A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: 3Strats on April 29, 2023, 10:29:38 AM
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I've posted this here as it doesn't relate to the musical.
A nice article on BBC Breakfast TV at around 8.30 this morning ( if you can get it in the iPlayer)
The report was about the 40th anniversary of the Local Hero film and included a short chat with Peter Riegert
and up to date footage of Pennan.
It even ended with a current shot of the phone box with the phone ringing ... obviously done by a fan. :)
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Great spot, that’s a lovely little news report!
I must head over to Pennan one of these days…
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Thanks 3Strats! It was a nice article, but the music was hardly mentioned and MK not at all! :smack
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I started to write an article about the soundtrack, but I have a lot to say and it's long...
I hope I can publish it before tomorrow (the last day to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the release... in april 83)
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There is a Local Hero Festival in Banff in May!
https://localherofestival.com/
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There is a Local Hero Festival in Banff in May!
https://localherofestival.com/
They have a special about MK. Thats nice...
A weekend of Music and Theatre featuring the Mark Knopfler soundtrack to Local Hero and the Anthem “Going Home” to his score from Local Hero – The Musical, featuring “Only Rocks and Water” We host our first Local Hero Ceilidh at the location used in the film.
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It’s not far from me but I’m not sure if I’ll go to any of it.
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phew... just in time !
here it is :
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/il-y-a-40-ans-mark-knopfler-sortait-sa-premiere-musique-de-film/
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phew... just in time !
here it is :
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/il-y-a-40-ans-mark-knopfler-sortait-sa-premiere-musique-de-film/
:thumbsup
A great introduction to MK film music.
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Well, it's not directly relevant to the post that started this discussion but It is relevant to its subject.
My question is simple: "Is 'Going Home' a happy song?"
I'm a Big fan of Knopfler's work. I first heard DS music at 12yo, and Wild Theme and Going Home has been my very favorite songs from the start.
Knowing It is from a movie named "Local Hero" that tells the story of an American oil company in intent to purchase a small town in Scotland I automatically assumed "Wild Theme" is about the difficulties and well, bad news, and "Going home" must have been the happy ending where they manage in resisting the purchase etc.
A few month ago I watched the movie for the first time (loved it, obviously), at first I was very much surprised cause it wasn't really as I imagined it would be. Later I was very confused, because to me Going Home was always a happy and energetic song but the the ending of the film doesn't align with it.
I think I found my own answer, or maybe two different answers to this question, but I'd like to hear what other fans think and feel about it. Did your journey with these two songs resemble mine?
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Well, it's not directly relevant to the post that started this discussion but It is relevant to its subject.
My question is simple: "Is 'Going Home' a happy song?"
I'm a Big fan of Knopfler's work. I first heard DS music at 12yo, and Wild Theme and Going Home has been my very favorite songs from the start.
Knowing It is from a movie named "Local Hero" that tells the story of an American oil company in intent to purchase a small town in Scotland I automatically assumed "Wild Theme" is about the difficulties and well, bad news, and "Going home" must have been the happy ending where they manage in resisting the purchase etc.
A few month ago I watched the movie for the first time (loved it, obviously), at first I was very much surprised cause it wasn't really as I imagined it would be. Later I was very confused, because to me Going Home was always a happy and energetic song but the the ending of the film doesn't align with it.
I think I found my own answer, or maybe two different answers to this question, but I'd like to hear what other fans think and feel about it. Did your journey with these two songs resemble mine?
To me, Wild theme sounds quiet, relaxing, bucolic, pastoral, rustic.... well, all that you can think at "wild nature" in my mind. And I always thought it's called that way because the music goes with wild landscapes of the highlands, but I could be wrong.
BTW, I used the song for my wedding.... and now I am divorcing... you talked about "difficulties" ? :lol :lol :lol
I agree that Going home is a bit paradoxal regarding the movie. McIntyre seems in a bad mood when he's going home. So the first part of the song fits with his mood I guess. But then, you have the second part with the ending titles which have a completely different mood, very happy, musically speaking.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I assume that the phone ringing we heard in the last shot seems to proove that Mcintyre is calling and wants to go back to Scotland... at least that's how I understand it. So, in a way, you could see it as a "happy ending" because, you can imagine that few weeks/months later, McIntyre will return to Scotland and have the life he always wanted to have... and "going home" would mean that his "real home" is now the new one, in Scotland...
English is not my native langage, so mabye I understood the movie in a wrong way... :think
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Well, it's not directly relevant to the post that started this discussion but It is relevant to its subject.
