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Author Topic: Question from an old DS fan  (Read 8248 times)

OfflineChrisGlastonbury

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Question from an old DS fan
« on: August 11, 2020, 10:39:10 PM »
Hi everyone,

I wandered onto this site because I have only recently started listening to MK's solo albums.

DS was the first band I ever saw, as a 14 yo, on the Brothers in Arms tour. It totally blew me away, but the (comparatively) long gap between that album and the next meant that I'd discovered heaps of other music in the meantime and I lost touch. I never stopped listening to the DS albums up to BIA, but that was where it ended. About 18 months ago I saw a copy of The Ragpicker's Dream in a charity shop for £1 and picked it up on a whim. I played it a few times and liked it, so then started getting other solo albums (so far STF, KTGC, GH and S-L) plus I finally got round to buying On Every Street and On The Night.

I'm still getting to know these albums (impressed so far with what I have heard) but was wondering what the consensus is regarding the later ones I don't have, and also how well thought of the solo stuff is compared to the DS albums. I remember reading reviews over the years and I think that reviewers have accused MK of settling for an inoffensive middle of the road career since DS split.

On another note I decided to go and see MK last year, but when the dates were announced they clashed with a holiday and my son's birthday so I missed the chance. Here's hoping I get another opportunity.

Thanks

Chris

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2020, 10:50:31 PM »
Welcome, Chris!
I belong to the portion of fans here who prefer MK's solo career to his DS period. His solo albums are full of gems. Regarding his later albums, Get Lucky seems to be a fan favourite, with Border Reiver, So Far From The Clyde, Piper To The End, etc. Privateering is one my personal favourites but it doesn't seem to be very consensual, with many of us criticizing for the excessive use of Blues. Tracker is a very good album with beautiful  melodies and lyrics. This album could be best described with a quote I read here a few days ago by another member as "a granddad sitting comfortably in his couch and playing songs on his acoustic". On Down The Road Wherever, he expanded his sound and gave snippets of jazz and funky stuff with the addittion of trumpet and the like. I believe it was well received and many fans rate it quite high in their rankings.

Give them a listen and see for yourself. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Offlineshangri la 1

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2020, 12:10:08 AM »
Welcome Chris.  :wave :thumbsup

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2020, 01:58:18 AM »
Hi everyone,

I wandered onto this site because I have only recently started listening to MK's solo albums.

DS was the first band I ever saw, as a 14 yo, on the Brothers in Arms tour. It totally blew me away, but the (comparatively) long gap between that album and the next meant that I'd discovered heaps of other music in the meantime and I lost touch. I never stopped listening to the DS albums up to BIA, but that was where it ended. About 18 months ago I saw a copy of The Ragpicker's Dream in a charity shop for £1 and picked it up on a whim. I played it a few times and liked it, so then started getting other solo albums (so far STF, KTGC, GH and S-L) plus I finally got round to buying On Every Street and On The Night.

I'm still getting to know these albums (impressed so far with what I have heard) but was wondering what the consensus is regarding the later ones I don't have, and also how well thought of the solo stuff is compared to the DS albums. I remember reading reviews over the years and I think that reviewers have accused MK of settling for an inoffensive middle of the road career since DS split.

On another note I decided to go and see MK last year, but when the dates were announced they clashed with a holiday and my son's birthday so I missed the chance. Here's hoping I get another opportunity.

Thanks

Chris

The funniest thing is that Dire Straits were less of a "band" than Mark's solo band he plays with nowadays because in the old days he had basically a benevolent dictatorship in the group and it was more "Mark Knopfler" than Mark Knopfler now with a lot of input from his band members, so my little theory is that it was his solo project all along and NOW it's a band, meaning that "inoffensive middle of the road career" probably was his ultimate goal.

