A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Olaf on August 05, 2022, 03:59:23 PM
-
I don't know itff this the right place in here, but I am recently very curious about information on Holly Beth Vincent.
Did she make also with Mark back than in former days?
How did she felt about the break-up with Mrk and what did the other members feel about this lady?
Iff anyone has any information on this lady, please share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qkwgZidR_4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qkwgZidR_4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44c0qiEazkg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44c0qiEazkg)
-
It’s all there in Romeo and Juliet.
-
I find it curious that there's no recent information regarding her in the past decades. No pictures, barely any news. It's like she disappeared completely.
She was Mark's girlfriend in 1979/1980. He seemed to love her quite a lot. Then she broke up with him over the phone when they were on the North American leg of the Communique Tour. It left him completely devastated and depressed. Later, he wrote 3 songs about her and their failed relationship: Romeo and Juliet, Love Over Gold and It Never Rains.
I would love someone to interview Holly now and try and get her view on the situation and the songs Mark wrote about her.
-
Just checked and she does have an Instagram account
-
"Hand In Hand", "Solid Rock", "Angel Of Mercy"… ?
Maybe other songs.
She said this in an interview (Punk77) in 2006 :
"Pete told me you were asked to play drums for Dire Straits! How did that come about? Was this before Holly and the Italians?"
"Yes. I'm not good at chronology but yeah, it was before Holly and the Italians. Pick Withers was perfect anyway for them. He's great. As I said, Mark's and my relationship went back to when I was a teen, and first starting to play professionally [drums]. He was an influence, as was I on him."
link :
https://www.punk77.co.uk/groups/hollyandtheitalians2.htm
-
they met a first time in 1973 some years before their relationship (wich was from fall 78 to september 79)
the "trilogy" Romeo & Juliet - Love Over Gold - It never rains talks about her and their relationship.
indeed, Hand in hand and Solid rock contains also some hints about Mark's feelings regarding trhis story
even if "Where do you think you're going" was not written specially for her, when Mark sung it during the 79 fall, just after they broke up, the song had obviously a special flavour.
Paul Cumming talks about this in the Oldifield book. just before a gig (likely the Boston one on 8th september 79) Holly phoned Mark and said it was over. Cummins says that Mark sung this song on stage this evening like he never did before
I have a little theory (although not confirmed, just my imagination) : the neck lace that Mark wore in 79 could be a gift from her. Why am I thinking that ? because this neck lace appears on pictures in end 78, and disappears in autumn 79.
I summed up all these infos in my chronicle about "Romeo & Juliet" :
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/une-chanson-a-la-loupe-romeo-and-juliet-de-dire-straits/
it's in french, but with Deepl or Google, I guess you can get a good translation
-
and I forgot : "Angel of mercy" could be about her too, but on a joyfull mood
perhaps written at the beginning of their relationship (around october-november 78)
-
Her is a very short interview with Holly: https://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/video/interview-with-holly-beth-vincent-of-the-band-holly-and-nieuwsfootage/161682388 (https://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/video/interview-with-holly-beth-vincent-of-the-band-holly-and-nieuwsfootage/161682388)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSYxTqEEBZI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSYxTqEEBZI)
Indeed, there should be another interview with her, anyway I read that she was also contacted in the past by this Phil Spector chap. In the end better she did not have any contact with this man
How did Holly and the Italians get signed to Oval records of the UK? Were you seen supporting Blondie?
Mark Knopfler introduced me to Charlie Gillett [Oval], after bringing myself and my drummer [Steve] back to London from L.A. I played Mark my Italians demo while he was in LA to begin working with Bob Dylan, after Dire Straits had had hits. He wanted to hook me up with his [Marks] managers.
We opened for Blondie at the Hammersmith Odeon and I was 'discovered' by Lyn Goldsmith [photographer] she went back to N.Y. and hyped me to my soon to be manager Gary Kurfirst. [Ramones, Talking Heads, B 52's] I was also at the time being courted by all the major labels based on my live shows in clubs around London. success happened very quickly for me there. I was also approached by labels in Los Angeles, and by Phil Spector who wanted to produce me, but I already had a plan in place with Mark, and I loved London ...England... Europe... anti-capitalist I am...lol...
But anyway I am fully interested also in her story, music and so on. Listening to her music is great indeed
-
they met a first time in 1973 some years before their relationship (wich was from fall 78 to september 79)
But she said : « Mark's and my relationship went back to when I was a teen » (in 73?)
