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Author Topic: LP player  (Read 5215 times)

OfflineSilvertown

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LP player
« on: March 08, 2015, 02:29:02 pm »
I am planning to buy a decent LP player. Do you have any suggestions, what is good enough to give a good warm vinyl sound? Price range is so huge in turntables...

Offlinedmg

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Re: LP player
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2015, 04:01:35 pm »
Technics 1200 ones have always got a good name but I couldn't give you a specific model number.  Any vinyl listeners out there?  vgonis?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 04:07:20 pm by dmg »
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OfflineBrianT

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Re: LP player
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 06:39:22 pm »
I am planning to buy a decent LP player. Do you have any suggestions, what is good enough to give a good warm vinyl sound? Price range is so huge in turntables...

Silvertown

I spin a lot of vinyl and run a nice table at the moment. (VPI Classic c/w Transfiguration Phoenix Cart $7000.00)
So the 1st question is what the rest of setup, whats your budget?

As DMG has mentioned, the Technics SL1200 mk5 is a good entry turntable, with the right cartridge and a few mods it becomes very good.
I use one in my second system.
Another nice table is a Clearaudio Concept with the Concept MC cart. (if you have a phono preamp)

When I know more about your system, I might be able to give you more ideas.

Brian
Devialet 440PRO - Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable,
VPI Classic TurnTable c/w Transfiguration Phoenix Cart, Raysonic 168 CDP, Mac Mini Music Server,
AudioQuest Diamond USB cable, B&W 803D3 (black) Auditorium 23 Cables, Carver TX11 Tuner.

OfflineSilvertown

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Re: LP player
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2015, 07:29:22 pm »
I am planning to buy a decent LP player. Do you have any suggestions, what is good enough to give a good warm vinyl sound? Price range is so huge in turntables...


When I know more about your system, I might be able to give you more ideas.

Brian

Hi Brian and thanks for your reply (thank for dmg too)!. I have no fancy hifi in my small "listening room". I got Marantz mini system, which has integrated CD player (so I am pretty sure that there is no RIAA equalizer) and then I got Amphion Argon speakers. So I am really interested which player is good enough but not "too good" because of the other limitations of the system.

OfflineBrianT

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Re: LP player
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 12:09:04 pm »
I am planning to buy a decent LP player. Do you have any suggestions, what is good enough to give a good warm vinyl sound? Price range is so huge in turntables...


When I know more about your system, I might be able to give you more ideas.

Brian

Hi Brian and thanks for your reply (thank for dmg too)!. I have no fancy hifi in my small "listening room". I got Marantz mini system, which has integrated CD player (so I am pretty sure that there is no RIAA equalizer) and then I got Amphion Argon speakers. So I am really interested which player is good enough but not "too good" because of the other limitations of the system.

Looking at the rest of your system, I would go with a Tech SL-1200 or a Pro-ject 5.1 and as you say your Marantz will not have any RIAA built in, so you are going
to have to get a separate phone preamp Pro-ject make a great tube one, "Pro-Ject Tube Box 2" it will handle MM or MC cartridges.
Good luck with your quest, lets us know how it works out.

Brian
Devialet 440PRO - Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable,
VPI Classic TurnTable c/w Transfiguration Phoenix Cart, Raysonic 168 CDP, Mac Mini Music Server,
AudioQuest Diamond USB cable, B&W 803D3 (black) Auditorium 23 Cables, Carver TX11 Tuner.

Offlinevgonis

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Re: LP player
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2015, 11:51:33 am »
Brian hits the nail on the head. You can buy a nice turntable (I had an old belt Pioneer and replaced it a decade ago with a SL-1200 (mk2, wink!) because I have a  huge collection and needed a heavy duty machine. I also changed use a head/needle setting that is not that sensitive, because half of my collection is second hand vinyl. That being said, if you give it time and know how to check, you can find beautiful second hand turntables (belt or direct drive), at prices that you will pay for new lower end models. Project turntables are fine as well and there are editions that have USB ports. As Brian mentions, you have to check for compatibility (phono signal needs pre-amplification and many modern amplifiers do not provide a special phono input), in modern audio systems you might need an analogue to digital converter.   
Come on, it is not funny anymore.

