A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Robson on February 15, 2024, 03:51:06 PM
-
Latest interview.
Alan Clark gave an interview to "Teraz Rock" magazine. I thought this excerpt was interesting and perhaps a bit controversial and debatable: Alan Clark assesses the misguided direction Dire Straits went in
"I was not enthusiastic about it, although pedal steel guitar player Paul Franklin is an excellent musician and it was great working with him. In my opinion, however, there are too many country elements on the album. I generally saw it as the wrong direction for Dire Straits. But at the time, Mark was fascinated to the maximum by the sounds of Nashville...
-
Opinions, opinions ...
LE
-
I have a lot of respect for Alan, but like any company, when the boss gives directions and instructions, we apply them and keep quiet, which is a pity of course.
-
I thought overusing Paul Franklin in this period was a general consensus, not just Alan's opinion. On the other hand, if you take a musician with you on the road for so many shows, are you going to use his skills for a couple of songs or give him some room? And what he would do the rest of the show in plan A, just chill?
Besides, pedal steel is not strictly country. If anything, Paul Franklin is more of a jazz player playing a 'country' instrument. It's like calling Béla Fleck a country musician because he's playing a banjo. So I don't get it. Dire Straits always had a lot of country inspiration, and "Nashville sound" to me is not as much about the country as a musical style, as much as a production technique focused on virtuosity and attention to detail.
-
I have huge respect for Alan's DS work, also on Local Hero, and he really moved MK forward. But nowadays, I'm so tired of the man. He hasn't released anything for the past 30 years, and when he does, it's an album full of MK covers. He has the same problem as David, desperately trying to keep the 'Straits-sound' alive, whatever they think it is or where they thought it was going.
Also, he was a producer on OES, so if he didn't like the sound, he should have done something about it or rejected his role as a producer if he didn't have a thing to say. It is easy to grab money from it but not take responsibility for it.
-
I thought overusing Paul Franklin in this period was a general consensus, not just Alan's opinion. On the other hand, if you take a musician with you on the road for so many shows, are you going to use his skills for a couple of songs or give him some room? And what he would do the rest of the show in plan A, just chill?
Besides, pedal steel is not strictly country. If anything, Paul Franklin is more of a jazz player playing a 'country' instrument. It's like calling Béla Fleck a country musician because he's playing a banjo. So I don't get it. Dire Straits always had a lot of country inspiration, and "Nashville sound" to me is not as much about the country as a musical style, as much as a production technique focused on virtuosity and attention to detail.
This is all true, but the album on every street, whether you like it or not, is marked by country music. The most. I like it, but I understand that after the Brothers In Arms album, some people were surprised by a different direction. Sometimes I wonder what this album would be like if it weren't for the two previous albums Missing... and Neck And Neck
-
I will add that the interview was published in connection with the DSLegacy concert.
-
Paul Franklin was one of the best aspects of the show IMO. Mark gave Paul so much to play because he 1) highly respected Paul as a player and 2) enjoyed listening to Paul play.
-
Latest interview.
Alan Clark gave an interview to "Teraz Rock" magazine. I thought this excerpt was interesting and perhaps a bit controversial and debatable: Alan Clark assesses the misguided direction Dire Straits went in
"I was not enthusiastic about it, although pedal steel guitar player Paul Franklin is an excellent musician and it was great working with him. In my opinion, however, there are too many country elements on the album. I generally saw it as the wrong direction for Dire Straits. But at the time, Mark was fascinated to the maximum by the sounds of Nashville...
I don't see the problem, it's just his opinion and nothing else, he didn't like the direction the band went but it was MK band so, they went that way.
What's wrong with that?
-
I quoted this excerpt from the interview because I had never before read such an unequivocal opinion from a band musician about the album.
-
Paul Franklin was one of the best aspects of the show IMO. Mark gave Paul so much to play because he 1) highly respected Paul as a player and 2) enjoyed listening to Paul play.
Chris thank you for your opinion :)
-
Alan is right. While some may of course like the country-tinge, most fans, regardless of whether they joined the DS fanbase after the first album, Making Movies, LOG, or BIA, were hardly hoping for that. It does not dominate OES, but it is clearly there, and never has so much soloing on a tour been left/given to another player.
There was also an, at times, somewhat jarring mix between going in the straightforward rock direction with something like Heavy Fuel, and having a pedal steel noodling in the background over distorted guitars.
-
After the overly commercial BIA album (just my opinion) I really enjoyed the OES album, especially Paul's contribution in particular was absolutely magnificient.
Since the debut, country/folk elements have always been a part of Mark's music and later, when he was in Nashville for some time, it was more or less to be expected that the album would sound like this.
So it wasn't a big surprise for me.
-
Latest interview.
"I was not enthusiastic about it, although pedal steel guitar player Paul Franklin is an excellent musician and it was great working with him. In my opinion, however, there are too many country elements on the album. I generally saw it as the wrong direction for Dire Straits. But at the time, Mark was fascinated to the maximum by the sounds of Nashville...
On the road again in cabaret
Grey hair and Fenders (Rhodes ;))
Old ghosts revisited today
No original members
-
It's easy to make fun of Alan because people automatically side with Mark, but it feels refreshing that someone speaks his mind, for a change.
"Best album ever..." ;D
-
He has the same problem as David, desperately trying to keep the 'Straits-sound' alive, whatever they think it is or where they thought it was going.
I see no problem with 'keeping the DS sound alive'.
He (Alan) is making some money for some time with very less effort, i mean, he is playing the same thing over the years and making money with it. It's fun and, for good or bad, he is bringing the Dire Straits to people who would never have a chance to see it.
Alan is a big figure thru the DS history, his influence on 80's MK is clear as day.
I believe that Alan didn't want to leave Eric's band do re-join DS.
After 93/94, i believe that he chooses to not be on a major artist's band.
The thing with Alan is that he is like a Persona Non Grata for most of MK fans and, maybe, for MK himself.
I never knew why Alan didn't play on that 2002 charity concerts.
David, for me its the opposite to 'keep the DS sound alive'
His albums are almost pure sh*t until Wishbones and he still stuck on the same piano chord progression since A Father And The Son.
Except for some songs like Easy Street, David is away from the early days of Dire Straits.
Well, he needs money sometimes, so... he plays some DS songs on his shows.
-
Paul Franklin was one of the best aspects of the show IMO. Mark gave Paul so much to play because he 1) highly respected Paul as a player and 2) enjoyed listening to Paul play.
Can't blame Mark here... I can listen to Paul Franklin play forever, what a legendary cat. And his playing in songs like "The Ragpicker's Dream" or "Rüdiger" is sublime as well. With no country licks in sight!
-
Latest interview.
Alan Clark gave an interview to "Teraz Rock" magazine. I thought this excerpt was interesting and perhaps a bit controversial and debatable: Alan Clark assesses the misguided direction Dire Straits went in
"I was not enthusiastic about it, although pedal steel guitar player Paul Franklin is an excellent musician and it was great working with him. In my opinion, however, there are too many country elements on the album. I generally saw it as the wrong direction for Dire Straits. But at the time, Mark was fascinated to the maximum by the sounds of Nashville...
I only read a couple of post folliwing that one but not all three pages
I understand Alan's statement.
I disagree on using the word "wrong" but this the way Alan sees it.
Alan was an active musical contributor to Dire Straits but had its owns musical tastes and they obviouly are not the same as Mark's.
Should he keep his mouth shut or can he openly speaks about his musical disagrement with Mark?
The OLT was a major change in Dire Straits sounds.
It was almost another band, not 100% for the better, but lot of interesting thing.
There is still a shadow about why Alan post Dire Straits career did not went big. Not huge but big.
Not only as composer or music contributor, but firstly as a performer.
I mean if I had to put a band together I would dream to have someone like him to play the keys .
He was sounding so good on stage with Dire Straits.
Something out of my radar went off wih him after the Dire Straits years.
My two fave key player for Mark are Alan and Matt.
-
It's easy to make fun of Alan because people automatically side with Mark, but it feels refreshing that someone speaks his mind, for a change.
"Best album ever..." ;D
+1000
-
"I understand Alan's statement.
I disagree on using the word "wrong" but this the way Alan sees it.
Alan was an active musical contributor to Dire Straits but had its owns musical tastes and they obviouly are not the same as Mark's"
Exaclty! I agree with Alan that the album on every street is very country, but I don't agree that it's a bad direction :)
-
Alan is bigger in his own mind than real life. He talks earnestly about working with big artists but none of those doors would have opened without mk. There's a hint of this in everything he says publicly about DS....
-
I think it's a fair opinion. And, it's not like MK has ranted about DS going in wrong directions, either. "It got too big" bla bla - and so on.
If MK can rant, any member can as well. It's a band, not a one man show.
-
Did Alan and MK not do a version of Local Hero after DS disbended. Somewhere in the UK. Someting small it was but i can't remember????
-
Did Alan and MK not do a version of Local Hero after DS disbended. Somewhere in the UK. Someting small it was but i can't remember????
At least this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-LtGIcZNYg
-
Did Alan and MK not do a version of Local Hero after DS disbended. Somewhere in the UK. Someting small it was but i can't remember????
As far as I recall, last time MK and Alan did something together was in 2005, playing Wild Them at the Alan Shearer's pub near Newcastle United's stadium.
-
I've been harsh on Alan previously but I was wrong to be that way.
I don't see anything wrong with what Alan said. I disagree and love the country stuff, but I don't have any problem with him voicing an opinion.
-
It's easy to make fun of Alan because people automatically side with Mark, but it feels refreshing that someone speaks his mind, for a change.
I haven't seen anyone 'make fun' of Alan. I think the point is well made, that even Alan was an add-on to the Dire Straits line-up. By OES it was primarily Mark and John's band and a vehicle for Mark's songwriting and playing. At the end of the day, the keyboard player with Elton John or Bruce Springsteen can say they didn't like the direction of a certain album, but it's not going to carry much weight.
-
I see no problem with 'keeping the DS sound alive'.
He (Alan) is making some money for some time with very less effort, i mean, he is playing the same thing over the years and making money with it. It's fun and, for good or bad, he is bringing the Dire Straits to people who would never have a chance to see it.
I saw a run of Dire Straits Experience shows in France at the end of 2023. As far as 'keeping the DS sound alive' I'd say they are putting on an arena show infront of 3,000 to 3,500 audiences, with a full lighting rig and PA system. The show has a lot of energy and they play a large body of DS work with no solo material and no Yes or Buggles songs.
-
It's easy to make fun of Alan because people automatically side with Mark, but it feels refreshing that someone speaks his mind, for a change.
I haven't seen anyone 'make fun' of Alan. I think the point is well made, that even Alan was an add-on to the Dire Straits line-up. By OES it was primarily Mark and John's band and a vehicle for Mark's songwriting and playing. At the end of the day, the keyboard player with Elton John or Bruce Springsteen can say they didn't like the direction of a certain album, but it's not going to carry much weight.
Come on, even Mark himself made fun of Alan in his song "Terminal Of Tribute To", his harshest and dirtiest song to date. Alan Clark's reputation is questionable.
I feel bad to be harsh on Alan. The guy deserves way more than to play in a tribute band and give interviews to foreign magazines. Tribute bands are made by fans for fans, not by band members for... Whom? It's such an obvious way to abandon your dreams and make an easy living standing on someone else's shoulders, that no wonder he gets a lot of criticism. To every action, there is always opposed an equal reaction.
His playing in DS was so amazing, so unique, you could imagine him continuing touring with big acts, recording in the studio, conducting an orchestra, composing for movies, almost anything BUT playing in a tribute band with a foreign singer replacing Mark. It's just such a downfall, no song, article or opinion can justify that.
-
I understand that Alan and Guy were both creative forces in musical terms in the studio helping arrange the songs written by MK, and the three of them (I'm not sure about the input from John Illsley in musical terms) were resposible of the DS sound, I totally understand Alan saying he thought it was a wrong direction to go sounding Nashville for DS as that was never the DS sound not even in the early days that despite sounding American, they were not country, but in the end Alan words also means despite he didn't like the country flavour, they went that way because althought he had an important say musically, MK was the boss.
I don't see anything wrong telling he didn't like that, it's just his opinion, and many fans thinks the same. Actually many say OES is almost like the first MK solo record as it has a big variety of styles for the first time in DS.
-
I understand that Alan and Guy were both creative forces in musical terms in the studio helping arrange the songs written by MK, and the three of them (I'm not sure about the input from John Illsley in musical terms) were resposible of the DS sound, I totally understand Alan saying he thought it was a wrong direction to go sounding Nashville for DS as that was never the DS sound not even in the early days that despite sounding American, they were not country, but in the end Alan words also means despite he didn't like the country flavour, they went that way because althought he had an important say musically, MK was the boss.
I don't see anything wrong telling he didn't like that, it's just his opinion, and many fans thinks the same. Actually many say OES is almost like the first MK solo record as it has a big variety of styles for the first time in DS.
I find it hilarious that one can criticise DS for going in the wrong direction when the band evolved so much in the short amount of time it had, always getting bigger and bigger, it makes you think what exactly is the "right" direction? It went from a basic 4-piece to an orchestra in 10 years.
They should've kept the formula, added even more musicians or what? If you keep the formula, then the OES tour would sound exactly like the previous tour, and it would make the OES tour even more redundant. So overall, not a lot of choices there, to be honest.
Mark's songs grew in complexity and required more and more musicians, a lot of them came from Nashville, which was the direction MK was going to. Remember, by this time he recorded The Notting Hillbillies record and Chet Atkins collaboration, both of which are filled with country and Nashville sound. No, they are country records!
And here comes Alan, surprised (WOW) that DS went into the country territory. Who could think that would happen, OMG. What a plot twist!
-
I understand that Alan and Guy were both creative forces in musical terms in the studio helping arrange the songs written by MK, and the three of them (I'm not sure about the input from John Illsley in musical terms) were resposible of the DS sound, I totally understand Alan saying he thought it was a wrong direction to go sounding Nashville for DS as that was never the DS sound not even in the early days that despite sounding American, they were not country, but in the end Alan words also means despite he didn't like the country flavour, they went that way because althought he had an important say musically, MK was the boss.
I don't see anything wrong telling he didn't like that, it's just his opinion, and many fans thinks the same. Actually many say OES is almost like the first MK solo record as it has a big variety of styles for the first time in DS.
I find it hilarious that one can criticise DS for going in the wrong direction when the band evolved so much in the short amount of time it had, always getting bigger and bigger, it makes you think what exactly is the "right" direction? It went from a basic 4-piece to an orchestra in 10 years.
They should've kept the formula, added even more musicians or what? If you keep the formula, then the OES tour would sound exactly like the previous tour, and it would make the OES tour even more redundant. So overall, not a lot of choices there, to be honest.
Mark's songs grew in complexity and required more and more musicians, a lot of them came from Nashville, which was the direction MK was going to. Remember, by this time he recorded The Notting Hillbillies record and Chet Atkins collaboration, both of which are filled with country and Nashville sound. No, they are country records!
And here comes Alan, surprised (WOW) that DS went into the country territory. Who could think that would happen, OMG. What a plot twist!
Not me.
For me that one of the best rock bands of the time went country flavoured was indeed weird.
That MK did that in his solo career, logical.
Alan is not surprised, actually he says MK was was fascinated to the maximum by the sounds of Nashville, no, Alan doesn't says he came surprised, only that from what DS was and was doing he thought that wasn't the right direction.
I'm amazed how too many times people twist the words that anyone that is not MK says to defend MK as he needed to be defended...
Also saying that he thought it wasn't the right way for the band is not critize, it's give an opinion. Again it's amazing how some people interpretate anything as a critic or an attack.
-
I understand that Alan and Guy were both creative forces in musical terms in the studio helping arrange the songs written by MK, and the three of them (I'm not sure about the input from John Illsley in musical terms) were resposible of the DS sound, I totally understand Alan saying he thought it was a wrong direction to go sounding Nashville for DS as that was never the DS sound not even in the early days that despite sounding American, they were not country, but in the end Alan words also means despite he didn't like the country flavour, they went that way because althought he had an important say musically, MK was the boss.
I don't see anything wrong telling he didn't like that, it's just his opinion, and many fans thinks the same. Actually many say OES is almost like the first MK solo record as it has a big variety of styles for the first time in DS.
I find it hilarious that one can criticise DS for going in the wrong direction when the band evolved so much in the short amount of time it had, always getting bigger and bigger, it makes you think what exactly is the "right" direction? It went from a basic 4-piece to an orchestra in 10 years.
They should've kept the formula, added even more musicians or what? If you keep the formula, then the OES tour would sound exactly like the previous tour, and it would make the OES tour even more redundant. So overall, not a lot of choices there, to be honest.
Mark's songs grew in complexity and required more and more musicians, a lot of them came from Nashville, which was the direction MK was going to. Remember, by this time he recorded The Notting Hillbillies record and Chet Atkins collaboration, both of which are filled with country and Nashville sound. No, they are country records!
And here comes Alan, surprised (WOW) that DS went into the country territory. Who could think that would happen, OMG. What a plot twist!
Not me.
For me that one of the best rock bands of the time went country flavoured was indeed weird.
That MK did that in his solo career, logical.
Alan is not surprised, actually he says MK was was fascinated to the maximum by the sounds of Nashville, no, Alan doesn't says he came surprised, only that from what DS was and was doing he thought that wasn't the right direction.
I'm amazed how too many times people twist the words that anyone that is not MK says to defend MK as he needed to be defended...
Also saying that he thought it wasn't the right way for the band is not critize, it's give an opinion. Again it's amazing how some people interpretate anything as a critic or an attack.
It doesn't change the fact Alan is playing in a freaking tribute band. Anything you can say gets destroyed when this fact comes into the picture. Whether you fan of Mark or not, I think going to the tribute route is a mistake. And for tribute bands, going the route of hiring "original band members" is a mistake. All criticism of Alan goes from this, should he not be doing what he's doing, he'd be cherished and adored like any other adequate ex-DS member. Alan, on the other hand, seems like wanted to have his own Dire Straits. Now he has it! With a catch...
-
I understand that Alan and Guy were both creative forces in musical terms in the studio helping arrange the songs written by MK, and the three of them (I'm not sure about the input from John Illsley in musical terms) were resposible of the DS sound, I totally understand Alan saying he thought it was a wrong direction to go sounding Nashville for DS as that was never the DS sound not even in the early days that despite sounding American, they were not country, but in the end Alan words also means despite he didn't like the country flavour, they went that way because althought he had an important say musically, MK was the boss.
I don't see anything wrong telling he didn't like that, it's just his opinion, and many fans thinks the same. Actually many say OES is almost like the first MK solo record as it has a big variety of styles for the first time in DS.
I find it hilarious that one can criticise DS for going in the wrong direction when the band evolved so much in the short amount of time it had, always getting bigger and bigger, it makes you think what exactly is the "right" direction? It went from a basic 4-piece to an orchestra in 10 years.
They should've kept the formula, added even more musicians or what? If you keep the formula, then the OES tour would sound exactly like the previous tour, and it would make the OES tour even more redundant. So overall, not a lot of choices there, to be honest.
Mark's songs grew in complexity and required more and more musicians, a lot of them came from Nashville, which was the direction MK was going to. Remember, by this time he recorded The Notting Hillbillies record and Chet Atkins collaboration, both of which are filled with country and Nashville sound. No, they are country records!
And here comes Alan, surprised (WOW) that DS went into the country territory. Who could think that would happen, OMG. What a plot twist!
Not me.
For me that one of the best rock bands of the time went country flavoured was indeed weird.
That MK did that in his solo career, logical.
Alan is not surprised, actually he says MK was was fascinated to the maximum by the sounds of Nashville, no, Alan doesn't says he came surprised, only that from what DS was and was doing he thought that wasn't the right direction.
I'm amazed how too many times people twist the words that anyone that is not MK says to defend MK as he needed to be defended...
Also saying that he thought it wasn't the right way for the band is not critize, it's give an opinion. Again it's amazing how some people interpretate anything as a critic or an attack.
It doesn't change the fact Alan is playing in a freaking tribute band. Anything you can say gets destroyed when this fact comes into the picture. Whether you fan of Mark or not, I think going to the tribute route is a mistake. And for tribute bands, going the route of hiring "original band members" is a mistake. All criticism of Alan goes from this, should he not be doing what he's doing, he'd be cherished and adored like any other adequate ex-DS member. Alan, on the other hand, seems like wanted to have his own Dire Straits. Now he has it! With a catch...
He's a proffesional musicians that get paid for playing, any session or live gig is a session or live gig.
And he's not doing anything different to Danny Cummings, who plays in the same band that Alan.
And apparently MK greeted Alan on his piano solo record.
But each to its own.
-
Country was there from the very start. Setting Me Up is a country song. Not sure why anyone would be surprised to hear country-ish stuff from DS after that.
-
He's a proffesional musicians that get paid for playing, any session or live gig is a session or live gig.
And he's not doing anything different to Danny Cummings, who plays in the same band that Alan.
And apparently MK greeted Alan on his piano solo record.
But each to its own.
Danny is a unique specimen, I think he's just so diplomatic he can hang out and play with anybody. He never said anything controversial, he never was a founder or a musical director of tribute acts, and he is a session musician enjoying playing good songs. John Illsley played with tribute acts, and almost all of them did. Tribute acts are not a problem, attitude is. AC said so many obnoxious and controversial things over the years, and was so sure MK is just a little part of DS, that this legacy (excuse the term) continues to this day. Even when DSL released their album, they called it "3 Chord Trick" apparently as a diss on Mark's ability to write simple similar songs. If this is not effed-up, then I don't know what is.
-
He's a proffesional musicians that get paid for playing, any session or live gig is a session or live gig.
And he's not doing anything different to Danny Cummings, who plays in the same band that Alan.
And apparently MK greeted Alan on his piano solo record.
But each to its own.
Danny is a unique specimen, I think he's just so diplomatic he can hang out and play with anybody. He never said anything controversial, he never was a founder or a musical director of tribute acts, and he is a session musician enjoying playing good songs. John Illsley played with tribute acts, and almost all of them did. Tribute acts are not a problem, attitude is. AC said so many obnoxious and controversial things over the years, and was so sure MK is just a little part of DS, that this legacy (excuse the term) continues to this day. Even when DSL released their album, they called it "3 Chord Trick" apparently as a diss on Mark's ability to write simple similar songs. If this is not effed-up, then I don't know what is.
Funily, 3 chord trick is an autobiographical song of Phil Palmer.
It's also amazing how some people are so ready to interpretate anything some people like David, Pick, Alan or Phil says as controversial, and it doesn't matter any explanation, nothing would change the prejudice against anything they do or say. I'm sure that if any of them sneeze, that would be a controversial one against MK in any way.
It's really boring.
-
Country was there from the very start. Setting Me Up is a country song. Not sure why anyone would be surprised to hear country-ish stuff from DS after that.
Well, I'm not an expert but the early Straits sounds to me more influenced by J.J.Cale style of music than country or Nashville, and since that DS had been moving forward in a more rock oriented version, kind of progressive with LOG and lonf of AOR with BIA, but going country... I thought that it was just a side apart of MK for his other projects like the Chet record, the NHB record and tour and his session works in Nashville, didn't think he would add anything of that into DS.
-
Alan is bigger in his own mind than real life. He talks earnestly about working with big artists but none of those doors would have opened without mk. There's a hint of this in everything he says publicly about DS....
Alan joined DS because he is an amazing player.
His contribution on MK's music was huge.
His inputs thru the songs are amazing.
I think that, on Dire Straits, his inputs are on level of brilhantism Mark's guitars.
Even GF said that the recording of Local Hero soundtrack (the best from MK) was based on Mark/Alan extensive experimentation.
Not MK, not Alan, but both.
Everyone needs a first platform. DS was/is the first step for him to play with Eric, Dylan, Harrison, Bee Gees, Tina...
OK, most of them happened because MK.
Don't forget. MK is an artist/composer, Alan is a keyboard player.
Mark is a genius, Alan brought his insane musicallity to MK's music sounded better as they can. So, his work with Mark opened doors for him to work with other people.
I believe that he was tired to be on A Game and gave to himself a calm life.
-
He's a proffesional musicians that get paid for playing, any session or live gig is a session or live gig.
And he's not doing anything different to Danny Cummings, who plays in the same band that Alan.
And apparently MK greeted Alan on his piano solo record.
But each to its own.
Danny is a unique specimen, I think he's just so diplomatic he can hang out and play with anybody. He never said anything controversial, he never was a founder or a musical director of tribute acts, and he is a session musician enjoying playing good songs. John Illsley played with tribute acts, and almost all of them did. Tribute acts are not a problem, attitude is. AC said so many obnoxious and controversial things over the years, and was so sure MK is just a little part of DS, that this legacy (excuse the term) continues to this day. Even when DSL released their album, they called it "3 Chord Trick" apparently as a diss on Mark's ability to write simple similar songs. If this is not effed-up, then I don't know what is.
Funily, 3 chord trick is an autobiographical song of Phil Palmer.
It's also amazing how some people are so ready to interpretate anything some people like David, Pick, Alan or Phil says as controversial, and it doesn't matter any explanation, nothing would change the prejudice against anything they do or say. I'm sure that if any of them sneeze, that would be a controversial one against MK in any way.
It's really boring.
I'm afraid it's you being too diplomatic and kind to all these guys. It's not interpretation, it's literally one of the reasons they called it the "3 Chord Trick", I remember learning this in one of their interviews. I'm not making stuff up, remember? Just like you can't wrongly interpret Mark's "Terminal Of Tribute To", it's not exactly a love song.
You're right that anything these guys, who were caught saying or doing obnoxious things, are going to be scrutinized. At least David still writes his own songs and enjoys his own success, and not playing in his bro's tribute band. I have absolutely no problems with David, but I do with Alan, Phil and Chris White. Pick is verging on the border of falling into despair and sometimes says strange things we discussed in other threads and plays in tributes more.