So « Where do you think you're going » could be for her
Angel Of Mercy seems to be written for a young woman
I like your blog very much ! :)
-
I wish Mark would be left by more girls if that enabled him to write all these masterpieces ;D ;D ;D. But I actually saw an interview with a songwriter from Tin Pan Alley who said he deliberately would ruin his relationships with someone just to get his writing juices going.
-
I wish Mark would be left by more girls if that enabled him to write all these masterpieces ;D ;D ;D. But I actually saw an interview with a songwriter from Tin Pan Alley who said he deliberately would ruin his relationships with someone just to get his writing juices going.
That's some psycopathic behaviour right there.
-
I wish Mark would be left by more girls if that enabled him to write all these masterpieces ;D ;D ;D. But I actually saw an interview with a songwriter from Tin Pan Alley who said he deliberately would ruin his relationships with someone just to get his writing juices going.
That's some psycopathic behaviour right there.
Yeah, I was surprised too... But these guys worked really hard on writing all these hits, they had shelves of notebooks filled with song titles (not even lyrics! just titles) and went to the office to write songs like to a regular job, so I suppose, everything that would help them in this environment would worth it.
-
I wish Mark would be left by more girls if that enabled him to write all these masterpieces ;D ;D ;D. But I actually saw an interview with a songwriter from Tin Pan Alley who said he deliberately would ruin his relationships with someone just to get his writing juices going.
That's some psycopathic behaviour right there.
Yeah, I was surprised too... But these guys worked really hard on writing all these hits, they had shelves of notebooks filled with song titles (not even lyrics! just titles) and went to the office to write songs like to a regular job, so I suppose, everything that would help them in this environment would worth it.
It’s either that or smashed out of your face on drugs to write good music. Elton John and David Bowie were at there best when they weren’t sober.
-
I wish Mark would be left by more girls if that enabled him to write all these masterpieces ;D ;D ;D. But I actually saw an interview with a songwriter from Tin Pan Alley who said he deliberately would ruin his relationships with someone just to get his writing juices going.
That's some psycopathic behaviour right there.
Yeah, I was surprised too... But these guys worked really hard on writing all these hits, they had shelves of notebooks filled with song titles (not even lyrics! just titles) and went to the office to write songs like to a regular job, so I suppose, everything that would help them in this environment would worth it.
It’s either that or smashed out of your face on drugs to write good music. Elton John and David Bowie were at there best when they weren’t sober.
Exactly! I wonder though how a millionaire like Mark could make himself uncomfortable... Probably by going on a long-ass tour lol :lol :lol :lol
-
This thread has made me think a bit of an interview with the English singer Lily Allen who is notorious for writing very personal, down to earth songs about everyday life.
She said once that if she ever broke up with a guy he would be super nice to her because he knew he’d end up in a song if he wasn’t…..
-
they met a first time in 1973 some years before their relationship (wich was from fall 78 to september 79)
But she said : « Mark's and my relationship went back to when I was a teen » (in 73?)
So « Where do you think you're going » could be for her
Angel Of Mercy seems to be written for a young woman
I like your blog very much ! :)
thank you :)
yes it's strange because article on Jackie Badger's blog dont talk about a relationship in 73, only that they met.
and in 73, I think that Mark was in divorcing with Kathy White. it's quoted in the Oldfield book, it was at the same time Mark played with Brewers droop
maybe Holly mixed things up between their first meeting, and their real relationship ? :think
-
I wish Mark would be left by more girls if that enabled him to write all these masterpieces ;D ;D ;D . But I actually saw an interview with a songwriter from Tin Pan Alley who said he deliberately would ruin his relationships with someone just to get his writing juices going.
That's some psycopathic behaviour right there.
Yeah, I was surprised too... But these guys worked really hard on writing all these hits, they had shelves of notebooks filled with song titles (not even lyrics! just titles) and went to the office to write songs like to a regular job, so I suppose, everything that would help them in this environment would worth it.
It’s either that or smashed out of your face on drugs to write good music. Elton John and David Bowie were at there best when they weren’t sober.
Exactly! I wonder though how a millionaire like Mark could make himself uncomfortable... Probably by going on a long-ass tour lol :lol :lol :lol
That's why so many of his early songs feel so strong, to me at least. There's so much personal experience invested in them. His solo work often feels like summaries of books and articles ... Oh, wait.
-
Are you sure? There are more personal and autobiographical stories on the solo albums. But Mark is a different person today and writes songs differently, that's natural.
-
yes it's strange because article on Jackie Badger's blog dont talk about a relationship in 73, only that they met.
