A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: JF on May 11, 2022, 11:13:46 AM
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ok I know we all would want more than this, but here is an info I got from Universal this morning (deepl traduction) :
"Long awaited by the fans, here is finally the best of Dire Straits on double vinyl.
This compilation featuring the band's greatest tracks was unavailable on vinyl since 1990.
Two tracks did not appear on the previous edition: "Telegraph Road (Live Remix)" and "Portobello Belle (Live)".
This vinyl edition has been remastered by Bob Ludwig. 180 grams pressing."
DIRE STRAITS - MONEY FOR NOTHING - SORTIE LE 17 JUIN 2022
Très attendu par les fans, voici enfin le meilleur de Dire Straits en double vinyle.
Cette compilation qui reprend les plus grands titres du groupe était indisponible en vinyle depuis 1990.
Deux titres n’apparaissaient pas sur la précédente édition : "Telegraph Road (Live Remix)" et "Portobello Belle (Live)"
Cette édition vinyle a été remasterisée par Bob Ludwig. Pressage 180 grammes.
LP1 - Side A
Sultans Of Swing
Down To The Waterline
Portobello Belle (Live: Alternative Out-take) – version inédite
LP1 - Side B
Twisting By The Pool (Remix)
Tunnel Of Love
Romeo And Juliet
LP2 - Side C
Where Do You Think You're Going (demo)
Walk Of Life
Private Investigations
LP2 - Side D
Telegraph Road (Live Remix) – inédit en vinyle
Money For Nothing
Brothers In Arms
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Thanks for sharing. I feel like I can live without this one.
Where is On the Night...
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Very curious that they decide to re-release this compilation that was out of print in both LP and CD after the release of the compilation "Sultans of swing" and some years later the "Private Investigations" one...
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I'm actually quite excited to get a copy of this, This was the album that got me into DS as a kid so would be nice to have it complete on LP. My current LP version does have portobello belle, but no Telegraph road.
I think this is such a cool greatest hits album, cool cover , alternate version of where do you think you're going, twisting by the pool remix and a missing track from alchemy. (edit: well a track from sometime on the 83 tour! Paris?)
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https://store.udiscovermusic.com/*/*/Money-For-Nothing-Vinyl-Edition/7F740000000?utm_campaign=uDemail&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Storeemail
Portobello Belle : A brand new mix 😂
I think I won’t hear the difference !
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https://store.udiscovermusic.com/*/*/Money-For-Nothing-Vinyl-Edition/7F740000000?utm_campaign=uDemail&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Storeemail
Portobello Belle : A brand new mix 😂
I think I won’t hear the difference !
I could never tell the difference with the Twisting by the Pool remix but I never actually compared closely.
Telegraph Road is just from Alchemy isn't it?
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https://store.udiscovermusic.com/*/*/Money-For-Nothing-Vinyl-Edition/7F740000000?utm_campaign=uDemail&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Storeemail
Portobello Belle : A brand new mix 😂
I think I won’t hear the difference !
I could never tell the difference with the Twisting by the Pool remix but I never actually compared closely.
Telegraph Road is just from Alchemy isn't it?
you can hear the difference in the vocal of twisting : jus before the solos Mark's vocal has been burried in teh MFN comp version. knowing that Mark did the remix himself, maybe he didn't like his voice at the time ?
Telegraph road is remixed : you can hear Joop de Korte's percussions that you do'nt hear on Alchemy, and Hal's guitar is removed during the slow part in the middle. He was a little bit out of tune in Alchemy.
unfortunately, the end of the song is faded out
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"the end of the song is faded out"
I've always wondered - why ?
And I do not know to this day which version of Where Do You Think You're Gong ? I like more :)
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Is this the release that had the alternate version of “Where do you think you’re going?” on it?
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"the end of the song is faded out"
I've always wondered - why ?
And I do not know to this day which version of Where Do You Think You're Gong ? I like more :)
Space reasons on the CD I guess.
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Is this the release that had the alternate version of “Where do you think you’re going?” on it?
yes it is. the demo version recorded in fall 78 before the band flied to Nassau
appart from the song Communiqué which was composed in Nassau, all other songs from the album have been recorded during the same session as this demo.
I have a dream to hear them one day...
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/lalbum-communique-de-dire-straits-est-sorti-il-y-a-40-ans-aujourdhui/
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https://store.udiscovermusic.com/*/*/Money-For-Nothing-Vinyl-Edition/7F740000000?utm_campaign=uDemail&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Storeemail
Portobello Belle : A brand new mix 😂
I think I won’t hear the difference !
I could never tell the difference with the Twisting by the Pool remix but I never actually compared closely.
Telegraph Road is just from Alchemy isn't it?
you can hear the difference in the vocal of twisting : jus before the solos Mark's vocal has been burried in teh MFN comp version. knowing that Mark did the remix himself, maybe he didn't like his voice at the time ?
Telegraph road is remixed : you can hear Joop de Korte's percussions that you do'nt hear on Alchemy, and Hal's guitar is removed during the slow part in the middle. He was a little bit out of tune in Alchemy.
unfortunately, the end of the song is faded out
the overall sound of Telegraph is completely different, stunning remix imo, really great,
there's even a small MK error in the final solo which was fixed, a bending that went out of tune
which disappeared in the remix
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Gotta admit, naming any compilation or reissue "Money For Nothing" is the biggest trolling ever :lol
I'd vote for any remasterings and reissues to be named "Money For Nothing", for any artist out there.
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I wonder if Portobello Belle will be the full recording or just being marked “remixed” without any noticable changes. :think
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Gotta admit, naming any compilation or reissue "Money For Nothing" is the biggest trolling ever :lol
I'd vote for any remasterings and reissues to be named "Money For Nothing", for any artist out there.
MK spoke about this at the time, I think it was the joint Randy Newman interview in Q Magazine.
He said something like: "I wanted to call it Contractual Obligation Album but the record company thought that was a bit heavy".
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I wonder if Portobello Belle will be the full recording or just being marked “remixed” without any noticable changes. :think
Do you really have to wonder that?
I'm very sure it would be the same, otherwise that would be offering something new, and that is not going to happen.
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Is this the release that had the alternate version of “Where do you think you’re going?” on it?
yes it is. the demo version recorded in fall 78 before the band flied to Nassau
appart from the song Communiqué which was composed in Nassau, all other songs from the album have been recorded during the same session as this demo.
I have a dream to hear them one day...
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/lalbum-communique-de-dire-straits-est-sorti-il-y-a-40-ans-aujourdhui/
Out of all the album demos Communique are the ones I want to hear the most.It's an album full of beautiful relaxing songs and the one MK penned album I listen to the most.
At least we have another "new" album being released next month ;D
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I wonder if Portobello Belle will be the full recording or just being marked “remixed” without any noticable changes. :think
Do you really have to wonder that?
I'm very sure it would be the same, otherwise that would be offering something new, and that is not going to happen.
I know, it’s just wishful thinking… ;D
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Just another release that brings nothing new. I wish I could find something interesting in this, but it's the same songs, the same album, the same cover that has been released over 30 years ago. Nothing new, nothing to spark an interest in fans.
I mean, release different versions of the songs! Release the Telegraph Road from Japan '83 or the Romeo and Juliet from Madrid '83 or release the full version of Portobello Belle, just do anything other than the same things we've been listening for decades!
Or... just keep milking the cow's tit, I suppose.
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To me, it looks like an "updated" vinyl version of the former 1988 LP-Version, but with the CD-Album-content. The Japan-CD-Album Version features the bonus-track Solid Rock. Hmm, that comes to my question: "Is this "new" release important ?? :think
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This could be the reason behind all this:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/21/investment-dire-straits-launches-back-catalogue-bond
(https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/21/investment-dire-straits-launches-back-catalogue-bond)
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This could be the reason behind all this:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/21/investment-dire-straits-launches-back-catalogue-bond
(https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/21/investment-dire-straits-launches-back-catalogue-bond)
That's old news, from 2018, Ed Bicknell selling his part to a company.
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Is this the release that had the alternate version of “Where do you think you’re going?” on it?
Now on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/track/0SQboTAJeEpxxH8Vi5BStd?si=7VlxJc9-S3eb-M36jExn2g
👌🏻
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This could be the reason behind all this:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/21/investment-dire-straits-launches-back-catalogue-bond
(https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/21/investment-dire-straits-launches-back-catalogue-bond)
That's old news, from 2018, Ed Bicknell selling his part to a company.
It might be old new but it is still very valid. Being really cynical all these releases do is make money for the investors for the back catalogue packaged in as many ways possible to make the most out of the back catalogue.
On the other hand some interesting mixes on this one long unavailable. I'm not complaining
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Not sure the investors with a part share would be able to force through a release but who knows.
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Universal Music: Where Do You Think You're Going (Alternative Mix_Remastered 2022) new this week!
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I was searching for that one last monday (before i knew about this MFN re-release) on Youtube/spotify but i couldn't find it anywhere... Probably they saw all my search requests and decided to put it online :lol
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I’m actually quite happy with this release. More than the LOG one, I’m definitely going to buy it.
