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Author Topic: Studio Diary 2022  (Read 32598 times)

OfflineJF

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #210 on: March 27, 2023, 11:00:11 AM »
I remember he said something about Hill Farmer blues when the record was released, he said something like he didn't want another boring guitar solo for it, just leaving like that.

ok but why a solo would be boring in this song, and not in You don't know you're born:think :hmm

he has to be honest : it's not the song that is king, it's just that he wants or he does'nt want. that's all

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #211 on: March 27, 2023, 11:20:35 AM »
I remember he said something about Hill Farmer blues when the record was released, he said something like he didn't want another boring guitar solo for it, just leaving like that.

ok but why a solo would be boring in this song, and not in You don't know you're born:think :hmm

he has to be honest : it's not the song that is king, it's just that he wants or he does'nt want. that's all

Hate to be Mark's advocate here, but I probably understand where he's coming from. Imagine you're recording a couple of dozen of songs or whatever, composing solos and stuff. Also, Chuck "Mr Digital" Ainlay said in a recent interview Mark records his solos over the complete song, so it's a conscious decision from MK. I mean he heard that there was silence after the climax in Hill Farmer's, it's not like he forgot to finish it or something.

And so you get to this big crescendo in Hill Farmer Blues, and what you can play over that? Yes, you can fill it with a couple of minutes of guitar noodling, but to me, it works both ways, with a "karaoke" solo or with a real solo in the live situation. I even think this part being unresolved it even adds a little bit of enjoyment to the whole thing. Not every song should end with a big solo and power chord in the end.

"You Don't Know You're Born" is a bad example since it's a clear nod to Hank Marvin's sound and more like a riff than a solo.

Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #212 on: March 27, 2023, 11:50:04 AM »
I really like the solo in You Don't Know You're Born.

In any case, these examples aren't really relevant anymore as they were 20 years ago...
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Offlineqjamesfloyd

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #213 on: March 28, 2023, 10:15:54 AM »
I don't have an issue with the song is king remark, I think Mark has always thought that, at the start of his career he had to get noticed, and Sultans of Swing was a big way to get noticed, but a song like Wild West End is a different thing, but from the same album and writer. He has made no secret of the fact that Bob Dylan is his song writing hero, and the kind of writer Mark aspires to be. As for guitar playing, the fact is he has been there and done that, he spent decades being the guitar hero, and since his solo career started his focus has changed, he wants to be known as a song writer who plays guitar, not a guitar hero, and I think we have to accept that is his decision and move on.
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Offlinesuperval99

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #214 on: March 28, 2023, 10:43:04 AM »
I don't have an issue with the song is king remark, I think Mark has always thought that, at the start of his career he had to get noticed, and Sultans of Swing was a big way to get noticed, but a song like Wild West End is a different thing, but from the same album and writer. He has made no secret of the fact that Bob Dylan is his song writing hero, and the kind of writer Mark aspires to be. As for guitar playing, the fact is he has been there and done that, he spent decades being the guitar hero, and since his solo career started his focus has changed, he wants to be known as a song writer who plays guitar, not a guitar hero, and I think we have to accept that is his decision and move on.

Agreed!   :thumbsup
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OfflineJF

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #215 on: March 28, 2023, 12:18:04 PM »
I think you misunderstood me.
I am not saying that I want him return as a guitar hero playing ultra long solos etc...
of course I understand he changed his songwriting and the way he wants to play songs. No problem with that

it's just that I find his "song is king" argument not "vaild" and a little bit"demagogic" so to say

he uses it when he wants, but not all the time.

Offlineds1984

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #216 on: March 28, 2023, 01:12:19 PM »
We don't need another Bob Dylan.
The haters are those who write shit

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Offlinejbaent

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #217 on: March 28, 2023, 01:14:57 PM »
I think you misunderstood me.
I am not saying that I want him return as a guitar hero playing ultra long solos etc...
of course I understand he changed his songwriting and the way he wants to play songs. No problem with that

it's just that I find his "song is king" argument not "vaild" and a little bit"demagogic" so to say

he uses it when he wants, but not all the time.

I think he uses the song is king all the time and apply to it more or less consequently.

I say more or less because maybe he might feel the song needs a guitar solo but if he doesn't feel like playing it, he might try other different things like fiddles, sax, flute and sometimes in the end he might end playing a guitar solo, but not as creative as he used in the past that just fit with the song and doesn't require too much effort. Lately is guitar solos are just repeating the main melody of the song and not going further than that.
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Offlinejbaent

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #218 on: March 28, 2023, 01:55:31 PM »
This song is king makes me think how much the royalty has changed since the start of Dire Straits, when most of the royal family demanded guitar solos, usually twice per song, and nowadays looks like the royal family is not so demanding and asks just for whatever sounds that are not guitar solos.