« Mark Knopfler was one of them, we could tell he was good, but we didn't think he was for us, although he took Holly in a big way. »
These are personal things she already says too much.
In the second part of the interview, Holly says: Mark Knopfler introduced me to Charlie Gillett [Oval], after bringing myself and my drummer [Steve] back to London from L.A.
I find it strange that she follows him to London if they have seen each other just once.
-
Are you sure?
Yes ;D
There are more personal and autobiographical stories on the solo albums.
Quantity doesn't trump quality (quality meaning my subjective, personal preference). I feel the earlier songs have more passion and immediacy. They hit harder.
But Mark is a different person today and writes songs differently, that's natural.
Of course. Unfortunately that version of Mark the artist doesn't quite crank my tractor.
-
Life would be beautiful if we all liked the same thing. Or maybe life would be boring if we all liked the same thing:)
-
Life would be beautiful if we all liked the same thing. Or maybe life would be boring if we all liked the same thing:)
Yes, life would be boring if we all liked the same thing but lIfe would be more beautiful if we tried to understand each other.
-
:thumbsup It's true.
-
Her is a very short interview with Holly: https://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/video/interview-with-holly-beth-vincent-of-the-band-holly-and-nieuwsfootage/161682388 (https://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/video/interview-with-holly-beth-vincent-of-the-band-holly-and-nieuwsfootage/161682388)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSYxTqEEBZI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSYxTqEEBZI)
Indeed, there should be another interview with her, anyway I read that she was also contacted in the past by this Phil Spector chap. In the end better she did not have any contact with this man
How did Holly and the Italians get signed to Oval records of the UK? Were you seen supporting Blondie?
Mark Knopfler introduced me to Charlie Gillett [Oval], after bringing myself and my drummer [Steve] back to London from L.A. I played Mark my Italians demo while he was in LA to begin working with Bob Dylan, after Dire Straits had had hits. He wanted to hook me up with his [Marks] managers.
We opened for Blondie at the Hammersmith Odeon and I was 'discovered' by Lyn Goldsmith [photographer] she went back to N.Y. and hyped me to my soon to be manager Gary Kurfirst. [Ramones, Talking Heads, B 52's] I was also at the time being courted by all the major labels based on my live shows in clubs around London. success happened very quickly for me there. I was also approached by labels in Los Angeles, and by Phil Spector who wanted to produce me, but I already had a plan in place with Mark, and I loved London ...England... Europe... anti-capitalist I am...lol...
But anyway I am fully interested also in her story, music and so on. Listening to her music is great indeed
really like this love letter song...
-
Her is a very short interview with Holly: https://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/video/interview-with-holly-beth-vincent-of-the-band-holly-and-nieuwsfootage/161682388 (https://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/video/interview-with-holly-beth-vincent-of-the-band-holly-and-nieuwsfootage/161682388)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSYxTqEEBZI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSYxTqEEBZI)
Indeed, there should be another interview with her, anyway I read that she was also contacted in the past by this Phil Spector chap. In the end better she did not have any contact with this man
How did Holly and the Italians get signed to Oval records of the UK? Were you seen supporting Blondie?
Mark Knopfler introduced me to Charlie Gillett [Oval], after bringing myself and my drummer [Steve] back to London from L.A. I played Mark my Italians demo while he was in LA to begin working with Bob Dylan, after Dire Straits had had hits. He wanted to hook me up with his [Marks] managers.
We opened for Blondie at the Hammersmith Odeon and I was 'discovered' by Lyn Goldsmith [photographer] she went back to N.Y. and hyped me to my soon to be manager Gary Kurfirst. [Ramones, Talking Heads, B 52's] I was also at the time being courted by all the major labels based on my live shows in clubs around London. success happened very quickly for me there. I was also approached by labels in Los Angeles, and by Phil Spector who wanted to produce me, but I already had a plan in place with Mark, and I loved London ...England... Europe... anti-capitalist I am...lol...
But anyway I am fully interested also in her story, music and so on. Listening to her music is great indeed
very nice find that (very short) interview. i can FULLY understand why mark was so smitten with her.
anyone found anything recent on her?
bizarre that no one went looking for her, consindering the huge success of the songs she inspired...
-
very nice find that (very short) interview. i can FULLY understand why mark was so smitten with her.
anyone found anything recent on her?
bizarre that no one went looking for her, consindering the huge success of the songs she inspired...
2018, she explains how she broke her leg on a staircase just before a concert (no light?) :think
https://punkgirldiaries.com/holly-beth-vincent-the-interview/