With that said, and as Bob Dylan would say, Mark was a different person in DS times and wrote different music. I'll have you know that Dire Straits as a group only had 60 songs in its entire history, while Mark as a solo artist released triple the number of songs. Dire Straits discography was certainly about quality over quantity, especially considering the legendary 5-track Love Over Gold album, but it doesn't mean that now it's quantity over quality. Mark is, in my opinon, the most consistent songwriter who writes great music throughout his whole career. Everybody I can think of had their share of strange and uninspired records, but Mark... is always up to the mark.

As a guy who analysed Mark's music quite a lot, I can say that his solo stuff is far more elegant, more complex, deeper and more beautiful than his early music, but that's to be expected because the man is constantly in the process of perfecting his craft. It's just in DS times that were different times, Mark had songs that were catchy, with an accent on guitar playing because there were guitar heroes everywhere, and MK was no exception. He was in the top shape and young and created his most famous masterpieces back then. Think Brothers In Arms, Telegraph Road, Tunnel Of Love, etc.

But I mean I can't even pretend that I can compare the storytelling of Shangri-La to the lyrics from DS debut album, it's like night and day. The song like Wild West End leads to nowhere, whereas 5:15 am is a masterpiece with a story that's like watching a movie, and it's just one example. So you should definitely check out his solo music, for one thing, simply because it's far more songs to choose from, more variety, more input from other band members.

OfflineChrisGlastonbury

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2020, 12:31:23 PM »
Welcome, Chris!
I belong to the portion of fans here who prefer MK's solo career to his DS period. His solo albums are full of gems. Regarding his later albums, Get Lucky seems to be a fan favourite, with Border Reiver, So Far From The Clyde, Piper To The End, etc. Privateering is one my personal favourites but it doesn't seem to be very consensual, with many of us criticizing for the excessive use of Blues. Tracker is a very good album with beautiful  melodies and lyrics. This album could be best described with a quote I read here a few days ago by another member as "a granddad sitting comfortably in his couch and playing songs on his acoustic". On Down The Road Wherever, he expanded his sound and gave snippets of jazz and funky stuff with the addittion of trumpet and the like. I believe it was well received and many fans rate it quite high in their rankings.

Give them a listen and see for yourself. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Thanks - I will grab these others over time. Keen not to get too much at the same time for fear of burnout. So far I think that KTGC seems like the weakest of the albums I have got, hence me wondering if his output had deteriorated. But I like the descriptions of the others.

Chris

OfflineChrisGlastonbury

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2020, 12:42:49 PM »

The funniest thing is that Dire Straits were less of a "band" than Mark's solo band he plays with nowadays because in the old days he had basically a benevolent dictatorship in the group and it was more "Mark Knopfler" than Mark Knopfler now with a lot of input from his band members, so my little theory is that it was his solo project all along and NOW it's a band, meaning that "inoffensive middle of the road career" probably was his ultimate goal.

With that said, and as Bob Dylan would say, Mark was a different person in DS times and wrote different music. I'll have you know that Dire Straits as a group only had 60 songs in its entire history, while Mark as a solo artist released triple the number of songs. Dire Straits discography was certainly about quality over quantity, especially considering the legendary 5-track Love Over Gold album, but it doesn't mean that now it's quantity over quality. Mark is, in my opinon, the most consistent songwriter who writes great music throughout his whole career. Everybody I can think of had their share of strange and uninspired records, but Mark... is always up to the mark.

As a guy who analysed Mark's music quite a lot, I can say that his solo stuff is far more elegant, more complex, deeper and more beautiful than his early music, but that's to be expected because the man is constantly in the process of perfecting his craft. It's just in DS times that were different times, Mark had songs that were catchy, with an accent on guitar playing because there were guitar heroes everywhere, and MK was no exception. He was in the top shape and young and created his most famous masterpieces back then. Think Brothers In Arms, Telegraph Road, Tunnel Of Love, etc.

