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Author Topic: Ed Bicknell - Jazz, Blues and Beyond  (Read 2779 times)

Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Ed Bicknell - Jazz, Blues and Beyond
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2025, 10:40:34 AM »
For everyone upset by Ed getting edited down in his prime, here's some extra Ed, this time chatting alongside none other than the great Clem Catini and John Coghlan of Status Quo.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p032tv5m

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p03q9gtn
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OnlineChris W

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Re: Ed Bicknell - Jazz, Blues and Beyond
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2025, 10:54:16 AM »
As an outsider looking in...
I agree with Ed 100% that Pick was the perfect drummer, the only drummer for the sound of Dire Straits in the beginning and I agree he picked the right moment to leave. From watching Pick's recent interviews it seems like Mark and John started to take him for granted. Instead of appreciating Pick's contribution to the sound and style of the band they both started to try and change him.
When I heard 'Sultans Of Swing' for the first time on the radio it was a complete outlier, a shock. At the time the radio was mix of harsh punk/new wave, glitzy glam like ABBA and Queen and stadium rock like Pink Floyd and Fleetwood Mac.
I bought Bat Out Of Hell on day one, unheard, just because I was a massive fan of Todd Rundgren and he'd also used some of his regular musicians on the tracks. I hated it. I still don't really like it.
As just about every record label on the planet rejected it when it was pitched I don't think I'm so much of snob.

OfflineRolo

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Re: Ed Bicknell - Jazz, Blues and Beyond
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2025, 01:47:01 PM »
As an outsider looking in...
I agree with Ed 100% that Pick was the perfect drummer, the only drummer for the sound of Dire Straits in the beginning and I agree he picked the right moment to leave. From watching Pick's recent interviews it seems like Mark and John started to take him for granted. Instead of appreciating Pick's contribution to the sound and style of the band they both started to try and change him.
When I heard 'Sultans Of Swing' for the first time on the radio it was a complete outlier, a shock. At the time the radio was mix of harsh punk/new wave, glitzy glam like ABBA and Queen and stadium rock like Pink Floyd and Fleetwood Mac.
I bought Bat Out Of Hell on day one, unheard, just because I was a massive fan of Todd Rundgren and he'd also used some of his regular musicians on the tracks. I hated it. I still don't really like it.
As just about every record label on the planet rejected it when it was pitched I don't think I'm so much of snob.

Pick is an outstanding drummer. Total class.
Pick's drumming is flawless on the first 2 DS albums. I mean, he is fantastic on everything that he recorded but, the first 2 DS albums plus the Slow Train Comming record are pure Pick.

Even when he drop the stick (What's The Matter Baby live at BBC) he is fantastic.

I watched a Pick's interview for a drummer on YT. The interviewer said something like: - When I play SOS, I always that paradidle that you did on the record...
Pick interrupts and says: - That is NOT a paradidle. Not. No. No. Not a paradidle.
- Ok, explain to me.
- That is NOT a paradidle. hahaha

Total Pick.
I love that 'almost angry' sense of humour.

OfflineIngrained

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Re: Ed Bicknell - Jazz, Blues and Beyond
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2025, 09:36:04 PM »
I've wondered that if when Pick left, it possibly then became apparent that Pick was doing so much, for want of better words. The choices that he made, his abilities but maybe also generally helping to arrange the songs with the band. It often feels to me like he really helped “build” those early songs. He seems to have pushed and pulled the songs around, where another drummer may possibly have not. One thing that always comes to mind for me is the part where the snare goes offbeat for a couple of hits (I think) in the R+J chorus “I love you like the stars above”, which I often wonder whether another drummer may have chosen to just play it straight through and not really even considered the offbeat. Very simple, but it helps break that chorus up, give it some tension and move it around. Not an “accent” in the drumming terminology sense, but a kind of accenting of certain areas of the songs or lyrics maybe.

And the rolling toms in the stabs “oh la” section of TOL that always make me think are reminiscent of a waltzer rolling around. Picks drumming feels sort of playful and very creative to me. I always sense that he is conscious of the song as a whole and that makes those early songs feel all “baked in” together as a band. Picks parts always sound thoughtfully “crafted" to me.