Not everybody is a saint like Hal Lindes or Danny Cummings, these guys nobody ever criticised. And there are reasons why.
-
I saw a run of Dire Straits Experience shows in France at the end of 2023. As far as 'keeping the DS sound alive' I'd say they are putting on an arena show infront of 3,000 to 3,500 audiences, with a full lighting rig and PA system. The show has a lot of energy and they play a large body of DS work with no solo material and no Yes or Buggles songs.
My dear friend Brunno Nunes saw one or two DSL concerts and he liked very much.
Full of energy, a Rock Concert.
And he lent his LOG t-shirt to Alan.
Very nice from Alan
-
Country was there from the very start. Setting Me Up is a country song. Not sure why anyone would be surprised to hear country-ish stuff from DS after that.
Well, I'm not an expert but the early Straits sounds to me more influenced by J.J.Cale style of music than country or Nashville, and since that DS had been moving forward in a more rock oriented version, kind of progressive with LOG and lonf of AOR with BIA, but going country... I thought that it was just a side apart of MK for his other projects like the Chet record, the NHB record and tour and his session works in Nashville, didn't think he would add anything of that into DS.
I agree with Dusty. Setting me up sounds clearly country. It's not a coincidence if it was covered by Albert Lee
I hear country influences in Communiqué, Portobello Bell, That's the way it always start, Walk of life...
I planned to write an article about Mark and country style
-
Country was there from the very start. Setting Me Up is a country song. Not sure why anyone would be surprised to hear country-ish stuff from DS after that.
Well, I'm not an expert but the early Straits sounds to me more influenced by J.J.Cale style of music than country or Nashville, and since that DS had been moving forward in a more rock oriented version, kind of progressive with LOG and lonf of AOR with BIA, but going country... I thought that it was just a side apart of MK for his other projects like the Chet record, the NHB record and tour and his session works in Nashville, didn't think he would add anything of that into DS.
I agree with Dusty. Setting me up sounds clearly country. It's not a coincidence if it was covered by Albert Lee
I hear country influences in Communiqué, Portobello Bell, That's the way it always start, Walk of life...
I planned to write an article about Mark and country style
Not just Albert Lee, Waylon Jennings as well.
Of course DS was "influenced" by DS (MK basically stole his act), but I don't think I've heard anything as country as Setting Me Up by JJ Cale. Just listen to the guitar. Pure country.
And I never bought the story that Three Chord Trick wasn't about MK...
-
And I never bought the story that Three Chord Trick wasn't about MK...
Actually Phil talks about that 3 chord trick very very often in his book and that was way before the record, always pointing to himself.
But anyone is free to interpretate whatever wants about whatever.
-
The book was 2021 wasn't it? And the song was released 2017.
-
The book was 2021 wasn't it? And the song was released 2017.
Indeed, and I'm glad they found new ways of living instead of bashing MK and biting the hand that fed them, or at least their fame. They sure can learn from their mistakes. Phil wrote an autobiography, Alan released an album of solo piano stuff. That's the way you do it! Good stuff. No this "Mark wasn't a big part of Dire Straits after all" BS. In Phil's case, I am aware he's an established session player, but knowing this his attitude towards Mark and Legacy shenanigans with Clark seems even more inappropriate. Like, maybe life is more interesting than dissing somebody you played 30 years ago and earning money from playing his songs at the same time?
-
Latest interview.
Alan Clark gave an interview to "Teraz Rock" magazine. I thought this excerpt was interesting and perhaps a bit controversial and debatable: Alan Clark assesses the misguided direction Dire Straits went in
"I was not enthusiastic about it, although pedal steel guitar player Paul Franklin is an excellent musician and it was great working with him. In my opinion, however, there are too many country elements on the album. I generally saw it as the wrong direction for Dire Straits. But at the time, Mark was fascinated to the maximum by the sounds of Nashville...
I think he's bang on. On Every Street probably contains most of my least favourite Dire Straits songs for this reason.
-
"Alan released an album of solo piano stuff"
If I remember correctly, Alan had permission from MK.
-
"Alan released an album of solo piano stuff"
If I remember correctly, Alan had permission from MK.
No surprise, you need clearance to release someone else's music commercially. It was a great effort, I would want to hear more from solo Alan. After all, he is a great keyboard player, and this you cannot take from him. All I wrote earlier applies to his 'other' 'work'.
-
"Alan is not surprised, actually he says MK was was fascinated to the maximum by the sounds of Nashville, no, Alan doesn't says he came surprised, only that from what DS was and was doing he thought that wasn't the right direction"
I understand it exactly the same way. This statement shows that Alan even understands it, but does not approve.
-
Alan's album of lounge piano versions of DS music – I think I've listened to it once.
-
Well, Mark always dictated which direction the band would take, so I don’t know how any move could be wrong.
Re OES, I adore the album. Is it different from the previous ones? Thank God it is, that’s called evolution, something Alan doesn’t seem to know, otherwise wouldn’t be playing someone else’s songs 30 years after the band broke up. Dude should move on, he’s exhausting.
-
"Alan released an album of solo piano stuff"
If I remember correctly, Alan had permission from MK.
No surprise, you need clearance to release someone else's music commercially. It was a great effort, I would want to hear more from solo Alan. After all, he is a great keyboard player, and this you cannot take from him. All I wrote earlier applies to his 'other' 'work'.
To my know, in france, once published a song can be covered by anybody as long as he pays the fees to do so (mainly SACEM).
But I think that there are some unwritten rules withing the music business.
Famous recent case on the matter is Jenifer covering France Gall ('Ma déclaration').
-
"Alan released an album of solo piano stuff"
If I remember correctly, Alan had permission from MK.
No surprise, you need clearance to release someone else's music commercially. It was a great effort, I would want to hear more from solo Alan. After all, he is a great keyboard player, and this you cannot take from him. All I wrote earlier applies to his 'other' 'work'.
To my know, in france, once published a song can be covered by anybody as long as he pays the fees to do so (mainly SACEM).
But I think that there are some unwritten rules withing the music business.
Famous recent case on the matter is Jenifer covering France Gall.
Wow, if that's the case you've got pretty mild copyright laws in France. Sure, rules differ from place to place, and it's not necessarily "Mark personally green-lighted Alan to record his songs", just some bureaucratic process involving clearing the rights. I remember one Russian jazz player recorded Paul McCartney's song "Yesterday", and bragged everywhere that Paul himself blessed him to record his version. I bet 100% Paul has never seen this guy and never heard from him.
-
Alan's album of lounge piano versions of DS music – I think I've listened to it once.
Still better than all the Legacy stuff and all the controversial statements. I'd take 10 lounge piano albums from AC than his whole tenure at DSL.
-
I think his solo album is really good, particularly Romeo and Juliet. A really different take on it and you can feel he was deeply involved in the orchestration of the later versions of this son that we hear on tour. His original composition of 'the North' is well worth a listen. Big respect to Alan from me.
-
Don't get me wrong, I love Alan's work in Dire Straits. He added so much to the music, and Alchemy especially would not have been the same without him. Simply beautiful. But his solo album I find boring, and almost a little cheesy. The tracks are mostly slow ballads, and everything sounds extremely similar. I had a quick listen now just to check if I remembered correctly. And I did.
-
He's a proffesional musicians that get paid for playing, any session or live gig is a session or live gig.
And he's not doing anything different to Danny Cummings, who plays in the same band that Alan.
And apparently MK greeted Alan on his piano solo record.
But each to its own.
Danny is a unique specimen, I think he's just so diplomatic he can hang out and play with anybody. He never said anything controversial, he never was a founder or a musical director of tribute acts, and he is a session musician enjoying playing good songs. John Illsley played with tribute acts, and almost all of them did. Tribute acts are not a problem, attitude is. AC said so many obnoxious and controversial things over the years, and was so sure MK is just a little part of DS, that this legacy (excuse the term) continues to this day. Even when DSL released their album, they called it "3 Chord Trick" apparently as a diss on Mark's ability to write simple similar songs. If this is not effed-up, then I don't know what is.
Funily, 3 chord trick is an autobiographical song of Phil Palmer.
It's also amazing how some people are so ready to interpretate anything some people like David, Pick, Alan or Phil says as controversial, and it doesn't matter any explanation, nothing would change the prejudice against anything they do or say. I'm sure that if any of them sneeze, that would be a controversial one against MK in any way.
It's really boring.
I'm afraid it's you being too diplomatic and kind to all these guys. It's not interpretation, it's literally one of the reasons they called it the "3 Chord Trick", I remember learning this in one of their interviews. I'm not making stuff up, remember? Just like you can't wrongly interpret Mark's "Terminal Of Tribute To", it's not exactly a love song.
You're right that anything these guys, who were caught saying or doing obnoxious things, are going to be scrutinized. At least David still writes his own songs and enjoys his own success, and not playing in his bro's tribute band. I have absolutely no problems with David, but I do with Alan, Phil and Chris White. Pick is verging on the border of falling into despair and sometimes says strange things we discussed in other threads and plays in tributes more.
Not everybody is a saint like Hal Lindes or Danny Cummings, these guys nobody ever criticised. And there are reasons why.
Well, if you compare Terminal Of Tribute To with 3 Chord Trick and say they're just different ways of mocking each other, at least you should be able to call both of them out on it with equal wording, rather than going the whole fanboy route where the "hero" gets a free pass just because "oh, he's a genius" or whatever.
I don't know how much truth there is in the MK vs the cover bands thing, but if MK actually has a problem with them and their members, it's childish and immature. I hope he knows better than that. If he can play DS songs live post-DS, surely the other members of DS can do the same.
Although I like OES, it doesn't feel much like a DS album - it sounds more like a continuation of Notting Hillbillies. What AC says sounds reasonable to my years. But - let's be real: MK knew it was the end, and didn't care if it made sense to go in that direction as there never was supposed to be a follow up.
-
Tribute bands are made by fans for fans, not by band members for... Whom? It's such an obvious way to abandon your dreams and make an easy living standing on someone else's shoulders, that no wonder he gets a lot of criticism.
Spoken by a true non-musician.
These bands are a way for full time musicians to earn a living.
The two bands in question were STARTED by former DS members, they weren't dragged in.
Both bands are playing to large appreciative crowds. As Mark is no longer playing the music of Dire Straits live, it's the only way for fans to hear the songs being played in concert, and in a similar context to Straits themselves - rock concert venue, loud PA, great lights etc.
I'm not particularly a fan, which is why I did it for a couple of years only.
There are thousands of fan style tribute bands, most of whom are not doing the songs justice from what I've seen.
At least you've got something like DSE trying to match the real experience of Dire Straits live.
-
I have absolutely no problems with David, but I do with Alan, Phil and Chris White. Pick is verging on the border of falling into despair and sometimes says strange things we discussed in other threads and plays in tributes more.
I think it's refreshing when someone tells the truth. It shouldn't be about saying complimentary things just to keep your job.
Having said that, I've only ever known Chris White saying lovely things about Mark and speaking glowingly about his time in Dire Straits.
Pick I think it's reasonable to say has legitimate reasons to be negative.
He was a founding member, a huge part of the sound of Dire Straits. The reasons he has given in recent interviews why he left the band I have found to be quite truthful, as I experienced very similar things during my short tenure.
On from that....there is nothing illegal, or copyright connected with playing other people's songs, either on record or in concert. You have to notify the music collection agencies (like PRS and ASCAP) and a portion of your income goes to the writer (in this case Mark).
Good musicians (like Alan, Chris White etc) want to play, even as they reach retirement age. The choice is playing original music in front of 200 people in a local pub or club, or playing a cover song, which you have a strong creative connection to, in front of 2,000-3,000 in a very nice arena or concert hall.
No one here would choose the first option I think.
It's also not a cruise. I know from watching it in person, Chris White (and DSE) work incredibly hard.
-
Well, if you compare Terminal Of Tribute To with 3 Chord Trick and say they're just different ways of mocking each other, at least you should be able to call both of them out on it with equal wording, rather than going the whole fanboy route where the "hero" gets a free pass just because "oh, he's a genius" or whatever.
I don't know how much truth there is in the MK vs the cover bands thing, but if MK actually has a problem with them and their members, it's childish and immature. I hope he knows better than that. If he can play DS songs live post-DS, surely the other members of DS can do the same.
Although I like OES, it doesn't feel much like a DS album - it sounds more like a continuation of Notting Hillbillies. What AC says sounds reasonable to my years. But - let's be real: MK knew it was the end, and didn't care if it made sense to go in that direction as there never was supposed to be a follow up.
Your last paragraph sums it up fine, to me OES is more like Mark's first solo album anyway. As if all the previous albums weren't his solo albums. Hehe.
The funny thing is Mark never expressed anything towards his ex-band members besides the Terminal Of Tribute To song, not a single word. Guy also added on his forum that Mark said everything he wanted to say about the matter in the song. So I'm not sure who's childish where in this situation. Only when really "cornered" in one of the "tough" interviews, did Mark admit that David was just not a good guitar player.
I see this whole situation of ex-band members trying so hard to return to Dire Straits or saying it went a wrong way is like going to your ex-girlfriend or ex-wife and trying to resurrect the marriage. The magic is gone, arguments are all over the place, but you still do it, when there are 4 billion other women in the world.
-
Tribute bands are made by fans for fans, not by band members for... Whom? It's such an obvious way to abandon your dreams and make an easy living standing on someone else's shoulders, that no wonder he gets a lot of criticism.
Spoken by a true non-musician.
These bands are a way for full time musicians to earn a living.
The two bands in question were STARTED by former DS members, they weren't dragged in.
Both bands are playing to large appreciative crowds. As Mark is no longer playing the music of Dire Straits live, it's the only way for fans to hear the songs being played in concert, and in a similar context to Straits themselves - rock concert venue, loud PA, great lights etc.
I'm not particularly a fan, which is why I did it for a couple of years only.
There are thousands of fan style tribute bands, most of whom are not doing the songs justice from what I've seen.
At least you've got something like DSE trying to match the real experience of Dire Straits live.
Answering both of your posts, this is exactly why Mark said so many times in interviews that he's not sure he could "make it" as a professional musician, and not a singer-songwriter. It's so tough. Boy, it's tough. If you depend on your instrument, you have so many chances of needing to work until you fall over or needing to play in tribute bands, playing at weddings and parties all the time, or playing 365 shows a year just to make a decent living. Being a musician sucks sometimes and the music business sucks all the time, period.
I know I'll be accused of being a fanboy once again, but surely the main problem with Dire Straits tribute bands is the difficulty level of "replacing" MK. Not only do you need to be a good vocalist with a unique voice that doesn't sound like somebody's doing an expression of MK, but you also need to be proficient in improvising and getting all these unique lines right and playing and singing at the same time, while overseeing the team and making adjustments. It's like doing a tribute to Louis Armstrong — even his son couldn't do it justice if he had one.
I know there are some damn good DS tributes, and I know guys from these bands, they are awesome, and it's great to hear these songs live. I have nothing, absolutely nothing against tributes. The problem, if you noticed, is I never said anything about side musicians at all. Side musicians are merely side musicians when it comes to MK magic. Louis Armstrong would still be Louis with any decent jazz band, I'm afraid to say. And so when a side musician goes out and creates a DS tribute band, or says Mark wasn't a big part of DS anyway... Sorry, but I laugh.
-
but surely the main problem with Dire Straits tribute bands is the difficulty level of "replacing" MK. Not only do you need to be a good vocalist with a unique voice that doesn't sound like somebody's doing an expression of MK, but you also need to be proficient in improvising and getting all these unique lines right and playing and singing at the same time, while overseeing the team and making adjustments.
No, you are completely correct. The only one that comes close, by being himself and organically sounding more like Mark, is Terence Reiss.
The guitar playing is extremely tough, but as Reiss is playing what Mark played, and not trying to improvise something new every show, I also think he gets very close.
-
The problem, if you noticed, is I never said anything about side musicians at all. Side musicians are merely side musicians when it comes to MK magic. Louis Armstrong would still be Louis with any decent jazz band, I'm afraid to say. And so when a side musician goes out and creates a DS tribute band, or says Mark wasn't a big part of DS anyway... Sorry, but I laugh.
The 'side musicians' were very important - as you can clearly hear from the various incarnations of Dire Straits live.
I don't think Mark Knopfler on tour in 2019, playing the music of Dire Straits, sounded much like DS in 1985 or 1992.
There are one or two people who have ripped into Mark, then tried to make a career out of playing his music - which I agree is not a good look.
-
"There are one or two people who have ripped into Mark, then tried to make a career out of playing his music - which I agree is not a good look"
Chris this is a very interesting thread. Maybe something more ;)
-
No insider info, just reading the same interviews and books everyone else has read.
-
I understand and expected such an answer:)
-
"There are one or two people who have ripped into Mark, then tried to make a career out of playing his music - which I agree is not a good look"
Chris this is a very interesting thread. Maybe something more ;)
No insider info, just reading the same interviews and books everyone else has read.
Thank you for this conversation, a lot of good stuff here. Interesting point about Terence Reiss. Mark's lines are so classical and unique, that I don't think it makes sense to try to come up with your lines, it's tribute after all. A lot of Mark's improvisations were pre-composed anyway, though he truly never played lines the same twice. Pre-composed was only a skeleton, not the whole solo. He is such a natural musician.
His solo versions of Dire Straits music, with such a good band filled with multi-instrumentalists and veteran session players, are destined to sound different. Ironically, while the band is the best band he ever had, Mark himself steadily struggled more and more to deliver what he once could, and now stopped altogether. Proving, once again, how much is revolving around this guy, whether people are happy about it or not.
-
I understand and expected such an answer:)
The only person I keep up with from OES era is Chris White.
There really is little gossip going on behind the scenes.
-
Thank you for this conversation.....
All good points.
-
I don't know how much truth there is in the MK vs the cover bands thing, but if MK actually has a problem with them and their members, it's childish and immature. I hope he knows better than that. If he can play DS songs live post-DS, surely the other members of DS can do the same.
The way I understand it, Mark has a problem with tribute bands using the brand name (or almost) of Dire Straits - "The Straits", "Dire Straits Legacy", etc. He would never, I think, object to John's, or anyone's, performing DS songs live per se. Of course he has a point in as much as such tribute bands are, by definition, cashing in on a big name and brand. Whether one sees this as a problem or not is subjective.
To me, Terminal of Tribute To has always seemed overly vitriolic. I can see where Mark is coming from - they are his songs and those are his former bandmates - but from a multi-millionaire, and one who will never resurrect DS, it just seems uncalled for. No one would consider such bands a threat to Mark, or expect him to voice an opinion of them, if he hadn't written, recorded, and released a long song about them.
-
Mark is paid every time one of these bands plays any of his songs.
Anyway, I can see his point about the name. It isn't illegal or anything though.
-
Did Alan and MK not do a version of Local Hero after DS disbended. Somewhere in the UK. Someting small it was but i can't remember????
As far as I recall, last time MK and Alan did something together was in 2005, playing Wild Them at the Alan Shearer's pub near Newcastle United's stadium.
That's it!! Is there a video of this? And why with Alan and not Guy??
-
Mark is paid every time one of these bands plays any of his songs.
Anyway, I can see his point about the name. It isn't illegal or anything though.
It always felt more than just a controversial naming thing. Yes, making people think they are going to see real Dire Straits by naming your band... Dire Straits... That's kinda lame, though something a lot of tribute acts suffer from. After all, you need some kind of connection so people understand what your band goal is. No doubt "The Fab Four" is a tribute to The Beatles (and a really good one, I might add). They went a little bit too far with their naming. I've got countless people from Russian fan clubs mistaking their shows for Dire Straits, and I can't blame them. Regular folks don't know better, they see "Dire Straits" and they buy tickets. Who cares if it's "Dire Straits Experience" or "Dire Straits Legacy"?
It always felt like Alan's got a chip on his shoulder. He'd move his keyboard rig closer to the audience so people see him better. He's part of the band, you see. In your face, boom, like that.
-
There’s an act called Clearwater Creedence Revival that skates a bit close name wise in my opinion!
-
There’s an act called Clearwater Creedence Revival that skates a bit close name wise in my opinion!
HAHAHA! That's hilarious. When Mark's auction was malfunctioning, there was a very funny chat on YouTube with all Knopfler puns.
In it, there was a guy with the nickname Kark Mnopfler. I wonder if I would "perform" under this name, how fast I'd be contacted by Kark Mnopfler's lawyers.
-
There’s an act called Clearwater Creedence Revival that skates a bit close name wise in my opinion!
HAHAHA! That's hilarious. When Mark's auction was malfunctioning, there was a very funny chat on YouTube with all Knopfler puns.
In it, there was a guy with the nickname Kark Mnopfler. I wonder if I would "perform" under this name, how fast I'd be contacted by Kark Mnopfler's lawyers.
I think you'd get away with that one. The names sound VERY different.
You also have the Fogerty song Zanz kant danz, which had to be changed (but just slightly, to Vanz kant danz) as it was too close to Zaentz, who he had a "beef" with at that point. Sometimes, you don't need to do alot.
-
Well, if you compare Terminal Of Tribute To with 3 Chord Trick and say they're just different ways of mocking each other, at least you should be able to call both of them out on it with equal wording, rather than going the whole fanboy route where the "hero" gets a free pass just because "oh, he's a genius" or whatever.
I don't know how much truth there is in the MK vs the cover bands thing, but if MK actually has a problem with them and their members, it's childish and immature. I hope he knows better than that. If he can play DS songs live post-DS, surely the other members of DS can do the same.
Although I like OES, it doesn't feel much like a DS album - it sounds more like a continuation of Notting Hillbillies. What AC says sounds reasonable to my years. But - let's be real: MK knew it was the end, and didn't care if it made sense to go in that direction as there never was supposed to be a follow up.
Your last paragraph sums it up fine, to me OES is more like Mark's first solo album anyway. As if all the previous albums weren't his solo albums. Hehe.
The funny thing is Mark never expressed anything towards his ex-band members besides the Terminal Of Tribute To song, not a single word. Guy also added on his forum that Mark said everything he wanted to say about the matter in the song. So I'm not sure who's childish where in this situation. Only when really "cornered" in one of the "tough" interviews, did Mark admit that David was just not a good guitar player.
I see this whole situation of ex-band members trying so hard to return to Dire Straits or saying it went a wrong way is like going to your ex-girlfriend or ex-wife and trying to resurrect the marriage. The magic is gone, arguments are all over the place, but you still do it, when there are 4 billion other women in the world.
Well, there is this odd thing where an ex-member from DS can't really say much negatively about the direction of DS without implying that they feel MK made the wrong moves, as he was the one who made the decisions. And that's not their fault, really. It's not like they owe MK to not talk about DS, and express their opinions about their time in the band. The childish one for sure is the one trying to talk down other musician's work. Such as DSL. It's a legit business, not their fault MK didn't want to continue and they have no reason to let that stop them from playing some of the songs they played live when they were in the band. Which is what they do, not sure if they ever played any other DS tracks than those.
-
I don't know how much truth there is in the MK vs the cover bands thing, but if MK actually has a problem with them and their members, it's childish and immature. I hope he knows better than that. If he can play DS songs live post-DS, surely the other members of DS can do the same.
The way I understand it, Mark has a problem with tribute bands using the brand name (or almost) of Dire Straits - "The Straits", "Dire Straits Legacy", etc. He would never, I think, object to John's, or anyone's, performing DS songs live per se. Of course he has a point in as much as such tribute bands are, by definition, cashing in on a big name and brand. Whether one sees this as a problem or not is subjective.
To me, Terminal of Tribute To has always seemed overly vitriolic. I can see where Mark is coming from - they are his songs and those are his former bandmates - but from a multi-millionaire, and one who will never resurrect DS, it just seems uncalled for. No one would consider such bands a threat to Mark, or expect him to voice an opinion of them, if he hadn't written, recorded, and released a long song about them.
This is very common, though. Like, you have AC/DShe. You probably guessed it: all-female AC/DC cover band. As long as it's clear what they are (i.e. not just one letter difference - "Dire Strats" would be crossing a line), there's not a problem. After all, they are playing in the DS style, even with ex-members from the band and names such as DSE or DSL are CLEARLY just tribute names and not trying to misguide concert goers. They get what the name implies: the same old songs, played by (mostly) different people.
-
I dislike all those tribute bands with ex members letting DS name confuse everybody just in order to cash in. BUT I think Terminal of Tribute To is a truly mean-spirited, unnecesary, unfunny, perfectly mediocre piece of lyrics which put MK in a position I don't like to see him. Satire has to be good (this song is not satirically brilliant at all) and should go bottom-up, not top-down (the small guy should make fun of the powerful, not the other way around).
-
I dislike all those tribute bands with ex members letting DS name confuse everybody just in order to cash in. BUT I think Terminal of Tribute To is a truly mean-spirited, unnecesary, unfunny, perfectly mediocre piece of lyrics which put MK in a position I don't like to see him. Satire has to be good (this song is not satirically brilliant at all) and should go bottom-up, not top-down (the small guy should make fun of the powerful, not the other way around).
Brilliantly well said Beryl. Terminal is a strange song indeed and clearly shows that Mark also has his flaws. Instead of keeping the silence, he broke it with this masterpiece and turned back to silence again. The only theory I have in Mark's defence here, is we don't know the real scale of their bad relationships with some of the ex-band members, and this level of harshness from MK could be a sign that everything's truly bad. You need to do or say something extraordinary when a guy who wrote Brothers In Arms writes a song about you.
-
The music is good though!
-
I dislike all those tribute bands with ex members letting DS name confuse everybody just in order to cash in. BUT I think Terminal of Tribute To is a truly mean-spirited, unnecesary, unfunny, perfectly mediocre piece of lyrics which put MK in a position I don't like to see him. Satire has to be good (this song is not satirically brilliant at all) and should go bottom-up, not top-down (the small guy should make fun of the powerful, not the other way around).
I agree on Terminal, and made a similar point earlier. That song does not land well.
But it's not the only time. "Poor old fakers trying to dance in my old shoes" is surely about old DS members as well.
