Manu Katche speaks about working with MK

[ksu]

Maybe BIA drums sounds that way because digital recording. Guy said many times that they recorded bass and drums on analogue tapes during the MK solo career because it sounded more organic.

I agree is a pity that you have Hakim on drums and you get that dry and death sound.

Does analogue recording sound different than digital, yes it does. How much of a difference does it make? A lot less than you would think considering how much people talk about it. I would estimate probably the drum sounds on BIA are 98% about mixing and production and 2% about digital recording format. Of course when you have practically unlimited budget like MK does, and want the absolutely best results, then you will get that analogue recording console like MK has.

[Marijn]

The "demo" sounds to me like Jeff's work, less classic, more pop. But the major difference is the mix. It's a rough mix and unmastered.

When it comes to Mark's mood changes, don't forget that he intended to release OES in 1990 and had a tour planned just one year six months earlier than it eventually started. It was all delayed due to the tension building up in former Yugoslavia the Middle East, which resulted in the war there.
So he took this opportunity (time) to re-record some of the tracks.

[Chris W]

When it comes to Mark's mood changes, don't forget that he intended to release OES in 1990 and had a tour planned just one year earlier than it eventually started. It was all delayed due to the tension building up in former Yugoslavia, which resulted in the war there.
So he took this opportunity (time) to re-record some of the tracks.

I think Ed has already mentioned on the forum several times, the OES tour was postponed because of the first Gulf War, after Iraq invaded Kuwait.
There was an issue with insurance etc. It had zero to do with Yugoslavia and nothing to do with Mark or individual band members, it was just too difficult logistically to start the tour with a war in the middle east going on.
As far as I knew, the album was finished and mixed before the tour was postponed. I had auditioned for Mark and John while they were mixing the album. The tour was postponed by six months. The delay actually impacted some people hard, much harder than it impacted Mark.
People had made themselves available to tour in early 1991, had turned down significant other work, like other world tours, then we were all told at the last minute the OES tour wouldn't happen for at least six months.

[Marijn]

.  Thanks for correcting me! 

[mariosboss]

Not sure where you got I wasn't a fan of 'hard hitting straight forward rock'. That is what I was best known for in my career.
Julian Cope - World Shut Your Mouth, The Waterboys - The Whole Of The Moon.
MFN and Heavy Fuel were a walk in the park for me.
What I wasn't a fan of was being asked to play at the absolute top of my volume love for an entire two hour show. I was already quite a straight forward, confident and loud drummer, but because of the deficiencies of the stage design and (to be honest) some of Mark's insecurities, I was asked to play absolute full volume from the first note of the show to the end.
We played 'Live and Let Die' on the McCartney tour. Slash and Axel Rose came to one of our shows and a few months later released their own cover version which was note for note identical to the live version we played.

Apologies - you were talking in regards to the full volume playing live. Although i'm fairly sure I read somewhere a few years back that you are more interested in other genres of music - from electronic to Drum and Bass elements. Maybe i've completely mis-read that somewhere. Look i'm sure you are into pretty much most genres, I was always a lover of the bombastic drummer like Bonham, Collins, a chap sadly now deceased called Michael Lee, along with many of the 90's alternative drummers like Erik Kretz from STP, Mike Bordin from FNM, Matt Cameron, Will Calhoun from Living Colour is certainly one of my top 3, but I then got into bands like Depeche Mode and The Prodigy who don't necessarily always use proper drummers. However even for my solo material (which i've always delayed because I loathe programmed sounding drumming on rock songs) there is software and various bits and pieces available that use proper drummers who play various beats/record various stems. I'm sure I read that you did that for a period? Anyway I digress.

Yes I love World Shut Your Mouth. Actually i'd play that to my kids in the car a few years back when they were 4/5. They loved it. Same with Whole Of The Moon and I appreciate you would have not been credited on various other famous tracks from the late 80's early 90's which you played on. I read stuff all the time about ghost musicians and session players. Sometimes i'm not surprised other times i'm flabbergasted.

[mariosboss]

There was never a war on drums, and drums have never been louder in the mix.
What happened was drum parts got simpler. Possibly influenced by drum machines. The last busy rock/pop drummers were Pick and Stewart Copeland. The emphasis in the late 80's, 90's and 2000's is a solid groove, almost like a drum loop.
So Far Away is like a drum loop. Personally I like that style.
I heard so much about the amazing production on BIA for years. I obviously heard most of it over time on radio and in bars.
When I was given the album to learn some songs for the OES tour I was shocked how thin and weak the drums sound. It's a production thing.
Hakim is an incredible drummer with a great sound, but the drums on BIA sound like tin cans, very bright, very dead.
It's the way it was mixed. Nothing to do with the drummer or the industry's attitude to drummers.

I 100% agree with the drum production and the way it's mixed. Fairly weak drum sound, apart from the MFN Drum solo part recorded by Williams, also I think Ride Across the River works relatively well but the rest of the album, i'm not a fan of the drums. Compare it to let's say Expresso Love from Making Movies or Tunnel Of Love. My word, what a huge difference, Although I do agree with some of Jimbo's original points.

The thing is I suppose you can have a drummer like Terry Williams who is outstanding live, plays well, hard-hitting, but arguably too busy and if the chief engineer isn't a fan then you are in trouble. I do appreciate that recording in the studio can even catch out decent drummers. If you have to use a click, and I suppose back then you couldn't get away with minor mistakes like you can now where you just cut and paste etc. That's where the likes of Omar and you come into the mix. But I appreciate you are humble enough to say (again i'm sure I've read this) that at times even you have been baffled as to why you needed to come into a studio to replace a certain part / or the whole track.