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Is this the release that had the alternate version of “Where do you think you’re going?” on it?
Now on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/track/0SQboTAJeEpxxH8Vi5BStd?si=7VlxJc9-S3eb-M36jExn2g
👌🏻
:clap :clap :wave
I just so love this version :D
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Is this the release that had the alternate version of “Where do you think you’re going?” on it?
Now on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/track/0SQboTAJeEpxxH8Vi5BStd?si=7VlxJc9-S3eb-M36jExn2g
👌🏻
Really nice this one. Gives the vibe of MK playing and singing on acoustic in 1 take then adding the rest later
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Portobello Belle live is now on streaming services and It is diferent from the one released on 1988!
That makes this double lp worth buying.
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Portobello Belle live is now on streaming services and It is diferent from the one released on 1988!
That makes this double lp worth buying.
What's different?
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I’m actually quite happy with this release. More than the LOG one, I’m definitely going to buy it.
ordered....
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Portobello Belle live is now on streaming services and It is diferent from the one released on 1988!
That makes this double lp worth buying.
What's different?
All
It is taken from another concert.
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Pretty cool to hear an other version. I really wish they will dig out the vault for more live treasures...
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Portobello Belle live is now on streaming services and It is diferent from the one released on 1988!
That makes this double lp worth buying.
What's different?
All
It is taken from another concert.
woowww !!! is it a full 13 or 15min version ? :P
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Interesting... although very strange. Imagine this was your favourite album ever and you wanted it on vinyl then it turned up and it was different to what you had heard for over 30 years :)
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do you have a link ? even a snippet ? I can't find one
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do you have a link ? even a snippet ? I can't find one
It's on streaming services
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Portobello Belle live is now on streaming services and It is diferent from the one released on 1988!
That makes this double lp worth buying.
What's different?
All
It is taken from another concert.
woowww !!! is it a full 13 or 15min version ? :P
No, just the same length
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https://open.spotify.com/track/5PB1Rg2lrzTZ9fZA4HuUm5?si=yI_6cRkhQ-iREGJbrGTtSQ&utm_source=copy-link
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Interesting... although very strange. Imagine this was your favourite album ever and you wanted it on vinyl then it turned up and it was different to what you had heard for over 30 years :)
That is indeed the case now..
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Portobello Belle live is now on streaming services and It is diferent from the one released on 1988!
That makes this double lp worth buying.
What's different?
All
It is taken from another concert.
woowww !!! is it a full 13 or 15min version ? :P
That would be too good to be true. But just goes to see the amount of stuff they have locked in a vault, that we would love to hear. They probably have soundboard versions of Tunnel of Love 1992, Planet of New Orleans 1991, Madrid 2001 and lots of other stuff.
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https://open.spotify.com/track/5PB1Rg2lrzTZ9fZA4HuUm5?si=yI_6cRkhQ-iREGJbrGTtSQ&utm_source=copy-link
thank you :thumbsup
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I thought the ‘original’ always sounded like the 84 mix, this take sounds more like the 88 TR remix. I prefer the original, but it makes you wonder what diamonds are left in the vaults.
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Guy says is from London, Hammersmith 22nd July, the night before alchemy.
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And there will be a (possible longer) Dolby Atmos version? But it is already online now at streaming...
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And there will be a (possible longer) Dolby Atmos version? But it is already online now at streaming...
I don’t understand all these different formats. Will the dolby atmos version be a digital copy only?
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nice version, but it's shame they didn't put the whole song with the fabulous outro
I don't understand their strategy : why a "new" version, not That different, on this format ?
ok new stuff is great, but only one song... pfff...
it looks like in 1988 they heard different takes from different gigs and they hesitate which one to use.
maybe they were already 2 different masters for the MFN comp, and finally one was left over
more than 30 years after, when they had to release the double vinyle format, they chose the "other" master....
it made me think to the mistake with the WII mexican promo
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Interesting choice given that the original live version is so much smoother and tighter,
having said that, cool to hear an alternate version after all these years, Great mix too! Shows what an awesome band they were at the time. 2 shows , 2 different version both great.
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Where can I listen Portobello outside of Spotify?
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https://youtu.be/yF0ZQHlVNF0
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Wow! Thank you very much Dutchessy :)
That sounds beautiful :)
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Guy says is from London, Hammersmith 22nd July, the night before alchemy.
:thumbsup
Portobello Belle on the Money For Nothing compilation (1988) - Palais des Sports Paris France, June 1983
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Interesting choice given that the original live version is so much smoother and tighter,
having said that, cool to hear an alternate version after all these years, Great mix too! Shows what an awesome band they were at the time. 2 shows , 2 different version both great.
I agree. The mix is very good.
But I like the 'old' version better.
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Interesting choice given that the original live version is so much smoother and tighter,
having said that, cool to hear an alternate version after all these years, Great mix too! Shows what an awesome band they were at the time. 2 shows , 2 different version both great.
I agree. The mix is very good.
But I like the 'old' version better.
yes me too.
especially the complete version :
https://youtu.be/lZbTVw5JeGc
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Interesting choice given that the original live version is so much smoother and tighter,
having said that, cool to hear an alternate version after all these years, Great mix too! Shows what an awesome band they were at the time. 2 shows , 2 different version both great.
I agree. The mix is very good.
But I like the 'old' version better.
yes me too.
especially the complete version :
https://youtu.be/lZbTVw5JeGc
Oh yes! What a genius version. It's a pity Mark uses that "calypso" type of sound that rarely, it feels like heaven when he does. He's got a bit of that in his new arrangement of "Postcards From Paraguay" when the solos are played in this very Cuban style or something. But then returns to a regular Paraguay :lol Calypso and reggae MK is something out of this world is that I'm saying.
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Interesting choice given that the original live version is so much smoother and tighter,
having said that, cool to hear an alternate version after all these years, Great mix too! Shows what an awesome band they were at the time. 2 shows , 2 different version both great.
I agree. The mix is very good.
But I like the 'old' version better.
yes me too.
especially the complete version :
https://youtu.be/lZbTVw5JeGc
Oh yes! What a genius version. It's a pity Mark uses that "calypso" type of sound that rarely, it feels like heaven when he does. He's got a bit of that in his new arrangement of "Postcards From Paraguay" when the solos are played in this very Cuban style or something. But then returns to a regular Paraguay :lol Calypso and reggae MK is something out of this world is that I'm saying.
and played on a unique Strat !
https://www.mk-guitar.com/2016/02/27/the-black-fender-strat-on-portobello-belle-on-the-love-over-gold-tour/
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Interesting choice given that the original live version is so much smoother and tighter,
having said that, cool to hear an alternate version after all these years, Great mix too! Shows what an awesome band they were at the time. 2 shows , 2 different version both great.
I agree. The mix is very good.
But I like the 'old' version better.
yes me too.
especially the complete version :
https://youtu.be/lZbTVw5JeGc
Oh yes! What a genius version. It's a pity Mark uses that "calypso" type of sound that rarely, it feels like heaven when he does. He's got a bit of that in his new arrangement of "Postcards From Paraguay" when the solos are played in this very Cuban style or something. But then returns to a regular Paraguay :lol Calypso and reggae MK is something out of this world is that I'm saying.
and played on a unique Strat !
https://www.mk-guitar.com/2016/02/27/the-black-fender-strat-on-portobello-belle-on-the-love-over-gold-tour/
I wonder if that awkward lick at 9:32 was a decision to cut this version that ridiculously early.
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I have the theory that something happened with the París 83 tapes, they couldnt use It to remix It for the lp, and needed to use Another versión of the song.
I dont believe they did it to offer something new, intentionally
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I wonder if that awkward lick at 9:32 was a decision to cut this version that ridiculously early.
I would rather bet it was due to the CD/LP length
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I cannot find the exact date Portobello Belle (album Money For Nothing) :think
Do we know which concert Portobello Belle version is from? From 19 to 23 June (83) they played at the Palais des Sports Paris.
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I cannot find the exact date of Portobello Belle (album Money For Nothing) :think
Do we know which concert Portobello Belle version is from? From 19 to 23 June (83) they played at the Palais des Sports Paris.
It was a mix of dates. Most of the song was from the 21st i think, but some vocal parts were taken from other days, also some musical parts too.
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I suspected so. Thanks jbaent:)
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Portobello Belle's live version present in the 1988 release compilation MFN, more than 90% comes from the second night in Paris, June 20, 1983, I had noticed that this recording had not been cataloged correctly, it is the PB version that on the bootleg it marks 17:23 min it is in Paris, June 20, 1983 and as I mentioned, more than 90% of it was used for the "hybrid" version in the MFN compilation. There is a topic where I explained this in detail, whoever is interested, here it is.
https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=5824.0
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Well this is very good news that we are actually getting a genuine unreleased cut of a song. What is even more encouraging is that this is a new mix by Guy Fletcher so you would hope he has also mixed other tunes too from the previous Alchemy show. I've only had a quick listen to the new version of PB but it sounds really crisp and the music is raw which is what I like . Really great to have something new from the archives at last. For those who like the previous mix of PB, pick up a second hand cd from ebay! More music from the archives please, we have been waiting for this for a long time. Wouldn't be surprised if there are other surprises to come on the released companion.
