A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: jbaent on March 10, 2021, 12:37:30 PM
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Phil Palmer's book "Session man" is already available:
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
It might be of interest for some of you as in it he talks about his career as a session musicians, and one of those works he did was recording OES and playing with DS during his last tour.
Also if any of you is interested in his period with Clapton, George Michael, Tina Turner etc etc, that would be a great read. I purchased it already, I love to read about music from the musicians point of view.
This is the info he has on his site about the book:
“I found myself in yet another hotel room, exhausted and alone at 3 am…”
During Phil’s career he has experienced the explosive growth and decline of the industry, yet has managed to stay front and centre in a cut throat industry where you’re only as good as your last gig. From humble beginnings as the nephew of Ray & Dave ‘The Kinks’ Davies, this is Phil’s tale of how he grew to be one of the most in demand prolific guitar players in a career spanning 6 decades. This book details his journey throughout the heyday of music’s greatest period of expression and gives an honest behind the scenes reflection of what it was really like to grind a career out in the business.
This was an era where talent was still king, a time when authentic showmen and show women ruled the stage without the need for autotune and theatrical smoke and mirrors to distract audiences from their musical deficiencies. I felt part of the cutting edge and it was exciting, challenging and rewarding. But to be on the front line you needed to stay in the loop which meant working flat out, being visible, being available, being flexible and above all being able. I had just turned thirty six and by most standards of musical accomplishment, I was doing pretty well.
I had already played and recorded with some of the biggest household names of the time, featured on several worldwide chart hits and quite literally seen more than a few TV sets tossed from hotel balconies. With many years already under my belt, I thought I had experienced most of what the industry had to offer. However, I had no idea of the amazing adventures, experiences, and collaborations that were still to come in my life. These adventures would see me travel the globe with some of the biggest bands in the world, including Eric Clapton and Dire Straits.
They would see me playing to TV audiences of billions at high profile events and continue to the present day where I’m fortunate enough to still be collaborating with rock and pop legends.
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Just received the book and went directy to the DS chapter...
It totally worth buying. Totally. Just for the DS chapter, it´s like having someone inside telling you all those little things you always wanted to know but nobody tell you. If you are also a Clapton fan, it's gonna worth even more.
What a great purchase.
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
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Just received the book and went directy to the DS chapter...
It totally worth buying. Totally. Just for the DS chapter, it´s like having someone inside telling you all those little things you always wanted to know but nobody tell you. If you are also a Clapton fan, it's gonna worth even more.
What a great purchase.
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
some key examples ?
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Just received the book and went directy to the DS chapter...
It totally worth buying. Totally. Just for the DS chapter, it´s like having someone inside telling you all those little things you always wanted to know but nobody tell you. If you are also a Clapton fan, it's gonna worth even more.
What a great purchase.
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
some key examples ?
I thought the same :)
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Just received the book and went directy to the DS chapter...
It totally worth buying. Totally. Just for the DS chapter, it´s like having someone inside telling you all those little things you always wanted to know but nobody tell you. If you are also a Clapton fan, it's gonna worth even more.
What a great purchase.
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
some key examples ?
I thought the same :)
I think it contains the ultimate answer to the sausage debate.
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Just received the book and went directy to the DS chapter...
It totally worth buying. Totally. Just for the DS chapter, it´s like having someone inside telling you all those little things you always wanted to know but nobody tell you. If you are also a Clapton fan, it's gonna worth even more.
What a great purchase.
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
some key examples ?
I thought the same :)
I think it contains the ultimate answer to the sausage debate.
Was there ever a debate about it?!
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Just received the book and went directy to the DS chapter...
It totally worth buying. Totally. Just for the DS chapter, it´s like having someone inside telling you all those little things you always wanted to know but nobody tell you. If you are also a Clapton fan, it's gonna worth even more.
What a great purchase.
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
some key examples ?
I thought the same :)
I think it contains the ultimate answer to the sausage debate.
Pork or beef? :think
Links or lorne? :think
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Just received the book and went directy to the DS chapter...