It seems inconceivable that Mark would care so much about cover bands or tribute bands in general. He takes issue with old band members doing it, especially when named "The Straits" and what not.
-
As for the country stuff on OES...
I've been thinking about Dusty's point about Setting Me Up on the first record. It's a fair point - it's country/country rock song. And yes, Mark uses chicken pickin' and so on. Still, Setting Me Up is just such an awesome song - great riff, catchy lyrics, cool groove, fantastic soloing - and it does not feel typical of those early albums. It is more of an outlier. (Six Blade Knife is bluesy, but mostly the early songs are neither blues nor country).
With OES, and the tour, there is a different vibe that comes across in several of the songs, no doubt reflecting Mark's leaning in that direction more generally. The last DS song is How Long, and it's fine and everything, but still... It does seem a bit odd. And in that sense I think Alan is right.
-
I dislike all those tribute bands with ex members letting DS name confuse everybody just in order to cash in. BUT I think Terminal of Tribute To is a truly mean-spirited, unnecesary, unfunny, perfectly mediocre piece of lyrics which put MK in a position I don't like to see him. Satire has to be good (this song is not satirically brilliant at all) and should go bottom-up, not top-down (the small guy should make fun of the powerful, not the other way around).
I agree on Terminal, and made a similar point earlier. That song does not land well.
But it's not the only time. "Poor old fakers trying to dance in my old shoes" is surely about old DS members as well.
It seems inconceivable that Mark would care so much about cover bands or tribute bands in general. He takes issue with old band members doing it, especially when named "The Straits" and what not.
I would also count "Sky And Water" into this group of songs although he maybe tried to change the perspektive here.
LE
-
LE, are you saying you interpret Sky and Water as being about old band members and Mark? If so, then the band members would be the ones getting rid of him (the captain)... :think
-
Exactly that is my take on it.
LE
-
Never thought of that, but it does not quite seem to fit, since the band never got rid of Mark; he got rid of them. Also, the narrator in the song seems to be addressing a loved one at home, so the focus is different. (Unless there are specific textual clues that I am missing.)
Years ago, Mark was reading these types of seafaring stories, so that's probably where the idea came from, in any case.
Still, interesting point. Never thought much about this song. It is open to metaphorical readings.
-
I remember a discussion on the forum that this was a story inspired by The Bounty.
-
Makes sense!
-
As for the country stuff on OES...
I've been thinking about Dusty's point about Setting Me Up on the first record. It's a fair point - it's country/country rock song. And yes, Mark uses chicken pickin' and so on. Still, Setting Me Up is just such an awesome song - great riff, catchy lyrics, cool groove, fantastic soloing - and it does not feel typical of those early albums. It is more of an outlier. (Six Blade Knife is bluesy, but mostly the early songs are neither blues nor country).
With OES, and the tour, there is a different vibe that comes across in several of the songs, no doubt reflecting Mark's leaning in that direction more generally. The last DS song is How Long, and it's fine and everything, but still... It does seem a bit odd. And in that sense I think Alan is right.
I agree about How Long, when I last listened to it I found it strange to think that it is the closing song of the DS studio discography. I actually quite like the song, but it just doesn't seem like a fitting send off for the band. For all the changes in personnel and musical style, I do think there is a je ne sais quoi which is shared by practically every song from the first five DS albums, whereas On Every Street has several strongly country influenced tracks which don't have this feel. In my view this becomes more noticeable with the inclusion of songs that do fit comfortably with the vibe of the earlier albums - I think if OES ended with a more 'DS' track like Planet of New Orleans, rather than How Long, it would seem like less of an outlier.
-
I think Calling Elvis, Fade to Black, The Bug, You and Your Friend and Iron Hand, give the pedal steel or take it, are songs that could had been on first DS album. And When It Comes To You is absolutely a prime example of vintage DS debut, pure 1978 Knopfler, just the most first-DS-album song ever recorded by the band outside the actual first album.
-
As for the country stuff on OES...
I've been thinking about Dusty's point about Setting Me Up on the first record. It's a fair point - it's country/country rock song. And yes, Mark uses chicken pickin' and so on. Still, Setting Me Up is just such an awesome song - great riff, catchy lyrics, cool groove, fantastic soloing - and it does not feel typical of those early albums. It is more of an outlier. (Six Blade Knife is bluesy, but mostly the early songs are neither blues nor country).
With OES, and the tour, there is a different vibe that comes across in several of the songs, no doubt reflecting Mark's leaning in that direction more generally. The last DS song is How Long, and it's fine and everything, but still... It does seem a bit odd. And in that sense I think Alan is right.
I agree about How Long, when I last listened to it I found it strange to think that it is the closing song of the DS studio discography. I actually quite like the song, but it just doesn't seem like a fitting send off for the band. For all the changes in personnel and musical style, I do think there is a je ne sais quoi which is shared by practically every song from the first five DS albums, whereas On Every Street has several strongly country influenced tracks which don't have this feel. In my view this becomes more noticeable with the inclusion of songs that do fit comfortably with the vibe of the earlier albums - I think if OES ended with a more 'DS' track like Planet of New Orleans, rather than How Long, it would seem like less of an outlier.
Lyricwise, all songs and even the non-album tracks Millionaire Blues and Kingdom Come are all cynical, bittersweet, negative, sad, blues-like etc, even The Bug. How Long is the only song that transports pure positive unspoiled love and feel which makes it the perfect closing song of OES. It's like a new morning after long dark nights.
LE
-
Lyricwise, all songs and even the non-album tracks Millionaire Blues and Kingdom Come are all cynical, bittersweet, negative, sad, blues-like etc, even The Bug. How Long is the only song that transports pure positive unspoiled love and feel which makes it the perfect closing song of OES. It's like a new morning after long dark nights.
LE
Completely agree! How long is a perfect closing song for OES and for Dire Straits.
-
How Long a happy song? Positive? Suggesting a new dawn? Did you even read the lyrics? ;D The fact that the music is light and happy makes it even more bitter.
-
Of course I did.
LE
-
I know you did; I was just making fun :) Just interesting how we can perceive and understand the same lyrics so differently.
-
I know you did; I was just making fun :) Just interesting how we can perceive and understand the same lyrics so differently.
And you are both right. How Long is the ultimate trolling song from MK. He said he deliberately made it sound as country as possible and yet played the most distorted, rock guitar over it, so country radio stations would be confused about playing this song or not. Also, sad lyrics against a happy melody, the fact it's a 3-chord song (literally a proverbial 3-chord trick song), that you probably won't expect after the years of Telegraph Roads and Brothers In Arms, and the fadeout is perfect as well, and it's the shortest lyrics in all DS songs ever. So many interesting details about this little song.
-
I know you did; I was just making fun :) Just interesting how we can perceive and understand the same lyrics so differently.
And you are both right. How Long is the ultimate trolling song from MK. He said he deliberately made it sound as country as possible and yet played the most distorted, rock guitar over it, so country radio stations would be confused about playing this song or not. Also, sad lyrics against a happy melody, the fact it's a 3-chord song (literally a proverbial 3-chord trick song), that you probably won't expect after the years of Telegraph Roads and Brothers In Arms, and the fadeout is perfect as well, and it's the shortest lyrics in all DS songs ever. So many interesting details about this little song.
I believe he actually said that about Are We In Trouble Now. And he was right - Randy Travis did an almost note for note cover (even using some of the same musicians!) but without the Les Paul, and had a country hit with it.
-
I think Calling Elvis, Fade to Black, The Bug, You and Your Friend and Iron Hand, give the pedal steel or take it, are songs that could had been on first DS album. And When It Comes To You is absolutely a prime example of vintage DS debut, pure 1978 Knopfler, just the most first-DS-album song ever recorded by the band outside the actual first album.
I agree, if you change the arrangements adapting those to the more simplistic approach from the early years they would fit right in.
-
Every song is reflected with what the composer/songwriter is living at that moment.
The early Knopfler never disappear, he evolved.
Pick any MK's 80's+ song, put in a time machine, and send it to the 70's Knopfler and he will deliver the same song with an 'Early Straits' arrangement.
People are trying to justificate MK's decision on making OES based on Alan's comment about the band direction at the time.
Alan and MK are equally responsibles for the 80's DS soundscape.
In my opinion, MK put Alan aside during the making of OES album.
Alan was not happy with the direction and he can say what he wants about it.
-
When I was 19, I went on a date with a girl who was also a huge Dire Straits fan. After a while, I realised I had no interest in pursuing something more with her and thought of a way to end the date without the going to the bathroom and never coming back trick. So I interrupted whatever she was saying at the time and said:
"You know, my favourite Dire Straits album is On Every Street."
She looked at me for about 2 seconds and left the building. Thank you, OES.
-
Every song is reflected with what the composer/songwriter is living at that moment.
The early Knopfler never disappear, he evolved.
Pick any MK's 80's+ song, put in a time machine, and send it to the 70's Knopfler and he will deliver the same song with an 'Early Straits' arrangement.
People are trying to justificate MK's decision on making OES based on Alan's comment about the band direction at the time.
Alan and MK are equally responsibles for the 80's DS soundscape.
In my opinion, MK put Alan aside during the making of OES album.
Alan was not happy with the direction and he can say what he wants about it.
I find those comments very logical, as MK was very into the Nashville stuff at that time but the rest of the band wasn't, and probably for the rest of them having a pedal steel player was weird as that was more associted with country music than rock.
For MK was a perfect fit for his evolution as a musician during all the years between BIA and OES.
Alan, a big part of the musical arrangements of every DS song since he joined, was all those years playing with Eric Clapton, very different to what Mk was into during that same period of time.
-
I find those comments very logical, as MK was very into the Nashville stuff at that time but the rest of the band wasn't, and probably for the rest of them having a pedal steel player was weird as that was more associted with country music than rock.
For MK was a perfect fit for his evolution as a musician during all the years between BIA and OES.
Alan, a big part of the musical arrangements of every DS song since he joined, was all those years playing with Eric Clapton, very different to what Mk was into during that same period of time.
Steve Vai once said: A composition is, above all, a selfish act.
Mark was so deeply involved into the Nashville Scene that he replaced Terry, add Paul Franklin and almost bring Vince Gill to the band. So, he was selfish enought to do whatever he wanted do do. To please himself.
We know what happened with those who was 'against' Mark.
You guessed my next comment about Alan.
During 86 and 90, Alan was deeply involved with Clapton and Tina.
He was one of the directors of Clapton's Journeyman and the equally famous 24 nights. So, he was much more into rock-pop scene than Nashville.
-
As for the country stuff on OES...
I've been thinking about Dusty's point about Setting Me Up on the first record. It's a fair point - it's country/country rock song. And yes, Mark uses chicken pickin' and so on. Still, Setting Me Up is just such an awesome song - great riff, catchy lyrics, cool groove, fantastic soloing - and it does not feel typical of those early albums. It is more of an outlier. (Six Blade Knife is bluesy, but mostly the early songs are neither blues nor country).
With OES, and the tour, there is a different vibe that comes across in several of the songs, no doubt reflecting Mark's leaning in that direction more generally. The last DS song is How Long, and it's fine and everything, but still... It does seem a bit odd. And in that sense I think Alan is right.
I agree about How Long, when I last listened to it I found it strange to think that it is the closing song of the DS studio discography. I actually quite like the song, but it just doesn't seem like a fitting send off for the band. For all the changes in personnel and musical style, I do think there is a je ne sais quoi which is shared by practically every song from the first five DS albums, whereas On Every Street has several strongly country influenced tracks which don't have this feel. In my view this becomes more noticeable with the inclusion of songs that do fit comfortably with the vibe of the earlier albums - I think if OES ended with a more 'DS' track like Planet of New Orleans, rather than How Long, it would seem like less of an outlier.
Lyricwise, all songs and even the non-album tracks Millionaire Blues and Kingdom Come are all cynical, bittersweet, negative, sad, blues-like etc, even The Bug. How Long is the only song that transports pure positive unspoiled love and feel which makes it the perfect closing song of OES. It's like a new morning after long dark nights.
LE
It's a nice observation, but for me "How Long" is not a happy ending. The song has the same feel to me as "When It Comes To You" But "How Long" is a great introduction to MK's solo chapter
-
I know you did; I was just making fun :) Just interesting how we can perceive and understand the same lyrics so differently.
And you are both right. How Long is the ultimate trolling song from MK. He said he deliberately made it sound as country as possible and yet played the most distorted, rock guitar over it, so country radio stations would be confused about playing this song or not. Also, sad lyrics against a happy melody, the fact it's a 3-chord song (literally a proverbial 3-chord trick song), that you probably won't expect after the years of Telegraph Roads and Brothers In Arms, and the fadeout is perfect as well, and it's the shortest lyrics in all DS songs ever. So many interesting details about this little song.
I believe he actually said that about Are We In Trouble Now. And he was right - Randy Travis did an almost note for note cover (even using some of the same musicians!) but without the Les Paul, and had a country hit with it.
I have a good memory and am positive he was talking about How Long, though nobody stops you from keeping this formula in the next album and using it on "Are We In Trouble Now". These covers without Mark's guitar are ridiculous, it's like covering The Everly Brothers' songs with only one voice. Mark has two voices, one of them is guitar ;D
-
Yeah I have a good memory as well and I am positive too. :)
Pretty sure it was in an interview in Guitarist magazine in 1995.
-
Mark has a peculiar way of not putting distorted guitar solos on some of his most famous and straight-forward rock songs (MFN, Heavy Fuel) (on the albums), but putting them on stuff like the tunes you are discussing :)
-
Solo guitar on MFN and Heavy Fuel are pretty well over driven.
-
Solo guitar on MFN and Heavy Fuel are pretty well over driven.
Yes, I am aware :) But there are no solos on the album versions of those songs. Famously, Mark was encouraged (by Dorfsman?) to take a proper solo on MFN in the studio, but preferred not to. Unlike live, where Mark played solos on MFN in '85, and both he and Phil played solos on the OES tour.
-
Solo guitar on MFN and Heavy Fuel are pretty well over driven.
Yes, I am aware :) But there are no solos on the album versions of those songs. Famously, Mark was encouraged (by Dorfsman?) to take a proper solo on MFN in the studio, but preferred not to. Unlike live, where Mark played solos on MFN in '85, and both he and Phil played solos on the OES tour.
The outro of MFN is one long solo - in fact TWO solos panned left and right! Mostly the same but sometimes they differ and it sounds cool :)
-
Lyricwise, all songs and even the non-album tracks Millionaire Blues and Kingdom Come are all cynical, bittersweet, negative, sad, blues-like etc, even The Bug. How Long is the only song that transports pure positive unspoiled love and feel which makes it the perfect closing song of OES. It's like a new morning after long dark nights.
LE
Completely agree! How long is a perfect closing song for OES and for Dire Straits.
I totally agree here. And it's a song that takes you straight to his solo era. The man does nothing without thinking about it first.
-
Solo guitar on MFN and Heavy Fuel are pretty well over driven.
Yes, I am aware :) But there are no solos on the album versions of those songs. Famously, Mark was encouraged (by Dorfsman?) to take a proper solo on MFN in the studio, but preferred not to. Unlike live, where Mark played solos on MFN in '85, and both he and Phil played solos on the OES tour.
The outro of MFN is one long solo - in fact TWO solos panned left and right! Mostly the same but sometimes they differ and it sounds cool :)
In a sense; we could quibble about this, but you all know what I mean ;D
On the live versions, he plays typical rock solos, far removed from the riff, while on the album, he "solos in his own rhythmic way" (paraphrasing Dorfsman), only venturing briefly away from the riff.
In 2005, Guy said that only having Mark on guitar was a step back to the album version, but this never quite made sense, as there are two guitars on the album (like you say, Dusty). Relegating Richard to cowbell must have been one of the least flattering treatments of an ace guitarist ever...
-
I thought having Richard on cowbell was great!
No point playing guitar if it's not needed.
Kind of the opposite of Corn Beef City towards the end where you had six people playing guitar or something but they still needed to play a sample of MK!
-
I thought having Richard on cowbell was great!
No point playing guitar if it's not needed.
Kind of the opposite of Corn Beef City towards the end where you had six people playing guitar or something but they still needed to play a sample of MK!
I was curious what you exactly mean and searched for Corned Beef City 2019 on YouTube. I was totally surprised to see those two boring blokes with brass on this song! Who could have imagined that! I guess I did nothing wrong in completely skip the whole DTRW campaigne and tour...
LE
-
OES should have not ever existed as a DS album.
It is something that happened whereas Mark had already buried the band once.
But it happened and in1992 I was not questionning myself if it was a real "DS" album.
It was the new DS album and Calling Elvis was the single hit.
But in 1996 I though about some songs on GH, oh that one could have featured on a DS record if Mark had not decided to go without the rest of the band...
-
I thought having Richard on cowbell was great!
No point playing guitar if it's not needed.
Kind of the opposite of Corn Beef City towards the end where you had six people playing guitar or something but they still needed to play a sample of MK!
Haha, yeah well Corned Beef is an atrocious song anyway ;D
Not sure why a second guitar would not be needed in 2005 only. It's live, let the boys play! I enjoy hearing the second guitarists add something. Funnily, the main contribution on MFN over the years was probably Jack, whose rhythm playing was very noticeable (using a pick and being high in the mix). But I also like having a brief solo, like Phil's, for variation.
-
I always loved Corn Beef City. Great groove coming from Ianto's drums.
And I always hated Phil's solo on MFN. I guess you want to play something different from MK but Phil's solo sounded just like a typical 80s EVH hair metal type thing to me.
-
And I always hated Phil's solo on MFN. I guess you want to play something different from MK but Phil's solo sounded just like a typical 80s EVH hair metal type thing to me.
+1 :thumbsup
I like EC's solo on Mandela concert
-
I always loved Corn Beef City. Great groove coming from Ianto's drums.
And I always hated Phil's solo on MFN. I guess you want to play something different from MK but Phil's solo sounded just like a typical 80s EVH hair metal type thing to me.
Yeah, that's fair. It's a fine line to tread. I sometimes have the same impression, but I like Phil's solo on On the Night and it may be the reason they picked that particular version, as his solo is better than on other nights.
Sometimes, the second guitarists don't sound right at all (Jack on Wild West End). One of my favourites is Richard on Pyroman, now that is a cool solo!
-
And I always hated Phil's solo on MFN. I guess you want to play something different from MK but Phil's solo sounded just like a typical 80s EVH hair metal type thing to me.
+1 :thumbsup
I like EC's solo on Mandela concert
And what about EC's contribution on the Knebworth version? I just love that intro.
-
I always loved Corn Beef City. Great groove coming from Ianto's drums.
And I always hated Phil's solo on MFN. I guess you want to play something different from MK but Phil's solo sounded just like a typical 80s EVH hair metal type thing to me.
I have always thought that Mark wanted just that kind of solo there.
-
I always loved Corn Beef City. Great groove coming from Ianto's drums.
And I always hated Phil's solo on MFN. I guess you want to play something different from MK but Phil's solo sounded just like a typical 80s EVH hair metal type thing to me.
I have always thought that Mark wanted just that kind of solo there.
I think it fits really well and it's a big contrast compared with classic pentatonic-ish EC/MK blues-rock solo improvisations, which probably was the intended effect. Also his solos in the new ITILYTM official recording are well worth to be mention IMO, really speak volumes of Phil's skills.
-
There should have been a solo on Heavy Fuel, on the album. The ending, unlike MFN, is very repetitive. The breakdown at the end of the song on the first OES shows - guitar lines in between "Heavy, heavy fuel" - was pretty cool.
-
There should have been a solo on Heavy Fuel, on the album. The ending, unlike MFN, is very repetitive. The breakdown at the end of the song on the first OES shows - guitar lines in between "Heavy, heavy fuel" - was pretty cool.
In a studio you are paying for studio time, so the fastest you record something, the better :)
If you end the whole recording and find that still have time, usually you rent a studio from this date to this date and you have free time, you can do overdubs, lol
-
There should have been a solo on Heavy Fuel, on the album. The ending, unlike MFN, is very repetitive. The breakdown at the end of the song on the first OES shows - guitar lines in between "Heavy, heavy fuel" - was pretty cool.
In a studio you are paying for studio time, so the fastest you record something, the better :)
If you end the whole recording and find that still have time, usually you rent a studio from this date to this date and you have free time, you can do overdubs, lol
I dread to think what the recording budget for OES was, they were following up one of the biggest selling albums of all time, I don't think there were any financial pressures!
-
I’m sure I read at the both Mark and John jointly financed recording OES, John commenting that the world had moved into recession and we’ve got a lot riding on this.
-
A couple of OES era features where Nashville and MK's first marriage are brought up:
Taken from Q magazine, 1991.
DIRE STRAITS ARE BACK IN TOWN
"It's a right here, John," Mark Knopfler says.
"No, it's not," John Illsley replies, turning his car left.
"Go up here and make a U-turn," Knopfler suggests.
"It's one way, " Illsley responds.
"I think..." Guy Fletcher begins.
"Now! A right, John!" Knopfler interrupts.
"No, that doesn't go through," Illsley snaps.
"I think I'll keep quiet," Fletcher sighs.
Dire Straits are driving through the alleys and back streets of London's Soho, looking for their dinner. Bassist Illsley is at the wheel of his Honda Accord, singer/guitarist Knopfler is riding shotgun, and keyboard player Fletcher is crammed in back with the toys and baby seat. Fletcher (like pianist Alan Clark) has been promoted to partnership in Dire Straits on their new album. But Mark and John are the only two charter members, the only two contractual members, and right now, the only two trying to drive this small car.
What's that smell?" Fletcher asks politely. "Dirty diapers," Illsley responds, pulling out onto a main street "Quick, John, make a U-turn," Knopfler urges. For once Illsley agrees. Wait!" Fletcher says, "Look at all the police!" Sure enough, both sides of the street are lined with bobbies, holding back crowds of people with cameras and autograph books. Dire Straits, among the most famous and (if you believe the British tabloids) wealthiest stars in England, have emerged in the middle of a big movie premier. "Go ahead," Knopfler says, "these cops won't care." Illsley swings his car around in the middle of the road and zooms off. In a few minutes he and his co-pilots have found the restaurant where they have reservations. Illsley wants to drive around looking for a legal parking space but Knopfler urges him to park in front and risk the ticket. They pull up at the restaurant's front door, right behind a sleek Jaguar.
Stepping into the restaurant, Illsley tells the tuxedoed headwaiter that he has parked illegally out front. The waiter nods and glances toward the Jaguar. "No," Illsley says, "the Accord." The waiter looks again, turns back to Illsley and says, "Good luck." State the obvious: Dire Straits don't seem like big rock stars. They seem like regular guys who drive their own cars with baby seats in the back and suffer the condescension of snooty headwaiters. The joke is, they are the most successful band England has. Their first album, "Dire Straits," sold eight million copies. Their last album, 1985's "Brothers in Arms", sold 20 million. Tonight's dinner follows a playback of their next album, "On Every Street," which is just about finished. There are still a few mixes to go, Fletcher is still fixing a flam or two on the Synclavier, but by and large the first Dire Straits album in six years is complete.
Since finishing the "Brothers in Arms" tour in 1986, Mark Knopfler has composed the film soundtracks for the fairy tale "The Princess Bride" and the grim "Last Exit to Brooklyn." He and Fletcher were half of the rootsy Notting Hillbillies, and Knopfler and Chet Atkins recorded a duo guitar album called "Neck & Neck." No one, including Knopfler, was sure there would be another Dire Straits record; his taste seemed to be moving farther and farther from rock 'n' roll. Knopfler reconvened Illsley, Fletcher and Clark last September and suggested they record his newest songs live in the studio, with minimal over-dubbing. They brought in session drummer Jeff Porcaro (who declined joining Dire Straits out of loyalty to Toto-de gustibus non disputandum est) and Hillbillies steel guitarist Paul Franklin and started to play.
The songs that rolled out combined everything Knopfler had picked up in his travels - the dynamics and arranging tricks of film orchestration, the earthiness of his folk and country side trips - with the essence of Dire Straits. Songs such as "Calling Elvis," "The Bug" and "When It Comes to You" have the loping country-blues groove of the Straits' earliest work. There is also a great emphasis on rhythm - tracks hold off on Knopfler's guitar solos and let the groove stretch out. There are several moody late-night ballads, one of which - the title song - returns Knopfler to the bittersweet romance of "Romeo and Juliet" and "Hand in Hand." "Heavy Fuel" and the B -side "Kingdom Come" are hard rockers in the "Money for Nothing" mode, and a few songs defy categorization - "Ticket to Heaven" is a lush ballad with strings sung by a sad soul who sends all his money to a TV preacher, and "My Parties" is a cross between Randy Newman and Rodney Dangerfield-a singing tour of a rich moron's house: "Step inside my home/That's a brass toilet tissue holder with its own telephone/That's a musical doorbell-it don't ring, I ain't kiddin'/it plays `America the Beautiful' and `Tie a Yellow Ribbon.' "
Knopfler has decided to drop "My Parties" from the album because he thinks the joke will get old after a couple of listens. This is appalling to the others, who consider "My Parties" a great track. The final decision's not open and shut; for this album, Knopfler has for the first time shared record production with Illsley, Fletcher and Clark. That's important to the others for more than financial reasons. Dire Straits made their first two albums as a quartet. In 1980 rhythm guitarist David Knopfler left and they made two more LPs as a trio. Then drummer Pick Withers quit; by the time of Brothers in Arms Dire Straits was really a two-man show-Knopfler and Illsley. The promotions of Clark (who has been with the band since 1980) and Fletcher (who worked with Knopfler on all of his recent projects) to partnership marks the expansion of Dire Straits after a long contraction. "It feels more like a band now than it ever did," Fletcher says. "Especially the way we recorded, the way we were all involved. It's not just Mark sitting behind the desk making all the decisions." Fletcher laughs. "Now he to hold Alan and me back. He's forever saying, `It's a guitar band.' I say, 'How can it possibly be a guitar band when you've got two keyboard players?" But it is, of course."