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Portobello Belle's live version present in the 1988 release compilation MFN, more than 90% comes from the second night in Paris, June 20, 1983, I had noticed that this recording had not been cataloged correctly, it is the PB version that on the bootleg it marks 17:23 min it is in Paris, June 20, 1983 and as I mentioned, more than 90% of it was used for the "hybrid" version in the MFN compilation. There is a topic where I explained this in detail, whoever is interested, here it is.
https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=5824.0
thanks Brunno.
I have mentionned you on my blog post, and put a link to the forum thread
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/une-nouvelle-version-live-de-portobello-belle-de-dire-straits/
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Interesting choice given that the original live version is so much smoother and tighter,
having said that, cool to hear an alternate version after all these years, Great mix too! Shows what an awesome band they were at the time. 2 shows , 2 different version both great.
I agree. The mix is very good.
But I like the 'old' version better.
Agreed! I like the old version better, I do like that this version is a bit more raw though in some ways.
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The difference is negligible tbh on that particular song when the outro is cut. A different TR I could understand. Makes you wonder why they bothered, unless they're working on the recording anyway and this is just a teaser... :think
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I am not a big fan of the LOG tour.
PB from1981 is still the one live version for me.
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The difference is negligible tbh on that particular song when the outro is cut. A different TR I could understand. Makes you wonder why they bothered, unless they're working on the recording anyway and this is just a teaser... :think
I insist on my theory. They would had liked to use the París versión but something might happened to that tapes so they had to search for Another version of Portobello.
We know them to well to believe they wanted to offer something new by themselves and made the fans happy. Naaaaaa .
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The difference is negligible tbh on that particular song when the outro is cut. A different TR I could understand. Makes you wonder why they bothered, unless they're working on the recording anyway and this is just a teaser... :think
I insist on my theory. They would had liked to use the París versión but something might happened to that tapes so they had to search for Another version of Portobello.
We know them to well to believe they wanted to offer something new by themselves and made the fans happy. Naaaaaa .
I think you're right. And it's also an easy thing to justify. Can't work with the source material? Great, give something new instead, that will work.
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So we have official 12 song from this tour (not counting Paris version:) I wonder why Portobello Belle from July 22 and not 23 (from the whole concert that is on Alchemy)
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The difference is negligible tbh on that particular song when the outro is cut. A different TR I could understand. Makes you wonder why they bothered, unless they're working on the recording anyway and this is just a teaser... :think
I insist on my theory. They would had liked to use the París versión but something might happened to that tapes so they had to search for Another version of Portobello.
We know them to well to believe they wanted to offer something new by themselves and made the fans happy. Naaaaaa .
Perhaps, but they didn't have to change anything.
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I am not a big fan of the LOG tour.
PB from1981 is still the one live version for me.
in 81 Hal's solo on PB was out of taste imho
sometimes even out of tune
"not a big fan of the LOG tour" .... you mean not a big fan of Alchemy ? ::) ???
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The difference is negligible tbh on that particular song when the outro is cut. A different TR I could understand. Makes you wonder why they bothered, unless they're working on the recording anyway and this is just a teaser... :think
I insist on my theory. They would had liked to use the París versión but something might happened to that tapes so they had to search for Another version of Portobello.
We know them to well to believe they wanted to offer something new by themselves and made the fans happy. Naaaaaa .
It would be easy for them just to remaster from the original CD master if they wanted to make life very easy for themselves. To do an entirely new mix for a song is much more complicated; finding the source; transferring it to digital, cleaning the tracks, spending time mixing , then finally mastering. They must be working on the source material for another reason.
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A different TR I could understand.
even on a whole song, differences between two gigs during the LOG tour is often negligible
like Hal said "Mark played almost the same solos every night"
it doesn't mean the LOG wasn't great, on the contrary I love it, but I think that improvisation territory was almost inexistant
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The difference is negligible tbh on that particular song when the outro is cut. A different TR I could understand. Makes you wonder why they bothered, unless they're working on the recording anyway and this is just a teaser... :think
I insist on my theory. They would had liked to use the París versión but something might happened to that tapes so they had to search for Another version of Portobello.
We know them to well to believe they wanted to offer something new by themselves and made the fans happy. Naaaaaa .
It would be easy for them just to remaster from the original CD master if they wanted to make life very easy for themselves. To do an entirely new mix for a song is much more complicated; finding the source; transferring it to digital, cleaning the tracks, spending time mixing , then finally mastering. They must be working on the source material for another reason.
that would be really great. But indeed, why the 22 and not he 23 ? :think
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on another subject, do you know why there are two different picture sleeves for the MFN comp ?
not exactly same Mark's pose
different countries editions ?
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on another subject, do you know why there are two different picture sleeves for the MFN comp ?
not exactly same Mark's pose
different countries editions ?
I've always thought about that too.
I have the first one:)
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Different covers for diferents formats, one was for the lp, the other for cd and casete, as far i remember.
Maybe one pic didnt dit for both formats.
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I would never have noticed that in a million years! :lol
We can't say we aren't getting anything new now!
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I would never have noticed that in a million years! :lol
We can't say we aren't getting anything new now!
:lol :lol
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and the VHS/laser-disc released at the same time "The videos" is even more different :
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and the VHS/laser-disc released at the same time "The videos" is even more different :
The same picture shows Money For Nothing disk
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By the way, it's interesting that Guy worked on Portobello Belle and probably has Alchemy tapes. And he wasn't on the band yet.
I can't stop listening to Portobello Belle 2022. Beautiful.
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I thought that too, so they do look back!!! :think
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I thought that too, so they do look back!!! :think
Exactly :)
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I thought that too, so they do look back!!! :think
Exactly :)
Only when there's £££'s to be made! ;)
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Yes, different cover-layouts for the CD-Album and for the LP-Album.
The first pic with Marks "invisible" view to the left was used for the CD-cover and the second pic with Marks "invisible" view to the right side was used for the LP-cover.Also used for the 2-Track and the 4-Track-CD-single-covers and for the 7-inch-singles from 1988-89.
Here are the two neon-light Knopflers on the records. ;D ;D
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and the VHS/laser-disc released at the same time "The videos" is even more different :
This was released later, 1992 I think :)
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I can't believe how idiotic it is to re-release this album. I like the new PB version (WDYTYG not so much), and the mix and sound are great, but it just goes to show there are gems hidden in the vaults! If MK doesn't care about it, so let John and Guy handle the job.
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I can't believe how idiotic it is to re-release this album. I like the new PB version (WDYTYG not so much), and the mix and sound are great, but it just goes to show there are gems hidden in the vaults! If MK doesn't care about it, so let John and Guy handle the job.
+1000 :thumbsup
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and the VHS/laser-disc released at the same time "The videos" is even more different :
This was released later, 1992 I think :)
yes indeed
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Yes, different cover-layouts for the CD-Album and for the LP-Album.
The first pic with Marks "invisible" view to the left was used for the CD-cover and the second pic with Marks "invisible" view to the right side was used for the LP-cover.Also used for the 2-Track and the 4-Track-CD-single-covers and for the 7-inch-singles from 1988-89.
Here are the two neon-light Knopflers on the records. ;D ;D
thanks :thumbsup
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Exactly.
I litterally discovered Dire Straits with Alchemy but over the years compared to each other tours this one always appeared to me as the weakest one.
I am not a big fan of the LOG tour.
PB from1981 is still the one live version for me.
in 81 Hal's solo on PB was out of taste imho
sometimes even out of tune
"not a big fan of the LOG tour" .... you mean not a big fan of Alchemy ? ::) ???
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Has Portobello Belle disappeared from Spotify or is it just me?
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Has Portobello Belle disappeared from Spotify or is it just me?
Not just you…
It’s blanked out for me too >:(
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Has Portobello Belle disappeared from Spotify or is it just me?
Not just you…
It’s blanked out for me too >:(
It is still available on Amazon music, im listening to It right now.
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Has Portobello Belle disappeared from Spotify or is it just me?
Not just you…
It’s blanked out for me too >:(
It is still available on Amazon music, im listening to It right now.
and even on YouTube
but indeed spotify says "not availbale in your country" (I live in France)
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/une-nouvelle-version-live-de-portobello-belle-de-dire-straits/
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Has Portobello Belle disappeared from Spotify or is it just me?
Not just you…
It’s blanked out for me too >:(
It is still available on Amazon music, im listening to It right now.
On Amazon music Walk of Life UK Version (video) has just been added as a new release. So plenty going on at DS HQ.
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I can't believe how idiotic it is to re-release this album. I like the new PB version (WDYTYG not so much), and the mix and sound are great, but it just goes to show there are gems hidden in the vaults! If MK doesn't care about it, so let John and Guy handle the job.