It totally worth buying. Totally. Just for the DS chapter, it´s like having someone inside telling you all those little things you always wanted to know but nobody tell you. If you are also a Clapton fan, it's gonna worth even more.
What a great purchase.
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
some key examples ?
Too much little details to tell.
One hilarious story is during rehearsals MK had Danny Cummings trying for several hours all his shakers in order to play a small part in a song. In the end MK chooses one and told him to take ten beads out of it...
A lot of little stories like that. I insist. It totally worths for that little stories from the inside.
Of course the sausage story it's in the book.
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Some other little bits:
They called MK "grand fromage"
Danny, Alan and Guy were known as "the banana patrol" by the rest of the band
Many little stories, interesting and funny
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Just received the book and went directy to the DS chapter...
It totally worth buying. Totally. Just for the DS chapter, it´s like having someone inside telling you all those little things you always wanted to know but nobody tell you. If you are also a Clapton fan, it's gonna worth even more.
What a great purchase.
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
some key examples ?
Too much little details to tell.
One hilarious story is during rehearsals MK had Danny Cummings trying for several hours all his shakers in order to play a small part in a song. In the end MK chooses one and told him to take ten beads out of it...
A lot of little stories like that. I insist. It totally worths for that little stories from the inside.
Of course the sausage story it's in the book.
Reminds me of the Whiplash movie lol. Not quite my tempo, says Mark to Danny Cummings playing on the wrong shaker. I only wish there would be a ebook of this book, because I only read ebooks and audiobooks.
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Mk also had Phil trying guitars, amps etc playing the same piece of songs until he found the perfect combination lot of hours after...
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Just received the book and went directy to the DS chapter...
It totally worth buying. Totally. Just for the DS chapter, it´s like having someone inside telling you all those little things you always wanted to know but nobody tell you. If you are also a Clapton fan, it's gonna worth even more.
What a great purchase.
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
some key examples ?
Too much little details to tell.
One hilarious story is during rehearsals MK had Danny Cummings trying for several hours all his shakers in order to play a small part in a song. In the end MK chooses one and told him to take ten beads out of it...
A lot of little stories like that. I insist. It totally worths for that little stories from the inside.
Of course the sausage story it's in the book.
Reminds me of the Whiplash movie lol. Not quite my tempo, says Mark to Danny Cummings playing on the wrong shaker. I only wish there would be a ebook of this book, because I only read ebooks and audiobooks.
I just asked Phil in Facebook and told me that eventually there would be an ebook version.
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You (all) just had me convinced to buy it, but it is temporarily unavailable. I think I will wait for a paperback copy, ebooks is just not the same :)
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You (all) just had me convinced to buy it, but it is temporarily unavailable. I think I will wait for a paperback copy, ebooks is just not the same :)
It's available here
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
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You (all) just had me convinced to buy it, but it is temporarily unavailable. I think I will wait for a paperback copy, ebooks is just not the same :)
It's available here
https://philpalmer.com/session-man/
Thank you! :)
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"Gran fromage" LOL
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Mk also had Phil trying guitars, amps etc playing the same piece of songs until he found the perfect combination lot of hours after...
I wish I'd had Phil's problems :lol :lol :lol
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Mk also had Phil trying guitars, amps etc playing the same piece of songs until he found the perfect combination lot of hours after...
I wish I'd had Phil's problems :lol :lol :lol
Actually he says in the book that for him that wasn't a problem at all, as the one paying very expensively hours of studio time doing that was not him ;D
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I believe I’ve read elsewhere that this story is about the OES riff/outro. In my honest opinion this fiddling with settings while playing the riff over and over again for hours did really pay off. On the record it sounds so amazingly good, truly wonderful, out of this world. It just sounds so clear, clean-like (although it isn’t), yet so powerful and insanely tight. As a guitar player I can state the part itself is pretty easy to play, however to get that sound and accomplish this effect is extremely difficult, at least I can’t do it. And both DS and MK never got anywhere near it sounding as good as on the record, it’s actually miles away. On OTN this is not even so much a problem because things get interesting because of the great pedal steel solo, however during the solo tours it became quite disastrous because of the consequently poor soprano sax solos combined with the sloppy, untight (almost amateur-like) playing of the riff by MK himself.
