Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"

[dustyvalentino]

Queen only split their credits towards the end.

[ds1984]

To me that's all ridiculous... If you're a band, like The Doors or Queen, then credits go to all. If you're a band just because frontman is too shy to go with his name that's another story. And if you have multiple frontmen, then... Good luck

Imagine if there was a law that if you form a band, then all the band members get a songwriting credit. Mark certainly would be a solo artist from the beginning

Take "Light My Fire". Everybody knows Robby Krieger wrote the song. But Jim Morrison wrote the additional verse, John Densmore came up with the latin rhythm and Ray Manzarek came up with the iconic rhythm, chords and solo ideas.

Who gets the credit? All four! Because... a band.

Mark Knopfler and his DireStraits wasn't the full name of the band?

[JF]

To me that's all ridiculous... If you're a band, like The Doors or Queen, then credits go to all. If you're a band just because frontman is too shy to go with his name that's another story. And if you have multiple frontmen, then... Good luck

Imagine if there was a law that if you form a band, then all the band members get a songwriting credit. Mark certainly would be a solo artist from the beginning

Take "Light My Fire". Everybody knows Robby Krieger wrote the song. But Jim Morrison wrote the additional verse, John Densmore came up with the latin rhythm and Ray Manzarek came up with the iconic rhythm, chords and solo ideas.

Who gets the credit? All four! Because... a band.

yes exactly. because in THIS case, you can say that each member add something to the song.
But it's not always the case in all bands.

would you say for example that Bill Wyman brought the same "amount of ideas" in a stones song than Jagger, Richards or Jones ? I might be wrong, but I don't think so

[quizzaciously]

To me that's all ridiculous... If you're a band, like The Doors or Queen, then credits go to all. If you're a band just because frontman is too shy to go with his name that's another story. And if you have multiple frontmen, then... Good luck

Imagine if there was a law that if you form a band, then all the band members get a songwriting credit. Mark certainly would be a solo artist from the beginning

Take "Light My Fire". Everybody knows Robby Krieger wrote the song. But Jim Morrison wrote the additional verse, John Densmore came up with the latin rhythm and Ray Manzarek came up with the iconic rhythm, chords and solo ideas.

Who gets the credit? All four! Because... a band.

Mark Knopfler and his DireStraits wasn't the full name of the band?

By the way, not a bad idea at all. Almost like Tina Turner with Dire Straits for "Private Dancer" would work

[quizzaciously]

To me that's all ridiculous... If you're a band, like The Doors or Queen, then credits go to all. If you're a band just because frontman is too shy to go with his name that's another story. And if you have multiple frontmen, then... Good luck

Imagine if there was a law that if you form a band, then all the band members get a songwriting credit. Mark certainly would be a solo artist from the beginning

Take "Light My Fire". Everybody knows Robby Krieger wrote the song. But Jim Morrison wrote the additional verse, John Densmore came up with the latin rhythm and Ray Manzarek came up with the iconic rhythm, chords and solo ideas.

Who gets the credit? All four! Because... a band.

yes exactly. because in THIS case, you can say that each member add something to the song.
But it's not always the case in all bands.

would you say for example that Bill Wyman brought the same "amount of ideas" in a stones song than Jagger, Richards or Jones ? I might be wrong, but I don't think so

I don't know, but what I know is I hate when the band revolves around 1 man and still being called a band... It sometimes gets to the point of being downright ridiculous, like one of my favourite contemporary bands Fleet Foxes released their new album in 2020 but... It was recorded without the band members, with frontman and other players only, he wrote all the songs and on promo photos on Times Square there was a photo of him and the band's name. Yeah, great band, huh? One man band that is.

A band is too often just a way to get a brand going and generate more income because nobody cares about Mark Knopfler, but DIRE STRAITS! That's another story, everybody lose their mind for Dire Straits. Don't mind DS that's basically everything MK, but a good brand nevetheless.

[dustyvalentino]

To me that's all ridiculous... If you're a band, like The Doors or Queen, then credits go to all. If you're a band just because frontman is too shy to go with his name that's another story. And if you have multiple frontmen, then... Good luck

Imagine if there was a law that if you form a band, then all the band members get a songwriting credit. Mark certainly would be a solo artist from the beginning

Take "Light My Fire". Everybody knows Robby Krieger wrote the song. But Jim Morrison wrote the additional verse, John Densmore came up with the latin rhythm and Ray Manzarek came up with the iconic rhythm, chords and solo ideas.

