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Author Topic: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.  (Read 5609 times)

Onlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #75 on: September 09, 2025, 10:09:01 AM »
This leaves us with the John Illsley's book as the more accurate, which makes it very much needed that Ed writes his own!

John's book wasn't written by a member of the band either ;)

I didn't get the joke until Ed's answer, LOL

Very good one, Dusty!

Many a true word hath been spoken in jest...
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OfflineBrunno Nunes

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #76 on: September 09, 2025, 11:11:17 PM »
You never saw the brothers on stage did you?
As I've said before it was quartet with three people in it.
Records were different eg Muff’s input cannot be overstated.


With all due respect, dear Ed, I wasn't actually there to see the brothers play live (I was still in daddy's testicles👻), but I can only understand when you say "it was a quartet with three people in it" due to what you inevitably had to give behind the scenes of the band (personalities, interests, ego...). Are you referring to the band live, too?

What's clear to me is that the internal problems and the astral hell that occurred during the (Ayatollah☠️) era, didn't compromise the live performances, the same thing happened during the (Genghis Khan👹) era, the band always delivered a great show throughout its history.

Muff Winwood once quoted a statement he made about David Knopfler in a 2005 BBC UK documentary you participated in, which has contributed to what I've seen to this day. I believe the words of the man who produced DS's first album and those of other music legends are a counterbalance to those who think DK was a weak guitarist. I'll leave the link here.

https://youtu.be/csDfO_dLHhg?si=pVENSlHsvfOslVxb

You are an integral part of the band's history; your position allows for an infinitely broader perspective than any of us. With the utmost respect, I agree with everything you said, except that it was a quartet with three people in it, at least live, behind the scenes. I'm not stupid enough to doubt that.

Changing the subject a bit (let's not forget), where are the tapes? I can't wait to see the full concert videos (in ascending order:)🫣

1st Rainbow Theatre 79
2nd Paris 83
3rd Alchemy (with Portobello Belle, a beautiful arrangement with Mel Collins in duet with Mark.)

Of course, so you don't miss the fun of the tapes.🫶🏻

Be well, Ed, and thank you for taking the time to shed so much light on the information for all of us.🙌🏻
« Last Edit: September 09, 2025, 11:20:27 PM by Brunno Nunes »
Let's go down to the waterline!

my blog : https://universodirestraits.blogspot.com

Onlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #77 on: September 10, 2025, 09:48:17 AM »
A reply to Brunno's post 76 from Ed, thank you Ed:
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

Onlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #78 on: September 10, 2025, 09:48:41 AM »
Hi Brunno
I'm going to respond to your reply 76 because I think we have a slight  translation issue here which is probably my fault.


Please wear something to absorb your inevitable urine flow.
THIS IS SPINAL TAP MADE REAL. IN TECHNICOLOUR.

IF you had seen the original quartet LIVE at any point between 1977 Dec ( first time I did) up to the Rainbow 1979 Dec you would have immediately noticed that David was virtually inaudible.
HE COULD NOT BE HEARD.
NOT EVEN BY AN ALSATIAN at 5 feet distance.

At that Dingwall's show 13/12/77 I said to John Stainze the Phonogram a and r guy who took me to see them “ I can see four people but I can only hear three, what’s gong on?"
“ That's because David Knopfler won't turn his amp up, BUT WE CAN FIX THAT.” (Typical record company).
“ Is he the one hiding behind the pillar?”
“ Yes, that's him, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT” (Little did he know.)

Hence my quote about 4 and 3.

I am not talking about the records they made or the live gig films because they were “fixed” afterwards when the sound was mixed but I can tell you the amp situation esp on Communique in the studio was the same leading to some classic comments from Barry Beckett “ David, shit or get off the pot” was one I particularly remember.
It was driving EVERYBODY nuts!
.
So I was only referring to live gigs which I think you misunderstood.

My apologies.

Throughout his period in DS there was an ongoing and nightly backstage battle between our great and infinitely patient FOH sound-man Peter Granger RIP and Mark and David about the volume setting on David’s amp which was so low that it was barely registering a signal and Pete had his desk channel ( ie David’s) on 10 ie no more to give.
David's line was that if he turned up, Mark turned up and he, David, was consequently going deaf.
Given they weren’t even a loud band then, this was absurd but sowed the seeds for what followed on the MM sessions and D’s departure ( a different but equally surreal reason).