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I believe I’ve read elsewhere that this story is about the OES riff/outro. In my honest opinion this fiddling with settings while playing the riff over and over again for hours did really pay off. On the record it sounds so amazingly good, truly wonderful, out of this world. It just sounds so clear, clean-like (although it isn’t), yet so powerful and insanely tight. As a guitar player I can state the part itself is pretty easy to play, however to get that sound and accomplish this effect is extremely difficult, at least I can’t do it. And both DS and MK never got anywhere near it sounding as good as on the record, it’s actually miles away. On OTN this is not even so much a problem because things get interesting because of the great pedal steel solo, however during the solo tours it became quite disastrous because of the consequently poor soprano sax solos combined with the sloppy, untight (almost amateur-like) playing of the riff by MK himself.
At the time of recording OES, MK was at his peak as a guitar player. And the tightness on OES is in no doubt much due to the great drummers on that album. Studio-grade compressors and top-notch engineers such as Chuck certainly help too. OES is just an amazing studio production - hard to reproduce that live, especially during the later solo tours where Mark's playing is nowhere near his peak. (He still has got the touch and feel, but the precision and drive is gone.)
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I read somewhere that Sir George Martin praised the outro of On Every Street, saying it sounded classical in it's progression and execution.
Did Phil say anything about playing with David Gilmour? Phil has played with lots of great players.
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I read somewhere that Sir George Martin praised the outro of On Every Street, saying it sounded classical in it's progression and execution.
Did Phil say anything about playing with David Gilmour? Phil has played with lots of great players.
MK mentioned this in an interview, he said GM said it sounded like Bartok or something.
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I read somewhere that Sir George Martin praised the outro of On Every Street, saying it sounded classical in it's progression and execution.
Did Phil say anything about playing with David Gilmour? Phil has played with lots of great players.
MK mentioned this in an interview, he said GM said it sounded like Bartok or something.
Puccini. ;)
LE
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I read somewhere that Sir George Martin praised the outro of On Every Street, saying it sounded classical in it's progression and execution.
Did Phil say anything about playing with David Gilmour? Phil has played with lots of great players.
MK mentioned this in an interview, he said GM said it sounded like Bartok or something.
Puccini. ;)
LE
Good catch!
Do you have the interview?
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No, I'm afraid not. Just remember it pretty sure.
LE
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people often says that Mark was at his peak in term of guitar playing during the OES era
I disagree
why most people think he was at his best ? because he played fast ?
I find that for example rhythm guitar parts on setting me up, single handed sailor or skateway are far more difficult technically than all guitar stuff on the OES album
I also find that the twiddy bits on sultans are easier to play than outro lick on lady writer
To me "Mark at his peak" is not intro licks on Heavy fuel live, or the TR solo played fast; neither calling Elvis
His guitar skills peak is for example the lick doubled by the sax on Portbolleo Belle in 83
during OES era, Mark was very show off, palying licks guitar-hero-like, but it was more doing the show, rather than really "guitar-skills" in my humble opinion
ending licks on Once upon a time live on Alchemy impress me far more than any solo on the OTN album, or even bootlegs from 91-92
I think that this "mark at his peak in 91-92" thing is a wrong vision imho
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people often says that Mark was at his peak in term of guitar playing during the OES era
I disagree
why most people think he was at his best ? because he played fast ?
I find that for example rhythm guitar parts on setting me up, single handed sailor or skateway are far more difficult technically than all guitar stuff on the OES album
I also find that the twiddy bits on sultans are easier to play than outro lick on lady writer
To me "Mark at his peak" is not intro licks on Heavy fuel live, or the TR solo played fast; neither calling Elvis
His guitar skills peak is for example the lick doubled by the sax on Portbolleo Belle in 83
during OES era, Mark was very show off, palying licks guitar-hero-like, but it was more doing the show, rather than really "guitar-skills" in my humble opinion
ending licks on Once upon a time live on Alchemy impress me far more than any solo on the OTN album, or even bootlegs from 91-92
I think that this "mark at his peak in 91-92" thing is a wrong vision imho
Absolutely. Nothing to add here... One Every Street era might seem overly "guitar hero" like, but it's just a natural evolution, we would get it no matter what. This is funny to me because I never considered Mark to be a virtuoso guitar player. His lines, and I learned a lot of them, are pretty logical and straightforward, it's not something that is usually associated with the term "virtuoso". I tend to think about it that Mark Knopfler is a virtuoso at being Mark Knopfler.