During the playback at Air Studios in Oxford Circus, Illsley moved around the control room, standing in front of one speaker, then another, listening from every position including out in the hall. Fletcher sat stock still off to one side, unmoving, hardly blinking, eyes fixed straight ahead. Knopfler rocked back and forth in the producer's chair, eyes closed, nodding and smiling to the music. After more than an hour, when the last note faded, he looked up happily and said, "Yeah. It's good work."
The next afternoon Knopfler is overseeing the mix of "Kingdom Come," a hard rocker about a hunter who uses heavy artillery to kill rabbits. He tells engineer Chuck Ainlay there's too much echo. John Illsley walks in, says hi, listens for a moment and says, "Too much echo." After 14, years, Illsley and Knopfler are two sides of the same doubloon. Illsley walks out into the London lunch time crowds and finds a quiet wine bar on a back street. "I was quite happy with the knowledge that there wouldn't be another Dire Straits album," he says. "In a sense Brothers in Arms felt like a signing-off. And yet it doesn't take very long to realize that it could just be beginning again The level of intensity in Mark's song writing is still there, it's even greater in some ways. I don't think we would have gotten anywhere near making this record unless he got those songs. It had to be very positive move on his behalf to make it happen again. Even I'm surprised at the strength of the material."
Illsley orders a glass of wine and continues. "I still respond very much to the way Mark plays a guitar. And like it was 15 years ago, if he sits next to me and plays I fall into a kind of response. It's not questioning, it's not a problem, it's more an automatic dialogue going 'round and 'round. You hear that rhythmic feel of the guitar and the bass and the pulse underneath. It's basic rock 'n' roll."
There are a lot of jokes around Dire Straits and a very strong sense of ease about playing music. The band has no patience for prima donnas or self-important statements of creative anguish. Yet one gets a sense that, although he would rather swallow a brick than admit it, Knopfler does believe that his music has lasting value. It is a subject Knopfler always manages to avoid, deflect or joke his way out of. Asked if his old friend sometimes hides his most serious ambitions under the camouflage of camaraderie and high spirits, Illsley picks his words carefully:
"I think one has to be a bit cautious in the way one analyzes it all really. Because what you say obviously has an element of truth in it. A very strong element of truth. In a sense artists live a life of isolation, but they want to be part of what's going on, too. Because that sense of isolation is almost too much to bear. You know, you don't write good songs out of being in a normal happy middle-class- environment. You don't paint good pictures if you sit and watch TV every night. You live on the outside of all that sort of stuff. If you don't live on the edge, you don't live.
"The majority of true artists are pretty lonely people, actually. Because they're essentially isolated from normal society. They have to be. And they are, just by circumstances, isolated from reality. Mark's a bit like that, I think."
On the third day, in an empty studio, Knopfler sat down to talk.
Musician: Was it easier to face the bigness of finally making another Dire Straits album by saying, "Let's cut it fast, Let's play live" - in effect, "Let's not make such a big deal of it"?
Knopfler: I wasn't aware of that being a problem. I never thought it was an enormous task. It's been a breeze. I think playing together has been a big lift for everybody. Nobody's gotten bogged down over-dubbing in a lonely or isolated sense. At Brothers in Arms time people were saying, "It's the biggest band in the world blah blah blah." I remember thinking that maybe that was a reason to give it a rest for a while. Just because of the inherent dangers of that sort of scale and that sort of talk floating around. A lot of talk about popularity and sales, with all the nonsense that throws up. If anything, that would make me want to take a step back from it. If starting the monster rolling again had been on my mind, it would have affected what we've been doing. But it hasn't It wasn't on my mind.
Musician: There must be a part of you that says when you've written "Heavy Fuel," "Ah, there's my "Money for Nothing," that'll take care of that."
Knopfler: But it's not. It's probably not as good a song. It's probably not as aurally attractive or whatever. That's just the way it came out. I've never been able to write to order particularly. Except for films. I suppose if you were completely commercially motivated and in our case I can think of every reason why we shouldn't be; me doing anything for money now would be absolutely pointless - then you'd say, "Okay, `Heavy Fuel' is gonna be the next `Money for Nothing,' that'll be the first single, get the album rocketing off." Well it's not. I don't think of it that way. In fact up until two weeks ago I was going to leave it off entirely because I didn't think that it was part of the soul of the record. Same as "My Parties." Now I think it is.
Musician: What inspired "Calling Elvis"?
Knopfler: My wife Lourdes' brother Bobby said one day that trying to get through to Lourdes on the phone was like trying to call Elvis. [laughter] But it was all applicable as far as I could see: problems of getting through, problems of communicating.
Musician: Last year you made an album with Chet Atkins, you recruited Vince GIll to sing on this album and you've added Paul Franklin to Dire Straits. Nashville's become your new hangout.
Knopfler: I've been there a lot in the past few years. For different things. I made very good friends with my publisher down there. There was an unforgettable night round at Waylon's. Waylon and Jesse invited Chet and myself and Don Gibson, who'd just come out of hospital, and Roger Miller and we all sang and played. Don sang "Oh Lonesome Me" and "Sweet Dreams." It was real hair-stand-on end time. So emotional. Another great moment was when we were all playing another one of Don's songs-"Just One Time"-and Waylon picked up a guitar and ripped out the solo from the record. It was a perfect illustration of part of Waylon's roots and the hours that he spent listening to that music. I mean, it's a complicated piece of playing. It was a great night, and in the morning Waylon gave me 1950 Chevy pickup. So it was altogether a memorable experience. It was a privilege to be there. I like the sense of humor and the musicianship in Nashville. And they cover a lot of my tunes, too!
Musician: When you started this Dire Straits album you obviously brought back a lot of the Notting Hillbillies, a lot of "Neck and Neck," as well as the earliest Dire Straits - the "Southbound Again" style. Did you ever doubt that everything you'd been doing in those more traditional styles would be applicable to Dire Straits in 1991?
Knopfler: I've always loved a place where country meets the blues, basically. I think the songs I write are as varied as ever, but I found myself writing what would appear to be more simple things. Doing simple things has its own built-in set of complications. I'd always loved the pedal-steel guitar. I thought it would be a good idea to get pedal-steel on the Hillbillies record and got to meet Paul Franklin, who's the major man in Nashville in that area. And we clicked immediately. It occurred to me that this had to become part of the band. In the context of country based songs like "How Long" or "Ticket to Heaven," steel guitar comes out in a form that our ears accept as a genre. But in other tunes like "On Every Street" or "Planet of New Orleans" or "You and Your Friend"-steel playing becomes something else. Also, getting Paul involved in blues-based things has been very exciting and I dare to say it's been exciting and beneficial to him. In the Hillbillies we played a lot of blues-based stuff. After that he went back to his Nashville sessions with a set of different licks and a different approach. So it's a two-way thing. Obviously I will borrow from them, but they take from me too, and it feeds itself back into so-called country music. It may be where the third is, or an absence of the third altogether, or how you play the lick-country or blues or a tantalizing blend of the two. Obviously you do try to avoid clich.
Musician: There was a lot of doubt about whether there would ever be another Dire Straits album.
Knopfler: Yeah, I think when you get to the end of a long tour you might feel like that. But it didn't take me that long to come back around to wanting to do it all over again. There's an acceptance that this is who you are and what you do and what you like. And I'm happiest with my band. I love everything else. I wanted to branch out and do a bunch of other stuff. You need variety and you need the break. It's almost the same as going to Nashville for me; it's a break it is a lovely change, it's a refueling. Also, the pressure's off. Everything that I've been doing has been just relaxation. Except for some of the serious incidental music for films. Under the heading of Things I don't Really Want to Do Anymore would be chases through castles, fights with giant rats and seven-minute riot scenes. Because I've done it, taken the time to learn to do it, full orchestra going on the Synclav-and it's not music to me. But under the heading of Things I Would Still Like to Do would be movie themes. I'm just not so interested in doing the falling down the hill or scaling the Cliffs of Insanity. If you spent all day scaling the Cliffs of Insanity it's quite hard to switch into something that's more fun just like that. I was doing "Last Exit to Brooklyn" and working on a gang rape scene all day. At that time I was playing with Eric Clapton for the sheer fun of it, just to keep a hand in gigging. And I found it was getting kind of schizophrenic. I'd be doing horrific stuff on a screen all day and then wandering down to the Albert Hall to have a good time. That I found kind of difficult. 'Cause you have to get into the scenes. There was a murder in "Cal" that I found disturbing all the time I was doing it I'd never got used to.
Musician: It seemed like you dropped off the map for a while in there. Right after the "Brothers in Arms" tour ended you produced and did press with Randy Newman. Then you reappeared with "Last Exit", Notting Hillbillies, "Neck and Neck" and now Dire Straits. Was there a period in the middle when you were home baking bread.
Knopfler: I think I was just touring with Eric or something. I was writing a lot last summer, getting a lot of these songs sorted with a guitar and notebook. I've gone so far as to buy a microphone and stuff but it doesn't work. I'm much better off with just a guitar and a notebook. I do forget a lot of stuff but then I figure, "Well, if I forgot it..."
Musician: Wait a minute, you don't even tape songs as you go.
Knopfler: No. I keep forgetting stuff. Sometimes I think, "Oh damn! it's gone!" It's a bit like a dream you wake up from and don't bother to remember.
Musician: A songwriter has that conflict when he's drifting off to sleep and an idea comes into his head He has to decide whether to force himself to get up and find a pencil, or just let that one go.
Knopfler: I enjoy inspiration as much as anybody, it's a fantastic feeling, but to be jumping up in the night hunting for a pen and paper always struck me as being a little bit ludicrous. You can call it laziness or you can call it self-preservation. It's another reason I don't do drugs. What that would do would be to set off the pulse and the creative thing and I'd just exhaust myself doing the stuff. Of course, you don't know how much the stuff would be worth anyway. I just know that from smoking dope 12 years ago. It would blow my head off now. I don't necessarily welcome that concentrated rush.
Musician: Many creative people feel so insecure about their gift that anytime it shows up they drop the baby and chase it.
Knopfler: Well then, maybe I'm not insecure. [laughs] Maybe. I really just don't think I am. Perhaps that's a failing. I'm aware of the fact that I'm not particularly prolific. But I suppose it's partly because I hide myself in these other things. And it's relevant to balance the ego gratification of being a singer/songwriter, doing your own songs and telling people what to do, with doing something for other people sometimes as well
Musician It seems that as your musical vocabulary has become wider, your guitar playing has become bolder. There is a casualness to the way you'll fall into your solos on this album, as if you're not sure where the solo's going to end up, but it'll be an interesting trip. Your earlier solos seemed more composed.
Knopfler: Maybe. I don't know what I'm going to play. When you're playing live it's different, you might have a little phrase that the band will recognize as a marker to get into another section. You learn more licks as well. I learn a new lick from Chet or from Paul, he goes off and uses a lick he learned from me. There's a lick in "When It Comes to You" that I learned from Chet a few months ago, stole it and put it straight into the song. On the Hillbillies tour I'd learn a lick from Paul Franklin and stick it into my improvisations. I hope to always be able to steal a lick and add it to my little bag of tricks. That increase in vocabulary is just a potent thing. There's no point in trying to mystify it. It's how you use it!
Musician: None of your outside projects allowed you to play the sort of heavy guitar that comes in during "Calling Elvis" and runs all through "Heavy Fuel."
Knopfler: I enjoy that tension you can set up between that and something like "How Long." It's a big tapestry, a wide variety. The non-cliched tension between the two sets up the heavy guitar. And that's why it wouldn't be played on country radio, but that's what I like. Apart from anything else, it hasn't really been done.
Musician : "Iron Hand" is about British security forces beating striking miners.
Knopfler: Yeah, it was just something I saw on television a few years ago. The BBC said, "The queen was reported to have been shocked by today's scenes," which is basically a way of saying that the government had gone over the top. I'm not taking a political position. If you think that the sole intention of some of those pickets in the fields was to overthrow the government, or they were anarchists who just wanted to upset the system, then that's up to you. All I'm saying is that it was unacceptable to me, as it was to the queen to see a cavalry charge and heads being cracked open as a way of resolving a situation. Foot soldiers with helmets and shields approached in a line, they split open, and through that split galloped men on horses with four-foot swordsticks. It was medieval. And the queen fit, in a way. It seemed to go with the knights in armor. It was an ancient scene. I was just so appalled to see it. And I felt sorry for a lot of the ordinary policemen who'd been ordered to do that. It was a government position, a political decision passed on, I'm sure, to the chief of police from the Home Office.
Musician: The song begins with the acoustic guitar and could be any Appalachian folk song, could be "Hollis Brown." Then the synths come in, still very simple, very pure. The bagpipe sounds introduce a British mood to it. And it occurred to me that while keeping the music very direct, you've brought together elements of different cultures and different times, which really underscores the point of the song...
Knopfler: "We haven't changed since ancient times." That's completely live, all the synths. That's just what everybody played. That's why the guitar and vocals sound kind of rickety.
Musician: Did you use kettle drums for the cannon sound?
Knopfler: Just a roll on the toms with an echo on it.
Musician: You often slip in musical sound effects. The tinkling on the hi-hats like ice cubes in a glass on "My Parties."
Knopfler: Like glasses tinkling together! Jeff Porcaro's unbelievable.
Musician :Yesterday you boosted the guitar pick clicking on the string on "Kingdom Come" so it would sound like a trigger being cocked. Even if no one notices consciously; it creates a nice sonic environment.
Knopfler: A "sonic environment"...
Musician: Sounds like a waterbed ad, doesn't it?
Knopfler: "Psycho-acoustics - our specialty."
Musician: There's a joke character you sometimes slip into in conversation - the slow talking macho American lunkhead. This album you've got him singing some songs - "Heavy Fuel," "Kingdom Come." He's not the same character as the "Money for Nothing" guy...
Knopfler: No, but he's still there a little bit. In "My Parties."
Musician: He's come into some money?
Knopfler: Yeah. He's probably even got a band there with frayed suits. [laughs] I like a lot of those guys. I love people. I'm sorry. I think there are bits of those characters in me. Definitely. I read "Money" by Martin Amis. The character John Self inspired "Heavy Fuel," That road of excess leading to a palace of mediocrity. I actually dropped off a note to Amis' publisher and asked if he wanted to be a face in the "Heavy Fuel" video. I haven't heard any reply. I'm not surprised. I hope he treats it with the contempt it deserves.
Musician: "Money's" the nastiest book I ever read. My wife would ask me why I was laughing so hard, so I'd read her a passage and then she'd make me go sleep on the couch.
Knopfler: I'd be a liar if I said I was setting myself up as some kind of saintly opposite. I've got very little time for saints, I don't trust 'em. But the whole picture doesn't, I hope, make me a modern cynic or anything of the sort.
Musician: Almost all the songs have two perspectives - the character's voice and what the listener also sees going on that the character misses. Each song has a twist.
Knopfler: They're all different - he said, immediately reverting to clich=E9 . They're just a bunch... Don't you dare say they're just songs. I'm not gonna say they're just a bunch of songs. You have to use your imagination if it's not you specifically. "Planet of New Orleans," for instance. I've never waited for "Marie Ondean" in New Orleans. It's just a name that rhymes with "Dauphine." I did wake up on a bus on the corner of Toulouse and Dauphine one morning ten years ago and for some reason I wrote it down. So there's a combination of truth and something you made up. Fragments can turn up in a song years after you've written them down.
Musician: In the winter of 1980 you told me you had heard a bus driver say to a kid, "Hey, maestro!" and you were sure it would find its way into a song. Then next summer you played me "Expresso Love" and there it was.
Knopfler: There's a line in my head now that I haven't written down, but it'll turn up in a song sometime: It's an imaginary song called "Wheelbanging" by an imaginary band called the Fake IDs. At some point, in two or three or five years, it'll be in a song. That's what's playing in that scene: "Wheelbanging" by the Fake IDs.
Musician: "On Every Street" is the only song with a New York setting. "Fireworks over Liberty" is a great phrase - it's a vivid picture for a New Yorker but for someone who doesn't know of Liberty Island it will sound like a description of an argument about someone wanting out of a relationship. The song has the same sensibility as "Making Movies," but the romance is giving way to disillusion.
Knopfler: You just get to where you learn to put yourself in a frame of mind where you can approach life with more confidence, you can bring more to it. And there's a sadness that's involved with that. [long silence] Big subject. It's just getting older, I suppose. Bringing more experience to bear. Also, I'm not saying you become desensitized, but if you have had pain in your life you perhaps have less energy to give it when it pops up again.
Musician: You know where it fits and that it ends.
Knopfler: Exactly. And you can then help other people with their pain a little bit. So given that the best situation to be in is one where you are subjective and objective at the same time, I think all that age and experience gives is the ability to be there quicker and easier.
Musician: It's good that even when you get close to territory you've worked in before, like "Every Street," you don't try to get back the perspective you had at 29.
Knopfler: It's just different. I'm not saying it's better. What satisfies you is really a personal thing. You have to train yourself to listen to things and you can't expect everybody to appreciate the level of it. I'm not trying to suggest that this is a wine of an extremely fine and rare vintage. However, if I did have a wine of a rare vintage I wouldn't start a 17-year-old off on it. It took me a long time to be able to distinguish between average and good saxophone playing, because I hadn't been conditioned to know the difference. A lot of people who first hear country blues are fairly unmoved because they're not geared up to understanding its complexities and its message. You have to listen to a lot of music, you have to taste a lot of that wine, before you get the full measure of it. Going back to Robert Johnson when you're 40, you listen to it differently than when you're 17. You bring something new to it obviously, you bring all those years to it. But at root it's the same response. Even though I might see something new and great that I love, probably I would get more satisfaction out of re-experiencing Muddy Waters without having heard him for 6 months. There's lots of really musical people about all the time. But I'm continually being made aware how great people were. It's the same thing when you go back and read a book that you've read before and you're not the same person you were when you read it the first time. You get more out of it. And a lot of things that knocked you over when you were 17 don't knock you over to quite the same extent later on. Whether there's an improvement, I'm not sure. Sometimes deadening goes on, too. But generally speaking it would fall under sophistication.
Musician: Do you write for your own age group?
Knopfler: No, never bothered about writing for an age group, writing for anybody. You have to please yourself. And you have enough reaffirmations of mutual feelings to know that if it gets you going it's going to get other people going, too.
Musician: And it has nothing to do with age?
Knopfler: Nothing at all, absolutely not. [Mock pompous voice] Good God, man! Were you invited or are you paying for this privilege? [Normal voice] That smacks of demographics or something. But if you think kids won't relate, won't understand, then I would have to say, "Well, I hope you're not right but if you are, then too bad."
Musician: "You and Your Friend," "When it Comes to You" and "Fade to Black" remind me of the sensibility of "Where Do You Think You're Going?" The line "If you ain't with me, girl, you're gonna be without me" could slide into any of those new songs.
Knopfler: "You and Your Friend" - I just liked the line. About the time we recorded the first record I had a song called "Me and My Friends." It was a Southern boogie thing about playing in the band. I never recorded it because it never really... "You and Your Friend" just has that thing. I like keeping it open for people to use in a way that they want. If you make it specific you spoil it. The song could be just a solitary cry for some kind of support-are you going to come around to my way of thinking? It could be sexual. One of the guys saw it as a complicated love triangle. It could be anything. But in fact that came from just the resonance of "You and Your Friend" instead of "Me and My Friends."
Musician: There's one hazy area in your biography I wish you'd clear up. Everyone knows that when you were in your early 20s you were a reporter and that you taught college for a while. But wasn't there a period when you were briefly married and worked on a farm?
Knopfler: I married my sweetheart from high school when I was at university. When I left school I did one year's journalism training and two years on the paper, that's three years, then three years in university. So I was 23 when I got married. When I left university, I got a job in a professional band down here in London. I passed my first audition and played for a couple of months, then the band went bust. I didn't have a job, couldn't survive playing rock 'n' roll. So I went back home. She was a farmer's daughter from up there. Part of my surviving was just working on the farm for a bit. I'd done a lot of farm work, I used to work on the harvest there. The teaching happened after that period. I actually enjoyed the farm work. It toughened me up a lot. I've always done manual work, since I was a kid. Worked on building sites and in warehouses. Being unemployed when you want to work is the worst feeling in the world.
Musician: You must have been terribly discouraged when you had to pack up and leave London and music behind.
Knopfler: It was terrible.
Musician: What was the band you joined?
Knopfler: Brewer's Droop. They were a Cajun-based R&B band on RCA. But they lost their contract. I actually recorded a couple of things with them. They put it out later. I never heard it. They spent all their time just being nasty to one another. Which shocked me as a young kid - that you could actually be in a band with somebody that you really hated! [laughter]
Musician: John Illsley and I were talking yesterday about the tendency to say, "It's just a song, just rock 'n' roll." John Mellencamp said once that when anybody tries to write a song or paint a picture or get up on a stage, it's your pals, your family; the people closest to you who make fun of the idea and say, "Who do you think you are?" As much as a guy in your position gets a lot of backslapping, there's a tendency for the people who know you best to say "Oh, it's just rock 'n' roll." Whereas that fan outside who has all your albums might actually be closer to your private wavelength.
Knopfler: The method of working that I like, that we have, is one of mutual insults and joke telling, falling about laughing. A lot of the time it's just a bunch of extended adolescence. Maybe it helps you just get through it. You never ever think about the importance of what you're doing or this is rock history. It never gets pompous. If you haven't got a sense of humor with a band, you're dead meat, I reckon. It's the single most important thing to have. A novelist wouldn't have that he's just on his own, working away. When you're actually writing a song it can be solitary business. It's just you and the guitar. But then when you bring it to the band..
Musician: Bringing it to the band is just the beginning of a process that ends with you playing it to an arena - which is a completely different talent. We don't expect the novelist to star in the movie made from his work, but we do expect the rock songwriter to get up on-stage and perform. That must put you both a the center of the circus and, at the same time, a little outside.
Knopfler: Absolutely. And conscious of the broadcast to a certain extent Conscious of the live possibilities. Sometimes when a song's going down in the studio you say to yourself, "The lighting guy will have fun with this!"
Musician: Do you listen to rock music for pleasure these days?
Knopfler: No. Do you?
Musician: Yes.
Knopfler: Good. I'm always flipping around the stations till I find something I like-some jazz, some boogie-woogie or something. Then it stays there.
Musician: You produced Bob Dylan's "Infidels" in 1983 Dylan removed the song "Blind Willie McTell" before it was released and it just came out on his "Bootleg Series" box.
Knopfler: I've been reading about it. I read in a couple of serious newspapers that according to some people that's supposed to be the best thing he ever did in his life. I haven't heard it. It's Bob on piano and me on guitar? We played it a couple of ways.
Musician: That whole box is a good reminder of the fierceness of Dylan's creativity. That there are so many great songs that never made it onto albums...
Knopfler: What you're saying is just a variation on, "So-and-So has made an album, everybody's playing the right stuff, it's on 4,8 tracks, they've all been mixed." and my reaction to that is usually, "So What?" It really doesn't matter to me that So-and-So has made a record. I'm not saying it should matter to them that I've made a record. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't But "the fierceness of his creativity" is absolutely applicable as far as Bob's concerned. If that's a reminder of that, then great. But what I'm reminded of continually when I hear these works of art by so many people, immaculately engineered et cetera, is so what? The vast majority of this stuff doesn't enrich the world one iota in my view.
Musician: But isn't there a chance you'd just enjoy listening to it?
Knopfler: I don't enjoy listening to the stuff that most people do. No, I don't.
Musician: Do you still enjoy listening to "Highway 61" and "St. Dominic's Preview?"
Knopfler: Oh, that's different! I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about a lot of pop and rock, a lot of people who see themselves as being serious artists - windswept and interesting individuals who've got something to say about the way we are and live and go to tremendous lengths to get the picture right on their album covers. I find that kind of seriousness debilitating. For everything, for the industry for everyone. It's just tiring dealing with all that shit. You know what I'm talking about and you probably know who I'm talking about, I can't look at a picture like that or listen to a track like that and not laugh. I mean, you've got to be able to laugh at it.
Musician : Sure, but at the same time that Dire Straits don't take themselves seriously, and have lots of running jokes, at the same time that it's only rock 'n' roll and your manager likes to remind us that no rock 'n' roll will be remembered by history no matter what anybody thinks - still, there is a part of you that does have serious creative ambitions, no matter how much humor and fun goes along with it.
Knopfler: I need an aspirin. [Gets up, looking for aspirin] Do you think having been witness to all of this stuff for so long has affected you?
Musician: I try not to let it. You have to laugh about all the egos and hype and baloney, but at the same time you have to avoid becoming cynical, you have to protect your love for what's best in the music. Have you lost your romance for New York?
Knopfler: Partly. Not altogether. Same for London. Partly but not altogether. I think you have to retain certain teenage conceptions to some extent. Or even childlike ones sometimes. I would hope I could always go back and write a song similar to something I'd written in the beginning. I would hope that Ray Davies could still write another "Waterloo Sunset." We were talking of cynicism. If he could give us another one of them, it would be great. Even though you've grown up now. Some of the romanticism might have...the paint stripper of time has been at work. It's an interesting question.
Musician: As you said before, you hope that as your experience and sophistication grows, it doesn't harden your heart.
Knopfler: Well, I heard some boogie - woogie piano on the way home in the car yesterday. Every time I hear boogie-woogie piano it makes me happy, glad to be alive. And I remember when my Uncle Kingsley was playing boogie-woogie piano and how it turned me on when I was a little kid of nine. Basically, that's when I first heard rock 'n' roll. I heard the 12-bar and this logic banged into place. Crunch, crunch, "This is for me!"
-
In a studio you are paying for studio time, so the fastest you record something, the better :)
I hope you're not being serious.
-
In a studio you are paying for studio time, so the fastest you record something, the better :)
I hope you're not being serious.
pretty sure he is not...
-
Once you get to the Dire Straits level every decision is made on artistic merit.