But I mean I can't even pretend that I can compare the storytelling of Shangri-La to the lyrics from DS debut album, it's like night and day. The song like Wild West End leads to nowhere, whereas 5:15 am is a masterpiece with a story that's like watching a movie, and it's just one example. So you should definitely check out his solo music, for one thing, simply because it's far more songs to choose from, more variety, more input from other band members.

Thanks for the reply.

I read an interview with MK recently (can't recall when it was from) and he was saying that he found Telegraph Road to be plodding and dull! It's one of my favourite DS tracks, so I was a bit put off by that!

But it's interesting to think of DS as a solo project. It sounds like he's done everything he can to cut those ties (including not turning up to the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame induction, which seemed churlish). I am trying to listen to the solo albums without any baggage (like asking 'is this as good as a DS album?!?) but it's hard. And of course the other thing is that DS were my teenage band. In my 40s now I don't get so obsessed as I did back then, which is probably a good thing.

Chris

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2020, 12:58:13 PM »
Thanks for the reply.

I read an interview with MK recently (can't recall when it was from) and he was saying that he found Telegraph Road to be plodding and dull! It's one of my favourite DS tracks, so I was a bit put off by that!

But it's interesting to think of DS as a solo project. It sounds like he's done everything he can to cut those ties (including not turning up to the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame induction, which seemed churlish). I am trying to listen to the solo albums without any baggage (like asking 'is this as good as a DS album?!?) but it's hard. And of course the other thing is that DS were my teenage band. In my 40s now I don't get so obsessed as I did back then, which is probably a good thing.

Chris

In that interview Mark meant that they worked so hard on the studio version of Telegraph Road that it kind of sucked the life out of it (hence "dull"), he was comparing music from the 60s that was basically recorded live in one take versus tracks like his own Telegraph Road, that was painstakingly created in the studio with weeks and weeks of work that went into it. And after all this hard work, it sounds dull. That is, dull compared to, say, Beatles' debut album, which was recorded completely live in 12 hours or so. I know many people actually prefer the studio version of Telegraph Road, but I agree with Mark, that it sounds dull. The Alchemy version has more life in the song than ever. So he wasn't talking about the song itself, but about the production of it.

OfflinePottel

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2020, 01:22:00 PM »
Welcome, Chris!
I belong to the portion of fans here who prefer MK's solo career to his DS period. His solo albums are full of gems. Regarding his later albums, Get Lucky seems to be a fan favourite, with Border Reiver, So Far From The Clyde, Piper To The End, etc. Privateering is one my personal favourites but it doesn't seem to be very consensual, with many of us criticizing for the excessive use of Blues. Tracker is a very good album with beautiful  melodies and lyrics. This album could be best described with a quote I read here a few days ago by another member as "a granddad sitting comfortably in his couch and playing songs on his acoustic". On Down The Road Wherever, he expanded his sound and gave snippets of jazz and funky stuff with the addittion of trumpet and the like. I believe it was well received and many fans rate it quite high in their rankings.

Give them a listen and see for yourself. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Thanks - I will grab these others over time. Keen not to get too much at the same time for fear of burnout. So far I think that KTGC seems like the weakest of the albums I have got, hence me wondering if his output had deteriorated. But I like the descriptions of the others.

Chris
welcome chris.
and yes, i would agree that KTGC is his weakest, ever. I for one NEVER play it, and i DO play all the rest.
any Knopfler, Floyd or Dylan will do....

OfflinePottel

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2020, 01:23:02 PM »
also, if you like the live stuff, head over to the "spanish city" site and register for MK unlimited, a whole new world will open up for you.
any Knopfler, Floyd or Dylan will do....