He's just a guy who's spent millions of hours playing simple stuff and not a guy who's spent hours playing millions of notes, and that's why he's so good. It's like ”I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.”
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people often says that Mark was at his peak in term of guitar playing during the OES era
I disagree
why most people think he was at his best ? because he played fast ?
I find that for example rhythm guitar parts on setting me up, single handed sailor or skateway are far more difficult technically than all guitar stuff on the OES album
I also find that the twiddy bits on sultans are easier to play than outro lick on lady writer
To me "Mark at his peak" is not intro licks on Heavy fuel live, or the TR solo played fast; neither calling Elvis
His guitar skills peak is for example the lick doubled by the sax on Portbolleo Belle in 83
during OES era, Mark was very show off, palying licks guitar-hero-like, but it was more doing the show, rather than really "guitar-skills" in my humble opinion
ending licks on Once upon a time live on Alchemy impress me far more than any solo on the OTN album, or even bootlegs from 91-92
I think that this "mark at his peak in 91-92" thing is a wrong vision imho
Absolutely. Nothing to add here... One Every Street era might seem overly "guitar hero" like, but it's just a natural evolution, we would get it no matter what. This is funny to me because I never considered Mark to be a virtuoso guitar player. His lines, and I learned a lot of them, are pretty logical and straightforward, it's not something that is usually associated with the term "virtuoso". I tend to think about it that Mark Knopfler is a virtuoso at being Mark Knopfler.
He's just a guy who's spent millions of hours playing simple stuff and not a guy who's spent hours playing millions of notes, and that's why he's so good. It's like ”I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.”
Exactly.
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people often says that Mark was at his peak in term of guitar playing during the OES era
I disagree
why most people think he was at his best ? because he played fast ?
I find that for example rhythm guitar parts on setting me up, single handed sailor or skateway are far more difficult technically than all guitar stuff on the OES album
I also find that the twiddy bits on sultans are easier to play than outro lick on lady writer
To me "Mark at his peak" is not intro licks on Heavy fuel live, or the TR solo played fast; neither calling Elvis
His guitar skills peak is for example the lick doubled by the sax on Portbolleo Belle in 83
during OES era, Mark was very show off, palying licks guitar-hero-like, but it was more doing the show, rather than really "guitar-skills" in my humble opinion
ending licks on Once upon a time live on Alchemy impress me far more than any solo on the OTN album, or even bootlegs from 91-92
I think that this "mark at his peak in 91-92" thing is a wrong vision imho
I think I disagree there, for me it's not so much Mark's guitar-playing peak than his creativity peak you're talking about if I get what you're saying.
I am pretty sure in 1991 he could still play every note of his first albums but having "evolved" in his musical path he was choosing different way of playing stuff.
Mark keeps repeating that playing with Chet Atkins helped him develop his guitar vocabulary. His Neck and Neck album is (for me) some kind of peak in his guitar-playing ability, his phrasing and technique and, to some extend, in his musicality.
Mark was also quoted, by the mid 80s as saying that he though he had evolved beyond merely saying "hello" in his guitar language, he could now say "Hello, how are you?" with a guitar, or something along that same humble line.
Also I have a problem when considering a musician's peak so early in his carreer especially when considering how long MK's carreer is.
Let's not confuse favourite era with best musical ability. (I am not saying that you do JF)
For me MK's guitar peak was 1996 album and tour. As varied pieces as "Don't you get it" and "Je suis désolé" (a true gem) are both stunning on a guitar level. (one has a very fast solo and the other a very subtle guitar part)
1996 tour was musicaly the most stunning for me. The musicality of Sultan's solos was second to none, his playing was neat, varied and soulful with hardly any mistakes.