If it takes a week to nail the perfect guitar solo, they'll take that week.
I auditioned for the OES tour at Air Studios where they were mixing the album. They took a day out just to have me play on the tracks as if I was tracking with the band.
They could have auditioned me in a rehearsal room at 5% of the cost.
-
I remember Mark being quoted on the studio version of So Far Away, saying that the outro goes on forever or just keeps on going, or something to that effect. And then they released OES, with all of those long outros and fade-outs...
-
I remember Mark being quoted on the studio version of So Far Away, saying that the outro goes on forever or just keeps on going, or something to that effect. And then they released OES, with all of those long outros and fade-outs...
And I loved everything about it.
LE
-
I remember Mark being quoted on the studio version of So Far Away, saying that the outro goes on forever or just keeps on going, or something to that effect. And then they released OES, with all of those long outros and fade-outs...
And I loved everything about it.
LE
"It", as in...? OES? Wouldn't it have been nice with some more proper endings, though?
-
I would happily have loved Planet of New Orleans and You and Your Friend to go on another few mins of Mark's amazing playing.
-
I would happily have loved Planet of New Orleans and You and Your Friend to go on another few mins of Mark's amazing playing.
Yeah, PONO seems to fade out just as it's really warming up. Back in the day I used to go to the amplifier and turn up the volume so I could catch every last drop of goodness! ;D
-
I would happily have loved Planet of New Orleans and You and Your Friend to go on another few mins of Mark's amazing playing.
Yeah, PONO seems to fade out just as it's really warming up. Back in the day I used to go to the amplifier and turn up the volume so I could catch every last drop of goodness! ;D
Same for me with "Piper". I hate these early fadeouts.
-
As an example of where a song had a good definite ending is Fade To Black.
-
Yeah, or My Bacon Roll with both, fading out into a very silent proper ending. ;D
LE
-
I always found strange to fade out a song and in the same the time keep the proper ending like on Spingsteen's "Glory days" or Stones' "stray cat blues" for example
-
To me, Terminal of Tribute To has always seemed overly vitriolic. I can see where Mark is coming from - they are his songs and those are his former bandmates - but from a multi-millionaire, and one who will never resurrect DS, it just seems uncalled for. No one would consider such bands a threat to Mark, or expect him to voice an opinion of them, if he hadn't written, recorded, and released a long song about them.
Overly vitriolic ... maybe, yes. But Mark has always written songs about people in desperate and/or ridiculous situations. It's one of his specialties. With Terminal, he wrote about his former bandmates for once, but if you disregard that fact, it's just a typical Mark Knopfler song. And a good one, as far as I'm concerned.
Mark knows perfectly well that it's not illegal for ex band members to form tribute bands. It's just a bit ... sad.
-
Mark knows perfectly well that it's not illegal for ex band members to form tribute bands. It's just a bit ... sad.
Mark's a multi-millionaire who never needs to work another day in his life.
The better 'tribute' bands are entertaining many thousands of people and keeping the music alive - that mark no longer wants to play.
If you work in a factory or office, sure you have no need to join a tribute band and play the music of Dire Straits, but these people still need to pay their bills and it's more fun to play great songs in front of 3,000 cheering fans than toil away on the 250 capacity club circuit, or retire from music completely.
If you went to a DSE show you wouldn't see anyone looking sad, audience or band.
-
To me, Terminal of Tribute To has always seemed overly vitriolic. I can see where Mark is coming from - they are his songs and those are his former bandmates - but from a multi-millionaire, and one who will never resurrect DS, it just seems uncalled for. No one would consider such bands a threat to Mark, or expect him to voice an opinion of them, if he hadn't written, recorded, and released a long song about them.
Overly vitriolic ... maybe, yes. But Mark has always written songs about people in desperate and/or ridiculous situations. It's one of his specialties. With Terminal, he wrote about his former bandmates for once, but if you disregard that fact, it's just a typical Mark Knopfler song. And a good one, as far as I'm concerned.
Mark knows perfectly well that it's not illegal for ex band members to form tribute bands. It's just a bit ... sad.
Any musician has to work to pay their bills, and the work is where the work is.
Also, most of those ex band members have other jobs as a musician, and playing in that DS tributes bands are another job, that if you know it has an audience, as a proffesional musician that have to pay their bills, you can say to that, of course, but it's another paid job.
Think that Danny Cummngs, still playing with MK, also plays with DS Legacy. It is a well paid job for a good proffesional musician.
-
Latest interview.
Alan Clark gave an interview to "Teraz Rock" magazine. I thought this excerpt was interesting and perhaps a bit controversial and debatable: Alan Clark assesses the misguided direction Dire Straits went in
"I was not enthusiastic about it, although pedal steel guitar player Paul Franklin is an excellent musician and it was great working with him. In my opinion, however, there are too many country elements on the album. I generally saw it as the wrong direction for Dire Straits. But at the time, Mark was fascinated to the maximum by the sounds of Nashville...
I don't see the problem, it's just his opinion and nothing else, he didn't like the direction the band went but it was MK band so, they went that way.
What's wrong with that?
agree, do not see any controversy here.
-
Tribute bands... the most boring topic on this forum for years and years. Only sad thing about it is that Mark Knopfler doesn't stand above this stuff and wrote a stupid song about it to give them even more attention.
LE
-
Tribute bands... the most boring topic on this forum for years and years. Only sad thing about it is that Mark Knopfler doesn't stand above this stuff and wrote a stupid song about it to give them even more attention.
LE
Totally agree.
-
I think Terminal is the worst song ever written by MK just because it is unfunny, mean and cruel, and shoots from above, towards some people who are clearly in a less fortunate position. Totally unclassy move which buries any kind of musical quialities that Terminal could posses (couple of years after that, he stole himself the chorus of Terminal and reused mercilessly it at the verses of Back on the Dance Floor).
-
Tribute bands... the most boring topic on this forum for years and years. Only sad thing about it is that Mark Knopfler doesn't stand above this stuff and wrote a stupid song about it to give them even more attention.
LE
I think Terminal is the worst song ever written by MK just because it is unfunny, mean and cruel, and shoots from above, towards some people who are clearly in a less fortunate position. Totally unclassy move which buries any kind of musical quialities that Terminal could posses (couple of years after that, he stole himself the chorus of Terminal and reused mercilessly it at the verses of Back on the Dance Floor).
I can't agree more. But at the same time, I tried to think what other options were there... I mean, if you want to write a song that makes fun of your ex-band members, how you can write it to be obvious enough and not shooting from above? Anything Mark writes WILL sound like a big brother scolding his younger one and vice versa. So LE is right, in the sense this topic of tribute bands and ex-band members is so miserable it can't possibly yield anything good.
Maybe it would be better for Mark to stay silent on the matter, but as we know songs are "pushing" him. At least it was downgraded to merely a bonus track and wasn't present on the main body of the album. "Terminal" in the title expresses the useless nature of this nonsense, as in terminal illness. And I think everybody agrees with Mark that trying to dance in his old shoes with grey hair IS a miserable experience.
And another problem Mark would face with writing this song is to make clear it's not about tribute bands per se, just about... One in particular.
-
You might be outraged by MK's attitude (I'm not), but musically it's a great song.
-
You might be outraged by MK's attitude (I'm not), but musically it's a great song.
In my mind, any song that is regarded as "disses" to other band members sucks by design. I hate John Lennon's "How Do You Sleep?" equally as Paul McCartney's attack on John. I even forgot the song's title, that's how much I don't care. It's incredible to see grown-up adults fighting like kindergarten kids. And especially stupid all these diss tracks sound after everybody in question has died. Like, what it was all about? Aren't there better things to do?
-
Tribute bands... the most boring topic on this forum for years and years. Only sad thing about it is that Mark Knopfler doesn't stand above this stuff and wrote a stupid song about it to give them even more attention.
LE
I think Terminal is the worst song ever written by MK just because it is unfunny, mean and cruel, and shoots from above, towards some people who are clearly in a less fortunate position. Totally unclassy move which buries any kind of musical quialities that Terminal could posses (couple of years after that, he stole himself the chorus of Terminal and reused mercilessly it at the verses of Back on the Dance Floor).
I can't agree more. But at the same time, I tried to think what other options were there... I mean, if you want to write a song that makes fun of your ex-band members, how you can write it to be obvious enough and not shooting from above? Anything Mark writes WILL sound like a big brother scolding his younger one and vice versa. So LE is right, in the sense this topic of tribute bands and ex-band members is so miserable it can't possibly yield anything good.
Maybe it would be better for Mark to stay silent on the matter, but as we know songs are "pushing" him. At least it was downgraded to merely a bonus track and wasn't present on the main body of the album. "Terminal" in the title expresses the useless nature of this nonsense, as in terminal illness. And I think everybody agrees with Mark that trying to dance in his old shoes with grey hair IS a miserable experience.
And another problem Mark would face with writing this song is to make clear it's not about tribute bands per se, just about... One in particular.
MK could had been elegant and didn't write a song about them.
There was no need.
For me, that's the lowest MK ever went in his career, total lack of class here.
-
Did Mark ever talk about this song? Is it possible to find these words somewhere?
-
I mean, if you want to write a song that makes fun of your ex-band members, how you can write it to be obvious enough and not shooting from above?
Yes. Well why would you?
Everyone he's ever played on stage with has bust a gut to put on a good show and by doing so been part of Mark's success.
-
Did Mark ever talk about this song? Is it possible to find these words somewhere?
Of course not. He never spoke to anyone who would even be aware of the damn thing either. Guy was asked about the song on his forum and said "Mark has said it all really."
-
Did Mark ever talk about this song? Is it possible to find these words somewhere?
Of course not. He never spoke to anyone who would even be aware of the damn thing either. Guy was asked about the song on his forum and said "Mark has said it all really."
Exactly. I have no more questions ;)
-
I mean, if you want to write a song that makes fun of your ex-band members, how you can write it to be obvious enough and not shooting from above?
Yes. Well why would you?
Everyone he's ever played on stage with has bust a gut to put on a good show and by doing so been part of Mark's success.
Indeed, this was a bit disgusting on his part. Some artists go even further and disrespect the audience, which paid them their money and made their success in the first place. I think this is the worst example of bad behaviour from the artist, but this diss tracks things more or less fall into private life territory, dirty linen style. I always keep reminding myself these guys aren't saints either, so I guess, it's a fair exchange.
-
Guy was asked about the song on his forum and said "Mark has said it all really."
Guy said that this song was his favorite from the album.
I REALLY like this song.
TOTT shows, in my opinion, a ironic and a kick-ass MK as a long time was no seen.
I never saw/read MK having a bad spoke about cover/tribute bands.
He knows that his history is told by cover bands too.
Ahead Of The Game tells about it.
DSL was named as Dire Straits on some countries during tours.
I never saw Phil Palmer saying otherwise.
There is an interview with Phil on Anderton's and he almost give shoulders to DS, even when most of his actual money cames from DSL.
Would be the same if Guy Pratt, Snowy White, Tim Renwick and Dick Parry starts out the Pink Floyd Legacy as the most important members from PF.
-
"DSL was named as Dire Straits on some countries during tours"
This shouldn't happen.
-
Guy was asked about the song on his forum and said "Mark has said it all really."
There is an interview with Phil on Anderton's and he almost give shoulders to DS, even when most of his actual money cames from DSL.
Would be the same if Guy Pratt, Snowy White, Tim Renwick and Dick Parry starts out the Pink Floyd Legacy as the most important members from PF.
It's a never-ending story of Frontman vs. Musicians. I recently posted Stewart Copeland's interviews on the general discussion thread, where he touches on this topic a little bit. And on The Police channels, you can see everybody sharing their stories and experiences. Everybody except Sting of course! He's got better things to do! And both Stewart and Andy ended up having tribute bands/projects.
Nothing wrong with tribute bands, the music needs to be played. With this said, I think it's important to be polite, avoid shady business and false advertising, disrespect tracks, and pay your royalties if needed, and other things, a lot of which DSL guys failed to deliver. They said ridiculous stuff. They were false advertising. They did everything they could to build the legacy they have now.
-
Mark may have had his reasons for writing TOTT.
He has every right in the world to express his opinion about things that don't suit him.
Nothing else is being done here!
TOTT is an awesome song and there is some great guitar playing.
-
Mark may have had his reasons for writing TOTT.
He has every right in the world to express his opinion about things that don't suit him.
Nothing else is being done here!
TOTT is an awesome song and there is some great guitar playing.
I think so too.
-
Mark may have had his reasons for writing TOTT.
He has every right in the world to express his opinion about things that don't suit him.
Nothing else is being done here!
TOTT is an awesome song and there is some great guitar playing.
Of course he has the right of not being elegant and make fun of his old band mates that are paying their bills as they are not rich, and at the same time they are generating income for MK as evertime someone play a copyrighted MK song, he earns money.
MK has all the right of behave as he wants, nobody can be perfect all the time.
For me, TOTT is a shame song that should had never existed, is the one I like the less from the entire DS, MK, NHB catalogue.
-
As mentioned, I also find it very problematic. And it takes cheap shots - "No original members". As if that were such a big thing. Alan was not an original member, but essential to the band's second phase and TR, etc. There were only four original members, one being Mark and one being John, so it is not exactly surprising that those would not constitute a tribute band ???
-
As mentioned, I also find it very problematic. And it takes cheap shots - "No original members". As if that were such a big thing. Alan was not an original member, but essential to the band's second phase and TR, etc. There were only four original members, one being Mark and one being John, so it is not exactly surprising that those would not constitute a tribute band ???
John and Pick both played with DS legacy a certain number of gigs, I'd say that's original members.
-
Mark may have had his reasons for writing TOTT.
He has every right in the world to express his opinion about things that don't suit him.
Nothing else is being done here!
TOTT is an awesome song and there is some great guitar playing.
Of course he has the right of not being elegant and make fun of his old band mates that are paying their bills as they are not rich, and at the same time they are generating income for MK as evertime someone play a copyrighted MK song, he earns money.
MK has all the right of behave as he wants, nobody can be perfect all the time.
For me, TOTT is a shame song that should had never existed, is the one I like the less from the entire DS, MK, NHB catalogue.
And just as he has the right to behave as he wants, we have the right to call him out on his bullshit. If I'm allowed to say such things around here. He's not immune to criticism just because he's MK.
That said, the cover bands get the last laugh. Who's on tour, and who's retired from playing live?
-
>That said, the cover bands get the last laugh. Who's on tour, and who's retired from playing live?
Not sure you have nailed the last laugh definition.
They are only playing live because of MK songs.
People are only interested in them because of MK songs.
They have to pay MK every time they perform.
Even when MK dies they will still have to pay.
I laugh whenever I listen to TOTT because I don't take it seriously.
-
>That said, the cover bands get the last laugh. Who's on tour, and who's retired from playing live?
Not sure you have nailed the last laugh definition.
They are only playing live because of MK songs.
People are only interested in them because of MK songs.
They have to pay MK every time they perform.
Even when MK dies they will still have to pay.
I laugh whenever I listen to TOTT because I don't take it seriously.
Brilliantly said, my friend. I think this "one-dimensional" thinking is a problem even people like AC are victims of. It's like they take MK songs for granted, like something that's just "there", and if you helped to arrange one of the songs, or wrote merely the ending to Romeo And Juliet, suddenly you co-wrote the song. It doesn't work like that. Mark spent 10,000 hours writing it, and your 10-hour or 20-hour addition to it is not that serious, though still valuable.
You even go further and hint that "Terminal Of Tribute To" is not a serious song. It's a good point. Look at Mark, he looks like the happiest granddad in the world and the least violent person on the planet, how somebody like this could write such a harsh, rude song? It's certainly a joke, trolling. The fact they responded with "3 Chord Trick" makes it even more hilarious, and certainly, if somebody's got the last laugh here, that would be Mark.
-
In reality no one is talking about this but an online forum.
Danny is one of the key members of DSL and yet regularly appears on Mark's projects.
DSE are selling out 3,000 seater arenas, the fans absolutely love the show and Mark gets a handsome pay check at the end of it.
End of story.
-
Mark knows perfectly well that it's not illegal for ex band members to form tribute bands. It's just a bit ... sad.
Mark's a multi-millionaire who never needs to work another day in his life.
The better 'tribute' bands are entertaining many thousands of people and keeping the music alive - that mark no longer wants to play.
If you work in a factory or office, sure you have no need to join a tribute band and play the music of Dire Straits, but these people still need to pay their bills and it's more fun to play great songs in front of 3,000 cheering fans than toil away on the 250 capacity club circuit, or retire from music completely.
If you went to a DSE show you wouldn't see anyone looking sad, audience or band.
Chris, I think I understand why some people would go to see DSE, and I certainly understand why some ex band members take part in it. I'm not saying it's irrational. It's just not very cool.
PS: I was in awe watching you and the rest of the band in 1992, everyone's contribution on that tour was incredible. But I must say that these days, I have more time for people like you or Paul Franklin, who do their own thing and have moved on, than I have for Phil Palmer or Alan Clark.
-
But I must say that these days, I have more time for people like you or Paul Franklin, who do their own thing and have moved on, than I have for Phil Palmer or Alan Clark.
So well said Rail King. DS tribute bands with 'original members' remind me of The Doors situation, where two of them (keyboardist and guitarist) decided to tour with The Doors' music and the other member (the drummer) decided to sue them for the misleading name "The Doors of the 21st Century". They are amazing people, Ray in particular is one of the best storytellers I ever heard, and what a keyboardist he was. But I have to admit, their way of dealing with the band's legacy wasn't the best I've seen, and I'm on John Densmore's side.
Nothing wrong with playing music you have/had a lot of connection to, the problem is when you run into the court for this and ruin your relationship with somebody. And the best thing yet, yes, is just to continue doing your thing without capitalising on previous accomplishments. It's hard to do though, and one can argue Mark is doing the same by practically doing his own DS tribute + solo songs. But that's debatable.
-
Chris can speak for himself, but to my eyes he and Paul F were never defined by the DS brand in the same way as Alan, they were both known primarily as highly regarded session musicians.
Now, I know that Alan also did a lot of other stuff but it tended to be with acts associated with DS - EC, Tina, Dylan, Jimmy Nail.
Phil is a more interesting case in that in the 80s he was also in the same boat as Chris and PF I would say but nowadays would be more closely associated with DS, I guess the tribute stuff has played a part in that.
-
Is it certain that Terminal is specifically about DSL and DSE, though? The song applies to many bands: https://ultimateclassicrock.com/bands-no-original-members/
-
As mentioned, I also find it very problematic. And it takes cheap shots - "No original members". As if that were such a big thing. Alan was not an original member, but essential to the band's second phase and TR, etc. There were only four original members, one being Mark and one being John, so it is not exactly surprising that those would not constitute a tribute band ???
John and Pick both played with DS legacy a certain number of gigs, I'd say that's original members.
Not sure what you meant exactly, but "No original members" is a line from the song.
Wasn't the assumed impetus for this song "The Straits"? Wasn't that the band being discussed at the time?
-
As mentioned, I also find it very problematic. And it takes cheap shots - "No original members". As if that were such a big thing. Alan was not an original member, but essential to the band's second phase and TR, etc. There were only four original members, one being Mark and one being John, so it is not exactly surprising that those would not constitute a tribute band ???
John and Pick both played with DS legacy a certain number of gigs, I'd say that's original members.
Not sure what you meant exactly, but "No original members" is a line from the song.
Wasn't the assumed impetus for this song "The Straits"? Wasn't that the band being discussed at the time?
For all I know, even Mark himself could play with DSL and it won't change the fact he's just a guest player there (imagine that lol!), like Pick, John or Danny. The masterminds behind this all are still Alan and Phil, the heart of the band. And the guitar player, of course.
It's one big mess that I still don't completely understand. The Straits, Dire Straits Experience, Dire Straits Legacy, so many of them! I believe after some controversy Dire Straits Legacy attempted to rename itself to DSL so as not to confuse the audience, I don't think they succeeded as it still has Dire Straits all over the place.
Why you need "original members" is beyond me. It's a pity such great music creates so much controversy, not the legacy I'd want it to have. And like a lot of things, it could've done much better. From humble beginnings to all this confusion that still reverberates to this day and likely will never go away for years to come.
-
Brilliantly said, my friend. I think this "one-dimensional" thinking is a problem even people like AC are victims of. It's like they take MK songs for granted, like something that's just "there", and if you helped to arrange one of the songs, or wrote merely the ending to Romeo And Juliet, suddenly you co-wrote the song.
I bet Alan composed the Romeo live intro too. Because he played it as Layla intro in 1988
-
As mentioned, I also find it very problematic. And it takes cheap shots - "No original members". As if that were such a big thing. Alan was not an original member, but essential to the band's second phase and TR, etc. There were only four original members, one being Mark and one being John, so it is not exactly surprising that those would not constitute a tribute band ???
John and Pick both played with DS legacy a certain number of gigs, I'd say that's original members.
Not sure what you meant exactly, but "No original members" is a line from the song.
Wasn't the assumed impetus for this song "The Straits"? Wasn't that the band being discussed at the time?
For all I know, even Mark himself could play with DSL and it won't change the fact he's just a guest player there (imagine that lol!), like Pick, John or Danny. The masterminds behind this all are still Alan and Phil, the heart of the band. And the guitar player, of course.
It's one big mess that I still don't completely understand. The Straits, Dire Straits Experience, Dire Straits Legacy, so many of them! I believe after some controversy Dire Straits Legacy attempted to rename itself to DSL so as not to confuse the audience, I don't think they succeeded as it still has Dire Straits all over the place.
Why you need "original members" is beyond me. It's a pity such great music creates so much controversy, not the legacy I'd want it to have. And like a lot of things, it could've done much better. From humble beginnings to all this confusion that still reverberates to this day and likely will never go away for years to come.
Maybe you need to go to the genesis of all this...
Marco Caviglia set up a gig, I think in Italy, with his cover band, and he invites DS ex musicians to play with them, John and Alan betwen them, as far as I recall Phil was also there as he and Phil were mates from the Roma tennis club. I also think Chris was there. The ex DS members were not convinced of this but they thought that it would be funny to play the old songs with the old mates, and they do the gig.
The gig is very succesful, they had a lot of fun, and Alan, Chris and Phil decided to do one more gig, a charity gig at the RAH under the name of The Straits, that did very well too, with Steve Ferrone on drums, Micky Feat on bass and Terence Reiss on vocals and guitar.
As that gig went so well and promoters started to ask them to do more gigs, and as the audience seems to enjoy those shows, and in the end, this is work and they are proffesionals that have to pay their bills, they keep playing as The Straits. At this point, Marco Caviglia is out of the picture.
During that period, Alan and Phil start to suggest that the band should write their own songs and play them, they start playing one written by Alan called "Jesus Street", but there is a part of the band (Chris White and Terence Reiss) that prefer to play just the DS hits, consequently, Phil leaves the band as he is also very busy with sessions in Italy, and some months after, Alan leaves the band as he really wants to write songs for the band.
After that, Marco Caviglia enters again at the picture as he is friend of Phil and they form DS Legends. As Alan was playing sessions too and in many of them he was coinciding with Phil, they ask Alan to rejoin, and he does under the premise that they should write their own songs.
That new name is because of a petition of John Illsley that not using The Straits as it is confussion, Chris White that wants to keep playing the hits with Terence Reiss and other musicians, put the "DS Experience" name to his band. Now we have The Straits dividing in two bands. Mel Collins and Danny Cummings joins DS Legacy. Chris Whitten joined DS Experience as he is friend with Chris White for a series of gigs, but not permanently.
DS Legends play some gigs with John Illsley and Pick Withers but not together, and John ask them to change that "Legends" into other thing less confusing, and they agreed that "Legacy" would be better.
As both Alan and Phil keep playing a lot of sessions, many with Trevor Horn as producer, they ask Trevor to join them as bass player, that he does, and having Trevor in the band, they decide to make a record with stuff mostly written by Alan and Phil, which in my opinion is very good:
https://open.spotify.com/intl-es/album/1UzH2UlZOgcI9C7dT2PvRa?si=B6Qv_2yOQlGiDesh_FTZvA
Between sessions with Trevorn Horn and others, mostly in Italy and the UK, they keep playing gigs with Trevor and in the US they are usually joined by Jack Sonni and Tommy Mandel, and they include in the set some songs of their own record and even songs from Trevor Horn legacy like "Owner of a lonely heart".
And that's where we are now, both band playing their gigs, in the case of Legacy, betwen their own studio sessions, in the case of Experience, I don't know if Chris White is still playing sessions but I'm sure the rest of musicians of the band, that are hired, they are doing sessions.
The moral thing and the sadness etc etc etc, well, in my opinion is just some of you idealizising a romantic idea of defending MK against what you consider to be an attack to him. For me it's just a bunch of ex members who still are proffesional musicians playing live gigs which, according of the number of tickets they sell, have a demand, and for them is work that pay their bills, and also they have the bless of John Illsley, who is still MK's best friend, and also everytime both bands play the DS stuff, MK gets paid.
So, following the timeline, we have that the idea didn't came from them (the ex DS members) but they started it with Caviglia just for fun and playing with old mates, and seeing the response of the fans, and that in the end, is work that pay their bills, they keep doing it, having fun playing the old songs of the band, with the old mates of the band, and for the old fans of the band, and in between, they managed to satisfy the need of Alan and Phil to write their own songs and make a record.
-
Hey jbaent, no wonder you wrote a book about Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler. Thank you for this highly detailed analysis of the Dire Straits 'official' tribute band status conundrum.
There are also successful independent bands playing Mark's music, like Great Straits and Brothers In Band. And Marco had one of, if not the oldest DS tribute bands in history before going into this highly confusing ex-members cacophony.
It's not fair to accuse critics of DSL just to assume that they are MK fanboys or attorneys who want to defend their idol, as mistakes were undeniably made along the way. The demand is obviously here as well. Demand for Mark's music is over the roof it seems judging by the popularity of tribute bands.