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2020, 01:54:36 PM »
Welcome, Chris!
I belong to the portion of fans here who prefer MK's solo career to his DS period. His solo albums are full of gems. Regarding his later albums, Get Lucky seems to be a fan favourite, with Border Reiver, So Far From The Clyde, Piper To The End, etc. Privateering is one my personal favourites but it doesn't seem to be very consensual, with many of us criticizing for the excessive use of Blues. Tracker is a very good album with beautiful  melodies and lyrics. This album could be best described with a quote I read here a few days ago by another member as "a granddad sitting comfortably in his couch and playing songs on his acoustic". On Down The Road Wherever, he expanded his sound and gave snippets of jazz and funky stuff with the addittion of trumpet and the like. I believe it was well received and many fans rate it quite high in their rankings.

Give them a listen and see for yourself. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Thanks - I will grab these others over time. Keen not to get too much at the same time for fear of burnout. So far I think that KTGC seems like the weakest of the albums I have got, hence me wondering if his output had deteriorated. But I like the descriptions of the others.

Chris
welcome chris.
and yes, i would agree that KTGC is his weakest, ever. I for one NEVER play it, and i DO play all the rest.

What about Heart Full Of Holes? I remember this song made me cry and still do. "It's a wonder to me, I still don't understand, why I ever survived to be old with a heart full of holes?", I mean, wow! What about Madame Geneva's, an amazing ballad? In The Sky is an astonishingly beautiful waltz, flawlessly recorded and arranged. True Love Will Never Fade, an ultimate strumming song with a beautiful guitar solo, another waltz Scaffolder's Wife, melodic and catchy, The Fizzy And The Still is also a good number with a cool chorus. I get that it's your personal taste, but songs on that album are great. I guess it can be perceived as a weak album because it's the first album made completely in the new studio, so he went full experiment mode. To me, after Kill To Get Crimson all Mark's albums had this distinctive "British Grove Studios" sound, and he got it with this album.

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2020, 02:19:55 PM »
Welcome, Chris!
I belong to the portion of fans here who prefer MK's solo career to his DS period. His solo albums are full of gems. Regarding his later albums, Get Lucky seems to be a fan favourite, with Border Reiver, So Far From The Clyde, Piper To The End, etc. Privateering is one my personal favourites but it doesn't seem to be very consensual, with many of us criticizing for the excessive use of Blues. Tracker is a very good album with beautiful  melodies and lyrics. This album could be best described with a quote I read here a few days ago by another member as "a granddad sitting comfortably in his couch and playing songs on his acoustic". On Down The Road Wherever, he expanded his sound and gave snippets of jazz and funky stuff with the addittion of trumpet and the like. I believe it was well received and many fans rate it quite high in their rankings.

Give them a listen and see for yourself. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Thanks - I will grab these others over time. Keen not to get too much at the same time for fear of burnout. So far I think that KTGC seems like the weakest of the albums I have got, hence me wondering if his output had deteriorated. But I like the descriptions of the others.

Chris
welcome chris.
and yes, i would agree that KTGC is his weakest, ever. I for one NEVER play it, and i DO play all the rest.

What about Heart Full Of Holes? I remember this song made me cry and still do. "It's a wonder to me, I still don't understand, why I ever survived to be old with a heart full of holes?", I mean, wow! What about Madame Geneva's, an amazing ballad? In The Sky is an astonishingly beautiful waltz, flawlessly recorded and arranged. True Love Will Never Fade, an ultimate strumming song with a beautiful guitar solo, another waltz Scaffolder's Wife, melodic and catchy, The Fizzy And The Still is also a good number with a cool chorus. I get that it's your personal taste, but songs on that album are great. I guess it can be perceived as a weak album because it's the first album made completely in the new studio, so he went full experiment mode. To me, after Kill To Get Crimson all Mark's albums had this distinctive "British Grove Studios" sound, and he got it with this album.

Heart Full Of Holes really is a standout from that album but it's the arguably the only one. In The Sky has potential but never really goes anywhere and the album as a whole just feels like it never develops, it keeps lingering. It has 1 or 2 very good songs but compared to Shangri-La or Get Lucky, it really is a weak album.