Massively agree. Guy, have a word, it's getting silly now
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And to top it off nicely, the version of TR that appears on Spotify on the album released today is just a shortened studio version from the sound of it. Epic fail or Spotify error ?
Edit: appears it is actually a studio version based on sound clips of the vinyl. Can't tell any difference from the LOG version other than they don't fade the song at the end and you get about 3 seconds of an unplanned ending and a weird Hal Lindes flutter on the guitar. Not worth £30 on vinyl for me. Would be interested to hear what is definitely on the vinyl from someone who does buy it.
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The version I hear on Apple Music is definitely not a studio one. Sounds like a remaster of the same live version that was originally released but with an almost complete ending as opposed to an early fade out. I think some vocals sound a little different too so could be a different version or just fragments comped from a different show.
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TR on spotify is the studio version with intro cut, listening now
Length is 13.08, the original live remix was 11.59
I hear a lot more bass in the outro and that last 20 secs its complete new... wtf... it's quite cool to have a new mix of the studio version i think...
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In Amazon music it's also an unfaded version of the TR studio version. It's not live at all, that drums are Pick Withers for sure.
It does says live at the Hammersmith, but it's for sure a studio version, not sure if it is the same one from LOG, an alternative take etc, but it's for sure a studio version from the LOG sessions.
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Yes, have you heard the last 20 secs? :o
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Yes, have you heard the last 20 secs? :o
Yes, they cut abruptly the end when the song was ending! damm it!
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but it's complete new
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Also Sultans is not the studio version, but the single version.
And I'd say that Twisting is from the EP, not from the 1988 remix.
At least four differences from the 1988 version, Sultans, Twisting, Portobello and TR
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Wow, interesting to know. Does somebody have checked the vinyl-disc-quality, because the 2-LP-Set was made through GZ-Media in Czech Republic. I hope, they are getting better and better in vinyl-manufacturing. In the past, that GZ-Media pressing plant made a lot of mistakes with their pressings. :think
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didn't have the time to listen it yet
but WTF surprises ?!!
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didn't have the time to listen it yet
but WTF surprises ?!!
Yes, new ending to TR studio version... I don't know if you like it... no fade out
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didn't have the time to listen it yet
but WTF surprises ?!!
Yes, new ending to TR studio version... I don't know if you like it... no fade out
I got the LP, but not opened it yet
about TR could it be the acetate that Mimmo was talking about ?
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didn't have the time to listen it yet
but WTF surprises ?!!
Yes, new ending to TR studio version... I don't know if you like it... no fade out
For me it looks like whoever was remixing this, didn't check the end, because that end is so abrupt that it needed a fade out really, lol
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This is hilarious. I can't believe they released it with this "ending".
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didn't have the time to listen it yet
but WTF surprises ?!!
Yes, new ending to TR studio version... I don't know if you like it... no fade out
For me it looks like whoever was remixing this, didn't check the end, because that end is so abrupt that it needed a fade out really, lol
I think it's kinda cool to have something new these days ;)
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But it looks like i'm the only one ::)
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But it looks like i'm the only one ::)
No, not at all, I'm really excited that in the end, we got a re-release with new stuff on it!!!!!
I love to have the single version of Sultans instead the studio version, a new Portobello, an unfaded version of TR, the EP version of Twisting but mixed properly... it's so amazing!
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::) ::)
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::) ::)
And, despite how happy I am about having all these differences betwen the original release and this new one, I can't stop thinking that something happened that forced them to do this in this way... it's nou usual do a re-release and change things, it´s like, for example, they couldn't use the same Portobello than in 1988 because they lost the Paris 83 tapes or got damaged, like when mixing the TR someone failed to noticed it had to be a live version and also failed to check the end of the song and left that end without edit...
Who knows what happened but, anyway, I'm happy this re-release has something new.
Also I always thouth that the single version of Sultans was better than the record one. In fact, the demo was even better than those two for me!
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The version I hear on Apple Music is definitely not a studio one. Sounds like a remaster of the same live version that was originally released but with an almost complete ending as opposed to an early fade out. I think some vocals sound a little different too so could be a different version or just fragments comped from a different show.
Judging from the preview snippet on Apple Music it’s the studio version, also the length is the same.
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didn't have the time to listen it yet
but WTF surprises ?!!
Yes, new ending to TR studio version... I don't know if you like it... no fade out
I got the LP, but not opened it yet
about TR could it be the acetate that Mimmo was talking about ?
When I listened to that end, that's the first thought it came to mind!
It might be the same, but don't know for sure, never heard that acetate version myself.
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That could mean this is the original TR ending then...
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That could mean this is the original TR ending then...
Yes it is.
Probably most songs that end with a fade out have an ending like that, that's the reason why they do a fade out.
I think there is a Sultans version with a similar end, from the Guitar Hero videogame, with also an abrupt and curious end.
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That could mean this is the original TR ending then...
Yes it is.
Probably most songs that end with a fade out have an ending like that, that's the reason why they do a fade out.
I think there is a Sultans version with a similar end, from the Guitar Hero videogame, with also an abrupt and curious end.
Yes, it's true... I need to compare the both TR versions for the outro
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It's interesting to listen to, if it was released as a sort of "out take", but someone could go and find Telegraph Road on Spotify for the first time and this is what they would hear. Oh boy.
Can you imagine this happening with The Beatles or Queen?
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It's interesting to listen to, if it was released as a sort of "out take", but someone could go and find Telegraph Road on Spotify for the first time and this is what they would hear. Oh boy.
Can you imagine this happening with The Beatles or Queen?
They will think it's a very good live version ;)
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the strange thing is why release this stuff on a comp ?
why didn't they put bonus tracks on re-releases of the albums ?
the sultans single version should have been on the first album re-release, Portobello Belle on the alchemy re-release, etc...
I don't get their "strategy".... or should I say : their absence of strategy...
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the strange thing is why release this stuff on a comp ?
why didn't they put bonus tracks on re-releases of the albums ?
the sultans single version should have been on the first album re-release, Portobello Belle on the alchemy re-release, etc...
I don't get their "strategy".... or should I say : their absence of strategy...
It is their strategy. MK always says they always go from one crisis to the next.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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That could mean this is the original TR ending then...
Yes it is.
Probably most songs that end with a fade out have an ending like that, that's the reason why they do a fade out.
I think there is a Sultans version with a similar end, from the Guitar Hero videogame, with also an abrupt and curious end.
Yes, it's true... I need to compare the both TR versions for the outro
Yeah, where the original fades, this one continues for 16 more seconds.
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Crap, listened again and it’s obvious now. They tricked me. :-\
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Hmm, so now i have checked that 2-LP-Set. First impression, really good pressings for such GZ-Media products.
TR sounds clear and powerful to me from my hi-fi system. Very intresting to hear some different guitarparts shortly when the fade-out starts. Hmm, that comes to my question to that version. How long would it last without that fading.? To my impression, the fading-process is very fast in that song, but i´m of the opinion that there will be not many seconds left, but that is my opinion. :think
Hmm, i´m not sure if that TR version came from an unknown acetate-record, but that different guitar-part at the end is remarkable in comparison with the other TR version. Who know´s more about such different track-versions on acetates in the vaults of Mark.?
Elvis Presley had a lot of such acetate-records for the first impression of the recorded work. I have heard, that he had recorded the famous song Hound Dog more that 30 times in the studio, and he had to choose on version for the single-release in 1956.
I personally own a So Far Away single-version as Sound-Clinic-acetate in 7-inch format. Can somebody imagine, that there are truely some different recorded versions of known DS songs in Marks archive in form of acetate-records ??
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Universal gave the entire album. I am happy like a child:)
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Hmm, so now i have checked that 2-LP-Set. First impression, really good pressings for such GZ-Media products.
TR sounds clear and powerful to me from my hi-fi system. Very intresting to hear some different guitarparts shortly when the fade-out starts. Hmm, that comes to my question to that version. How long would it last without that fading.? To my impression, the fading-process is very fast in that song, but i´m of the opinion that there will be not many seconds left, but that is my opinion. :think
Hmm, i´m not sure if that TR version came from an unknown acetate-record, but that different guitar-part at the end is remarkable in comparison with the other TR version. Who know´s more about such different track-versions on acetates in the vaults of Mark.?
Elvis Presley had a lot of such acetate-records for the first impression of the recorded work. I have heard, that he had recorded the famous song Hound Dog more that 30 times in the studio, and he had to choose on version for the single-release in 1956.
I personally own a So Far Away single-version as Sound-Clinic-acetate in 7-inch format. Can somebody imagine, that there are truely some different recorded versions of known DS songs in Marks archive in form of acetate-records ??
Is there a fade out in Telegraph Road on the LP version? On spotify there is no fade-out until the last couple of seconds (ending with a shipping bell sound or something?)
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Very misleading. I don't have a hard copy of the album but do they provide any info on these alternate takes/versions in liner notes or is it a copy from 1988?