OfflineFletch

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Re: LP player
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2015, 06:39:34 am »
You don't have to break the bank for a decent turntable, I use a second hand 80s one, and you can pick these up cheaply at your local hifi / record store... that shop that has records in the window, a dusty old man behind the counter and a sign saying "closing down sale..."
Speakers are the place to spend money and a half-decent phono amp.

I travelled through New Zealand last year and picked up a few records, including the Love Over Gold 7" Alchemy single. Because Im lazy, I had NEVER played it until last Friday (I had visited the Alchemy gallery and got inspired) - the sound blew me away!! And I have listened to this song a hundred times on cd...
It's all subjective but old vinyl can have a special warmth that hugs your heart and ears. I'll be looking out for the original Alchemy LP now, as it's the only original I don't have, pre-digital recordings.
Personally I'm not especially thrilled with new vinyl re-issues, I've been unimpressed with Pink Floyd ones, but we all hear different things. Old vinyl in decent condition, Rocks! :)
Hey, i`ve got a truffle dog - finally a song the ordinary man can relate too!

OfflineBrianT

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Re: LP player
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2015, 08:23:27 pm »
All I can say, is purchase the best turntable you can afford, the better the turntable and cartridge, the better the sound. (crap pressing still sound like crap)
My system is a little more upscale than your system,(turntable & cart 6K us) but I still think a Technics SL1200 will work to for you for many years.
Good luck on your choice, vinyl is so nice when you get a good pressing.
I just spent the afternoon listing to BIA MOFI, all I can say is WOW.
I will leave my comments in the post Vinyl Brothers in Arms later in the week. Off to work now.

BTW. Silvertown where do you live, If in Canada I have a SL1200 mk5 I could loan you for a few months
to let you figure out if vinyl is for you.

Brian
Devialet 440PRO - Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable,
VPI Classic TurnTable c/w Transfiguration Phoenix Cart, Raysonic 168 CDP, Mac Mini Music Server,
AudioQuest Diamond USB cable, B&W 803D3 (black) Auditorium 23 Cables, Carver TX11 Tuner.

OfflineSilvertown

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Re: LP player
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2015, 03:15:28 pm »

BTW. Silvertown where do you live, If in Canada I have a SL1200 mk5 I could loan you for a few months
to let you figure out if vinyl is for you.

Brian

Thank you so much for your offer! However, I live in Europe :) I haven´t have time to look LP players lately, but will do it soon. Technics could be fine, I will check if there is used ones available.

OfflineFletch

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Re: LP player
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2015, 12:55:41 am »
Brian you've got me interested. I'm already in heaven with my $400 second hand 80s turntable and new needle of course.... What is the science of "better" cartridges? Do you think I would hear significant upgrade?
I'm wary of listening to hifi people in shops, they once told me they'd never sell me speaker cable at different lengths, I told them that electrons travel at nearly 3/4 the speed of light, it won't matter... To confuse the speed if sound in your room with the speed if electrons in a cable, well y'know....
But I still love hifi shops, they have old records :)
Hey, i`ve got a truffle dog - finally a song the ordinary man can relate too!

OfflineBrianT

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Re: LP player
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2015, 02:58:32 am »
Brian you've got me interested. I'm already in heaven with my $400 second hand 80s turntable and new needle of course.... What is the science of "better" cartridges? Do you think I would hear significant upgrade?
I'm wary of listening to hifi people in shops, they once told me they'd never sell me speaker cable at different lengths, I told them that electrons travel at nearly 3/4 the speed of light, it won't matter... To confuse the speed if sound in your room with the speed if electrons in a cable, well y'know....
But I still love hifi shops, they have old records :)

Fletch
I have been into to turntables and vinyl for over 45 years, my 1st turntable was a BSR with built in cart, total cost less than $16.00 usd
Since then I have have gone though 30 + turntables, I have 4 at home at the moment.
The normal rule of thumb is 2/3 of the cost for the turntable and 1/3 for the cartridge
So the last turntable I purchased was $3000.00 usd and I ran it with a $1500.00 usd cart it sounded real nice.
Then I had the chance to try it with a $3500.00 usd cart (Transfiguration Phoenix) well it brought my system up to another level.
So I would look at spending at least if not more for your cartridge, it is worth it.
If you can tell me what turntable you have, I MIGHT be able to give you some hints on what to look for.