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2020, 02:22:10 PM »
I love all of MKs solo albums, but, obviously, some are better than others.    My favourites have been "Tracker" and "Shangri-la" and "Ragpicker's Dream", but "Kill To Get Crimson" has been further down the list, not because I didn't like it - I did, but there were others I liked better - until quite recently when I gave it a few extra listens and now for some reason I absolutely love it!    There are no songs on it that I skip and now it is up there amongst my favourites.   Sometimes albums need time to sink in properly and I'm glad I gave this beautiful album the extra time it deserved.   When listening to both Tracker and KTGC I feel I'm embarking on a journey.

@Quizzaciously - You mentioned "5.15am" being like watching a movie and I entirely agree, but I would add "The Scaffolder's Wife", because when listening to that song I can actually see this woman teetering along on her stilletto boots, going to have her roots done!  MK is an expert at this kind of storytelling!

@ Chris - Welcome to AMIT and I hope you will love all of MK's solo albums as much as I do! 
Goin' into Tow Law....

Offlinedmg

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2020, 02:49:10 PM »
If you're more of a DS fan you'll like GH and STP best, with an honourable mention to GL.
"I'm playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order."

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2020, 02:52:51 PM »
If you want to go from DS to MK you can start with Sailing to Philadelphia and Down the road Wherever which are the two most DS like albums for me.

Sailing could have been a DS album except for maybe two songs in it. Down the road has sax, a DS vibe and it's a good album to embrace the MK spectrum, you could tear this album apart and dispatch all of its songs in each of MK's previous records.
I once thought about rearranging all of MK songs in totally new albums, the rock album, the folk album, the Irish one, etc... it's quite fun. 
Some albums have more cohesion than others, Golden Heart is maybe the more diverse, and Shangri-la, despite its many genre, is the more coherent, meaning it's a collection of great songs working well together.

these are all my personal thoughts.

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Re: Question from an old DS fan
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2020, 03:11:27 PM »
Welcome, Chris!
I belong to the portion of fans here who prefer MK's solo career to his DS period. His solo albums are full of gems. Regarding his later albums, Get Lucky seems to be a fan favourite, with Border Reiver, So Far From The Clyde, Piper To The End, etc. Privateering is one my personal favourites but it doesn't seem to be very consensual, with many of us criticizing for the excessive use of Blues. Tracker is a very good album with beautiful  melodies and lyrics. This album could be best described with a quote I read here a few days ago by another member as "a granddad sitting comfortably in his couch and playing songs on his acoustic". On Down The Road Wherever, he expanded his sound and gave snippets of jazz and funky stuff with the addittion of trumpet and the like. I believe it was well received and many fans rate it quite high in their rankings.

Give them a listen and see for yourself. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Thanks - I will grab these others over time. Keen not to get too much at the same time for fear of burnout. So far I think that KTGC seems like the weakest of the albums I have got, hence me wondering if his output had deteriorated. But I like the descriptions of the others.

Chris
welcome chris.
and yes, i would agree that KTGC is his weakest, ever. I for one NEVER play it, and i DO play all the rest.

What about Heart Full Of Holes? I remember this song made me cry and still do. "It's a wonder to me, I still don't understand, why I ever survived to be old with a heart full of holes?", I mean, wow! What about Madame Geneva's, an amazing ballad? In The Sky is an astonishingly beautiful waltz, flawlessly recorded and arranged. True Love Will Never Fade, an ultimate strumming song with a beautiful guitar solo, another waltz Scaffolder's Wife, melodic and catchy, The Fizzy And The Still is also a good number with a cool chorus. I get that it's your personal taste, but songs on that album are great. I guess it can be perceived as a weak album because it's the first album made completely in the new studio, so he went full experiment mode. To me, after Kill To Get Crimson all Mark's albums had this distinctive "British Grove Studios" sound, and he got it with this album.

I agree with you. KTGC it's a beautiful album.
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

 

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