I think he wrote better songs after 1996, and still today but his playing has never been as consistant (for me). Sadly I think his motorbike accident did some lasting harm.
All that said, it's only a matter of opinion. Some may rightly think he is at his peak now for numerous valid reasons, one being his experience. Alchemy era is of course wonderful too.
And then again creativity and musicality are very subjective topics.
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people often says that Mark was at his peak in term of guitar playing during the OES era
I disagree
why most people think he was at his best ? because he played fast ?
I find that for example rhythm guitar parts on setting me up, single handed sailor or skateway are far more difficult technically than all guitar stuff on the OES album
I also find that the twiddy bits on sultans are easier to play than outro lick on lady writer
To me "Mark at his peak" is not intro licks on Heavy fuel live, or the TR solo played fast; neither calling Elvis
His guitar skills peak is for example the lick doubled by the sax on Portbolleo Belle in 83
during OES era, Mark was very show off, palying licks guitar-hero-like, but it was more doing the show, rather than really "guitar-skills" in my humble opinion
ending licks on Once upon a time live on Alchemy impress me far more than any solo on the OTN album, or even bootlegs from 91-92
I think that this "mark at his peak in 91-92" thing is a wrong vision imho
I think I disagree there, for me it's not so much Mark's guitar-playing peak than his creativity peak you're talking about if I get what you're saying.
I am pretty sure in 1991 he could still play every note of his first albums but having "evolved" in his musical path he was choosing different way of playing stuff.
Mark keeps repeating that playing with Chet Atkins helped him develop his guitar vocabulary. His Neck and Neck album is (for me) some kind of peak in his guitar-playing ability, his phrasing and technique and, to some extend, in his musicality.
Mark was also quoted, by the mid 80s as saying that he though he had evolved beyond merely saying "hello" in his guitar language, he could now say "Hello, how are you?" with a guitar, or something along that same humble line.
Also I have a problem when considering a musician's peak so early in his carreer especially when considering how long MK's carreer is.
Let's not confuse favourite era with best musical ability. (I am not saying that you do JF)
For me MK's guitar peak was 1996 album and tour. As varied pieces as "Don't you get it" and "Je suis désolé" (a true gem) are both stunning on a guitar level. (one has a very fast solo and the other a very subtle guitar part)
1996 tour was musicaly the most stunning for me. The musicality of Sultan's solos was second to none, his playing was neat, varied and soulful with hardly any mistakes.
I think he wrote better songs after 1996, and still today but his playing has never been as consistant (for me). Sadly I think his motorbike accident did some lasting harm.
All that said, it's only a matter of opinion. Some may rightly think he is at his peak now for numerous valid reasons, one being his experience. Alchemy era is of course wonderful too.
And then again creativity and musicality are very subjective topics.
quoting the long lines extends the length of the thread significantly☝️
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quoting the long lines extends the length of the thread significantly☝️
so why did you it
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quoting the long lines extends the length of the thread significantly☝️
so why did you it
facts are not subject to debate
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people often says that Mark was at his peak in term of guitar playing during the OES era
I disagree
why most people think he was at his best ? because he played fast ?
I find that for example rhythm guitar parts on setting me up, single handed sailor or skateway are far more difficult technically than all guitar stuff on the OES album
I also find that the twiddy bits on sultans are easier to play than outro lick on lady writer
To me "Mark at his peak" is not intro licks on Heavy fuel live, or the TR solo played fast; neither calling Elvis
His guitar skills peak is for example the lick doubled by the sax on Portbolleo Belle in 83
during OES era, Mark was very show off, palying licks guitar-hero-like, but it was more doing the show, rather than really "guitar-skills" in my humble opinion
ending licks on Once upon a time live on Alchemy impress me far more than any solo on the OTN album, or even bootlegs from 91-92
I think that this "mark at his peak in 91-92" thing is a wrong vision imho
I think I disagree there, for me it's not so much Mark's guitar-playing peak than his creativity peak you're talking about if I get what you're saying.
I am pretty sure in 1991 he could still play every note of his first albums but having "evolved" in his musical path he was choosing different way of playing stuff.