Monarchy is a quite curious thing.
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OfflineRobson

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #219 on: March 28, 2023, 03:27:44 PM »
The song has always been the most important for MK, the words, the content, the message. He only used the guitar for composing. And in that sense: "song is king" makes sense.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 03:32:56 PM by Robson »
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

OfflineJF

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #220 on: March 28, 2023, 06:11:25 PM »
sorry to insist, but I don't understand "the song NEEDS a solo"

to me it just the style the composer wants to play his song. You can re-arrange all songs in the way you want
we all know famous covers of songs

Do you think that Jimi Hendrix thought that Dylan's "All along the wtachower" NEEDED several solos ? No, it's just that he wanted to play this song like this

I can't see why Hill farmer's blues NEEDS a solo on stage, but not in studio, and why Love over gold NEEDS an outro in studio, but not on stage...

it's just a pure CHOICE decided by Mark, not an obscure force coming from the song telling him what to do... come on

I think he doesn't assume his choices by quoting this argument

Offlinejbaent

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #221 on: March 28, 2023, 08:28:07 PM »
sorry to insist, but I don't understand "the song NEEDS a solo"

to me it just the style the composer wants to play his song. You can re-arrange all songs in the way you want
we all know famous covers of songs

Do you think that Jimi Hendrix thought that Dylan's "All along the wtachower" NEEDED several solos ? No, it's just that he wanted to play this song like this

I can't see why Hill farmer's blues NEEDS a solo on stage, but not in studio, and why Love over gold NEEDS an outro in studio, but not on stage...

it's just a pure CHOICE decided by Mark, not an obscure force coming from the song telling him what to do... come on

I think he doesn't assume his choices by quoting this argument

Respect the monarchy!

Lol
You might get lucky, now and then

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OfflineJF

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #222 on: March 28, 2023, 08:32:07 PM »
sorry to insist, but I don't understand "the song NEEDS a solo"

to me it just the style the composer wants to play his song. You can re-arrange all songs in the way you want
we all know famous covers of songs

Do you think that Jimi Hendrix thought that Dylan's "All along the wtachower" NEEDED several solos ? No, it's just that he wanted to play this song like this

I can't see why Hill farmer's blues NEEDS a solo on stage, but not in studio, and why Love over gold NEEDS an outro in studio, but not on stage...

it's just a pure CHOICE decided by Mark, not an obscure force coming from the song telling him what to do... come on

I think he doesn't assume his choices by quoting this argument

Respect the monarchy!

Lol

 ;D :lol

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #223 on: March 28, 2023, 11:16:35 PM »
sorry to insist, but I don't understand "the song NEEDS a solo"

to me it just the style the composer wants to play his song. You can re-arrange all songs in the way you want
we all know famous covers of songs

Do you think that Jimi Hendrix thought that Dylan's "All along the wtachower" NEEDED several solos ? No, it's just that he wanted to play this song like this

I can't see why Hill farmer's blues NEEDS a solo on stage, but not in studio, and why Love over gold NEEDS an outro in studio, but not on stage...

it's just a pure CHOICE decided by Mark, not an obscure force coming from the song telling him what to do... come on

I think he doesn't assume his choices by quoting this argument

Respect the monarchy!

Lol

 ;D :lol

It's an interesting psychological conundrum. The creative process is never predictable and logical, sometimes you do something only to realise 10 years later that you did everything right, wish you could change something, or wish you never did it in the first place.

Maybe Mark can agree today, that the studio version of Hill Farmer's Blues would benefit from having a solo, maybe he can't. But the artistic decision was made at the time of recording, probably and most certainly for a reason. Maybe he wasn't able to come up with a good solo, maybe he was out of time or budget, or simply not in the mood, or he felt what they did was enough for the song.

That's what I think means "song is king". You do everything you possibly could for the song at the time while you are in the same room together, while you can affect it somehow. If you only have one instrument, make the arrangement interesting and full. If you have a band or an orchestra, do not overdo it. If you feel it doesn't need a solo, don't play it.

Considering Mark played the solo live, after all, I bet he wishes he would play it in the studio as well, but for that, he will need a time machine.

Offlineds1984

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Re: Studio Diary 2022
« Reply #224 on: March 29, 2023, 12:20:03 AM »

Considering Mark played the solo live, after all, I bet he wishes he would play it in the studio as well, but for that, he will need a time machine.

Mark decided to develop the song specially for the stage.
Nothing is known about his view regarding back his decision for the studio version.
What is known is that he was balancing between The Man's Too Strong and Hill Farmer's Blues, and the later was chosen.
The haters are those who write shit

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