This led to nightly arguments between the brothers ( Pick always left the room, John ignored) and Pete , Pete Murdoch ( backline) and I devised a system at Durham University whereby Pete Murdoch would HIDE behind David’s amp and turn it up whenever David turned it down and Peter Granger would compensate on the FOH desk accordingly.
Are you following this?
So the sound went up and down like a yo yo every few minutes when David realised his amp volume was on 8/9 ( set by Pete M ) and turned it down to say 5/6 with Peter Granger pushing his FOH channel setting up to 10 and down to 6 or 7 and so on.

As far as Muff’s comments they are about the SONGS D was writing and M’s unwillingness to include them on album 1 ( or Communique ).
Neither Muff nor I spoke about David’s abilities as a guitar player. I am a drummer. I do not know or care about his strumming.

David then started complaining to me about FLYING because the cabin air pressure was causing him to go deaf!
I told him to hold his nose and blow down.
These were 60-90 min flights into Europe for fux sake.
He continued moaning because of reasons only he knows.  Attention seeking?

So…do you understand when D is mentioned that I get anxious, feel ill, want to put my head in the toilet and flush it?
WHY he was like this only he can tell you and he will likely deny or sidestep.
I couldn’t care less.

As for tapes ..your optimism is commendable. Step forward for your medal.

I’m signing off on this thread. I may return when I have recovered from this bout of David-ticulitis which is making my testicles distend. 🌰🌰
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

Offlinewayaman

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #79 on: September 10, 2025, 02:57:48 PM »
Brilliant answer, Ed.

OfflineBarrow boy

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #80 on: September 10, 2025, 05:09:43 PM »
Wow, that's really some new insights, a lot of questions got answered and a lot more will rise. Thanks Ed!

OfflineRobson

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #81 on: September 11, 2025, 12:51:57 AM »
Wow! Here we have one of the most important accounts of what really happened in our beloved band. Thank you Ed.
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Clear as the day
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Onlineqjamesfloyd

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #82 on: September 11, 2025, 08:55:43 AM »
Having read every single comment by Ed over the months, it has got me wondering as to why he was their manager at all, and why he stuck around so long!!!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2025, 10:37:34 AM by qjamesfloyd »
Knopfler, Oldfield and Gilmour is all the guitar I need.

Onlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #83 on: September 11, 2025, 10:06:18 AM »
Having read every single comment by Ed over the months, it has got me wondering as to why he was there manager at all, and why he stuck around so long!!!

Seems like we as fans are like gossipy fishwives "digging up the dirt" and Ed invariably gets asked about controversial stuff.

If you listen to the podcast interviews Ed did they are overall much more positive about the whole experience.
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OfflineChris W

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #84 on: September 11, 2025, 02:05:36 PM »
yes, the day to day normal tedium doesn't get talked about much.
Also, a manager's job is to 'manage'. If there were no tricky circumstances and additionally many decisions to make, big and small, there would be no need for managers.

Offlinewayaman

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #85 on: September 11, 2025, 03:17:28 PM »
yes, the day to day normal tedium doesn't get talked about much.
Also, a manager's job is to 'manage'. If there were no tricky circumstances and additionally many decisions to make, big and small, there would be no need for managers.

Exactly, lol

Onlineqjamesfloyd

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #86 on: September 11, 2025, 04:43:02 PM »
yes, the day to day normal tedium doesn't get talked about much.
Also, a manager's job is to 'manage'. If there were no tricky circumstances and additionally many decisions to make, big and small, there would be no need for managers.

I just mean, he doesn't have much that is positive to mention, surely there was something in all those years!!
Knopfler, Oldfield and Gilmour is all the guitar I need.

Onlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #87 on: September 11, 2025, 07:56:24 PM »
The reply below is from Ed Bicknell, many thanks again Ed.
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

Onlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #88 on: September 11, 2025, 07:56:49 PM »
I cannot let the comments on my reply to Brunno’s response 76 go by without comment.

Firstly, I note that Brunno himself hasn’t commented on what I said even though I was DIRECTLY answering the points he raised in 76 ie about David K’s role on live appearances.
What I said is entirely correct, not exaggerated and was not intended to be a comment on DK’s abilities as a guitarist which is subjective anyway.
Hello Brunno..are you there? Ok I hope.

