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Author Topic: A Modern Tribute to Dire Straits – AI Creates an Original Track with Knopfler’s  (Read 18084 times)

OfflineRobson

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Totally agree, WE are fans of REAL music. Made by people with heart and soul. And that's what is all about.
Even if one day they will call us dinosaurs. ;D

 :) :thumbsup
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Offlinesuperval99

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Totally agree, WE are fans of REAL music. Made by people with heart and soul. And that's what is all about.
Even if one day they will call us dinosaurs. ;D

I agree!
Goin' into Tow Law....

OfflineChris W

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Fashion is cyclical. Hopefully humans making music will become commercially successful again. In any case, humans will always play music and write songs, it's just getting harder to be heard, to be found.

OfflineMossguitar

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Fashion is cyclical. Hopefully humans making music will become commercially successful again. In any case, humans will always play music and write songs, it's just getting harder to be heard, to be found.
This must be wrong, mustn’t it? It has to be way easier for musicians to be heard and found today with new technologies and direct distribution and so on. I wonder what statistics say about that (if there are any). I would believe that competition is harder, but that more musicians can live off music today than ever before.

Offlinedustyvalentino

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Fashion is cyclical. Hopefully humans making music will become commercially successful again. In any case, humans will always play music and write songs, it's just getting harder to be heard, to be found.
This must be wrong, mustn’t it? It has to be way easier for musicians to be heard and found today with new technologies and direct distribution and so on. I wonder what statistics say about that (if there are any). I would believe that competition is harder, but that more musicians can live off music today than ever before.

Well, rightly or wrongly you used to have curators in the form of record companies and radio stations that would steer people in a certain direction. Nowadays not so much.

Add to that the fact that people don't want to actually pay for recorded music in any meaningful sense now. Live is different. But even then, if someone is paying £300 for Oasis, that's maybe 6 £50 gig tickets that they could have spent on smaller artists.
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OfflineRolo

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Fashion is cyclical. Hopefully humans making music will become commercially successful again. In any case, humans will always play music and write songs, it's just getting harder to be heard, to be found.
This must be wrong, mustn’t it? It has to be way easier for musicians to be heard and found today with new technologies and direct distribution and so on. I wonder what statistics say about that (if there are any). I would believe that competition is harder, but that more musicians can live off music today than ever before.

Last time I saw the numbers. 80%+ Of Spotify artists Had less than 1k streams. It means no money for them. Common users do not search for new music.
Doing demos CDs were much more realistic then put música on streaming platforms.

OfflineChris W

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This must be wrong, mustn’t it? It has to be way easier for musicians to be heard and found today with new technologies and direct distribution and so on. I wonder what statistics say about that (if there are any). I would believe that competition is harder, but that more musicians can live off music today than ever before.

There is almost no money in recorded music, with the streaming rate at $0.003 per stream. You have to have 1 million streams to reach minimum wage. Some of my most popular streams on Spotify have 25,000, nowhere near minimum wage. I think 99,000 songs are uploaded to Spotify every day, so any up and coming or indie artist has virtually no chance of ever being heard (or streamed). The absolute key to streaming success is being placed on one of the popular playlists - which is worse than the old record label days. To get on a popular playlist you either have to pay $$$ or find someone influential to recommend you.
Even in the 70's and 80's you had DJs like John Peel championing left field and unknown artists on his popular show.

OfflineRobson

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Or Charlie Gillett, if we're talking about Dire Straits :) Those were the glorious days when radio had a huge impact on the popularity of unknown bands
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
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Now come on woman, come follow me home

OfflineChris W

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Exactly  :thumbsup

OfflineMossguitar

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You may well be right Chris, and you don’t have to like the direction the music business is taking, of course.  But I too know the music business quite well (and it may be different in Norway/Nordics  from the Uk, US and the rest of the world.), but there used to be large record companies and demos and a few hyped, famous and quite wealthy artists. The rest had to play at hotels, pubs and cruise ships to survive or take a day job and play music as a hobby.

Now there are fare more smaller independent and alternative scenes, festivals and artists, niche markeds seems bigger than ever (since the  companies no longer alone decide who’s gonna be heard) and many distribute their music directly from their own website, promote themselves on social media platforms,  sell merch, give music lessons or teach music at music schools, high schools or college, work in studios, tour extensively etc. Few can live off record and streaming sales alone of course, but they still live off music and are heard.

People have played music for 300 000 years. I guess it was harder to be heard 100, 300 and 1000 years ago than it was 40 years ago or today.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2025, 12:25:12 AM by Mossguitar »

OfflineChris W

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You may well be right Chris, and you don’t have to like the direction the music business is taking, of course.  But I too know the music business quite well (and it may be different in Norway/Nordics  from the Uk, US and the rest of the world.), but there used to be large record companies and demos and a few hyped, famous and quite wealthy artists. The rest had to play at hotels, pubs and cruise ships to survive or take a day job and play music as a hobby.


Must be different then, because the latter group is much larger and the group that are being heard like never before and earning money like never before are much, much smaller.

OfflineMossguitar

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Must be different then, because the latter group is much larger and the group that are being heard like never before and earning money like never before are much, much smaller.
Yes, I agree that the group earning big money is much smaller, but the latter larger group is different, diverse, hard working, skilled and barely making it. This group would never have made it in the old days with demos, record companies and radio, but reach out to an audience through alternative distribution channels and methods. I am, though, a bit curious if this group is as large as I seem to claim it is, and I feel that I should be backing it with evidence.