My question is simple: "Is 'Going Home' a happy song?"
I'm a Big fan of Knopfler's work. I first heard DS music at 12yo, and Wild Theme and Going Home has been my very favorite songs from the start.
Knowing It is from a movie named "Local Hero" that tells the story of an American oil company in intent to purchase a small town in Scotland I automatically assumed "Wild Theme" is about the difficulties and well, bad news, and "Going home" must have been the happy ending where they manage in resisting the purchase etc.
A few month ago I watched the movie for the first time (loved it, obviously), at first I was very much surprised cause it wasn't really as I imagined it would be. Later I was very confused, because to me Going Home was always a happy and energetic song but the the ending of the film doesn't align with it.
I think I found my own answer, or maybe two different answers to this question, but I'd like to hear what other fans think and feel about it. Did your journey with these two songs resemble mine?
Great post. I think we are going to dig too deep into it of course, as any music analysis should be, because I don't think Mark ever thought about this during the making of the soundtrack. But it's safe to say that all of Mark's music is happy, and "Going Home" is a happy song. Because Mark is an optimist, and because whatever he's doing he can't possibly escape it. Every Mark's creation ends up with this, sometimes bittersweet and melancholic, but happy feel. I'm not sure he's capable of producing an "unhappy" song at all.
To me, Going Home celebrates this bittersweetness: it's happy and major, uptempo and live, and yet melancholic and sad at the same time. A perfect tune to end a movie, a concert or what have you. Go home, enjoy some tea, listen to some music, read a book and relax, do whatever you need to do. Or, on a more spiritual level, go to your real home, do what you really need to do, and follow your dreams, follow your heart. You can write a whole book about it. Or a musical...
And don't forget, to quote somebody, that Going Home sounds like a 1000-year-old tune, which it does. And this old music, all these traditional ballads and folk songs, often evoke the same kind of emotion. And Mark channelled this through his work somehow, which is pretty remarkable. And I can tell you, only a happy song can survive 1000 years! Even if it has dark lyrics or a sad melody, it must be happy to survive.
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It was a happy song for.my wife, as when MK was playing it meant the show was about to end!
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To me, Wild theme sounds quiet, relaxing, bucolic, pastoral, rustic.... well, all that you can think at "wild nature" in my mind. And I always thought it's called that way because the music goes with wild landscapes of the highlands, but I could be wrong.
BTW, I used the song for my wedding.... and now I am divorcing... you talked about "difficulties" ? :lol :lol :lol
I agree that Going home is a bit paradoxal regarding the movie. McIntyre seems in a bad mood when he's going home. So the first part of the song fits with his mood I guess. But then, you have the second part with the ending titles which have a completely different mood, very happy, musically speaking.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I assume that the phone ringing we heard in the last shot seems to proove that Mcintyre is calling and wants to go back to Scotland... at least that's how I understand it. So, in a way, you could see it as a "happy ending" because, you can imagine that few weeks/months later, McIntyre will return to Scotland and have the life he always wanted to have... and "going home" would mean that his "real home" is now the new one, in Scotland...
English is not my native langage, so mabye I understood the movie in a wrong way... :think
I wonder what would have happen if you used Going Home instead ;)
Regarding the last phone call to the phone booth, I thought that Mac might be going back there, but something feels off.
Maybe it's because Happer was so adamant about sending him home and even promoting him. It might be hard for Mac to ignore that once he return to his normal life.
Additionally, there was a call but no one was there to answer, it is the saddest thing that could have happened. Mac finally woke up, but the life he wished for and never knew he missed is too far away. As they missed his call, would he try again or lose his momentum? I may be a bit pessimistic, but I really think it's not that easy. The movie is not happy nor sad; it's just true. And if we're being truthful, the odds are that he will lose momentum.
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Great post. I think we are going to dig too deep into it of course, as any music analysis should be, because I don't think Mark ever thought about this during the making of the soundtrack. But it's safe to say that all of Mark's music is happy, and "Going Home" is a happy song. Because Mark is an optimist, and because whatever he's doing he can't possibly escape it. Every Mark's creation ends up with this, sometimes bittersweet and melancholic, but happy feel. I'm not sure he's capable of producing an "unhappy" song at all.
To me, Going Home celebrates this bittersweetness: it's happy and major, uptempo and live, and yet melancholic and sad at the same time. A perfect tune to end a movie, a concert or what have you. Go home, enjoy some tea, listen to some music, read a book and relax, do whatever you need to do. Or, on a more spiritual level, go to your real home, do what you really need to do, and follow your dreams, follow your heart. You can write a whole book about it. Or a musical...