Replies 79, 80, 81, thank you, appreciated.

Now, reply 82 from James Floyd.
I’m going to assume you are serious. If it’s a joke accept my apology in advance because I'm going to be blunt , the most direct I’ve been on this site to date.

You really have no idea what a manager does do you?

The reason I took them on was because I passionately loved the music and liked and BELIEVED in the original band from the start. Well 3 of them anyway, at the very first meeting I knew D was going to be a pain and that the brothers thing was likely to become an issue. IT WAS OBVIOUS within 15 minutes.

Anyway they must have recognised that because in turn they signed up with me from choice.
None of us forced ourselves on each other and although I didn't learn until much later only one person, D, was not in favour, apparently I was bonkers and didn't know what I was doing ..pot calling kettle black perhaps?
Of course he wasn’t in favour, why?, because MK WAS (and John and Pick).

That's made abundantly clear in John’s book ( that bit is correct ) and David has criticised me on YT implying the way I managed them was to make money for myself.
OF COURSE IT FUCKING WAS!  I was getting a % of what they were ALL getting including him and he did very well as a consequence of my efforts even though he was virtually inaudible on the live shows and via his then wife made entirely untrue and incorrect comments on a public website about me and Mark which I've dealt with elsewhere ( and you only have half that story…..it got way worse ).
But because he couldn’t handle the success (not everyone can) I got BLAMED for getting it right.
Actually I don’t care what he thinks, he’s entitled to his opinions however perverse.

Management in a sound bite is about turning the “art” into commerce.
But uniquely in the creative arts the product is not a pen or a brick or a chair, it is directly produced and communicated to the customer…...in this case the audience…..by human beings.
And every human being/artist brings many things to the table, talent, drive, personality, ego, baggage, suitcases full of fetid underwear.
DS were no exception.

In my comments on AMIT ( and Chris’, and Joop's, and Jack’s) all of us have been trying to give you a picture of HOW IT WAS at various stages, in my case the entire DS career. .
Not the idealised ...through rose coloured glasses view many ( not all ) of you seem to have that the participants are somehow excused from being assholes, difficult, arrogant, narcissistic, selfish, jealous, mean, miserable, grumpy, self -centred twats, qualities ALL of us possess to a greater or lesser degree, including me.

So…I chose a career in music which followed from Elvis and drumming ( actually it chose me).
I was a pretty successful agent when I met them and took them on for the reasons given.
I didn’t need them, they needed me or somebody like me.
Being a manager is HIGH RISK.
They could have failed, broken up, been hit by a bus.
But we all persevered and together we succeeded especially after D left.

Sometimes it got very bumpy but you don’t just give up and throw in the towel which you seem to be surprised by, almost why did I bother?.
It wasn’t a job, IT WAS MY LIFE.
For 24 years near enough. Every day 7 days a week pretty much and almost every day there would be some issue/problem to solve and 90% of the time that would be brought about by the dynamic between them, or the crew, or by the record company, or promoter or whoever.
And it’s relentless.
As Chris’ comment alludes to, and yes, it's tedious, boring, a slog most of the time and the by product is money but way more it’s living the dream and I got to live mine and I assume they got to live theirs at least up to OES and then M thereafter.
But glamorous..YOU MUST BE KIDDING ME!

If you asked ANY other manager…any in the entire history of pop music …you would hear similar tales about people who in public seem positively pleasant , angelic almost.
But let me assure you, artists are bonkers , they almost HAVE to be .
As Bill Curbishley says , “when God gives out talent, he takes something away, and it’s my job to replace whatever that is.”
That's what we do.
Got it?
And in response to your latest comment, of course much…most was fun, positive, funny , productive, lucrative, sexy even but I’m answering the questions you lot ask as honestly as I can, do you want me to produce happy go luck responses to fit in with your perceptions?
As I said, you really have no idea what a manager does and there's no reason why you should, but when I and others tell you the facts ACCEPT THEM.

Nothing personal but you need to wake up and smell the shit.


"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

Onlineqjamesfloyd

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Re: Pick Withers Live - 78 and 81. A Musical Analysis.
« Reply #89 on: September 11, 2025, 08:03:02 PM »
I wasn't joking, but that's me told.
Knopfler, Oldfield and Gilmour is all the guitar I need.

 

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