OfflineLove Expresso

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Re: Ed Bicknell - Jazz, Blues and Beyond
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2025, 10:28:01 PM »
I've wondered that if when Pick left, it possibly then became apparent that Pick was doing so much, for want of better words. The choices that he made, his abilities but maybe also generally helping to arrange the songs with the band. It often feels to me like he really helped “build” those early songs. He seems to have pushed and pulled the songs around, where another drummer may possibly have not. One thing that always comes to mind for me is the part where the snare goes offbeat for a couple of hits (I think) in the R+J chorus “I love you like the stars above”, which I often wonder whether another drummer may have chosen to just play it straight through and not really even considered the offbeat. Very simple, but it helps break that chorus up, give it some tension and move it around. Not an “accent” in the drumming terminology sense, but a kind of accenting of certain areas of the songs or lyrics maybe.

And the rolling toms in the stabs “oh la” section of TOL that always make me think are reminiscent of a waltzer rolling around. Picks drumming feels sort of playful and very creative to me. I always sense that he is conscious of the song as a whole and that makes those early songs feel all “baked in” together as a band. Picks parts always sound thoughtfully “crafted" to me.

Great post! Thanks!

LE
I don't want no sugar in it, thank you very much!

OnlineChris W

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Re: Ed Bicknell - Jazz, Blues and Beyond
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2025, 10:53:37 PM »
One thing that always comes to mind for me is the part where the snare goes offbeat for a couple of hits (I think) in the R+J chorus “I love you like the stars above”, which I often wonder whether another drummer may have chosen to just play it straight through and not really even considered the offbeat.

Probably most would play straight through. Sometimes these things are discussed with the song writer and producer though, not just the drummer.
The bit you are talking about is a Phil Spector beat, like 'The Leader Of The Pack'.

OfflineMossguitar

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Re: Ed Bicknell - Jazz, Blues and Beyond
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2025, 12:17:05 AM »
As an outsider looking in...
I agree with Ed 100% that Pick was the perfect drummer, the only drummer for the sound of Dire Straits in the beginning and I agree he picked the right moment to leave. From watching Pick's recent interviews it seems like Mark and John started to take him for granted. Instead of appreciating Pick's contribution to the sound and style of the band they both started to try and change him.
Yes, I agree, and you are probably right about taking him for granted. But It could also be that MK wanted to evolve, and that Pick just wasn’t in for the ride (aka the new and simpler direction)?

OfflineIngrained

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Re: Ed Bicknell - Jazz, Blues and Beyond
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2025, 07:41:34 AM »
One thing that always comes to mind for me is the part where the snare goes offbeat for a couple of hits (I think) in the R+J chorus “I love you like the stars above”, which I often wonder whether another drummer may have chosen to just play it straight through and not really even considered the offbeat.

Probably most would play straight through. Sometimes these things are discussed with the song writer and producer though, not just the drummer.
The bit you are talking about is a Phil Spector beat, like 'The Leader Of The Pack'.

Thank you Chris, that’s interesting, to me it also sounds like it was a response to the lyrics, like Pick is accenting the vocal line and it makes it more dramatic or even just sit better. If I imagine the snare on beat, the vocal would sound a bit awkward, but of course Mark sang with Picks drums as well, so I imagine they played off each other.

Whilst the drums on R+J still sound dramatic, widescreen-esque and emotional, I feel Pick seemed to play R+J with a kind of upbeatness and he kept the drums sounding ‘intimate’, which all adds to the bitter sweetness of that song for me. I’m aware that it could all just be instinctive, and not highly “cerebral” decisions.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2025, 08:07:44 AM by Ingrained »

Offlinekempston_joystick

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Re: Ed Bicknell - Jazz, Blues and Beyond
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2025, 08:45:04 PM »
Enjoying this discussion. One of the things I love most about Making Movies is PIck's dynamics. Even in dramatic moments, he still plays "delicately", if you know what I mean.

Such an exciting time for the band, basically operating as a three-piece, and it feels like everyone's so tuned into with each-other.

That being said, I wouldn't swap Terry's playing on Alchemy for anything!

Offlinedmg

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Re: Ed Bicknell - Jazz, Blues and Beyond
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2025, 10:33:13 PM »
Enjoying this discussion. One of the things I love most about Making Movies is PIck's dynamics. Even in dramatic moments, he still plays "delicately", if you know what I mean.

Such an exciting time for the band, basically operating as a three-piece, and it feels like everyone's so tuned into with each-other.

That being said, I wouldn't swap Terry's playing on Alchemy for anything!

I like Terry but personally I think he was just having a blast that night, however wasn't playing the song.
"...and I blew up the radio in pretty short order."

 

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