And don't forget, to quote somebody, that Going Home sounds like a 1000-year-old tune, which it does. And this old music, all these traditional ballads and folk songs, often evoke the same kind of emotion. And Mark channelled this through his work somehow, which is pretty remarkable. And I can tell you, only a happy song can survive 1000 years! Even if it has dark lyrics or a sad melody, it must be happy to survive.
Of course, we'll be digging too deep, that's what this gathering is for, isn't it?
Overall, I agree with you, except for this one thing: "Knopfler isn't capable of producing an unhappy song." What about Haul Away? Hill Farmer's Blues? River of Grog?? and many more..
Some have a touch of optimism, but not all of them. I don't hear it anyway.
However, I do agree about Going Home itself. After a few more listens, I heard the bittersweetness and, to be more exact, the sense of missing opportunity. As I mentioned earlier, there's something very truthful here. It's not this or that, it is what it is.
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Here are my own two answers:
1. This one is similar to your answers - the question sucks. Because it is not a binary question. It never is. Especially with Knopfler's work.
2. It doesn't really matter. The movie is what it is, so is the song. However, none of that matters to me. It's irrelevant. I dare say it's like my Spanish city. It looks so pretty to me like it always did, as I was a kid.
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Bittersweet is the word. I remember being in tears when it was playing at the end of a show at the RAH in 2019, happy because I was with my friends, seeing my hero from a couple of feet away, sad because I kind of knew it would be the last time...
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It was a happy song for.my wife, as when MK was playing it meant the show was about to end!
:lol :lol :lol
I know that feeling !
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Overall, I agree with you, except for this one thing: "Knopfler isn't capable of producing an unhappy song." What about Haul Away? Hill Farmer's Blues? River of Grog?? and many more..
Some have a touch of optimism, but not all of them. I don't hear it anyway.
I agree. and songs about the end of his relationship with Lourdes are not happy imho. when it comes to you, fade to black, you and your friend... these songs are note very optimistic to my ears
The trilogy Romeo and Juliet / it never rains / Love over gold is not very Happy either
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Not much optimism in Sands of Nevada, broken old gambler about to die.
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Overall, I agree with you, except for this one thing: "Knopfler isn't capable of producing an unhappy song." What about Haul Away? Hill Farmer's Blues? River of Grog?? and many more..
Some have a touch of optimism, but not all of them. I don't hear it anyway.
I agree. and songs about the end of his relationship with Lourdes are not happy imho. when it comes to you, fade to black, you and your friend... these songs are note very optimistic to my ears
The trilogy Romeo and Juliet / it never rains / Love over gold is not very Happy either
Not much optimism in Sands of Nevada, broken old gambler about to die.
Come on, guys, you are talking about lyrics and/or circumstances that would lead to writing the song. But that's where optimism comes in handy. Mark's music is like, I don't know, 80% blues, and blues is nothing but a good man feeling bad. Even if the song is dark, it's still a song, an emotion that manifested itself in the form of music. To me, this is the definition of optimism. When you lose your love, when somebody dies, if you see a shitty jazz band on a rainy evening, instead of moaning and suffering, you write a song about it. And in Mark's case, a song that would give you millions and millions of pounds. Not too pessimistic, after all?
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Overall, I agree with you, except for this one thing: "Knopfler isn't capable of producing an unhappy song." What about Haul Away? Hill Farmer's Blues? River of Grog?? and many more..
Some have a touch of optimism, but not all of them. I don't hear it anyway.
I agree. and songs about the end of his relationship with Lourdes are not happy imho. when it comes to you, fade to black, you and your friend... these songs are note very optimistic to my ears
The trilogy Romeo and Juliet / it never rains / Love over gold is not very Happy either
Not much optimism in Sands of Nevada, broken old gambler about to die.
Come on, guys, you are talking about lyrics and/or circumstances that would lead to writing the song. But that's where optimism comes in handy. Mark's music is like, I don't know, 80% blues, and blues is nothing but a good man feeling bad. Even if the song is dark, it's still a song, an emotion that manifested itself in the form of music. To me, this is the definition of optimism. When you lose your love, when somebody dies, if you see a shitty jazz band on a rainy evening, instead of moaning and suffering, you write a song about it. And in Mark's case, a song that would give you millions and millions of pounds. Not too pessimistic, after all?
ah yes I understand your point of view
it means that every piece of art is optimistic, right ?
when someone writes a book, a song, a film or makes a painting, etc... even if the reason why he made it was sad, the result is something optimistic then...