Like you I NEVER believed that different cables matter. This weekend I had the chance to borrow a set of speaker cables
that list for $10000.00 usd, (yes ten thousand dollars) within 20 seconds of having them in my rig I was blown away with the clarity and full ness of the sound.
I had to give them back on Sunday. My speaker cables are not bad, but nothing like the one I had borrowed.

Brian

Devialet 440PRO - Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable,
VPI Classic TurnTable c/w Transfiguration Phoenix Cart, Raysonic 168 CDP, Mac Mini Music Server,
AudioQuest Diamond USB cable, B&W 803D3 (black) Auditorium 23 Cables, Carver TX11 Tuner.

OfflineFletch

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Re: LP player
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2015, 03:52:22 am »
Thanks it's an 80s Japanese brand, when I get home I'll post it up...

But I still don't get it - the needle/cartridge is a device that 'feels' the grooves and translates that info into a tiny electric signal, surely the main game is the phono amplification required and then the speakers. I spent big on speakers, and low end multi Amp (Cambridge brand I think)
I DO see how a bad cartridge will give bad results, but I like to quantify this.
It's a bit like electric guitars, people get carried away about the type of wood without realizing most of what they're hearing comes from the vibrations over the pickups and ALL the electric signals from there to the Amps speaker. The wood used is highly subjective in terms of produced sound (but not to how it feels to play)....

So yeah, I'm keen to learn more about cartridges :)
Hey, i`ve got a truffle dog - finally a song the ordinary man can relate too!

OfflineSilvertown

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Re: LP player
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2015, 08:05:15 am »
This is an interesting topic! Like we all know people have different kind of ear for listening music. Meaning that some people think that poor compressed radio sound from an old car stereo is equal good for a good hifi system produced sound. So it is difficult to think what is the equipment which is good enough for me.

Offlinedmg

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Re: LP player
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2015, 02:06:21 pm »
Interestingly there was a piece on the news last night telling us that records are now selling in much higher numbers than in recent years (20-year high) and the launch of the vinyl charts.

http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/uk-s-first-official-vinyl-charts-launch-as-vinyl-sales-soar-in-2015__8906/
"...if you don't do your twiddly bits, the world's not right for people."

OfflineBrianT

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Re: LP player
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2015, 12:42:46 am »
But I still don't get it - the needle/cartridge is a device that 'feels' the grooves and translates that info into a tiny electric signal, surely the main game is the phono amplification required and then the speakers. I spent big on speakers, and low end multi Amp (Cambridge brand I think)

So yeah, I'm keen to learn more about cartridges :)

Fletch

You are correct, the stylus does feel the groove and then translates that into a electrical signal.
This is how one retailer of cartridges defines it.
A phono cartridge is an electrical generator. The stylus , moved by the record groove, interacts either magnetically or mechanically
with some additional elements to produce an electrical analogy of the moving stylus.


As they are 4 different types of cartridges, 1) Moving Magnet 2) Moving Iron 3) Moving Coil 4) Ceramic Cartridge. and they all sound different.

The main reason that one cartridge is better than another is the type of stylus, Diamond, Ruby
There are 3 major different types of stylus tip 1) Spherical 2) Elliptical (most common) 3) Line Contact ( or variations)
The differences in the tip allow the tip to sit further in the groove puling more information out, the best type is based on a line Contact
it nearly touches the bottom of the groove.
So the more information you get from the groove the more sound you get. Deeper bass, more open high's, cleaner mids and vocals Etc.
So yes, a cartridge is a way to transfer electric current out from the groove, but a better quality cartridge gives you more information.

Hope this helps.

Brian
Devialet 440PRO - Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable,
VPI Classic TurnTable c/w Transfiguration Phoenix Cart, Raysonic 168 CDP, Mac Mini Music Server,
AudioQuest Diamond USB cable, B&W 803D3 (black) Auditorium 23 Cables, Carver TX11 Tuner.

 

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