But that makes you wish even more for this to be done properly. I still would take a good independent DS tribute band like Great Straits over DSL any time.
-
And this idea of having a tribute band to play and release original music just annihilates my brain. Like, can't you choose what you want to do? So you want to play original music or Mark Knopfler's? How are you supposed to do both at the same time? I'm afraid it's only possible for MK as he's the writer.
How it could be improved? First things first, from listening to John Illsley and changing the name right away. The name of the tribute band should never be confusing, period. It's the simplest form of respect to the band you're paying tribute to. It should not start with the band's name verbatim followed by a random word.
Even this could be enough to eliminate like 66% of prejudice against DSL, but these guys... They are really determined. They're pipers to the end!
-
Hey jbaent, no wonder you wrote a book about Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler. Thank you for this highly detailed analysis of the Dire Straits 'official' tribute band status conundrum.
There are also successful independent bands playing Mark's music, like Great Straits and Brothers In Band. And Marco had one of, if not the oldest DS tribute bands in history before going into this highly confusing ex-members cacophony.
It's not fair to accuse critics of DSL just to assume that they are MK fanboys or attorneys who want to defend their idol, as mistakes were undeniably made along the way. The demand is obviously here as well. Demand for Mark's music is over the roof it seems judging by the popularity of tribute bands.
But that makes you wish even more for this to be done properly. I still would take a good independent DS tribute band like Great Straits over DSL any time.
The thing is I never considered The Straits, DS Legacy or DS Experience like tribute bands.
Tribute bands are formed by fans (sometimes just people who are "tribute bands proffesionals" that doesn't care about who are tributing) that play the DS songs to show their love for that songs.
Initially Marco Caviglia had a tribute band, I think it was called "Solid rock" or "Solid rockers" which was to my knowledge, the first one in Europe, but DS Legacy or DS Experience are not bands formed by fans but of ex band members so for me, is another different thing.
I put Great Straits, Dire Strats, Real Straits, Alchemy Band and the rest in the tribute bands category, as they are fans, but those with ex members, for me are just bands of proffesional musicians that were old band members playing the DS hits, how to call them? for me, ex band members bands.
-
The thing is I never considered The Straits, DS Legacy or DS Experience like tribute bands.
Tribute bands are formed by fans (sometimes just people who are "tribute bands proffesionals" that doesn't care about who are tributing) that play the DS songs to show their love for that songs.
Initially Marco Caviglia had a tribute band, I think it was called "Solid rock" or "Solid rockers" which was to my knowledge, the first one in Europe, but DS Legacy or DS Experience are not bands formed by fans but of ex band members so for me, is another different thing.
I put Great Straits, Dire Strats, Real Straits, Alchemy Band and the rest in the tribute bands category, as they are fans, but those with ex members, for me are just bands of proffesional musicians that were old band members playing the DS hits, how to call them? for me, ex band members bands.
Interesting... I think if you play somebody else's song it is always a cover no matter who you are and what you do with it regardless of genre or arrangement. Mark played many covers himself. There are even many songs that are more popular in their cover version, it doesn't make them not covers.
And if your band plays somebody else's music it's a tribute band regardless. The material dictates the definition of your band, not who you are. So DSL is still a tribute band, just with "original members".
This definitely puts more stress on them as they are supposed to be the definitive tribute band, unlike those made by fans for fans. And again, you expect them to act with more class and dignity than those without such prerequisites, and they deserve scrutiny and yes, criticism.
-
I still would take a good independent DS tribute band like Great Straits over DSL any time.
I would take the one band that does the music and the legacy justice, and that very clearly means DSE.
99% of the tribute bands have no energy and as soon as someone starts singing in a heavy continental accent the illusion is lost.
-
I have just booked to see Alchemy Live at my local theatre in June. I saw them last year and they were very enjoyable, so I'm really looking forward to seeing them again. The venue is very intimate - 127 seats. I much prefer seeing a real tribute band than any of the ex-DS bands who play in much larger venues.
-
I much prefer seeing a real tribute band than any of the ex-DS bands who play in much larger venues.
Why if it is much lower quality?
-
Out of all the people being mentioned the only person that plays sessions outside the Dire Straits envelope is Danny Cummings.
People make their life seem uber busy and successful on Facebook and Instagram, but even Trevor Horn spends much of his time playing tribute gigs to his own productions.
-
I much prefer seeing a real tribute band than any of the ex-DS bands who play in much larger venues.
Why if it is much lower quality?
They were excellent and had lots of energy and the singer didn't have a heavy continental accent like Marco Caviglia has. Have you seen Alchemy Live btw?
-
I still would take a good independent DS tribute band like Great Straits over DSL any time.
I would take the one band that does the music and the legacy justice, and that very clearly means DSE.
99% of the tribute bands have no energy and as soon as someone starts singing in a heavy continental accent the illusion is lost.
It's funny how our views can't be more opposed. I view DSE as a lower-quality product as it sort of claims to be superior to regular fans-formed bands BECAUSE they have Dire Straits pizza delivery guy in their lineup. Somehow having an ex-band member makes them extra-confident in what they do when it's not the point.
If we're brutally honest here, if these musicians are so brilliant and play with this outstanding energy, why do they play in a tribute band anyway? Don't they have better things to do? I'm not trying to offend anybody, it's just an interesting discussion of the psychology and philosophy of being a professional musician.
-
I much prefer seeing a real tribute band than any of the ex-DS bands who play in much larger venues.
Why if it is much lower quality?
They were excellent and had lots of energy and the singer didn't have a heavy continental accent like Marco Caviglia has. Have you seen Alchemy Live btw?
Continental accent... you couldn't stress out better that you are Brits. :lol :lol (no continental offence meant)
LE
-
I much prefer seeing a real tribute band than any of the ex-DS bands who play in much larger venues.
Why if it is much lower quality?
They were excellent and had lots of energy and the singer didn't have a heavy continental accent like Marco Caviglia has. Have you seen Alchemy Live btw?
Continental accent... you couldn't stress out better that you are Brits. :lol :lol (no continental offence meant)
LE
Sorry, LE - I was just reiterating Chris W's words! The singer in Alchemy Live was British! ;)
-
If we're brutally honest here, if these musicians are so brilliant and play with this outstanding energy, why do they play in a tribute band anyway? Don't they have better things to do? I'm not trying to offend anybody, it's just an interesting discussion of the psychology and philosophy of being a professional musician.
Well I have clashed with you many times. You seem to excel in being brutally rude and about things you understand very little of. You were brutally critical of Pick Withers in a previous thread. You aren't trying to 'offend anyone' but you are calling a superb musician a 'pizza delivery guy'.
What is it that YOU DO that enriches society and makes thousands of people feel better every week?????
-
These are the kind of discussions and posts that make 'A Mark In Time' an acquired taste when it comes to discussing Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler.
Too much fantasy and not enough reality.
-
Out of all the people being mentioned the only person that plays sessions outside the Dire Straits envelope is Danny Cummings.
People make their life seem uber busy and successful on Facebook and Instagram, but even Trevor Horn spends much of his time playing tribute gigs to his own productions.
Trevor Horn playing with DLS is one of the strangest things I ever witnessed in my whole life. Again, talking about legacy. It's all going to be written in your obituary. Imagine you're a legendary English record producer and musician, Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, and at the age of 70 you're playing in a Dire Straits tribute band with a singer with a heavy continental accent.
-
Out of all the people being mentioned the only person that plays sessions outside the Dire Straits envelope is Danny Cummings.
People make their life seem uber busy and successful on Facebook and Instagram, but even Trevor Horn spends much of his time playing tribute gigs to his own productions.
Chris, do you think Trevor actually NEEDS to work or does he just enjoy it? Maybe he doesn't have MK's publishing but he still surely makes a pretty penny from all the great records he was involved in?
-
I presume he enjoys it.
Musicians want to make music.
I might check out of this conversation because it's taken a nasty turn over a few recent posts.
-
These are the kind of discussions and posts that make 'A Mark In Time' an acquired taste when it comes to discussing Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler.
Too much fantasy and not enough reality.
Hello Chris, nothing wrong about fantasy. This forum is made by fans for fans and not "official" in any way. Your posts imply you are a very realistic guy but not a fan or supporter of MK in any way, apart from money related things that you often mention. No problem with you not being a fan but it feels difficult to discuss with you as you seem to have totally other motivation to hang around here. I wonder if you in the meantime have listened to any of MK's solo works, have an opinion about Chad Cromwell for example or the drum department on these solo albums and many other things. If Quizzy triggers you, ignore him would be my advice. I suggest to have a look at his YouTube channel where he, as a Russian guy under the most difficult circumstances, gives a lot of pleasure and joy to many people who love being educated about guitar playing in MK's work. I would bet he knows more about (classical) music than you. Music, not music business. So give him a break in being enthusiastic. I guess as a man of clear and direct speech you will understand that this is not meant as an offence but on the other hand, I am not a fan of kissing anyones ass only because he once was touring with Dire Straits.
What themes would you like to discuss? Feel free to open a new thread anytime.
LE
-
Hello Chris, nothing wrong about fantasy.
The type of fantasy on this forum where people peddle fantasy as fact is toxic.
I would bet he knows more about (classical) music than you. Music, not music business. So give him a break in being enthusiastic. I guess as a man of clear and direct speech you will understand that this is not meant as an offence but on the other hand, I am not a fan of kissing anyones ass only because he once was touring with Dire Straits.
Well firstly this comment is absolute BS on many, many levels. I assume you don't now very much about me, my education, my background.
Again, more fantasy than reality.
Secondly, no matter what ANYONE does in the real world, there is absolutely NO excuse to abuse people personally on a frickin' music forum, just chit chatting about Dire Straits and it's members.
No excuse. And 'Quizzy' indulges in this repeatedly. Which I'm afraid makes him seem a much lesser authority on music and more of a bully.
I was once told on this forum that I should seek 'psychological help' based on my playing in Dire Straits. That kind of thing, along with calling an extremely good hearted person and an absolutely outstanding musician a 'dire straits pizza delivery guy' is at best childish, at worst out and out personal abuse that has no place on a discussion forum.
I'm afraid it makes me see that kind of person as much lower value to the forum than someone who can discuss Mark and the music of Dire Straits in a sensible, realistic and polite way.
-
Well, thanks for calling my comment "absolute bullshit on many, many levels". Speaking of toxic.
And it would be easier to know more about your "education and background" if you told us a little bit more about it, don't you think?
LE
-
guys, jeez, calm down, all of you, not going to bother reading through the dissing (or whatever you want to call it) back and forth on here, but i will need to close this thread if the actual topic is snowed under by childish bickering/pissing contests.
and before anyone feels attacked personally, not targetting anyone personally, just want this to stop and continue with the topic at hand, or else,..closed. (and this goes for all threads. FOCUS on the topic and refrain from becoming personal)
-
I think we just generally look at things from a different perspective, apart from having generational, geographical, language and other gaps. Chris looks at this forum as a place "to discuss Mark and the music of Dire Straits in a sensible, realistic and polite way", to me it's more like a chat with friends to quickly express your thoughts and get a quick response. Messages here go really fast and nobody's going to read older messages. I never dig old messages here, I'm only interested in the ongoing conversation, and truth be told, I get enjoyment from all these discussions, even when people attack me which happens all the time.
Chris, this is definitely not a place to discuss Mark and the music of Dire Straits in a sensible, realistic and polite way. It's a really tight group here at AMIT and just a bunch of core members that barely expanded over the years. You've got Dusty, LE, superval99, jbaent, and occasionally dropping Pottel, all the usual suspects that you can count using two hands. I don't know any one of them personally, but they all are fine folks, and I'm sure you too. The Internet is a shitty place to be in, people troll here, you never know their intentions, you always get triggered by things that otherwise be absolutely normal to you.
I can say for myself I know not a lot of people read AMIT and participate in the discussion here, let alone band members, so it's a good place to be completely in zero gravity with your thoughts and let your fingers write what you think. As LE mentioned, me having a public outlet for my thoughts — I would never ever say things publicly in the way I tell them here. And as you don't know my intentions from just my words, you can mistakingly think I'm a bully. I'm not. I love Guy Fletcher, I love Mark Knopfler, and I love Chris Whitten. As you say, end of the story.
-
mmmmmmmm.......
-
Out of all the people being mentioned the only person that plays sessions outside the Dire Straits envelope is Danny Cummings.
People make their life seem uber busy and successful on Facebook and Instagram, but even Trevor Horn spends much of his time playing tribute gigs to his own productions.
Alan, Phil and Trevor are still playing sessions and in case or Trevor producing, but they are mostly doing it in Italy, with some of the big names there, and also on some UK productions by Trevor as well.
-
I think we just generally look at things from a different perspective
Maybe?
My perspective is you can discuss a band, you can discuss music without being brutally personal about people. Critique their playing, but if you don't know them, do not pass judgement on their personality or motives.
That is just being a decent human in my opinion.
-
Alan, Phil and Trevor are still playing sessions and in case or Trevor producing
Nothing really of note.
The second and third albums I ever played on were huge smash hits in Italy, but they aren't on ny resume because people outside of Italy have never heard of them.
-
Well, thanks for calling my comment "absolute bullshit on many, many levels". Speaking of toxic.
And it would be easier to know more about your "education and background" if you told us a little bit more about it, don't you think?
LE
But you went ahead and guessed it anyway.
No one has asked me about my background. It's not up to me to swerve people away from fantasy and guess work when I have no way of knowing what they are about to post.
-
Alan, Phil and Trevor are still playing sessions and in case or Trevor producing
Nothing really of note.
The second and third albums I ever played on were huge smash hits in Italy, but they aren't on ny resume because people outside of Italy have never heard of them.
Well, nothing really of note worlwide, of course, but big artists in any European country is a big deal in that country and it is work in the end, that sentence of you sounded like artists that doesn't sell big worldwide are not worth...
-
guys, jeez, calm down, all of you
It's a perennial problem with certain fans.
Not something that comes from all members. Those people are the ones that should be told to grow up.
-
Well, nothing really of note worlwide, of course, but big artists in any European country is a big deal in that country and it is work in the end, that sentence of you sounded like artists that doesn't sell big worldwide are not worth...
Just pointing out I played on huge Italian albums in the early 80's that I don't even mention. I hired Phil Palmer as a sideman for one of them.
-
Well, nothing really of note worlwide, of course, but big artists in any European country is a big deal in that country and it is work in the end, that sentence of you sounded like artists that doesn't sell big worldwide are not worth...
Just pointing out I played on huge Italian albums in the early 80's that I don't even mention. I hired Phil Palmer as a sideman for one of them.
Also Phil played with some of the biggest artists in Spain, Alejandro Sanz which is big also in South America and known in North America (he won several grammy awards), Danny Cummings played with people like Jarabe de palo (also big in South America) and Radio Futura in the 80's, and also yourself played with some of our big bands, Presuntos Implicados.
All works of note, althought not in a Paul McCartney or DS size.
-
Sure Im just talking about the last 5 - 10 years.
Most of the people being discussed are mostly playing tribute shows. Only Danny regularly plays with Mark on new original material.
I am now only playing on new original material, but it is slim pickings as a lot of records are made with programmed percussion these days.
It's 100% true that the only way to really survive as a full time musician is to play live regularly.
Given the choice of playing someone else's amazing songs, in a very nice arena to 3,000 people, or play original songs in small sweaty clubs and paying yourself $100 a week, I'm sorry but no one here would choose the latter.
That's what riles me about these discussions. Lots of holier than thou pronouncements, mostly made by people who've never walked the walk.
-
Sure Im just talking about the last 5 - 10 years.
Most of the people being discussed are mostly playing tribute shows. Only Danny regularly plays with Mark on new original material.
I am now only playing on new original material, but it is slim pickings as a lot of records are made with programmed percussion these days.
It's 100% true that the only way to really survive as a full time musician is to play live regularly.
Given the choice of playing someone else's amazing songs, in a very nice arena to 3,000 people, or play original songs in small sweaty clubs and paying yourself $100 a week, I'm sorry but no one here would choose the latter.
That's what riles me about these discussions. Lots of holier than thou pronouncements, mostly made by people who've never walked the walk.
Yes, that's why I always try to remark that they are proffesional musicians that have bills to pay, not millionaires that doesn't need to work again, and any money for work is good money, and if you can choose, as you say Chris, the best payed work is the best work indeed.
-
I'm reading the Ed Bicknell message before I post it and there is something very interesting about "Terminal of tribute to"... nobody thought the song could be about ANY tribute band, which makes sense...
I'm posting the Bicknell message soon, promise.
-
Would be the same if Guy Pratt, Snowy White, Tim Renwick and Dick Parry starts out the Pink Floyd Legacy as the most important members from PF.
Well said, Rolo
-
That's what riles me about these discussions. Lots of holier than thou pronouncements, mostly made by people who've never walked the walk.
The person who demands silence is usually the loudest one. I can write a book from all your condescending narratives and suggestions for people to grow up and stop living in fantasy as if we are a bunch of stupid toddlers here. You are doing things you accuse people of doing with this condescending attitude and holier-than-thou pronouncements and this is what bothers me each time. I know you're older, more experienced, more talented, luckier, wiser and wealthier than me, but jeez, can you stop stressing this fact in every single message?
@ Moderators, don't be too angry about this, it's not the worst that happened on this forum and I know Chris can handle this discussion, he's above this (and he'll be more than happy to say it again).
-
As a moderator I'll just ask please that we try to steer the topic back on-topic. Alan made some interesting comments about the direction DS went in.
-
I'm reading the Ed Bicknell message before I post it and there is something very interesting about "Terminal of tribute to"... nobody thought the song could be about ANY tribute band, which makes sense...
I'm posting the Bicknell message soon, promise.
Quoting myself, thinking that the song could be about tribute bands in general, some parts of the songs are more correct now for me...
-
I still would take a good independent DS tribute band like Great Straits over DSL any time.
I would take the one band that does the music and the legacy justice, and that very clearly means DSE.
99% of the tribute bands have no energy and as soon as someone starts singing in a heavy continental accent the illusion is lost.
Well, this is true. I have absolutely no patience for DS tribute bands, but I once listened to one (they are Spanish and very popular there) and had to turn it off 3 seconds in due to the terrible accent and overall vocal delivery. I really couldn't understand what the guy was singing.
-
I'm reading the Ed Bicknell message before I post it and there is something very interesting about "Terminal of tribute to"... nobody thought the song could be about ANY tribute band, which makes sense...
I'm posting the Bicknell message soon, promise.
Quoting myself, thinking that the song could be about tribute bands in general, some parts of the songs are more correct now for me...
But Ed said he never heard the song and never discussed tribute bands with Mark, so I'm not sure how you can draw these conclusions from that. To me, it's clear that Mark is saying stuff nearly from the first-person perspective, "You've been faking it soooo long. Now you don't know right from wrong." For me, it's really hard to convince myself Mark is doing it in character and not saying it to somebody directly, that would be too far for imagination. Occam's razor tells me the song's gotta be about THE band and THE person, not about A band or A person.
-
guys, jeez, calm down, all of you
It's a perennial problem with certain fans.
Not something that comes from all members. Those people are the ones that should be told to grow up.
which is why i explicitly mentioned not to take my statement personal.
-
Would be the same if Guy Pratt, Snowy White, Tim Renwick and Dick Parry starts out the Pink Floyd Legacy as the most important members from PF.
Well said, Rolo
did you just quote and applaud yourself? lol
-
That's what riles me about these discussions. Lots of holier than thou pronouncements, mostly made by people who've never walked the walk.
The person who demands silence is usually the loudest one. I can write a book from all your condescending narratives and suggestions for people to grow up and stop living in fantasy as if we are a bunch of stupid toddlers here. You are doing things you accuse people of doing with this condescending attitude and holier-than-thou pronouncements and this is what bothers me each time. I know you're older, more experienced, more talented, luckier, wiser and wealthier than me, but jeez, can you stop stressing this fact in every single message?
@ Moderators, don't be too angry about this, it's not the worst that happened on this forum and I know Chris can handle this discussion, he's above this (and he'll be more than happy to say it again).
not being angry, i just want to stay on topic. and we are far from topic now. if it drags on like this it becomes really boring
Yall should go read Ed's statement, it is the best post in ages..., then drink a cuppa and come back here to discuss the Alan interview.
-
Could not disagree more with older posts. I am not checking in or answering posts on daily basis, many of them I just read.
An old post (let says some weeks) can be extremely interesting. I dont care if its 2 days or 2 weeks old if it was something I did not know.
And Chris is right about this is the place of MK/DS discussions. I have always looked at AMIT like this, since we all left the MK Forum, like this was the exact place to do so.
I would welcome DSL in Denmark. I would go straight ahead to see them if I had the chance. Also to if Chris is right about their performance.
To judge by myself. And of course, we are not going to see MK anymore, so why not take the chance to listen to some DS classics.
We have discussed Terminal before, and like many of you I think it is about DSL because of the many underlying words. But that does not make me not want to go to their concerts just because Alan and Mark are maybe still a bit pissed at each other in some way.
I am guessing based on interviews. maybe the "3 Chord trick" was about MK, you never know, you can only speculate as that is what I am doing now. ;)
And by the way I still listen to the DSL album from time to time, there is some good music on there.
maybe they should play Looking For America, Bounty Hunter in some of their DSL concerts.
Do they only plays DS ?
-
I'm reading the Ed Bicknell message before I post it and there is something very interesting about "Terminal of tribute to"... nobody thought the song could be about ANY tribute band, which makes sense...
I'm posting the Bicknell message soon, promise.
That's why I asked if Mark had ever talked about this song ;)
-
did you just quote and applaud yourself? lol
Just for fun!
-
Would be the same if Guy Pratt, Snowy White, Tim Renwick and Dick Parry starts out the Pink Floyd Legacy as the most important members from PF.
Well said, Rolo
did you just quote and applaud yourself? lol
That's the second-best thing that happened on the forum after Ed Bicknell's message.
-
So...
Seeing as this site is "wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded" as per Ed, do we want to speculate as to why Ed did not want to comment on this thread and made a point of saying that he had not listened to any of Alan's music? :)
-
So...
Seeing as this site is "wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded" as per Ed, do we want to speculate as to why Ed did not want to comment on this thread and made a point of saying that he had not listened to any of Alan's music? :)
Did Ed say that about AMIT or am I misunderstanding something here ?. I did not hear that part.
-
Ed mentions it in the first paragraphs of his post from yesterday that came to us via jbaent. Not in the video interview.
LE
-
So...
Seeing as this site is "wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded" as per Ed, do we want to speculate as to why Ed did not want to comment on this thread and made a point of saying that he had not listened to any of Alan's music? :)
I wrote a usual grumpy answer at first, then re-read Ed's message and it's just so nice and warm that screw it. Let's be honest, this Alan Clark and tribute bands topic like LE wrote earlier is just so boring and lame that even Ed couldn't handle it. And we are making the same mistake as Mark did by writing a whole song about it. No, is not something to write a song about, literally.
-
So...
Seeing as this site is "wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded" as per Ed, do we want to speculate as to why Ed did not want to comment on this thread and made a point of saying that he had not listened to any of Alan's music? :)
I wrote a usual grumpy answer at first, then re-read Ed's message and it's just so nice and warm that screw it. Let's be honest, this Alan Clark and tribute bands topic like LE wrote earlier is just so boring and lame that even Ed couldn't handle it. And we are making the same mistake as Mark did by writing a whole song about it. No, is not something to write a song about, literally.
Mmm, I wasn't really focussing on the tribute band angle, Ed's opinion seems quite clear on that.
It was more the fact that Ed made a point of saying that he would not comment on this thread and also specifically said that he hadn't listened to Alan's music. So... has there been a falling out?
-
So...
Seeing as this site is "wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded" as per Ed, do we want to speculate as to why Ed did not want to comment on this thread and made a point of saying that he had not listened to any of Alan's music? :)
I wrote a usual grumpy answer at first, then re-read Ed's message and it's just so nice and warm that screw it. Let's be honest, this Alan Clark and tribute bands topic like LE wrote earlier is just so boring and lame that even Ed couldn't handle it. And we are making the same mistake as Mark did by writing a whole song about it. No, is not something to write a song about, literally.
It makes very little sense to enter a discussion to say that certain discussions are "boring". Topics of no interest may be left uncommented or unopened. Other people may be interested.
I think that the discussion on Terminal has been very interesting, and a refreshing questioning of Mark, one merited in that case as the song must be considered controversial. Also, it was very enlightening to have the rundown above of all the incarnations of The Straits, DSL, and whatever they are called. I had very little knowledge of all of that prior to that post.
-
What I meant was that the topic "tribute band" or similar comes up every few months and has a long AMIT history. In case you are aware of literally thousand posts on this subject, for some members it might indeed be boring to start it all again. Alan Clark is triggering many people only because of his pure existence it seems. :lol
I agree about the question of interest, and it obviously shows that there are constantly new members at AMIT who aren't aware of those things which of course is a very good sign.
LE
-
Ed mentions it in the first paragraphs of his post from yesterday that came to us via jbaent. Not in the video interview.
LE
Browsing through answers and cannot find exactly what Ed said.
I just did not want to take things out of context so would be interesting what he said exactly about Terminal. Terminal is f... great song. ;) regardless of who it is about, just curious.
-
Hello peterromer,
i copied the complete post from Ed over here in this thread and made the passages blue that you might be interested in. It is such a good read, I had a big laugh AGAIN while I was searching the correct lines...
LE
Hi there Jbaent, nice to meet you ,
My attention was brought to your site AMIT a while ago and I’ve followed it on and off since.
After Jack and Brendan’s passing ( REALLY REALLY sad, ) I was prompted to check out some of the threads you have going which are often unintentionally funny, wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded since understandably the writers do not have the information.
NOT a problem, that’s what being a fan is about and without fans where would we be? ( Probably hot and sticky. )
Being a fan is AN ADVENTURE !!!!
So I am sending a few comments via Chris Whitten on some of the topics that are currently “ running ” just to inform, NOT to criticise.