I don't remember who was saying something like "love breakup makes great songs"
BTW, last song on Lou Reed's Berlin album is called "sad song", but musically I find it "happy", with bright feeling and it ends on a major chord
and of course there is the great parody at the end of Monty Python "life's of Brian" film. Even if you are crucified, you can "look at the bright side of life" !
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I saw Lou Reed perform the whole Berlin album live, Sad Song had a children's choir on stage, it was all very happy. :)
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Come on, guys, you are talking about lyrics and/or circumstances that would lead to writing the song. But that's where optimism comes in handy. Mark's music is like, I don't know, 80% blues, and blues is nothing but a good man feeling bad. Even if the song is dark, it's still a song, an emotion that manifested itself in the form of music. To me, this is the definition of optimism. When you lose your love, when somebody dies, if you see a shitty jazz band on a rainy evening, instead of moaning and suffering, you write a song about it. And in Mark's case, a song that would give you millions and millions of pounds. Not too pessimistic, after all?
ah yes I understand your point of view
it means that every piece of art is optimistic, right ?
when someone writes a book, a song, a film or makes a painting, etc... even if the reason why he made it was sad, the result is something optimistic then...
I don't remember who was saying something like "love breakup makes great songs"
BTW, last song on Lou Reed's Berlin album is called "sad song", but musically I find it "happy", with bright feeling and it ends on a major chord
and of course there is the great parody at the end of Monty Python "life's of Brian" film. Even if you are crucified, you can "look at the bright side of life" !
Yes, exactly... I find any art extremely optimistic, as it celebrates the joy of life, creation, conversation, and beauty, even if it's something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist's_Shit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist's_Shit) — it's still art, it still engages conversation, still inspires (somebody) and it's still thought-provoking. Any art has the right to exist.
As Bob Dylan put it, the ultimate goal of art is to inspire, either new art or something completely different, it doesn't matter. Or like Ray Manzarek, keyboard player of The Doors put it, "You don't make music for immortality, you make music for the moment of capturing the sheer joy of being alive on planet Earth."
Optimism sometimes is indistinguishable from being insane, much like "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", but as a way of life, I find it the only way possible that can drive people forward. For the last quote, I'll use Winston Churchill: "I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else."
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Overall, I agree with you, except for this one thing: "Knopfler isn't capable of producing an unhappy song." What about Haul Away? Hill Farmer's Blues? River of Grog?? and many more..
Some have a touch of optimism, but not all of them. I don't hear it anyway.
I agree. and songs about the end of his relationship with Lourdes are not happy imho. when it comes to you, fade to black, you and your friend... these songs are note very optimistic to my ears
The trilogy Romeo and Juliet / it never rains / Love over gold is not very Happy either
Not much optimism in Sands of Nevada, broken old gambler about to die.
Come on, guys, you are talking about lyrics and/or circumstances that would lead to writing the song. But that's where optimism comes in handy. Mark's music is like, I don't know, 80% blues, and blues is nothing but a good man feeling bad. Even if the song is dark, it's still a song, an emotion that manifested itself in the form of music. To me, this is the definition of optimism. When you lose your love, when somebody dies, if you see a shitty jazz band on a rainy evening, instead of moaning and suffering, you write a song about it. And in Mark's case, a song that would give you millions and millions of pounds. Not too pessimistic, after all?
I don't understand this answer. Are you saying that there is no such thing as an "unhappy" song at all? That just the existence of art and creation itself is happiness? If so, I feel like it's pretty much irrelevant to the question of whether "Going Home" is a happy song, because there's no such thing as an unhappy song, and we have nothing to talk about.
In my point of view, a sad song is a song that makes me feel sad or sad-like feelings. As simple as that. It can be because of the lyrics, circumstances, melody, etc. A song that delivers a sad story and emotions. Usually, when I listen to a song, I'm more emotional than rational, and I don't think about the artist writing them. I think about the protagonist in them, and I feel their emotions. And a sad, yet optimistic song might be a sad one with a happy ending, for one example. And this specific movie, I don't have a solid opinion whether it's happy, sad, neutral.. So I wanted to hear you guys :)
Anyway, as interesting as this philosophical discussion is, I feel like we're more in agreement than not since you did understand my question in a way that aligns with my meaning of a "sad song."
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I don't understand this answer. Are you saying that there is no such thing as an "unhappy" song at all? That just the existence of art and creation itself is happiness? If so, I feel like it's pretty much irrelevant to the question of whether "Going Home" is a happy song, because there's no such thing as an unhappy song, and we have nothing to talk about.
