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Author Topic: Making Movies  (Read 5172 times)

OfflineGrumpydwarf

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Re: Making Movies
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2020, 11:22:17 AM »
I remember an interview in which he specifically targeted the long outro of Why Worry as “fussing around with pretty sounds” and “nonsense”. I’m paraphrasing, but I’ll try to find that interview.


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Offlinejbaent

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Re: Making Movies
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2020, 11:25:44 AM »

Of course these long outros create ambience and gives the listener a chance to breathe a little, and generally I like that, but it can a bit excessive in Mark's case. At least there should be happening something (It Never Rains for example), not just repeating a riff or motif over and over.

I always end skipping "River towns" when the sung part ends because that endless repetition of the same melody gets me nervous. The first time I listened to it I passed all the ouutro waiting for something to happen, a guitar solo, a sax solo, a piano solo, anything, but it was an endless repetition with some sax blows here and there...
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hunter

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Re: Making Movies
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2020, 12:07:27 PM »
I remember an interview in which he specifically targeted the long outro of Why Worry as “fussing around with pretty sounds” and “nonsense”.


Sounds about right  ;D

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Making Movies
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2020, 12:19:59 PM »
I remember an interview in which he specifically targeted the long outro of Why Worry as “fussing around with pretty sounds” and “nonsense”.


Sounds about right  ;D

In case of Why Worry at least you have an extremely satisfying keyboard riff, one of the most satisfying keyboards riffs, the way it resolves and a satisfying guitar lick, makes you really want for it to never end. And also a very 80s groove :lol Songs like River Towns seems to channel the same vibe, although sax fills and repeating guitar patterns are not so satisfying, hovewer it still grooves ;D

Offlinedmg

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Re: Making Movies
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2020, 03:41:32 PM »
Missed a lot of interesting stuff here so I'll need to reply to some!

I've recently listened to Tracker album again and enjoyed it a bit more than I thought I did.  Pleasantly surprised.  River Towns was one song that didn't impress though and just went on and on, not helped by his weary vocal delivery.  On the other hand I haven't stopped listening to Laughs and Jokes since!  Copenhagen version v good.

Why Bother has never been one of my favourites personally (you'd never have guessed) but I can't deny it's a cool riff.  The only version I really enjoy is the album one and that is simply for the outro.  I think the drums are superb.

Double albums:  Privateering has just enough decent songs for a single CD IMHO.  No more. 

Ragpicker's Dream:  criminal to cut off HFB just in it's prime like that.  Not the only time Mark has done this.  I'm thinking One Song at a Time off the top of my head.  Maybe since he isn't touring again then the next album can have complete solos on it instead of having them chopped off just as they begin!

Sorry that was a bit all over the place but there were a lot of good points made in the last few posts.  :)
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OfflineRivers Of Rain

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Re: Making Movies
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2020, 08:31:12 PM »
Strangely enough I think "Hand in hand" would have been greater in Communiqué. It's like it was meant for this album musically.

I have always thought this album lacked one more song or two.

I'd never previously considered this, but maybe it would have been best if Hand In Hand had swapped albums with Portobello Belle. Hand In Hand is more of a straightforward love/break up song and therefore doesn't quite fit the story-based lyrics of the rest of the album, and as you say is probably the closest in sound to Communiqué on Making Movies. It also  By contrast, Portobello Belle has vivid lyrics rich with imagery, more like the other songs on Making Movies, and was given a more 'rocked up' arrangement in later live performances so perhaps would have been better suited to the later album’s sound and theme.

One other aspect of this album is that I sometimes wonder whether working with Bob Dylan on Slow Train Coming somehow influenced Mark's writing on Solid Rock and to a lesser extent Hand In Hand. I definitely don't think Solid Rock is a religious song, but the song's title and lyrical theme do invite comparisons to the parable of the wise and foolish builders. Hand In Hand is less obvious but I think the first and final verses have a somewhat biblical feel, specifically the 'writing on the wall' and 'forgive this dirty town' lines.

In my opinion the ideal length for an album is between 35-50 minutes, with a 'sweet spot' between 40-45 minutes - many classic albums seem to fall within this range (Dark Side of the Moon, Led Zeppelin IV and Who's Next are three that readily spring to my mind. Interestingly, the first DS album, Communiqué and Love Over Gold are all within this range too). I find anything less than 35 minutes nearly always seems too short regardless of the quality of the material. Above 50 minutes, there is a double whammy as the inclusion of filler tracks becomes more likely and it gets harder to maintain interest in the music for a longer period of time if there’s no theme or story linking the tracks. I find this becomes particularly noticeable if the weaker tracks are mostly towards the end of the album. I do think non-conceptual double albums, or albums with runtimes over 1 hour, can work, but only in specific circumstances - either for a prolific artist at the peak of their powers (Blonde On Blonde) or an artist with a wide musical palette that has songs in many different styles (Physical Graffiti). Unfortunately, the former is inherently rare and not that many artists can pull off the latter either. In general, I do think that longer albums (both in runtime and number of tracks) in the CD era have reduced the likelihood of a ‘perfect’ album with great music from start to finish.
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OfflineRobson

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Re: Making Movies
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2020, 09:02:06 PM »
"One other aspect of this album is that I sometimes wonder whether working with Bob Dylan on Slow Train Coming somehow influenced Mark's writing on Solid Rock and to a lesser extent Hand In Hand. I definitely don't think Solid Rock is a religious song, but the song's title and lyrical theme do invite comparisons to the parable of the wise and foolish builders. Hand In Hand is less obvious but I think the first and final verses have a somewhat biblical feel, specifically the 'writing on the wall' and 'forgive this dirty town' lines"

Very interesting observation.

Biblical or religious accents is a very interesting topic.


« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 09:15:04 PM by Robson »
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hunter

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Re: Making Movies
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2020, 09:26:55 PM »
A quality album with an optimum run time (40-50 mins, to me) is like eating a quality meal prepared by a good chef. The ingredients are first rate, they complete each other, and the portions are just right. You feel full afterwards, but comfortably so. "Digesting" a full-length CD album is like forcing yourself to eat more when you're full just because there is more on the table. Afterwards you feel bloated and uncomfortable.


So it's not a perfect analogy - but, something like that :)

OfflineGrumpydwarf

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Re: Making Movies
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2020, 07:58:13 AM »
Nowadays it seems that the model is more towards streaming and, in a way, more tracks in an album is also a way to ensure better probability of revenue. I’m pretty much old school since most of the time I do prefer to put on an album from start to finish.


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