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The TR mix is an embarrassment. The best song he's ever written, and its legacy just gets destroyed. All the build-up magic is thrown away by those last 15 seconds.
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Hello Dutchessy and kooba.
Topic TR version on new 2-LP-Set.
Ok, my first experience in listening to that version, i come to that conclusion that the song doesn´t sound like a live-version, because in the quiet parts of that epic song, there is no audience-background noise listenable. So it must be a studio-version. At the end of that song i have recognized some different guitarparts and than the song ended very fast. It sounds to me, like a fast fadeout, but that is my personal expection. Portobello belle is a live version. Money for nothing and Brothers in arms are shorter versions.
Topic the whole release.
Hello kooba, ok, everybody can value that release differently, but to me it is more an "updated version" to the original 1988 single LP-version, than a 1:1 copy. But there are some significant differences between the known releases.
The first vinyl release in 1988 was a single LP-Album and NOT a 2-LP-Set. Telegraph road is missing in general on the vinyl version, but it is included as a LIVE-Version on the CD-Version from 1988. The japanese CD-Version features Solid rock as a bonus-track. Solid rock is also included on the Japanese Vinyl single LP-version, but there is also no Telegraph road included.
There are some new liner notes on the lyric-picture-sheet:
Remastered by Bob Ludwig at Gateway Mastering, Cut by Bernie Grundman at Bernie Grundmans Mastering. Portobello Belle is mixed by Guy Fletcher. Reissue Artwork: Matt Read @ Combustion Ltd. Mark Knopfler is managed by Paul Crockford, assisted by Sherry Elbe at Crockford management. Reissue A&R: Jason Day & Lisa Power. Tape Archivist & Transfers: Dan Abela.
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And who did the Telegraph Road mix? ::)
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I don´t know. sorry, but in case of the TR mix, there are no further information.
This listed guy, called Dan Abela who is credited as a so called "tape-archivist and transfer", could have more information, because he could be involved in the record-producing process allready.
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Thanks Klaus for the info on the liner notes. Don't get me wrong, I am excited to hear these new versions. I just think it's unprofessional to release this stuff without proper information.
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Hi kooba. Yes, you are right. We need some more background information on the used audio-material, wich so called takes, or alternate versions had been used, and wich persons are responsible for that release or which persons are involved in the production processes.
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Picture this. In case of alternate Elvis Presley-song versions, there is much better musical research from the past till today. There are many releases on CD or Vinyl with clear defined takes, or versions of songs from known studio-sessions. They are credited for example: "Hound Dog, unreleased Take Number-3, 1956" or something like that. There is more transparence in rare and alternative versions of known Elvis songs.
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My example with the unreleased alternative song-versions of Elvis Presley, which are known to the fans and listeners is an illustration of my thaughts in case of unreleased take-versions of DS or MK-songs.
How many Telegraph road versions are on MKs studio-reels in his archive for example, or how many variants of MFN, BIA, SOS, exist really on various master-tapes or acetate-records ?? That is important and thrilling to know, to us fans of recorded DS and MK material.
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Much less important than the version identification going on on this thread, but maybe worth mentioning that on Qobuz (the best of the streaming services), the album plays at 192/24 - the first time most of this stuff has been available in high res digital. (Even if Hunter will tell you it’s irrelevant.)
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Much less important than the version identification going on on this thread, but maybe worth mentioning that on Qobuz (the best of the streaming services), the album plays at 192/24 - the first time most of this stuff has been available in high res digital. (Even if Hunter will tell you it’s irrelevant.)
I too will say that.
I will add, be careful that the 192khz ultrasounds don't destroy your speakers :-)
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The TR mix is an embarrassment. The best song he's ever written, and its legacy just gets destroyed. All the build-up magic is thrown away by those last 15 seconds.
Is it THAT bad ? ???
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That's true. Sultans is a different version.
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The TR mix is an embarrassment. The best song he's ever written, and its legacy just gets destroyed. All the build-up magic is thrown away by those last 15 seconds.
Is it THAT bad ? ???
https://youtu.be/8-sFhlZGDsU
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Telegraph Road (Live Remix) time: 13.08
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I have listened to TR and this thing is... weird.
1. First, it seems to be labelled "live at Hammersmith Odeon", which is clearly not. Is the vinyl labelled this way??
2. Then, its length is reduced from 14'18'' (studio version) down to 13'08'' (more or less matching Alchemy's). This was done mainly by reducing the intro down to the part that was played during the OES tour. What's the interest of doing that??
3. This being said, the fade-in is nicely done.
4. Overall the mix is quite clear and nice, better than the album.
5. But the ending kind of ruins it, the weirdest ever, not anything heard before, very quick, sounds like a cover, when was this recorded?? I bet not in 1982... And it's quite poorly done, you can hear softly church bells in the end ???
Wtf, what's the purpose of all this ???
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Its just from the original without the fade out (and with the fade in)
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Now I know how they ended it in the studio.
Sounds fun to me.
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The whole thing is bizarre. If Mark finds out maybe there will be a recall! ;D
They could be in trouble if people expecting a live version find this when they spin it. :o
Is it a practical joke or some kind of mis-communication somewhere along the line? This should never have happened at a professional level, so it shouldn't surprise us by now. :smack
It's all interesting for die hards like us but should never be on a bog standard commercial "greatest hits" release such as this.
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I’ve just finished a first listen to the whole album in high res. With one exception, I think it’s been well done, on the whole, vocal, drums and bass seem to have been boosted a bit, but not to excess. I haven’t done any comparisons with other versions yet, but that’s my general impression. The exception is the weird TR, intro and outro buggered about - why? But also the sound here doesn’t compare with the other tracks. While I haven’t checked this out against the studio version or another dozen or so live versions I can access, I did feel MK’s voice has a tired smoky feel to it (not inappropriate for the song) I don’t remember. What on earth is going on here?
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At this point, everything related to this release is just a joke now. What an embarrassment
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At this point, everything related to this release is just a joke now. What an embarrassment
Sorry, but notwithstanding my comments immediately above yours, I do think your post is an exaggeration.
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At this point, everything related to this release is just a joke now. What an embarrassment
Sorry, but notwithstanding my comments immediately above yours, I do think your post is an exaggeration.
Maybe, but I've never seen another release by any other band where they incorrectly title a song as "live" and then it's the same original studio version. I find this absolutely ridiculous. We could also talk about how they came up with the most bizarre ending to Telegraph Road ever. Or how they again chose not to give the fans a full version of Portobello Belle. Or maybe it's just me who isn't easily satisfied with this amateur release.
It just seems like a job made by two 12 year-old kids.
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At this point, everything related to this release is just a joke now. What an embarrassment
Sorry, but notwithstanding my comments immediately above yours, I do think your post is an exaggeration.
Maybe, but I've never seen another release by any other band where they incorrectly title a song as "live" and then it's the same original studio version. I find this absolutely ridiculous. We could also talk about how they came up with the most bizarre ending to Telegraph Road ever. Or how they again chose not to give the fans a full version of Portobello Belle. Or maybe it's just me who isn't easily satisfied with this amateur release.
It just seems like a job made by two 12 year-old kids.
But it's not called "Money For Something". It's "Money For Nothing" :lol
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At this point, everything related to this release is just a joke now. What an embarrassment
Sorry, but notwithstanding my comments immediately above yours, I do think your post is an exaggeration.
Maybe, but I've never seen another release by any other band where they incorrectly title a song as "live" and then it's the same original studio version. I find this absolutely ridiculous. We could also talk about how they came up with the most bizarre ending to Telegraph Road ever. Or how they again chose not to give the fans a full version of Portobello Belle. Or maybe it's just me who isn't easily satisfied with this amateur release.
It just seems like a job made by two 12 year-old kids.
But it's not called "Money For Something". It's "Money For Nothing" :lol
;D ;D The title is warning us
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Someone says on fb that sultans is single version only on digital but not on vinyl :hmm
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It's very good to get things we have not heard before and I hope we get more, released in the right way as part of new, full album format
I am not a fan of tinkering with old releases which stood in their own right as a musicsl document. PB and TR were highlights of the MFN comp and yes, I'm really happy we have new stuff, but this kind of feels like reinventing history. When I first heard TR this morning it just sounded like they had spliced on an ending using a non descript guitarist: I'd put money on it that it isn't MK you hear at the end.
How this all came about would be really good to understand. TR feels like a very late swap, almost unfinished remix hurried out to fill a gap.
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Someone sareys on fb that sultans is single version only on digital but not on vinyl :hmm
Cam anyone confirm yet if it is the studio version of TR on vinyl or live?
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I have heard it again and i can say to 100% that the TR version on that new 2-LP-Set is a studio version. The TR version from the CD-Album of 1988 is definitely a live-version. The live-crowd is listenable in any case.
So now the big question: What kind of studio-version is used in the new 2-LP-set ??? And why they used the fast fade-out at the end of the song ??