Mark keeps repeating that playing with Chet Atkins helped him develop his guitar vocabulary. His Neck and Neck album is (for me) some kind of peak in his guitar-playing ability, his phrasing and technique and, to some extend, in his musicality.
Mark was also quoted, by the mid 80s as saying that he though he had evolved beyond merely saying "hello" in his guitar language, he could now say "Hello, how are you?" with a guitar, or something along that same humble line.
Also I have a problem when considering a musician's peak so early in his carreer especially when considering how long MK's carreer is.
Let's not confuse favourite era with best musical ability. (I am not saying that you do JF)
For me MK's guitar peak was 1996 album and tour. As varied pieces as "Don't you get it" and "Je suis désolé" (a true gem) are both stunning on a guitar level. (one has a very fast solo and the other a very subtle guitar part)
1996 tour was musicaly the most stunning for me. The musicality of Sultan's solos was second to none, his playing was neat, varied and soulful with hardly any mistakes.
I think he wrote better songs after 1996, and still today but his playing has never been as consistant (for me). Sadly I think his motorbike accident did some lasting harm.
All that said, it's only a matter of opinion. Some may rightly think he is at his peak now for numerous valid reasons, one being his experience. Alchemy era is of course wonderful too.
And then again creativity and musicality are very subjective topics.
quoting the long lines extends the length of the thread significantly☝️
True.
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I tend to agree with JF.
In terms of ability, I think Mark was already at his peak in 1978, and he remained at this peak at least until 2005. There was no room for improvement, really, he was a god from start, the first DS album is perfect...
He just felt bored to play always the same way, so the style varied a lot throughout the years. But I'm pretty sure he would have had to ability to play in 1978 like in 1992, and vice-versa, had he wanted to.
I agree that the OES tour was too much of a show-off exercice. As if Mark was so bored and not into it that he wanted to compensate by playing crazy stuff. Take TR, for instance. The end solo is out of the world, granted, but that's not doing justice to the song. Too fast, too rocky, too much for what TR had to deliver. No feeling in vocals, no intro, atrocious pedal steel, cheesy sax... Hardly the best versions. Yes 1996 was so much better, more "back to basis" while still very skillful. But Alchemy has the best vocals ever, with skillful guitar at the same time. One the best TR of all times..
And 2019 was so unexpectedly good, because he knew what he could play and what he couldn't, and what he chose to play was outstandingly delivered. WAM, STP, MFN, even BIA for some of them were the best ever. Speedway was still great. And the feeling was still there - take the new ones, who else could manage to get a crowd sing "Have you got my bacon roll" ? And take Matchstick man. A minimalist song about his past, bringing us to tears. Mark's equivalent to Beatles' Yesterday - a great example of l"ess is more"...
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Also agree with JF, the other thing I would add is that is that he was mainly playing the Pensa with distortion during this time.
Much easier to play fast with distortion. I’m much more impressed with his clean fast playing in the Alchemy era. This is his peak for me.
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Also agree with JF, the other thing I would add is that is that he was mainly playing the Pensa with distortion during this time.
Much easier to play fast with distortion. I’m much more impressed with his clean fast playing in the Alchemy era. This is his peak for me.
:thumbsup
on a funny note, but yet true, the easiest to play is when there is nobody nearby to hear my notes ;D
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What I meant by "peak" earlier is Mark's technical proficiency and dexterity, which means playing difficult stuff fast and fluently. (Although, that does not mean better musically.) Also, around that time he had spent much time with Chet and expanded his vocabulary quite a lot. I feel that from the 90s onwards he really lost interest in learning new things on the guitar, and basically woodshedding. Obviously he picked up stuff along the way, from Richard for instance, but not like he used to.
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It's very curious that after the DS tour, he went to work primarily in Italy, and from time to time in the UK...
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It's very curious that after the DS tour, he went to work primarily in Italy, and from time to time in the UK...
I think the main reason was the fact that he was married to a roman woman and then in the roman scene he collaborated for many years with renato zero, a very popular Italian singer :think
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yes he lives in Rome and has collobarated with many italian projects, albums or soundtracks for movies