Who gets the credit? All four! Because... a band.

yes exactly. because in THIS case, you can say that each member add something to the song.
But it's not always the case in all bands.

would you say for example that Bill Wyman brought the same "amount of ideas" in a stones song than Jagger, Richards or Jones ? I might be wrong, but I don't think so

Both Bill Wyman and Ronnie Woods said they wrote songs that Jagger and Richards took the credit for.

Wyman says he wrote the riff for Jumpin Jack Flash.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JF]

To me that's all ridiculous... If you're a band, like The Doors or Queen, then credits go to all. If you're a band just because frontman is too shy to go with his name that's another story. And if you have multiple frontmen, then... Good luck

Imagine if there was a law that if you form a band, then all the band members get a songwriting credit. Mark certainly would be a solo artist from the beginning

Take "Light My Fire". Everybody knows Robby Krieger wrote the song. But Jim Morrison wrote the additional verse, John Densmore came up with the latin rhythm and Ray Manzarek came up with the iconic rhythm, chords and solo ideas.

Who gets the credit? All four! Because... a band.

yes exactly. because in THIS case, you can say that each member add something to the song.
But it's not always the case in all bands.

would you say for example that Bill Wyman brought the same "amount of ideas" in a stones song than Jagger, Richards or Jones ? I might be wrong, but I don't think so

Both Bill Wyman and Ronnie Woods said they wrote songs that Jagger and Richards took the credit for.

Wyman says he wrote the riff for Jumpin Jack Flash.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

yes right. and of course songs that should be co-credited with Taylor (sway, time waits for no one, moonlight mile, can't you hear me knocking at least)
but it depends on songs obviously
you can't have a rule that works all the time. I think it's difficlut to say "all songs by the band are credited to the whole band".
some songs are indeed by the band, some other are by only one member, some other are by one member but with ideas by other members, etc...

so I think it's not binary. it's not a band or a single artist. it's more complicated than that
and of course there the lennon-mccartney example. we all know that some songs are only John, and other are only Paul. Some are 50/50, but some are 70/30, 20/80, etc...

I find this subject fascinating : where is the line when we can say someone "contributes" to a musical work ? interpretation ? "arrangement" ? composition ? "giving ideas" ? the difference is often thin

[JF]

I don't know, but what I know is I hate when the band revolves around 1 man and still being called a band... It sometimes gets to the point of being downright ridiculous, like one of my favourite contemporary bands Fleet Foxes released their new album in 2020 but... It was recorded without the band members, with frontman and other players only, he wrote all the songs and on promo photos on Times Square there was a photo of him and the band's name. Yeah, great band, huh? One man band that is.

same with some Beach Boys recordings

[quizzaciously]

yes right. and of course songs that should be co-credited with Taylor (sway, time waits for no one, moonlight mile, can't you hear me knocking at least)
but it depends on songs obviously
you can't have a rule that works all the time. I think it's difficlut to say "all songs by the band are credited to the whole band".
some songs are indeed by the band, some other are by only one member, some other are by one member but with ideas by other members, etc...

so I think it's not binary. it's not a band or a single artist. it's more complicated than that
and of course there the lennon-mccartney example. we all know that some songs are only John, and other are only Paul. Some are 50/50, but some are 70/30, 20/80, etc...

I find this subject fascinating : where is the line when we can say someone "contributes" to a musical work ? interpretation ? "arrangement" ? composition ? "giving ideas" ? the difference is often thin

Yes, it's definitely interesting. I think it's often as simple as an oral contract, like the famous Lennon/McCartney thing. Just credit everything to both, personally, I find this decision a genius touch. But I remember when I was a kid and saw the news that Paul wanted to reverse credits to McCartney/Lennon for some of the songs and I thought now that's ridiculous... Especially considering John was dead for decades by this point.

However, if your contribution was so massive, and you weren't mentioned, after all, there's always a court waiting for you. Fill a lawsuit, win it if you're right and voila — you're a co-author! In my mind, if it never ended up in the court, and everybody's fine with how it goes, then it's history. It was your choice whether you are going to fight it, or leave it.