:think
The original 1988 LP-Album does not include TR, not the US, UK, NDL, Japan or other release around the globe. That´s a fact.
The label-inscription say and the track-information on backcover say: Telegraph Road - live (remix). It is the same typesetting and layout like the used layout for the CD-back-cover.
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Here we have a pic of my LP-copy from label,backcover and the 1988 hype-sticker on my CD-cover. The length of the TR live version from 1988 CD-Album is 11:59min.
:think
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I have heard it again and i can say to 100% that the TR version on that new 2-LP-Set is a studio version. The TR version from the CD-Album of 1988 is definitely a live-version. The live-crowd is listenable in any case.
So now the big question: What kind of studio-version is used in the new 2-LP-set ??? And why they used the fast fade-out at the end of the song ??
:think
The original 1988 LP-Album does not include TR, not the US, UK, NDL, Japan or other release around the globe. That´s a fact.
The label-inscription say and the track-information on backcover say: Telegraph Road - live (remix). It is the same typesetting and layout like the used layout for the CD-back-cover.
Thanks for confirming.
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Could the lick at the end of TR be Hal?
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Could the lick at the end of TR be Hal?
Just had a listen to Telegraph Road. Never was a fan of a studio version anyway. This "reveal" of the fade-out makes it clear to me NOT to wait for anything new really. If it was cut, it was probably cut for a reason, this is what I tend to think, and this fadeout is another proof of that. I don't know what it is, or who played it, but it deserves the cut. RIP all who kept these rare and expensive acetates with a complete fade-out of this magnitude in secret all this time.
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I'm so confused as to why they left this TR ending on there, It's got to be a mistake ... right? The Portobello Belle alt version was a bit confusing but I understand if they lost the tapes or wanted a version that was closer to the rest of the alchemy shows (being a hammersmith recording) but this just seems bizarre! Let alone throwing in there that it's "Live" when it clearly isn't.
EDIT : Sounds like the final lick is Hal to me, Doesn't sound like MK , Playing something that he knows wont' be included as it's supposed to be a fade out!
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So, we have:
1 - Sultans Of Swing (alternate post-album single version)
2 - New Portobello Belle live from 1983/07/22
3 - Twisting By The Pool EP original version (not 1988 remix)
4 - Telegraph Road (¿acetate version?; 1 - no intro, 2 - first piano notes one octave upped from studio version/different mix, 3- final part with different mix and without fade out)
5 - Brothers In Arms (NEW edit version, 10 seconds longer)
On vinyl Sultans Of Swing is album version.
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I am listening to the vinyl right now
I confirm : Sultans is the album version on the vinyl !
so the single version is only avalaible on streaming platforms !
what are they doing ??!!!
I agree : it is very very very amateurish.... :disbelief
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I am listening to the vinyl right now
I confirm : Sultans is the album version on the vinyl !
so the single version is only avalaible on streaming platforms !
what are they doing ??!!!
I agree : it is very very very amateurish.... :disbelief
can you confirm if Twisting By The Pool is remix on vinyl? And Brothers In Arms edit? Is longer than 1988 edit?
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about TR it makes me think to the uncut version of "almost cut my hair" by CSN on their "Carry on comp released in 91 or the "I shot the sheriff" EC version on the "Life in 12 bars" soundtrack.
in both case, the same version as on originals LP, but the complete take wihout editing
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I am listening to the vinyl right now
I confirm : Sultans is the album version on the vinyl !
so the single version is only avalaible on streaming platforms !
what are they doing ??!!!
I agree : it is very very very amateurish.... :disbelief
can you confirm if Twisting By The Pool is remix on vinyl? And Brothers In Arms edit? Is longer than 1988 edit?
ok
I am listening to Portobello belle right now which is the "new" version
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I am listening to the vinyl right now
I confirm : Sultans is the album version on the vinyl !
so the single version is only avalaible on streaming platforms !
what are they doing ??!!!
I agree : it is very very very amateurish.... :disbelief
can you confirm if Twisting By The Pool is remix on vinyl? And Brothers In Arms edit? Is longer than 1988 edit?
ok
I am listening to Portobello belle right now which is the "new" version
twisting sounds like the original EP mix to me
at least we can hear clearly Mark's voice shouting before the solo
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On the 1988 CD-Album PB runs 4:33min and it starts with the melodic keyboard-sound. The "new" 2-LP-Set version starts a little differently because accompanied to the melodic keyboard-sound i can hear a saxophone very clearly. Getting to the end of both live-versions the saxophone-part joins in again. I don´t know, if it is very remarkable for an exact different version, but there is no sax on the beginning of the CD-version song. :think
I don´t know the exact running time of the vinyl-version. :think
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On the 1988 CD-Album PB runs 4:33min and it starts with the melodic keyboard-sound. The "new" 2-LP-Set version starts a little differently because accompanied to the melodic keyboard-sound i can hear a saxophone very clearly.
I don´t know the exact running time of the vinyl-version. :think
it's a complete different version
1988 CD was Paris june 20, 1983
2002 vinyl is London july 22, 1983
https://youtu.be/yF0ZQHlVNF0
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OK, thank you. That is important to know. So those two versions can be classified exactly.
Also interesting to have some more music-historical facts on the "new" used material for the 2-LP-Set. That is my opinion only, but that whole thing, the LP-production, can be more trustworthy to all DS and MK-Fans and collectionists, if the producer of such a product inform the purchasers more exactely about the used different musical material on labels, backcovers or booklets.
The cover-layout with the inscriptions are overtaken from the old 1988 layout from the CD-Album backcover.
More correctly it should be read: (an example from my side only)
Telegraph Road - Alternate Studio-Acetate-Version, Twisting By The Pool - Original EP-record version, Sultans Of Swing - Original Album Version, Brothers In Arms - Long Edit Version or something like that.
To my opinion, Portobello Belle - Live alternative version is the one and only track, which is newly credited in a correct way on labels and backcover.
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I have a scratch on firstTR verse, and Aurélien Brusset has too
should be a vinyls serie that are unperfect.. ? :think
last guitar lick is obvioulsy Hal
the mix sound a little bit raw. so it should be the acetate with a fade in ? :think
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Hello JF.
My copy is pristine and it has no clear damages on the record-surface. The sound is very good and dynamic on my Hi-Fi-Systems. Yes, according to the manufacturing pressing plant called GZ-Media, it is known in the record-collectors-community, that this pressing plant produces really often very faulty records. The production-control is not really perfect, but to my opinion they are learning more and more to produce pristine records. Some other pressing-plants like Pallas (Germany), Optimal-Media (Germany), RTI Technologies (USA), or Music on vinyl (Netherlands) have a higher level on quality-control.
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can you confirm if Twisting By The Pool is remix on vinyl? And Brothers In Arms edit? Is longer than 1988 edit?
I confirm BIA is longer than 1988 edit
the guitar lick during intro which was cut in 1988 is present again
it seems they took the single edit, and not the special edit that was made for the comp in 1988
regarding all little differences on this whole edition, it seems they don't have no longer the complete master of the 1988 comp, so they had to search again for each master of each song, and they did some mistakes by not taking exactly the same masters, especially for PB, Twisting, TR, BIA, and even Sultans on streaming platforms...
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It is getting more and more problematic, to detect all known versions, also for MK or his people, who are involved in record-producing or record-manufacturing.
Other example the song Money for Nothing: but there are some known different versions in duration only. Maybe MK has also totally different arranged versions on his reels in his vault.
MFN Extended Version - 8:24min Included on the CD-Album Version of BIA and on the Vinyl-12-Inch Maxi-Single Version
MFN LP-Version - 7:04min Included on the LP-Version of BIA and on the US-Promo 3-Track Vinyl version
MFN (Long Edit )Single-Version - 4:38min Included on the original 7-Inch single version and on the US-Promo-3-Track vinyl version
MFN (Edit) Single-Version - 4:05min, Included on the original 1988 LP and CD-Albums, on the US-Promo 3-Track vinyl version, on the 2-Track CD-Single from 1988 and on the 7-Inch 1988 single from Holland.
So that is a little example by my side, how many durations are available of songs. Maybe there is something to discover new, if MK or the other record-producing-people discover other variants in duration or in composition. I hope so. :think
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So, we have:
1 - Sultans Of Swing (alternate post-album single version)
2 - New Portobello Belle live from 1983/07/22
3 - Twisting By The Pool EP original version (not 1988 remix)
4 - Telegraph Road (acetate version; 1 - no intro 2 - first piano notes one octave up from studio version 3- final part with different mix and without fade out)
5 - Brothers In Arms (NEW edit version, 10 seconds longer)
On vinyl Sultans Of Swing is album version.
:thumbsup
I am delighted with the alternative version of Sultans Of Swing. Sounds more raw.
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I am listening to the vinyl right now
I confirm : Sultans is the album version on the vinyl !
so the single version is only avalaible on streaming platforms !
what are they doing ??!!!