IF you publish please DO NOT EDIT and point out that I can't and won’t get into "correspondence” , that this is not going to be a regular thing and what follows is not an attempt to deal with every point that the fans/writers bring up, for instance I won’t address the Alan Clark thread, the On Every Street album content or the technical studio stuff which Guy has more than covered even though he can’t change a plug.
Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years.
And what follows is subjective and from memory, I shredded everything when we closed, bin bags full of letters, telexes, faxes, emails, diaries, a history of technical communication since 1977, so I may have misremembered but I'm not going to get into factual debates, if I’m wrong I’m wrong.
So use this intro if you want
Here we go……..
A SKID MARK ON THE Y FRONTS
1. The Bob Lefsetz podcast/interview.
Thanks for the positive comments, it was fun to do. Excellent interviewer…….tip - Bob has alot of interviews on his sites worth checking out if you are real music fans ( as opposed to being locked into one thing ).
As far as not talking about the transition into MK's solo band, that was guided by the interviewer and it would have taken at least half an hour to have detailed and includes too much personal stuff for your forum, sorry.
2. "Sacred Loving” .
From memory that was on the original Pathway studios demo tape they did but I must have forgotten which says something about the song/performance…….average at best which I’m guessing is why it wasn’t used, plus the fact David wrote it, if he’d written “ Day In The Life” it wouldn’t have made it ( see Muff Winwood You Tube interview in a doc on siblings in bands. Can’t recall the title …BBC 2 maybe? Long time ago. )
3. Sid McGinnis.
Let me try and put this one to bed.
He came in “last minute” after David's departure and I'm not even sure we paid him !
I can't recall what he played on, it was 44 years ago !
Ah yes, he used his guitar.
Memory….I think MK replaced some of what D had done up to then though not much because D's departure was fairly early on while they were tracking “ Romeo and Juliet ”.
I don't think Sid was credited because I wasn't there at the time and nobody told me he'd done anything ( typical ) nor do I know how he got the gig ( through Jimmy Iovine, Lourdes maybe? )
He certainly never complained re no credit.
Roy B was there from the NY rehearsals on so completely different situation and he contributed to the arrangements and general vibe. Great guy ( all of Bruce’s band are including the singer ).
There were NO disagreements about finances or that motivating anything either re Sid or anyone else.
There was no "production company", just me and the band, and 90% of the time right up to 2000 whenever I could I did things on a handshake, especially with promoters, the BEST people I dealt with by far,( pre Live Nation/AEG ).
All these “ contracts " people keep mentioning never existed ( except records/publishing ) and I took NO notice of record companies in the unlikely event they came looking for something unless it fitted with what was happening creatively eg single choices, TV's, videos, interviews etc.
In fairness neither Warners or Phonogram ever asked when they were getting a new album, too scared to !
My policy was that if we couldn’t do it our/my way, it didn't happen at all, so you can close that line down in future…...yes, like Frank I did it MY WAY ( with all my artists irrespective of how successful they were, it’s just a matter of knowing how to protect them.
Sid’s relationship with MK was always fine but brief, I'm surprised that conflict is even hinted at.
It was played “ that way ” on Letterman because those things are always lacking in rehearsal time, you just have to get on with it FAST, maybe two run throughs at most, and just about everybody with a decent front person would use the house band since it was easier and faster technically, hence MK doing that one ( EL ) on his own minus the rest of DS.
No-one back then thought of bands as “ brands ”.
No idea if Sid ever did an interview, he was/is a studio player and they generally stay under the radar.
By the way, I doubt MK “ told " Hal what to play on EL, he was perfectly capable of coming up with his own parts, which is why he got the job until he didn't have the job ( eeeew I don't want to think of Hal's parts ).
I'm baffled by the comment re Hal not being loud enough on live shows.
I often used to sit on the FOH desk ( or monitors) and never thought the sound balance was “ out " despite some of the shit holes we played, quite the opposite.
4. Budapest. We only had time to film the live MFN bits, there was NO additional filming at all and no plan to shoot anything long-form ( way too early in the tour, nobody thought to do, I certainly didn't ).
It was all done on one afternoon ( at sound check) and then at that evening's gig (hence bits of other songs..they just wanted audience shots to drop in ), which might account for the change in sweaty shirts /jacket colours. Obviously the film crew didn't have a co ordination person with them or when they edited it together !
The record co's needed FAST.
I think the single was already out in some countries so usual mad panic, no budget by the way and the girl in it was hired the morning of the shoot by the film co.
I don't recall “ many " cameras. Maybe 3? 4?
Chris Whitten’s comment on this is correct.
5. The comment re Pick and LOG is incorrect. Pick is all over that record ( and I was gutted when he left ), if you watch his interviews it’s all there eg shitty machine on Industrial D, I completely agree with him on that.
We remain great friends to this day .....he married my secretary Linda TWICE !
He did not "change style” …great drummers can play the same song as many different ways as needed and Pick is a GREAT drummer no question.
There were several reasons he left not just that old “musical differences ” thing which is always a cover for what actually happened ie personal strife!
The Oldfield book is mediocre. ..a shame because we gave him total access., but not as bad as the other book that came out ( can't recall who by), now THAT one was rubbish…the writer was obsessed by Sting ( easy I know).
I have NO memory of Ed Walsh at all. I wonder if we paid HIM!
6. I agree with the comments re Pick and Terry ( who came from a Welsh “ jam ” band called Man I used to book as an agent early 70's hence the introduction).
He was the only drummer they “ auditioned " for about an hour after I got him in.
The LH credits on Wikipedia/the sleeve are correct.
"Going Home" is a Linn, absolutely. I know because as a drummer I loathe them. I detest ALL drum machines.
MK programmed…….there wasn't anybody else to do! And that last “roll " is a rhythmic cliche but then he's not a drummer. Ha! ( But it worked ).
Steve Jordan did originally record the GH track but it was substituted because of issues to do with syncing with the film titles/credits at the end.
There are no typos.
Michael Brecker RIP is sax, Tony L and Neil J played as credited, all brilliant, so EASY.
7. Session players.
In the late 50's and up to late 60's bands RARELY performed on their own records except for the singers.
Time = money was the rule.
So session man Andy White played drums on " Love Me Do " by the Beatles because George Martin didn't feel Pete Best was good enough.
Playing in time was key ( no click tracks back then) and you did an A side and B side in 3 hours max ( otherwise they Union rate went up ).
A full album in maybe 2/3 days incl mixing.
Whatever you had by the end came out, good or not so good ( sometimes shit ) and nothing was EVER played back to the acts/singers ever, the producers ruled back then.
The main drummers were Clem Cattini ( 48 number ones, we don’t talk about Clem’s number two’s ) , Ronnie Verrell, Andy White, and Bobby Graham who did "You Really Got Me”, “ All of the Day”, and pretty much all The Kinks stuff and Ray's solo records.
He's also the drummer on most of the Dave Clark 5 records.
There were a similar number of guitarists...Big Jim Sullivan, Jimmy Page, Alan Parker, Ray Russell, a few bass players eg John Paul Jones, Herbie Flowers, Mo Foster, sax ( eg Ronnie Scott of jazz club fame is on Eleanor Rigby ), numerous backing singers ( both sexes) , percussionists ( Frank Ricotti) and so on.
All on Wikipedia under UK session musicians, a fascinating subject if you can get off MK/DS for a minute.
Same set up in NY and LA ( Wrecking Crew), Nashville , Motown, Stax.
They all got paid diddly squat sadly, about £43 an hour x 3 hours in the UK, a bit more if you "doubled" on instruments ( so every drummer had a tambourine).
Chris Whitten is entirely correct ( and about Jeff, Omar, Manu, all absolute masters of their craft ).
Terry Williams is on all that Rockpile stuff.....the king of what drummers call "the shuffle”.
For fact seekers, he’s on the intro to MFN and all of “ Walk of Life” ( which MK always saw as a non album B side until Neil D and I insisted it was a hit song) ..he’s also on the “ Twisting By The Pool " EP . “ Alchemy ” ( obviously ) , bits of ‘ Local Hero” , I can't recall what else.
8. Drinking and socialising.
This thread is complete nonsense ( but pretty funny ).
Re the Chet story, it was an “off the cuff ” remark.
All I meant was that MK had to swig the whisky MINIATURE to get the courage to take Chet's call ( although the two already knew each other) such was the esteem in which both of us held him. I was telling and mildly embellishing a story, not lying on a psychiatrist's chair.
Pavel's comment re “ Mak " is correct.
We stopped working together in 2000, so no, we don't “ socialise '’ ( I’m not even sure what that even means, fondling each other? ) and Chris Whitten is correct again, maybe he’s stalking me.
I'd say MK and I have a respectful relationship but we both moved on from each other years ago ( even the fondling stopped eventually, shit . )
Now I spend my time hanging out with drummers, going to Drum Fairs and watching Buddy Rich solos on You Tube.
Now Buddy liked puff, how did he play like that completely stoned? A true genius on his instrument.
On that last tour I was SO busy I couldn't cover as many shows as I would have liked and listening to " Calling Elvis " every night was not the best use of my time, which is why I made sure we had the best tour manager ( Tony Wigens ), Production Manager ( Alan Hornall), and a full and brilliant crew because it's a delusion to think you can do it on your own......at one point I think we had about 200+ on the road ( the stadiums ).
Again,Chris Whitten is dead right, bands living in each other’s pockets is a recipe for disaster.
In fact he's 92.6 % correct on all his quotes which is unusual for a drummer given the banging in the head and migraines they usually suffer from.
I LOVE his “ sort of ” comment re Crockford, classic.
To be clear Mark and I “ socialised " right up to when I quit ( mostly reading “ VIZ ” together…google it ), or munching burgers at Tootsies cafe in Notting Hill or meat pies at the Cock and Balls gastric pub in Olympia.
Is any of this important?
NO.
9. I will refrain from commenting on John's book at length except that the "Portland Oregon” ( BIA tour) he mentions was actually Portland MAINE 100 miles from Boston not 4000 which would have been physically impossible to do.
Apparently he did not get the book fact checked ( there are a number of errors as I'm sure the readers have discovered), so a bit disappointing given the opportunity ( except the nice things he says about me, it’s worth getting it for that alone ).
10. Hull University.
Deep Purple…...no but I did become their agent just a few years later …great band along with Black Sabbath who I also repped. I LOVED them, hilarious bunch.
We had The Who x 2 , Hendrix, The Kinks, Moody Blues x 2 , Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Pink Floyd x 2 , Free, John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers, Family x 2 ( the best of the lot) , Ten Years After, Jethro Tull, Joe Cocker, loads of jazz and folk artists etc etc etc
11. Tribute bands.
I’ll state the obvious, they exist because the “ main “ act has ceased functioning, broken up, fucked each others wives and/or died eg Beatles, Cream, ABBA, Led Zeppelin.
They are a response to public demand and pre Beatles ALL UK bands were “ cover bands " mainly playing American stuff or copying The Shadows ( the unsung heroes to all that generation especially guitarists to whom Hank Marvin was/is king ).
Mark and I played in loads of groups like that around Leeds (some of which only lasted a month ) mid Sixties. .
“Green Onions” was our starting point, then “ Bo Diddley ” ( which led to “ Calling Elvis ”.)
MK LOVES Bo Diddley, as I do ( and his son Diddley Diddley ).
Strangely we didn’t meet then although we went to the SAME music store ( Kitchens of Leeds) at the same time! Weird!
So "Tribute bands” are an extension except it’s ONE song source not many.
Trashing them is just musical snobbery to me.
I think David Gilmour had a Floyd Tribute band play at a birthday bash ( his ), probably the Australian bunch that Crockford manages ( sort of…ha!) so obviously he’s not bothered, remember it’s just pop music, nothing else.
Until the Beatles came along no one even THOUGHT of writing their own stuff, that came from “professional songwriters” or by copying the US ‘’ hits ” of the time. ( which is what The Beatles originally did eg ’Twist and Shout” by the Isley Brothers ).
When Chris White and Alan Clark formed the first one I saw them at The Royal Albert Hall and thought they were ff……..ing tremendous and why not ? There’s no rule out there that says former members can't be in their own tribute band, nobody is forcing the public to go.
The first person I ever saw do that was Bruce Welch in The Moonlight Shadows ( who were great). Now ABBA have avatars of themselves and AI is going to impact all this.
I helped that first version with a bit of advice, mainly about a legal concept called “ passing off ” which in essence means not misleading the public into thinking you’re Bo Diddley when you're not, especially if you’re dead.
Unfortunately it isn’t always possible to stop third parties eg dodgy promoters advertising as THEY think fit, and before anybody mentions “ contracts ” , most of the contracts in music are worthless, unenforceable and too expensive to sue anybody over even if it were possible ( eg in say, China, Japan, Leeds. ).
Unfortunately one person caused that lineup to splinter and no, I’m not naming , doesn’t matter…...here comes speculation.
For me the Dire Straits Experience are almost as good as the “ real thing ” and Terence Reis is something of a genius in the way he channels MK rather than copying him. The BEST of guys and players and really folks, it’s not that important in the scheme of things.
What they’ve achieved by talent and hard work is tremendous….….there you go I’ve given you a subject to debate.
Instead of bitching about them ( or any other tribute bands ) go and see them ( DSE) because you definitely won’t be seeing Dire Straits again.
I have no thoughts about DSL as a unit, haven’t seen just as I haven’t listened to anything Alan Clark has done.
Incidentally the song MK wrote on this subject could lyrically be about ANY tribute band, I’ve no idea and I’m not going to ask him ( or listen to it ) .
Anything else is just speculation based on what ?
He and I never discussed tribute bands and I can't imagine he spends any time thinking about them ( and as stated, John Illsley has played with various lineups as has Pick ).
Remember, “ Sultans of Swing ” is about a covers/tribute band who had taken THEIR name from a 1950’s American jazz band ( Panama Francis and The Savoy Sultans ).……
Chris Whitten is entirely correct in his comments about making a living playing music.
It’s really TOUGH and has become progressively tougher. If you can't play live at a profit you're stuffed, but you can always do it for fun, something that seems to be forgotten with music, so if you like the Kinks, form a tribute band and call them The Winks and get going.
And I must add here, Chris is really irritating with his endlessly correct comments but then he did play on “ The Whole of The Moon” so I'd forgive him anything…..aaaah, The Waterboys, one I tried to get but it didn’t work out…BUGGER.
By the way, Crockford did NOT manage the NHB’s and was not a “ support “ to me ( be serious, I wear a surgical truss for that ), he promoted some DS/NHB shows across the years and met MK via that, not otherwise.
12. Lastly, there’s an old thread re my “ contract ” and the split with MK.
Again, not important (certainly now) but I was not “ fired ”, if anything I “ resigned " for numerous reasons ( same comment re selling the rights I had ) and the speculation on that subject is wholly incorrect and anyway, why so strange to sell what you own ?
Bob Dylan has sold all his songs. So? They are HIS songs …ditto the many others who’ve done the same …when you get past 65 thoughts of mortality and avoiding/reducing Inheritance Tax creep in or the accountant tells you the plusses and minuses, especially if you have kids. Maybe guitar auctions come into the conversation? ( I have zero knowledge of that ).
All I will say here is that our parting was the inevitable conclusion to everything that took place from OES on and I don't mean musical direction.
As it happens I was NOT trying to keep DS going for money or any other reason, in many ways the opposite ( from 1986 to 1990 I NEVER mentioned the band to MK or vice versa. EVER )
The one thing nearly all your members consistently miss ( fair enough because there is no way they could know), is the impact people’s personal lives and inter-band relationships have on what is going on professionally, and that applies to ALL bands in my experience,
I can't think of a single exception.
That was the case in spades with OES ………
So I guess I better write a book then…….
-
So much good stuff in EB's message, you can read it many times and find something new. For instance, good to know that Oldfield's book is mediocre, as I never bothered to get and read it because I have a very good intuition. Never felt it was worth it anyway, and I feel better that I was right.
It's funny Ed wrote a huge paragraph on tribute bands, though the biggest problem with [some] of them is just the misleading naming and attempts to undervalue Mark's part in the band, THAT'S IT. As I said, if not for these things, nobody would trash them so hard and just enjoy the show. Call it The Australian Dire Straits Show and never say things like Mark wasn't a big part of Dire Straits and bingo — nobody hates you. I still believe they started this "war" and lost it.
-
In times when there was no Internet, Michael Oldfield's book was the Dire Straits bible for me. After many years, I understand that not everything is perfect, but the sentiment will always remain.
-
In times when there was no Internet, Michael Oldfield's book was the Dire Straits bible for me. After many years, I understand that not everything is perfect, but the sentiment will always remain.
+1000 :thumbsup
Oldfield was a journalism-student with Mark, and the book was approved by the band
so, even if it isn't perfect, I still think that it's the best reliable book about DS
-
In times when there was no Internet, Michael Oldfield's book was the Dire Straits bible for me. After many years, I understand that not everything is perfect, but the sentiment will always remain.
+1000 :thumbsup
Oldfield was a journalism-student with Mark, and the book was approved by the band
so, even if it isn't perfect, I still think that it's the best reliable book about DS
Exactly! :thumbsup
-
In times when there was no Internet, Michael Oldfield's book was the Dire Straits bible for me. After many years, I understand that not everything is perfect, but the sentiment will always remain.
+1000 :thumbsup
Oldfield was a journalism-student with Mark, and the book was approved by the band
so, even if it isn't perfect, I still think that it's the best reliable book about DS
Better than the book written by
Michael Oldfield's, only if Ed Bicknell writes one, would be a gift analogous to a new Dire Straits album. Who knows, maybe this miracle will happen, we recently saw a miracle happen with the launch of Box Live 78/92, hopefully luck continues to be in our favor, as it has been lately, I can't get enough of reading the two messages that Ed kindly wrote to the forum.
-
In times when there was no Internet, Michael Oldfield's book was the Dire Straits bible for me. After many years, I understand that not everything is perfect, but the sentiment will always remain.
+1000 :thumbsup
Oldfield was a journalism-student with Mark, and the book was approved by the band
so, even if it isn't perfect, I still think that it's the best reliable book about DS
Better than the book written by
Michael Oldfield's, only if Ed Bicknell writes one, would be a gift analogous to a new Dire Straits album. Who knows, maybe this miracle will happen, we recently saw a miracle happen with the launch of Box Live 78/92, hopefully luck continues to be in our favor, as it has been lately, I can't get enough of reading the two messages that Ed kindly wrote to the forum.
I can't say that I'm particularly happy about not reading this book, maybe I should, I just would want to know more about why this book is mediocre, and how it can be mediocre considering, as Ed said, they gave him "total access". I can expect a mediocre book coming from somebody who doesn't know the difference between Mark Knopfler and David Knopfler. But total access? Those who read the book, what's so mediocre about it?
I guess in the same way you can call John's book mediocre. Can't say I'm deeply impressed by it, but it's called "MY LIFE in Dire Straits", and for a title like this it does a perfect job. Mike's book is called simply "Dire Straits". So it has to be great, right?
-
The worst thing is that the book ends in 1984. :(
-
I took Ed’s criticism as referring to Myles Palmer’s unauthorised biography of MK which Ed has previously slated as full of inaccuracies.
-
Sounds like Alan had some "issues" during the OES tour at the very least and might well have been the person that caused the first lineup of DSL / the Straits to split.
I have a lot of time for Alans contributions musically, they do add the next dynamic tonDS material. However he doesn't really look like he was enjoying the OES tour. From reading his own website, feels like he would have rather been on tour with Clapton at the time. You only have to look at some of the photos on CWs Instagram feed to see this isn't a happy guy in 1992, and whatever comes with that to keep going.
Take a google image search of Alan Clark Dire Straits and draw your own conclusions.
-
Yes.
The narrative for 30 years has been that MK was miserable during OES and Straits split as a result.
Now the (subtle) message from Chris and Ed seems to be that Alan was (also) difficult then and appears to have been a factor.
Maybe the Clapton thing, maybe also that Guy had taken his place as MK’s right hand man.
I seem to remember Chris saying there were cliques, one with Alan, although that in itself isn’t surprising with such a ridiculously large band.
-
>That said, the cover bands get the last laugh. Who's on tour, and who's retired from playing live?
Not sure you have nailed the last laugh definition.
They are only playing live because of MK songs.
People are only interested in them because of MK songs.
They have to pay MK every time they perform.
Even when MK dies they will still have to pay.
I laugh whenever I listen to TOTT because I don't take it seriously.
From my understanding after googling the topic, it's the venue that pays the royalties - not the cover bands.
Also, you missed the point. If someone makes a song mocking cover bands, and the artists is unwilling or unable to perform live and the cover band(s) continue on, that IS the last laugh. Literally. They play, the original composer don't.
-
In times when there was no Internet, Michael Oldfield's book was the Dire Straits bible for me. After many years, I understand that not everything is perfect, but the sentiment will always remain.
+1000 :thumbsup
Oldfield was a journalism-student with Mark, and the book was approved by the band
so, even if it isn't perfect, I still think that it's the best reliable book about DS
Better than the book written by
Michael Oldfield's, only if Ed Bicknell writes one, would be a gift analogous to a new Dire Straits album. Who knows, maybe this miracle will happen, we recently saw a miracle happen with the launch of Box Live 78/92, hopefully luck continues to be in our favor, as it has been lately, I can't get enough of reading the two messages that Ed kindly wrote to the forum.
I can't say that I'm particularly happy about not reading this book, maybe I should, I just would want to know more about why this book is mediocre, and how it can be mediocre considering, as Ed said, they gave him "total access". I can expect a mediocre book coming from somebody who doesn't know the difference between Mark Knopfler and David Knopfler. But total access? Those who read the book, what's so mediocre about it?
I guess in the same way you can call John's book mediocre. Can't say I'm deeply impressed by it, but it's called "MY LIFE in Dire Straits", and for a title like this it does a perfect job. Mike's book is called simply "Dire Straits". So it has to be great, right?
I would say that there is a very subjective character here, it may be mediocre for some, the circumstance that Ed finds himself in may actually be mediocre for him, however, in the dimension of a mere Dire Straits fan like me and especially in the 80s, when this book was released, it was wonderful, it starts by narrating the experience of a show at the beginning of the LOG tour, one of the nights in December 1982 at Wembley Arena, I still remember the feeling of being transported in time and space to the event, this was pure gold, as well as other pleasant surprises. Just because my father said that the film currently showing is bad doesn't mean I'm not going to watch it, give it a chance and read this book, at worst you'll get rid of that doubt, for me it's still a good book, excellent photos, it could be better, yes, of course, not everything is perfect, but a book written by Ed Bicknell would be the closest to perfection, for sure!
-
>That said, the cover bands get the last laugh. Who's on tour, and who's retired from playing live?
Not sure you have nailed the last laugh definition.
They are only playing live because of MK songs.
People are only interested in them because of MK songs.
They have to pay MK every time they perform.
Even when MK dies they will still have to pay.
I laugh whenever I listen to TOTT because I don't take it seriously.
From my understanding after googling the topic, it's the venue that pays the royalties - not the cover bands.
Also, you missed the point. If someone makes a song mocking cover bands, and the artists is unwilling or unable to perform live and the cover band(s) continue on, that IS the last laugh. Literally. They play, the original composer don't.
But that's the circle of life, eh? When everybody from cover bands stops playing/dies, their descendants will play the music and have the last laugh themselves. By their time it will be classical music. Most importantly, I believe it WILL be played as the music is just so great and in high demand anyway.
And don't forget an original song mocking a cover band is still an original song while they are stuck dancing to somebody else's tune. That's WHY you need to be extra cautious and extra considerate and polite with the source material. As far as I'm concerned, they acted as if it's Dire Straits 2.0, so they got a bite from MK.
-
Yes.
The narrative for 30 years has been that MK was miserable during OES and Straits split as a result.
Now the (subtle) message from Chris and Ed seems to be that Alan was (also) difficult then and appears to have been a factor.
Maybe the Clapton thing, maybe also that Guy had taken his place as MK’s right hand man.
I seem to remember Chris saying there were cliques, one with Alan, although that in itself isn’t surprising with such a ridiculously large band.
Phil in interviews quite openly hinted he'd rather go on the road with Eric instead of playing with DS. It's quite astonishing that both of them seem to be unhappiest about the experience, and have become a driving force behind this "Dire Straits Revival" thing they created. Seriously, I remember watching the very early interviews with them and from there I've got quotes like Mark wasn't a big part of Dire Straits after all, etc.
One simply can't pretend there's nothing wrong with these guys, when it's a big, big, big soup of dissatisfaction, anger maybe, maybe past resentments, and yes, combined with real talent, real musicianship and other good things. Can't argue with that. And seems strange to me to assume Mark suddenly wrote a song about "any" tribute band, having no problem with them for 30 years at this point.
-
Yes.
The narrative for 30 years has been that MK was miserable during OES and Straits split as a result.
Now the (subtle) message from Chris and Ed seems to be that Alan was (also) difficult then and appears to have been a factor.
Maybe the Clapton thing, maybe also that Guy had taken his place as MK’s right hand man.
I seem to remember Chris saying there were cliques, one with Alan, although that in itself isn’t surprising with such a ridiculously large band.
Phil in interviews quite openly hinted he'd rather go on the road with Eric instead of playing with DS. It's quite astonishing that both of them seem to be unhappiest about the experience, and have become a driving force behind this "Dire Straits Revival" thing they created. Seriously, I remember watching the very early interviews with them and from there I've got quotes like Mark wasn't a big part of Dire Straits after all, etc.
One simply can't pretend there's nothing wrong with these guys, when it's a big, big, big soup of dissatisfaction, anger maybe, maybe past resentments, and yes, combined with real talent, real musicianship and other good things. Can't argue with that. And seems strange to me to assume Mark suddenly wrote a song about "any" tribute band, having no problem with them for 30 years at this point.
I have a deja vou.
-
Yes.
The narrative for 30 years has been that MK was miserable during OES and Straits split as a result.