Regarding Alan telling everywhere about John being wrong, I don't know. To me it's nonsense, just forget about it. Like, nobody cares, really.

[JF]

yes right. and of course songs that should be co-credited with Taylor (sway, time waits for no one, moonlight mile, can't you hear me knocking at least)
but it depends on songs obviously
you can't have a rule that works all the time. I think it's difficlut to say "all songs by the band are credited to the whole band".
some songs are indeed by the band, some other are by only one member, some other are by one member but with ideas by other members, etc...

so I think it's not binary. it's not a band or a single artist. it's more complicated than that
and of course there the lennon-mccartney example. we all know that some songs are only John, and other are only Paul. Some are 50/50, but some are 70/30, 20/80, etc...

I find this subject fascinating : where is the line when we can say someone "contributes" to a musical work ? interpretation ? "arrangement" ? composition ? "giving ideas" ? the difference is often thin

Yes, it's definitely interesting. I think it's often as simple as an oral contract, like the famous Lennon/McCartney thing. Just credit everything to both, personally, I find this decision a genius touch. But I remember when I was a kid and saw the news that Paul wanted to reverse credits to McCartney/Lennon for some of the songs and I thought now that's ridiculous... Especially considering John was dead for decades by this point.

However, if your contribution was so massive, and you weren't mentioned, after all, there's always a court waiting for you. Fill a lawsuit, win it if you're right and voila — you're a co-author! In my mind, if it never ended up in the court, and everybody's fine with how it goes, then it's history. It was your choice whether you are going to fight it, or leave it.

Regarding Alan telling everywhere about John being wrong, I don't know. To me it's nonsense, just forget about it. Like, nobody cares, really.

about the Beatles I always give this example : Revolution 9.
ok it's not really a "song", but it is an "artistic work" though.
it's credited Lennon/McCartney. Paul did nothing on it (like many other John's songs), BUT George did.
So you have a Lennon/McCartney "song" on which Harrison has worked, but isn't credited

[dustyvalentino]

I hope everyone has watched Get Back.

Fascinating to watch The Beatles writing together. They are all making suggestions and helping each other.

[JF]

I hope everyone has watched Get Back.

Fascinating to watch The Beatles writing together. They are all making suggestions and helping each other.

I haven't seen it yet, but I am impatient to have the oportunity

[qjamesfloyd]

The,almost,hatred, here for AC is rather sad.
He certainly made (major?)contributions to songs on LOG onwards and deserves credit for that.
You could easily make a case for him being the band member who had the (second) most influence on DS songs and for that I'm grateful.
I also quite like Backstory:)

As I've written before whilst MK is credited as sole writer of the whole catalogue of DS songs, whilst legally that might be the case, I find it very hard to believe others didn't strongly influence song composition, and elements that we know and love.  It's entirely possible Alan Clark had a massive role in the intro to MFN, it is after all synth led and you only have to listen to those parts on Local Hero where there are synth solo tracks to draw parallels.  I would say he probably doesn't help himself in how bluntly he communicates things but there isn't really another way to say 'I did it' is there.  Interesting to see whether there is any reaction from other band members on this.

So the legitimate question would be, where Alan's own "Money For Nothing"? then? It's easy to be creative with songwriters like MK, it matters what they can bring on their own. Besides, I'm pretty sure MK himself have had a lot of moments where he would help other people with writing songs without any credits given. Even the latest release by Dion, he said Mark helped him with the arrangement and all. So my thinking still and always will be that session musician's job or band member job is to come up with little ideas. Intros and outros is not a big idea, it's more like a finishing touch. Telegraph Road is another story... But then again, I'm sure if that was such a giant input, MK would give credits where it belongs. The big idea and most of the song is still his.

Mark wrote the intro riff for the Joan Armatrading track Did I Make You Up but gets no credit for it, Joan says herself that Mark did it. Also, I read that Mark re-worked some of Jimmy Nails lyrics to Big River, what he actually wrote I don't know, again no credit, not that Mark wants it I guess!!! He should even get a co-writers credit at best for If Love Means Brushing Someone Else's Hair with Clive James as Clive said Mark re-wrote most of that over night, there could be more instances too.

[Robson]

Mark is not Sting 

[wakeywakey]

Mark is not Sting 

It was Sting's publishers who "demanded" the credit.