I tried a quick google search (not solid evidence!), and the Google AI thing agreed with me, but those tend to agree with the questionnaire, so I wouldn’t thrust the answer:

«Yes, it's significantly easier for musicians to reach a potential audience today due to the internet, streaming services, and social media, which have removed traditional gatekeepers like record labels.» Then it went on to argue both sides.

I would nevertheless take the perspective into account, as I don’t believe it’s all black and white. Thanks for taking the time to debate this and other topics. It’s fun and enlightening

OfflineChris W

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Well Google has a vested interest.
But I'm not arguing it is harder. Of course anyone can upload their song to Youtube in an instant, anyone can upload their music to Spotify after paying a small fee. It's never been easier. But it's never been harder to be seen and heard, and never been harder to actually live off your art.
90% of music uploaded to Spotify is never streamed, you have to have a million streams to earn minimum wage.
With a mountain of independent uploads to Youtube and streaming, music fans have given up trawling through hours of terrible amateur music. That is why it is crucial to get on a curated playlist - so we're back to the old label paradigm, except it's influencers who have all the power, not passionate music lovers like radio DJ's.
That's the absolute reality I'm seeing for myself. In the 80's I worked with many niche artists who made living from music. These days everyone is owned by the streaming algorithm and niche artists are giving upon surviving on pennies.
There is no chance of another Dire Straits, because streaming promotes music people ALREADY love, that's how the algorithm works. Sultans Of Swing sounded completely different to the popular music of the late 70's. So Spotify wouldn't promote it to listeners, it would bury it.

OfflineRobson

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I hope David Knopfler won't mind, but these are important words (published on Facebook) on the subject of Al.

With AI now writing the lion’s share of Dire Straits BS on social media, the real history, for what little it’s worth, is rapidly evaporating. That the truth is going begging in something as trivial as this arguably matters little - although for me it’s resulting in a defamatory narrative to some degree in the lean it encourages - but what is this going to do to less trivial facts when the pressures to invent noise over signal to obtain commercialised views leads to important historical facts being  skewed?
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

Offlinemariosboss

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Well Google has a vested interest.
But I'm not arguing it is harder. Of course anyone can upload their song to Youtube in an instant, anyone can upload their music to Spotify after paying a small fee. It's never been easier. But it's never been harder to be seen and heard, and never been harder to actually live off your art.
90% of music uploaded to Spotify is never streamed, you have to have a million streams to earn minimum wage.
With a mountain of independent uploads to Youtube and streaming, music fans have given up trawling through hours of terrible amateur music. That is why it is crucial to get on a curated playlist - so we're back to the old label paradigm, except it's influencers who have all the power, not passionate music lovers like radio DJ's.
That's the absolute reality I'm seeing for myself. In the 80's I worked with many niche artists who made living from music. These days everyone is owned by the streaming algorithm and niche artists are giving upon surviving on pennies.
There is no chance of another Dire Straits, because streaming promotes music people ALREADY love, that's how the algorithm works. Sultans Of Swing sounded completely different to the popular music of the late 70's. So Spotify wouldn't promote it to listeners, it would bury it.

You are of course pretty much spot on.
There's so much music out there it's over-saturated as you said, hours of terrible amateur recordings, and i'm probably within that catagory as I learned the very basics in lockdown having been made redundant from my job, and bitter about it had plenty to write about (amongst other stuff.) I've always written music since I was a kid, recording on cassette tape, laughable, BUT for about £300 as that was my budget I bought the DAW I needed, speakers, mic and Pre-amp to record what I thought at the time sounded like a proper bombastic album. Bedroom recording but with all the bells... guitar layers, samples etc. my big big issue however has always been programmed drums. Making them sound real. I hate them in some respects, and I can spot them a mile off regarding albums in my record collection but in lockdown my best mate who is a drummer was not available so I had to explore the drum options on my own. I have to say there are samples and programmed stuff available that sound pretty good to my ears but of course nowhere near as good as back in the day, certainly not for the budget I was prepared to pay (not much.) I also read and listened to the stuff you have done Chris, regarding library recordings / samples which sounds superb.

The thing is on the upside it's easier to get your music out there, but that's about it. My word. It's utterly pointless having it on all the mainstream streaming services and digital sites in terms of money or recognition unless you have a huge budget to promote it, but it is accessible at the same time. For me I released my stuff on bandcamp and also made 100 CD's which sounds laughable but I have always loved physical music with all the linear notes, who plays what and where it was recorded etc.

That period to be honest was such a great form of escapism for me and whilst the two albums I did record were full of flaws I'm proud that I managed to get those tracks out and to the point they sound like songs accompanied by a proper band (i'm told from the very few have listened to the songs who cannot believe it's a one man show), albeit with some slightly dodgy sounding drum tracks. 

These days I have a band that plays with me now thankfully and we are looking to record as a 3-piece going forward. My bassist is an extremely talented musician and a miles better guitarist than I will ever be, he was in an underground act called Into A Circle back in the early 90's that had some success, however after years of playing in covers bands he's grown sick of that and would rather play original music. We are looking to just play the pub and small reputable circuit supporting up and coming bands, we will never make it but such is life. The thing is though Many hit songs rely on similar chord progressions. So that era you played in Chris was probably the pinnacle. It won't get better. How can it? Think about music beforehand, think about where we are in terms of life and humanity. I'm not trying to say you were fortunate as you had to battle out with other superb musicians but for me the halcyon days of top music is gone. Yes re-inventions will happen and micro genres will be created, but the reality is there are only a certain amount of chords. The good days are over but that won't stop me writing songs, recording them and playing those tracks live like i'm at Wembley stadium even though the reality is it's in front of 1 man, his dog and a pint of overpriced craft beer.

Best wishes.

 

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