In my point of view, a sad song is a song that makes me feel sad or sad-like feelings. As simple as that. It can be because of the lyrics, circumstances, melody, etc. A song that delivers a sad story and emotions. Usually, when I listen to a song, I'm more emotional than rational, and I don't think about the artist writing them. I think about the protagonist in them, and I feel their emotions. And a sad, yet optimistic song might be a sad one with a happy ending, for one example. And this specific movie, I don't have a solid opinion whether it's happy, sad, neutral.. So I wanted to hear you guys :)
Anyway, as interesting as this philosophical discussion is, I feel like we're more in agreement than not since you did understand my question in a way that aligns with my meaning of a "sad song."
Yes, this is highly philosophical indeed, but not surprising since the subject itself is psychological and philosophical. We can take something that's famous for its sadness, like Albinoni's "Adagio in G minor", or the theme of the movie "Schindler's List", which is one of the saddest things humanity ever created, and try to analyse it. And like the war itself is probably the worst and the saddest thing humanity ever "created" as well, and still creates, in fact, war is, unfortunately, a big part of human civilisation and always will be. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's how you look at things.
World War II gave us the technology and experience to launch, and get people into space, for instance. With the same piece of wood, you can either build a frame for a masterpiece, or a handle for an axe to cut someone's head off, “To every man is given the key to the gates of heaven; the same key opens the gates of hell.”
So this is what I meant by the ultimate happiness of any piece of art, even a very sad one. It's your choice, really. It can move you to tears, and it can be sad, or dark, but no matter what your choice is, life goes on, the sun will rise and shine, there should be laughter after pain, and there should be sunshine after rain.
And at the moment, Local Hero's ending could be sad or unhappy, which I don't think happened there, just like "Schindler's List" can leave you in a sea of tears, but you need to be able to leave everything behind and keep going, and celebrate the joy of being alive on planet Earth. Everybody deserves a Christmas present as Mark sang, "Gifts for each and every one In the Ragpicker's dream", it's about dignity, it's about happiness, it's about optimism in the best sense of the word.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=057A1RdssoU
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A very interesting discussion. Much depends on our attitude. How much optimism, how much pessimism in us? Is Mark an optimist? I don't know. But many of his songs are sad. Often the joyful and optimistic ones also sound reflective. Maybe MK's voice makes this sad stories.
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"Everybody deserves a Christmas present as Mark sang, "Gifts for each and every one In the Ragpicker's dream", it's about dignity, it's about happiness, it's about optimism in the best sense of the word"
Beautiful comment. Dignity often returns in MK songs, even as simple as Quality Shoe.
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And at the moment, Local Hero's ending could be sad or unhappy, which I don't think happened there, just like "Schindler's List" can leave you in a sea of tears, but you need to be able to leave everything behind and keep going, and celebrate the joy of being alive on planet Earth. Everybody deserves a Christmas present as Mark sang, "Gifts for each and every one In the Ragpicker's dream", it's about dignity, it's about happiness, it's about optimism in the best sense of the word.
A very interesting discussion. Much depends on our attitude. How much optimism, how much pessimism in us? Is Mark an optimist? I don't know. But many of his songs are sad. Often the joyful and optimistic ones also sound reflective. Maybe MK's voice makes this sad stories.
I can surely relate to that.
It reminds me of an interview with MK and he was asked why he's so gloomy, he said he is not, and that he is a very happy man and he just sound sad while singing :)
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I really don't know how on earth it's the first time I'm watching this interview, but he actually talks about the happiness in Going Home and that it is what the producer asked it to be (around 1:45min in). so cool!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b6ZABZ-FFU&ab_channel=MarkKnopflerTheGenius
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And at the moment, Local Hero's ending could be sad or unhappy, which I don't think happened there, just like "Schindler's List" can leave you in a sea of tears, but you need to be able to leave everything behind and keep going, and celebrate the joy of being alive on planet Earth. Everybody deserves a Christmas present as Mark sang, "Gifts for each and every one In the Ragpicker's dream", it's about dignity, it's about happiness, it's about optimism in the best sense of the word.
A very interesting discussion. Much depends on our attitude. How much optimism, how much pessimism in us? Is Mark an optimist? I don't know. But many of his songs are sad. Often the joyful and optimistic ones also sound reflective. Maybe MK's voice makes this sad stories.
I can surely relate to that.
It reminds me of an interview with MK and he was asked why he's so gloomy, he said he is not, and that he is a very happy man and he just sound sad while singing :)
Yes! Thanks for the reminder:)