acronymify song titles on this forum and sometimes you really need to switch on your inner Sherlock Holmes to figure out what it means. But some are already classics like PONO (Planet of New Orleans), SOS (Sultans of Swing), ATRR (All The Roadrunning), STP, RPD and so on.
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This thread is FUBAR. (military acronym from 1940s ...)
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Why can't people just say "greatest of all time" does it really take that long to say? also, it is clear for people who don't know about the Goat thing.
Just the same as any abbreviation I guess, although usually they don't cause such controversy!
Well, sometimes, people usually wask, why do you mean with SFFTC?
I tend to ignore those abbreviations as I'm not going to spend a second trying to get that meaning... abbreviations for album titles work very well, but for individual songs, considering the hugh number of DS and MK songs existing... It is difficult.
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When I look at some YouTube videos, I usually scroll down to the comments section and I often read about GOATs and also certain words/phrases commenting on music, such as "that solo was really sick" or "he really killed that solo". At first I thought that it was negative criticism, until it became obvious they were praising the solo/song. I think it all emanates from the US and eventually makes its way to the UK and Europe, etc.
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When I look at some YouTube videos, I usually scroll down to the comments section and I often read about GOATs and also certain words/phrases commenting on music, such as "that solo was really sick" or "he really killed that solo". At first I thought that it was negative criticism, until it became obvious they were praising the solo/song. I think it all emanates from the US and eventually makes its way to the UK and Europe, etc.
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/b652c100-3929-44a0-bba2-e27e1d2b9ee8
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When I look at some YouTube videos, I usually scroll down to the comments section and I often read about GOATs and also certain words/phrases commenting on music, such as "that solo was really sick" or "he really killed that solo". At first I thought that it was negative criticism, until it became obvious they were praising the solo/song. I think it all emanates from the US and eventually makes its way to the UK and Europe, etc.
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/b652c100-3929-44a0-bba2-e27e1d2b9ee8
:lol
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When I look at some YouTube videos, I usually scroll down to the comments section and I often read about GOATs and also certain words/phrases commenting on music, such as "that solo was really sick" or "he really killed that solo". At first I thought that it was negative criticism, until it became obvious they were praising the solo/song. I think it all emanates from the US and eventually makes its way to the UK and Europe, etc.
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/b652c100-3929-44a0-bba2-e27e1d2b9ee8
:lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsUXAEzaC3Q
:lol
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The GOAT quarrel has become the highlight of the week to me. Reminded me of this tennis thread when a guy said Federer was the goat and a Nadal fan replied with the following question: bulls are stronger than goats, are you admitting Nadal is stronger than Federer?
For the record Rafa’s nickname is miura, which happens to be a bull breed… I laughed for hours.
I'm Spanish and I never ever heard Nadal to be called Miura, lol
Never.
Ever.
Dude, even his Nike logo is a bull head lol
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I’ve known Rafa as el toro Miura or el toro de manacor since he was 17…
https://www.larazon.es/local/andalucia/miura-y-nadal-FB15360072/?outputType=amp
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I’ve known Rafa as el toro Miura or el toro de manacor since he was 17…
https://www.larazon.es/local/andalucia/miura-y-nadal-FB15360072/?outputType=amp
Maybe in Brazil you call him like that. Not in Spain, I can assure you that.
I listen to sports radio programs and tv shows frequently and I never ever heard him being called like that in Spain.
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In france, he's been called the Bull early on but not anymore I think or not as often.
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if we merge the original thread subject (drumming) and the goat acronym badly understood (in the animal meaning way), could we say in définitive that the ultimate greatest drummer of all time is Animal ? :lol :lol :lol
https://youtu.be/b_IpgKzy75E
https://youtu.be/3AZz9TSjZCM
https://youtu.be/WBOohuZlAiM
https://youtu.be/VJh9W3Gcpmo
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I’ve known Rafa as el toro Miura or el toro de manacor since he was 17…
https://www.larazon.es/local/andalucia/miura-y-nadal-FB15360072/?outputType=amp
Maybe in Brazil you call him like that. Not in Spain, I can assure you that.
I listen to sports radio programs and tv shows frequently and I never ever heard him being called like that in Spain.
It’s literally in his academy logo… https://www.rafanadalacademy.com/
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Hi, all. In reference to GOAT, being of a curious nature, I Goggled its origin. Here is what I found
In Sept. 1992, Lonnie Ali, Muhammad Ali’s wife, incorporated G.O.A.T. Inc. This company was used as an umbrella for all of the former boxer’s intellectual properties being used for commercial purposes.
According to Sokolowski, the first version Merriam-Webster found of its online use was in 1996 on an Orlando Magic forum referencing Penny Hardaway.
“The sentence is simply, ‘Penny is the GOAT (Greatest of All Time),'” said Sokolowski. “That’s the oldest quotation that we have of this word.”
In 2000, LL Cool J helped to popularize the word as a definition for greatest, when he released an album titled, “G.O.A.T. (Greatest of All Time).” He credited Ali for its origin in a 2016 interview with Rolling Stone.
The term does seem to have had a music connection for a while. I personally have not run into it until just the last month or two, although I believe it has been used a lot in reference to the various players of pro sports. Not being into sports, except figure skating and gymnastics, I haven't noticed its use. It certainly, in my opinion, fits Mark, although I know many other people can come up with others that they deem "THE BEST". Its all our personal interpretation.
On another tack, I like the logic that Animal is the perfect drummer! :lol
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I’ve known Rafa as el toro Miura or el toro de manacor since he was 17…
https://www.larazon.es/local/andalucia/miura-y-nadal-FB15360072/?outputType=amp
Maybe in Brazil you call him like that. Not in Spain, I can assure you that.
I listen to sports radio programs and tv shows frequently and I never ever heard him being called like that in Spain.
It’s literally in his academy logo… https://www.rafanadalacademy.com/
And even that, I never ever heard him being called like that in Spain.
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samgolden and i have spoken. all is cool. simple misunderstanding.
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samgolden and i have spoken. all is cool. simple misunderstanding.
You’re the GOAT of pacification 🙂
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samgolden and i have spoken. all is cool. simple misunderstanding.
You’re the GOAT of pacification 🙂
luckily not the Putin of pacification i would say!
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samgolden and i have spoken. all is cool. simple misunderstanding.
You’re the GOAT of pacification 🙂
luckily not the Putin of pacification i would say!
Nailed it! :lol