I agree : it is very very very amateurish.... :disbelief
can you confirm if Twisting By The Pool is remix on vinyl? And Brothers In Arms edit? Is longer than 1988 edit?
Yes. Brothers In Arms 1988 time: 4.48
2022 time: 4.58
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"regarding all little differences on this whole edition, it seems they don't have no longer the complete master of the 1988 comp, so they had to search again for each master of each song, and they did some mistakes by not taking exactly the same masters, especially for PB, Twisting, TR, BIA, and even Sultans on streaming platforms"
Exactly! It is very possible.
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This unfaded TR it is NOT the one from the acetate mentioned by Mimmo.
Actually this is weirda this TR, if you listen carefully more or less from 11.30 changes... I thought this Was a mistake, that someone forgot to check the end, but considering that the song kinds of change, now I think that is done on purpose, and that makes it even more weirdest.
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can you confirm if Twisting By The Pool is remix on vinyl? And Brothers In Arms edit? Is longer than 1988 edit?
I confirm BIA is longer than 1988 edit
the guitar lick during intro which was cut in 1988 is present again
it seems they took the single edit, and not the special edit that was made for the comp in 1988
regarding all little differences on this whole edition, it seems they don't have no longer the complete master of the 1988 comp, so they had to search again for each master of each song, and they did some mistakes by not taking exactly the same masters, especially for PB, Twisting, TR, BIA, and even Sultans on streaming platforms...
Brothers In Arms single edit is 6:00 on 7" (see Discogs). So, 1988 and 2022 are both special edits?
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Guy is mixing the Atmos version so, maybe we end having another different version of the compilation?
This sounds promising.
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Sultans Of Swing 2022:
GF:
It is the Single version recorded at Pathway studios on 8 track on April 16th 1978. Engineered by Chas Herrington who went on to become the band’s LD.
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Well, to me They have no clue. The company wants (has to) cash in. That is all that matters.
But there is no proper archive. The master tapes are spread all over the world.
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You all seem surprised? Gave up a long time ago on this legacy abuse. Sigh....
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OK, now the record is available. Maybe some listeners, which are not die hard fans, like us, doesn´t recognize such musically details on the songs, they are more happy to have a new vinyl-set with DS songs, more superficial spoken by myself. :think
But how does it works correctly, such a record-production process ?? Which persones were responsible for that compilation in the past and today ? MK himself, the record-company, the management ???
According to that new-edition of MFN, which persons are able to get the mastertapes and to check them out, the acetate-records for the production process. ? Who made the desicions wich song in which variant is suitable for the record ?? OK, we all knew Bob Ludwig and Bernie Grundman from the mastering and from the laquer-cut processes.
Can this new release be valued as a big mistake of less planned record-producing, record-compiling or something like that ?? :think :think
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I find it hard to believe that they would have lost the master for the 1988 release : after all, the whole catalogue was remastered and reissued on CD in 1996 and MFN formed part of this; Bob Ludwig even undertook remastering duties.
So maybe someone decided to mix things up a bit and they thought they were giving us something new. I am sure JI and MK must have sanctioned things if Guy was doing a fresh remix of Portobello Belle, for whatever reason they did that.
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I find it hard to believe that they would have lost the master for the 1988 release : after all, the whole catalogue was remastered and reissued on CD in 1996 and MFN formed part of this; Bob Ludwig even undertook remastering duties.
So maybe someone decided to mix things up a bit and they thought they were giving us something new. I am sure JI and MK must have sanctioned things if Guy was doing a fresh remix of Portobello Belle, for whatever reason they did that.
Maybe JI, but I honestly believe MK doesn’t give a damn about DS anymore. He went from complete control freak to completely uninterested. I can’t imagine him approving the TR mix.
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Regarding Sultans, I didn't played it myself as I don't have the vinyl yet, but someone said in the LP there is the normal studio version, and in the digital platforms there is the single version.
If this is true, this is so rare...
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Regarding Sultans, I didn't played it myself as I don't have the vinyl yet, but someone said in the LP there is the normal studio version, and in the digital platforms there is the single version.
If this is true, this is so rare...
Yes I confirm it's the album version on the vinyl
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But how does it works correctly, such a record-production process ?? Which persones were responsible for that compilation in the past and today ? MK himself, the record-company, the management ???
I remember a Mark's interview back in 1988 : he said he was very involved in the MFN comp, meaning mixing, etc...
I think he didn't like his voice on the twisting by the pool original version, so he decided to remix it for example. same for Portobello Belle where he did some vocal edits. and on TR, he burried some Hal's parts in the mix, because he was a little bit out of tune (during the slow part).
so, Mark was very concerned by the original 1988 MFN Comp...
... but obviously not for this reedition :lol
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I honestly believe MK doesn’t give a damn about DS anymore. He went from complete control freak to completely uninterested.
OK I can understand why he is no more interested in DS back catalogue
But PLEASE why doesn't he let John and Guy take the business and release some stuff that will make money for sure, and that will please the fans.
He doesn't give a damn about it, but he still wants to have the final words about it... :disbelief
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Regarding Sultans, I didn't played it myself as I don't have the vinyl yet, but someone said in the LP there is the normal studio version, and in the digital platforms there is the single version.
If this is true, this is so rare...
Yes I confirm it's the album version on the vinyl
And what about Twisting, is the 83 or 88 version on the LP?
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I honestly believe MK doesn’t give a damn about DS anymore. He went from complete control freak to completely uninterested.
OK I can understand why he is no more interested in DS back catalogue
But PLEASE why doesn't he let John and Guy take the business and release some stuff that will make money for sure, and that will please the fans.
He doesn't give a damn about it, but he still wants to have the final words about it... :disbelief
Maybe that's happening and we don't know. Guy says there are projects eating their time that he can't say ..
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Fact, the ending of Telegraph Road is very strange :hmm I think the bass line can be heard more.
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Fact, the ending of Telegraph Road is very strange :hmm I think the bass line can be heard more.
yes indeed. simply because it's another mix than the final one that ended on the album
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Regarding Sultans, I didn't played it myself as I don't have the vinyl yet, but someone said in the LP there is the normal studio version, and in the digital platforms there is the single version.
If this is true, this is so rare...
Yes I confirm it's the album version on the vinyl
And what about Twisting, is the 83 or 88 version on the LP?
it's the 83 mix on the LP
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Regarding Sultans, I didn't played it myself as I don't have the vinyl yet, but someone said in the LP there is the normal studio version, and in the digital platforms there is the single version.
If this is true, this is so rare...
Yes I confirm it's the album version on the vinyl
And what about Twisting, is the 83 or 88 version on the LP?
it's the 83 mix on the LP
Thank you!
So, the only difference between the LP and the streaming is Sultans...
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A beautiful difference:)
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There is no correction on Money For Nothing 2022 edition?
It's easy to change songs names, add "single edition", or "acetate version", etc...
No changes on streamable material?
No new vinyl edition with corrected info?
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There is no correction on Money For Nothing 2022 edition?
It's easy to change songs names, add "single edition", or "acetate version", etc...
No changes on streamable material?
No new vinyl edition with corrected info?
I guess it would cost money to fix, and they can't be bothered.
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This Sultans version sounds unfinished. Like a demo. Don't like it at all.
I haven't listened to the whole album yet. Will do later tonight.
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I haven't bothered comparing TR with other versions, but any studio version feels so flat and lifeless, and I never understood why Mark's vocals are placed so far back in the mix.
I have only streamed the album via Tidal (in CD quality), but I don't any reason to buy this in physical format. Again, what a strange choice by the label to re-release this.
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I've bought the original edition on CD secondhand for 3 quid Inc postage. My Dad had the cassette which got chewed up and have some fond memories of TR and other tunes. Maybe I'll get the new vinyl if it turns up very cheap.
Anyway, interesting comparison here of the dynamic details of each edition:
https://magicvinyldigital.net/2022/06/18/dire-straits-money-for-nothing-review-lp-cd-qobuz-1988-remastered-2022/
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Thanks. Every time they remaster these things they make them sound worse.
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It makes me sad that it turns out to be possible to destroy wonderfully recorded music by taking out almost all of the dynamics in the (re)mastering process. Just look at that wave form analysis of the 2022 digital release. What the heck were they thinking?
It is a real shame Mark's music gets mistreated by applying horrific amounts of compression.
Just cant see the point of putting out a hi-res file (as if sound quality is important) while at the same time trying very hard to sabotage the sound quality with brick wall dynamics.
Why? I just can't understand, very frustrating en disappointing.
On the other hand, I should have known better. Most MK solo albums could benefit from a little more dynamics imho, however Miles Showel of course used more compression on the remasters instead of less.
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I suppose the proof is really in the listening and how much you enjoy it rather than a Web analysis, but interesting all the same
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Interesting to see the difference between the old 1988 CD-Album and the 1996 Re-mastered Edition. OMG. For that test he also should use the japanese CD-Album and the Japanese Vinyl-Album. Maybe these two editions offer also good results in such a test.
In Germany we say: "Verschlimmbesserung". OK, to make something better, here the re-mastered edition, but that process does not offer a better result. The thaught was noble, but the process and the results are even worse.
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So, we have:
1 - Sultans Of Swing (alternate post-album single version)
2 - New Portobello Belle live from 1983/07/22
3 - Twisting By The Pool EP original version (not 1988 remix)
4 - Telegraph Road (¿acetate version?; 1 - no intro, 2 - first piano notes one octave upped from studio version/different mix, 3- final part with different mix and without fade out)
5 - Brothers In Arms (NEW edit version, 10 seconds longer)
On vinyl Sultans Of Swing is album version.
Just listening now to TR 2022. More differences, at 2'44" drums are much more present and better equalized than original version at 4'13"; different mix at some points.
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I’m pretty fussy about sound, and I don’t think (other than TR peculiarities) that the new issue sounds as bad as the dynamics analysis suggests. In fact, it’s very listenable, and on some tracks the bit of bass boost is quite welcome. If the analysis was correct, we’d be hearing distortion as the loud bits hit the buffers, and I really don’t think that’s happening. I haven’t spent time comparing umpteen versions - life’s too short - but I don’t think most listeners would be disappointed with the new release, even those, like me, with audiophile pretensions.
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I agree goon. Although I posted the article to be honest whilst there is some probable science in this, the basic art of quality here is incredibly high standard. Also, hifis have moved on a long way since 1988 and what was good then isn't necessarily good now and I'd rather have a louder record than one which looks slightly more dynamic viewed as a waveform.
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At the end of the day, all that matters is your ears, if it sounds better to YOUR ears, great, we all hear things slightly differently anyway, it's all subjective. When I listened to the remixed version of the Obscured by Clouds in the Pink Floyd Early Years box set, I was blown away, it was like hearing a brand new album, but to someone else it might have been just ok.
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I agree goon. Although I posted the article to be honest whilst there is some probable science in this, the basic art of quality here is incredibly high standard. Also, hifis have moved on a long way since 1988 and what was good then isn't necessarily good now and I'd rather have a louder record than one which looks slightly more dynamic viewed as a waveform.
Can I ask why?
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Probably because I used to dj and low volume vinyl is a killer for feedback on a loud system.
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Ok.
I guess most people wouldn’t include Telegraph Road in their DJ set.
Meanwhile, this new version squishes the dynamics that made Love Over Gold a demo disc in Hi-Fi shops for years.
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Guy on DS releases:
There is a strategy and there will be more releases.
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Hmm, ok, that is not new, because other artists and record-companies release also so called expanded editions (with bonus-tracks, mostly unreleased ones), anniversary editions and so on, and so on.
OK, let´s just wait for more DS or MK stuff, with real unreleased tracks.
This year, in the middle of July, MFSL will release the Mark Knopfler Local Hero Soundtrack-record as an audiophile vinyl-edition.
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Guy on DS releases:
There is a strategy and there will be more releases.
Yep, to rinse us fans for the same old stuff. It’s genius or money for nothing.
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What could they release more? On the night vinyl?
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What could they release more? On the night vinyl?
For example. And if we are lucky they would release it with different sources than the original, lol
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Why vinyl? I would like on CD:
8.09.1979 Boston
19.12.1980 Dortmund
26.04.1986 Sydney
I miss official concert albums from these years (79, 80-81, 85-86)
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To Jbaent and others:
Yes, OTN as a new 2-LP-Set will be pretty good, not the hybrid-source from the two concerts. Each concert at it´s own will be thrilling. But it is a personal dream by my side.
To Robson: There are various 2-CD-Sets with the Sydney Show. "Thank you Australia and New Zealand" (Pluto Records, pretty good sound but incomplete), "Australian Dream" in nice limited-edition Fold-Out-Cover (NeverEnd Records, also incomplete but good sound), "Brothers in Sydney" 2-CD-Set (Red Devil Records, very good sound and complete show WITH Ian Molly Meldrum Intro, with Press-Conference with Mark, Ed Bicknell and Molly Meldrum, with Waltzing Mathilda-Song and MKs Donations-Speech during that show).
I prefer the two 2-LP-Set Dire Straits Down Under Vol.1 and Vol.2, (Off the shelf-records ) here you have the complete Sydney-Show on 4 Vinyl-discs in very good sound and complete)
Hmm, Boston 1979 on 1-CD is also pretty good, currently a little difficult to get (I think there is no Boston on Vinyl currently available, but who know´s)
Dortmund 1980 is not so difficult to grab as CD-Album.
To me personally i value that Sydney-show as complete one, if the spoken intro is included, hosted by Ian Molly Meldrum, with the traditional Autralian folk song Waltzing Mathilda, and with the donation-speech of Australias health-minister and mark, and of course, with the press-conference with Mark, Ed and Molly Meldrum, according to the 1986 radio and TV-transfer from OZ and NZ.
Ian "Molly" Meldrum was a famous Australian Radio-Personality and music-journalist in that time.
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What could they release more? On the night vinyl?
At this point, and after the absolute mess that was this last release, I just wish they would never touch the DS catalogue again. If they actually cared about fans they would release it with a 1992 version of Tunnel Of Love, Sultans of Swing, When It Comes To You or Planet Of New Orleans. But I can totally see them butchering You and Your Friend with an "alternate ending" or calling it "live" when it's a studio version.
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The original 1988 Telegraph Road remix is now on Spotify... well I'm listening to it anyway right now!
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So have they removed the new mix with the ending?
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So have they removed the new mix with the ending?
Yes. Now Sultans Of Swing is album version, and Twisting by the Pool is remixed version! All in order!
The 1988 vs 2022 version has two natural changes now: New announced PB alternate live take and BIA new edit version 10 seconds longer.
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Never played the new 2lp, does it have the unfaded TR?
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Never played the new 2lp, does it have the unfaded TR?
yes my 2 LP has the unfaded TR
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The Dolby Atmos version is now up on Apple Music. Guy kinda promised it but it doesn't have the unfaded Portobello Belle. Instead it now has the live version of Telegraph Road. :smack I'm not really a fan of Atmos mixes in general and don't see the value in these mixes either. Prefer the originals much more.
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The Dolby Atmos version is now up on Apple Music. Guy kinda promised it but it doesn't have the unfaded Portobello Belle. Instead it now has the live version of Telegraph Road. :smack I'm not really a fan of Atmos mixes in general and don't see the value in these mixes either. Prefer the originals much more.
Those mixes need a player and a speaker that can take all the advantage of Atmos, which is a new kind of surround thing, more like real space sound or something similar, if you listen to it on normal speakers or normal headphones, there is not much difference, which makes this thing kind of dumb, as I bet not much people are going to buy sounds bars or special speakers to listen atmos nowadays...
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I'm thinking about concert from Paris on June 20, 1983. Portobello Belle version is on the 1988 compilation album. But the concert was not recorded. There is no soundboard version. I wonder if there are more songs from this concert and why we only know Portobello Belle :think
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I'm thinking about concert from Paris on June 20, 1983. Portobello Belle version is on the 1988 compilation album. But the concert was not recorded. There is no soundboard version. I wonder if there are more songs from this concert and why we only know Portobello Belle :think
Are you sure the show wasn't recorded ?
I heard that they recorded several shows between june and july 1983, because they already had the live album in mind
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Possibly, but I haven't found any information about recording a concert from Paris. Only Hammersmith Odeon London 22 & 23 July 1983.
But in the booklet of the Money For Nothing album it also says June.
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There is information somewhere, either here or over at On Every Bootleg that compares an audience recording from Paris with the soundboard version on the MFN compilation, which confirms that the version on the old MFN compilation is actually from Paris.
So at least one show from there was recorded professionally we can assume with reasonable confidence.
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There is information somewhere, either here or over at On Every Bootleg that compares an audience recording from Paris with the soundboard version on the MFN compilation, which confirms that the version on the old MFN compilation is actually from Paris.
So at least one show from there was recorded professionally we can assume with reasonable confidence.
Thread here https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=6098.msg120227#msg120227
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Never played the new 2lp, does it have the unfaded TR?
yes my 2 LP has the unfaded TR
Does anyone know the barcode of the “wrong” release, ie with the dodgy telegraph road and single version of sultans? There’s a couple of vinyl shops near me, might as well see if I can bag a collectors item!
Thanks!
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Never played the new 2lp, does it have the unfaded TR?
yes my 2 LP has the unfaded TR
Does anyone know the barcode of the “wrong” release, ie with the dodgy telegraph road and single version of sultans? There’s a couple of vinyl shops near me, might as well see if I can bag a collectors item!
Thanks!
The single version of Sultans is NOT in the lps, it's the normal one.
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That’s a shame!
I thought the single version of sultans enhanced the re-release, but now back to “normal”.
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That’s a shame!
I thought the single version of sultans enhanced the re-release, but now back to “normal”.
That was only in streaming, and in the beginning. Now the streaming version is also corrected.
In the LP the sultans version was always the normal one, but the TR one was the unfaded studio.