Now the (subtle) message from Chris and Ed seems to be that Alan was (also) difficult then and appears to have been a factor.
Maybe the Clapton thing, maybe also that Guy had taken his place as MK’s right hand man.
I seem to remember Chris saying there were cliques, one with Alan, although that in itself isn’t surprising with such a ridiculously large band.
Phil in interviews quite openly hinted he'd rather go on the road with Eric instead of playing with DS. It's quite astonishing that both of them seem to be unhappiest about the experience, and have become a driving force behind this "Dire Straits Revival" thing they created. Seriously, I remember watching the very early interviews with them and from there I've got quotes like Mark wasn't a big part of Dire Straits after all, etc.
One simply can't pretend there's nothing wrong with these guys, when it's a big, big, big soup of dissatisfaction, anger maybe, maybe past resentments, and yes, combined with real talent, real musicianship and other good things. Can't argue with that. And seems strange to me to assume Mark suddenly wrote a song about "any" tribute band, having no problem with them for 30 years at this point.
I have a deja vou.
I perfectly agree with you jbaent. But it's not me who brings these topics time and time again, with the same thoughts again and again. People don't bother to read/engage in discussion, and then you ask them to change their minds and come to conclusions. Not gonna happen. Alan is a saint and did absolutely nothing wrong.
Nobody is a saint, NOBODY, and everybody does wrong sometimes.
That's the thing, as MK says, everybody pays to play.
-
Yes.
The narrative for 30 years has been that MK was miserable during OES and Straits split as a result.
Now the (subtle) message from Chris and Ed seems to be that Alan was (also) difficult then and appears to have been a factor.
Maybe the Clapton thing, maybe also that Guy had taken his place as MK’s right hand man.
I seem to remember Chris saying there were cliques, one with Alan, although that in itself isn’t surprising with such a ridiculously large band.
Phil in interviews quite openly hinted he'd rather go on the road with Eric instead of playing with DS. It's quite astonishing that both of them seem to be unhappiest about the experience, and have become a driving force behind this "Dire Straits Revival" thing they created. Seriously, I remember watching the very early interviews with them and from there I've got quotes like Mark wasn't a big part of Dire Straits after all, etc.
One simply can't pretend there's nothing wrong with these guys, when it's a big, big, big soup of dissatisfaction, anger maybe, maybe past resentments, and yes, combined with real talent, real musicianship and other good things. Can't argue with that. And seems strange to me to assume Mark suddenly wrote a song about "any" tribute band, having no problem with them for 30 years at this point.
I have a deja vou.
I perfectly agree with you jbaent. But it's not me who brings these topics time and time again, with the same thoughts again and again. People don't bother to read/engage in discussion, and then you ask them to change their minds and come to conclusions. Not gonna happen. Alan is a saint and did absolutely nothing wrong.
Nobody is a saint, NOBODY, and everybody does wrong sometimes.
That's the thing, as MK says, everybody pays to play.
I realised I was too stupid in my reply and deleted the message, sorry. I'm aware of this. This is an example of a very exhausting and déjà vu topic indeed, like some other topics and some of the recurring duels on this forum, where people just obviously can't get along and will argue till the cows come home. But what you can do about it anyway? That's life ;D
-
So...
Seeing as this site is "wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded" as per Ed, do we want to speculate as to why Ed did not want to comment on this thread and made a point of saying that he had not listened to any of Alan's music? :)
I wrote a usual grumpy answer at first, then re-read Ed's message and it's just so nice and warm that screw it. Let's be honest, this Alan Clark and tribute bands topic like LE wrote earlier is just so boring and lame that even Ed couldn't handle it. And we are making the same mistake as Mark did by writing a whole song about it. No, is not something to write a song about, literally.
Mmm, I wasn't really focussing on the tribute band angle, Ed's opinion seems quite clear on that.
It was more the fact that Ed made a point of saying that he would not comment on this thread and also specifically said that he hadn't listened to Alan's music. So... has there been a falling out?
my thoughts exactly
actually feels like you russia style hacked my thoughts Dusty! never an original thought, somewhat feels like that tribute band song thingy....SAD
-
So...
Seeing as this site is "wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded" as per Ed, do we want to speculate as to why Ed did not want to comment on this thread and made a point of saying that he had not listened to any of Alan's music? :)
I wrote a usual grumpy answer at first, then re-read Ed's message and it's just so nice and warm that screw it. Let's be honest, this Alan Clark and tribute bands topic like LE wrote earlier is just so boring and lame that even Ed couldn't handle it. And we are making the same mistake as Mark did by writing a whole song about it. No, is not something to write a song about, literally.
Mmm, I wasn't really focussing on the tribute band angle, Ed's opinion seems quite clear on that.
It was more the fact that Ed made a point of saying that he would not comment on this thread and also specifically said that he hadn't listened to Alan's music. So... has there been a falling out?
my thoughts exactly
actually feels like you russia style hacked my thoughts Dusty! never an original thought, somewhat feels like that tribute band song thingy....SAD
Dusty Springfield writes really good posts, not bad for somebody who's already 25 years not with us anymore... :lol
In this case, I was completely wrong and can take 100% responsibility.
-
So...
Seeing as this site is "wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded" as per Ed, do we want to speculate as to why Ed did not want to comment on this thread and made a point of saying that he had not listened to any of Alan's music? :)
I wrote a usual grumpy answer at first, then re-read Ed's message and it's just so nice and warm that screw it. Let's be honest, this Alan Clark and tribute bands topic like LE wrote earlier is just so boring and lame that even Ed couldn't handle it. And we are making the same mistake as Mark did by writing a whole song about it. No, is not something to write a song about, literally.
Mmm, I wasn't really focussing on the tribute band angle, Ed's opinion seems quite clear on that.
It was more the fact that Ed made a point of saying that he would not comment on this thread and also specifically said that he hadn't listened to Alan's music. So... has there been a falling out?
my thoughts exactly
actually feels like you russia style hacked my thoughts Dusty! never an original thought, somewhat feels like that tribute band song thingy....SAD
Dusty Springfield writes really good posts, not bad for somebody who's already 25 years not with us anymore... :lol
In this case, I was completely wrong and can take 100% responsibility.
sure as hell writes like someone who has left us 25yrs ago. jeez
-
Lol
I generally like that these threads go wherever they go but I'm starting to get frustrated that this particular one is still turning into a tribute band good/bad one when we have (in my eyes) a MUCH more interesting topic to discuss:
Did Alan Clark destroy Dire Straits?! :o :o :o
-
Lol
I generally like that these threads go wherever they go but I'm starting to get frustrated that this particular one is still turning into a tribute band good/bad one when we have (in my eyes) a MUCH more interesting topic to discuss:
Did Alan Clark destroy Dire Straits?! :o :o :o
Haha! I think it's as much as the Yoko Ono destroying The Beatles controversy. I mean it probably has something to do with it, like 1%, but there were much bigger problems at stake than an unhappy keyboard player or a Beatle bringing his wife into the studio.
And by the way, it's not the first time Alan Clark's topic gets redirected into tribute bands' topic, I remember it happening at least 1 or 2 times before, it's inevitable really. Thanks Mark for writing this damn song, and thanks Alan for being so persistent in his goal of reviving DS, I guess.
-
Hello peterromer,
i copied the complete post from Ed over here in this thread and made the passages blue that you might be interested in. It is such a good read, I had a big laugh AGAIN while I was searching the correct lines...
LE
[/i]
THANKS LE :thumbsup, much appreciated. Very interesting.
-
Lol
I generally like that these threads go wherever they go but I'm starting to get frustrated that this particular one is still turning into a tribute band good/bad one when we have (in my eyes) a MUCH more interesting topic to discuss:
Did Alan Clark destroy Dire Straits?! :o :o :o
I dont think so. With all said here with that OES era, it was Marks decision. If MK wanted to continue with DS he could have done so and replaced Alan.
There was probably just so much going on in different aspects, that combined he felt it was time to end it.
Internal problems, huge venues and probably felt like going solo was the right time.
John said in a more recent interview that the two of them sat in a pub somewhere before the OES album, and MK asked John if he would be interested in a new DS album because he had some new songs. John litererally said "Yes of course" but John was baffled as he thought already back then that DS was kind of history.
So the two of them might have had some talks / discussions going on, already after BIA.
-
Lol
I generally like that these threads go wherever they go but I'm starting to get frustrated that this particular one is still turning into a tribute band good/bad one when we have (in my eyes) a MUCH more interesting topic to discuss:
Did Alan Clark destroy Dire Straits?! :o :o :o
No
DS is MK's child, and he was already fed up with it before OES, I read many times that everyone was surprised when MK suggested to do another record and another tour, and I guess he was already regreting it even before the tour started.
I also read, and also could be not true, that the last DS record and tour were made to ensure the rest of members (John, Alan and Guy) had a last big income from the band before it ended, and that's why that record was credited in production to the four of them, but in the end, the two enterprises managing everything, DS Overseas and DS Limited (I think those were the names) were credited to MK, John and Ed.
-
Lol
I generally like that these threads go wherever they go but I'm starting to get frustrated that this particular one is still turning into a tribute band good/bad one when we have (in my eyes) a MUCH more interesting topic to discuss:
Did Alan Clark destroy Dire Straits?! :o :o :o
No
DS is MK's child, and he was already fed up with it before OES, I read many times that everyone was surprised when MK suggested to do another record and another tour, and I guess he was already regreting it even before the tour started.
I also read, and also could be not true, that the last DS record and tour were made to ensure the rest of members (John, Alan and Guy) had a last big income from the band before it ended, and that's why that record was credited in production to the four of them, but in the end, the two enterprises managing everything, DS Overseas and DS Limited (I think those were the names) were credited to MK, John and Ed.
He has more or less confirmed in the swedish interview from 2008 that he did the OES tour to escape his failing marriage. He probably had no intention of going on such a long tour, but found it was the perfect way to get away from his personal troubles. And I think he also hinted that Lourdes was unhappy with him being away for so long on tour.
-
Lol
I generally like that these threads go wherever they go but I'm starting to get frustrated that this particular one is still turning into a tribute band good/bad one when we have (in my eyes) a MUCH more interesting topic to discuss:
Did Alan Clark destroy Dire Straits?! :o :o :o
No
DS is MK's child, and he was already fed up with it before OES, I read many times that everyone was surprised when MK suggested to do another record and another tour, and I guess he was already regreting it even before the tour started.
I also read, and also could be not true, that the last DS record and tour were made to ensure the rest of members (John, Alan and Guy) had a last big income from the band before it ended, and that's why that record was credited in production to the four of them, but in the end, the two enterprises managing everything, DS Overseas and DS Limited (I think those were the names) were credited to MK, John and Ed.
Yes, but why was MK fed up? Because DS wouldn’t allow him to continue his musical career in the direction he wanted to go. What hindered him? I guess it was due to different band members wanting things that wasn’t compatible with MK’s musical visjons.
-
The stories of bands falling apart are so alike sometimes, likewise with falling marriages I guess. I always compare DS to The Police (they emerged from the same region at the same time and both had prominent singer-songwriters occupying 80% of the exposure). For how different they were as a band, having practically no lineup changes compared to constantly changing DS, but severely battling over mutually written music material, their fate is all the same.
The lead man wants to do it on his own and burn all the bridges. I think compared to Sting, Mark did it better and dealt with his mates better, however, Sting learned earlier he should go his own way, and DS shutting down earlier would benefit its legacy (in my humble opinion). Also, like Sting, Mark resurrected DS for a tour or an album and in my view too early. And doing it again would be a farce as in the famous quote, "History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce".
-
Too early? It's been 6 long years. It was the last moment.
I know the comparison will be weak, but I often look at Robert Plant and Mark Knopfler. They have something in common:)
-
Too early? It's been 6 long years. It was the last moment.
And so what? The Police were resurrected after more than 20 years. And in my opinion, that was a tragedy as well. It was famously one of the most successful and highest-grossing tours of all time, but Stewart Copeland said he and Sting counted days and seconds until it was all over and they wouldn't need to fight and play together ever again. At least they remain good friends and enjoy the highest-grossing tour for such a band, quite an achievement. Mark has different achievements.
-
This is not a happy comparison. Dire Straits released a new album, so there was a tour. The Police didn't have a new album.
-
This is not a happy comparison. Dire Straits released a new album, so there was a tour. The Police didn't have a new album.
Mark always had new material for the band or a solo album (which is the same thing in Mark's case I think). The Police had no any new material to record, nor a desire to write it. Not a good idea to compare such things in general, I just make observations. But this is the kind of fantasy I'd like to live in. BiA is the swan song of DS. OES is Mark's first solo album, instead of touring he's chilling and sorting out his personal life problems, or doing a little European tour. Then, in 2002, after 3 successful solo albums in a row, a small charity DS reunion tour, a truckload of money, and happy colleagues. Ah, dreams, dreams.
-
This is not a happy comparison. Dire Straits released a new album, so there was a tour. The Police didn't have a new album.
Mark always had new material for the band or a solo album (which is the same thing in Mark's case I think). The Police had no any new material to record, nor a desire to write it. Not a good idea to compare such things in general, I just make observations. But this is the kind of fantasy I'd like to live in. BiA is the swan song of DS. OES is Mark's first solo album, instead of touring he's chilling and sorting out his personal life problems, or doing a little European tour. Then, in 2002, after 3 successful solo albums in a row, a small charity DS reunion tour, a truckload of money, and happy colleagues. Ah, dreams, dreams.
I understand. But for me, the real history of DS/MK does not need fantasy because it is fascinating :)
-
Lol
I generally like that these threads go wherever they go but I'm starting to get frustrated that this particular one is still turning into a tribute band good/bad one when we have (in my eyes) a MUCH more interesting topic to discuss:
Did Alan Clark destroy Dire Straits?! :o :o :o
No
DS is MK's child, and he was already fed up with it before OES, I read many times that everyone was surprised when MK suggested to do another record and another tour, and I guess he was already regreting it even before the tour started.
I also read, and also could be not true, that the last DS record and tour were made to ensure the rest of members (John, Alan and Guy) had a last big income from the band before it ended, and that's why that record was credited in production to the four of them, but in the end, the two enterprises managing everything, DS Overseas and DS Limited (I think those were the names) were credited to MK, John and Ed.
Yes, but why was MK fed up? Because DS wouldn’t allow him to continue his musical career in the direction he wanted to go. What hindered him? I guess it was due to different band members wanting things that wasn’t compatible with MK’s musical visjons.
If anyone didn't share his vision in the band, the solution was easy, fire him. He did with some of the previous members.
He went solo, as he says, because the band got to big to cope with it, not in musical but logistical terms.
Alan himself said that this Nashville sound seemed inappropriate way to go, but they went that way because MK wanted it. Of course if you go solo you don't have to discuss with anyone about what kind of music you want to do but I don't think the rest of the band, even a creative force like Alan, hesitated to discuss MK further than giving an opinion. I can be wrong of course, but I don't think that happened really.
-
>That said, the cover bands get the last laugh. Who's on tour, and who's retired from playing live?
Not sure you have nailed the last laugh definition.
They are only playing live because of MK songs.
People are only interested in them because of MK songs.
They have to pay MK every time they perform.
Even when MK dies they will still have to pay.
I laugh whenever I listen to TOTT because I don't take it seriously.
From my understanding after googling the topic, it's the venue that pays the royalties - not the cover bands.
Also, you missed the point. If someone makes a song mocking cover bands, and the artists is unwilling or unable to perform live and the cover band(s) continue on, that IS the last laugh. Literally. They play, the original composer don't.
But that's the circle of life, eh? When everybody from cover bands stops playing/dies, their descendants will play the music and have the last laugh themselves. By their time it will be classical music. Most importantly, I believe it WILL be played as the music is just so great and in high demand anyway.
And don't forget an original song mocking a cover band is still an original song while they are stuck dancing to somebody else's tune. That's WHY you need to be extra cautious and extra considerate and polite with the source material. As far as I'm concerned, they acted as if it's Dire Straits 2.0, so they got a bite from MK.
Even MK has acted like that. So, he can bite his own tail if he wants to :) ("the voice and guitar from Dire Straits")
-
>That said, the cover bands get the last laugh. Who's on tour, and who's retired from playing live?
Not sure you have nailed the last laugh definition.
They are only playing live because of MK songs.
People are only interested in them because of MK songs.
They have to pay MK every time they perform.
Even when MK dies they will still have to pay.
I laugh whenever I listen to TOTT because I don't take it seriously.
From my understanding after googling the topic, it's the venue that pays the royalties - not the cover bands.
Also, you missed the point. If someone makes a song mocking cover bands, and the artists is unwilling or unable to perform live and the cover band(s) continue on, that IS the last laugh. Literally. They play, the original composer don't.
But that's the circle of life, eh? When everybody from cover bands stops playing/dies, their descendants will play the music and have the last laugh themselves. By their time it will be classical music. Most importantly, I believe it WILL be played as the music is just so great and in high demand anyway.
And don't forget an original song mocking a cover band is still an original song while they are stuck dancing to somebody else's tune. That's WHY you need to be extra cautious and extra considerate and polite with the source material. As far as I'm concerned, they acted as if it's Dire Straits 2.0, so they got a bite from MK.
Even MK has acted like that. So, he can bite his own tail if he wants to :) ("the voice and guitar from Dire Straits")
That's very funny until you realise that Mark has more than enough rights to say he's the voice and guitar from Dire Straits, as he IS the voice and guitar from Dire Straits. And songwriter, and producer, and arranger, and talking head in interviews, and talent manager, and... You get the point :D
-
That was just a marketing thing anyway, although we can assume MK didn’t care enough about it to stop it.
-
That was just a marketing thing anyway, although we can assume MK didn’t care enough about it to stop it.
We know that he hated it - someone here has described Mark peeling off the sticker of, I think, RPD, when signing it for a fan.
-
Here is a link to the image I was referring to in my post yesterday:.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C2MVucbMs3B/?igsh=MWU2NGI4d2t6ejM3aw==
A picture tells a thousand words
-
That was just a marketing thing anyway, although we can assume MK didn’t care enough about it to stop it.
We know that he hated it - someone here has described Mark peeling off the sticker of, I think, RPD, when signing it for a fan.
If he hated it he could have stopped it.
-
That was just a marketing thing anyway, although we can assume MK didn’t care enough about it to stop it.
We know that he hated it - someone here has described Mark peeling off the sticker of, I think, RPD, when signing it for a fan.
If he hated it he could have stopped it.
This is a classic psychological phenomenon when an artist hates the thing that made him famous, not because it made him famous but because he wants people to recognize his other work or associate him with other works. Actor Christopher Plummer hated the movie The Sound Of Music, even though it made him famous and freed him for probably the rest of his long life, which was pretty much 55 years.
In the recent video where Mark asked a kid, what he played on his Les Paul, and the kid said he played Dire Straits stuff, I'm not 100% sure that Mark, who has led a solo career for 31 years now was 100% happy about it and said "nobody's perfect" 100% as a joke. A true artist, like a piper, is a piper to the end and he cares about his stuff, and it's perfectly understandable, no problem here at all.
As for the RPD sticker, the answer is simple too — it helped with the sales. If it didn't, they wouldn't put it in the first place, and since it's long gone now, Mark won.
-
And I can already foresee I will be bombarded with comments that I dared to doubt Mark's honesty when answering a kid in a cancer trust hospital. Come on, people, it's just an example. Try to put yourself in Mark's shoes and imagine how YOU would feel to see Dire Straits stickers on your solo records and people playing Sultans Of Swing to you (or asking about Trapp Family if you're Plummer).
-
That was just a marketing thing anyway, although we can assume MK didn’t care enough about it to stop it.
We know that he hated it - someone here has described Mark peeling off the sticker of, I think, RPD, when signing it for a fan.
If he hated it he could have stopped it.
Maybe. My impression is that he did not know about it and was surprised to see it on records in the stores.
-
>That said, the cover bands get the last laugh. Who's on tour, and who's retired from playing live?
Not sure you have nailed the last laugh definition.
They are only playing live because of MK songs.
People are only interested in them because of MK songs.
They have to pay MK every time they perform.
Even when MK dies they will still have to pay.
I laugh whenever I listen to TOTT because I don't take it seriously.
From my understanding after googling the topic, it's the venue that pays the royalties - not the cover bands.
Also, you missed the point. If someone makes a song mocking cover bands, and the artists is unwilling or unable to perform live and the cover band(s) continue on, that IS the last laugh. Literally. They play, the original composer don't.
But that's the circle of life, eh? When everybody from cover bands stops playing/dies, their descendants will play the music and have the last laugh themselves. By their time it will be classical music. Most importantly, I believe it WILL be played as the music is just so great and in high demand anyway.
And don't forget an original song mocking a cover band is still an original song while they are stuck dancing to somebody else's tune. That's WHY you need to be extra cautious and extra considerate and polite with the source material. As far as I'm concerned, they acted as if it's Dire Straits 2.0, so they got a bite from MK.
Even MK has acted like that. So, he can bite his own tail if he wants to :) ("the voice and guitar from Dire Straits")
That's very funny until you realise that Mark has more than enough rights to say he's the voice and guitar from Dire Straits, as he IS the voice and guitar from Dire Straits. And songwriter, and producer, and arranger, and talking head in interviews, and talent manager, and... You get the point :D
Sure, but if he can - surely other can, too. And if it wasn't his choice, then I think we can assume that the branding of DSL/DSE also isn't decided by ex-DS-members alone. There's nothing wrong with important band members profiling themselves as such.
-
That was just a marketing thing anyway, although we can assume MK didn’t care enough about it to stop it.
We know that he hated it - someone here has described Mark peeling off the sticker of, I think, RPD, when signing it for a fan.
If he hated it he could have stopped it.
This is a classic psychological phenomenon when an artist hates the thing that made him famous, not because it made him famous but because he wants people to recognize his other work or associate him with other works. Actor Christopher Plummer hated the movie The Sound Of Music, even though it made him famous and freed him for probably the rest of his long life, which was pretty much 55 years.
In the recent video where Mark asked a kid, what he played on his Les Paul, and the kid said he played Dire Straits stuff, I'm not 100% sure that Mark, who has led a solo career for 31 years now was 100% happy about it and said "nobody's perfect" 100% as a joke. A true artist, like a piper, is a piper to the end and he cares about his stuff, and it's perfectly understandable, no problem here at all.
As for the RPD sticker, the answer is simple too — it helped with the sales. If it didn't, they wouldn't put it in the first place, and since it's long gone now, Mark won.
This is true in general - people very often dislike being "one trick ponies" to everyone else. Like, the best compliment a pretty woman can get is that she's intelligent (or something else, like that), as "you look beautiful" is something she would have heard a billion times before and being a "prettyface" isn't all that exciting anymore. Like, I was praised for my math skills in school (among other things), and as an adult I want to show that I can do more than that. A compliment has it's most value when the receiver isn't aware of his og hers skill (or whatever) beforehand. I think praising John's bass playing has more value than praising Mark for his guitar abilities, for instance, if John is being judged as someone "less talented" than the rest (and he felt that way - which I don't know if he did).
-
I don't have any skills.
Praise is overrated. :)
-
What a strange bunch of people a lot of you are.
Naive to think Mark Knopfler is this wonderful generous, friendly human being.
I absolutely love Mark's guitar playing especially on the Love Over Gold Album. Fantastic. When I was 6 I would often play air guitar to that album, along with Making Movies and even the slightly cheesy Brothers In Arms. In terms of my favourite album you can't beat the production of making movies. Pick's drums sound exceptional.
But some of you are almost brainwashed.
Even when Chris Whitten gives quality answers, some of you have the audacity to actually question him. :smack
Knopfler isn't this warm friendly person you all make out he is. Of course i'm sure it's not a thing he does on purpose, he is just like that. People
are different. Some people are warm, others aren't.
What I find fascinating, and maybe it's because you are all more Knopfler solo fans than Dire straits is...
- What happened to Hal Lindes? Why did he leave the band? Was he sacked? I think it wasn't straightforward at all... I think there's a dark story behind it...
- Poor Jack Sonni, the chap is no longer with us but hardly anyone is interested. Deary deary me...
- Why did Knopfler fail to contact Sonni or Terry Williams when the band reunited? I'm sure a fanboy will reply "well it's a new era... mark must have felt he needed a fresh start but with his sidekick Guy" HAHAHA. Well it would have been nice to inform Jack / Terry etc.
- I could go on and on...
Best wishes everyone.
-
I read all your posts and you are right: People are ..."different". You are the best example for it.
LE
-
I read all your posts and you are right: People are ..."different". You are the best example for it.
LE
LE, you're such a diplomat ;D I'd say it's another example of a harshly written post that can trigger a lot of people and could've been worded better. I'd suggest going back to Ed Bicknell's brilliant messages provided by Chris Whitten, this is an example of how to conduct the discussion (which he isn't even participating in person). He can get away with things like saying Neil Dorfsman is 100% deaf, call dustyvalentino Dusty Springfield and everybody will laugh and ask for more. No wonder he's a great artist manager!
I remember reading a book of old Arabian stories and there was a whole story on how the same things can be expressed in a lot of different ways. Like, instead of saying "All in your family has died" you can say "You outlived all your relatives". The same message is spelt differently, with different psychological impacts.
I can write a detailed answer to every one of mariosboss's statements, though just like arguing with Chris, it's missing a point a little bit. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to teach anyone how to live, I just analyse each message and reaction independently. And yes, a lot of times, I feel like demonizing Mark goes over the top. The guy had his reasons for his decisions, we just don't know them. And judging by where he's now, turns out Mark had a lot of right decisions to make, and right doesn't mean good.
Everybody on this forum loves Jack Sonni and Terry Williams and discussed their legacy a lot of times, they are examples of people who generate the least amount of controversy. Matter of fact, Jack even wrote things to this forum and was funny and open just like he was on stage. And everybody loves Chris Whitten, he's just tough to argue with and a bit harsh too sometimes, which can trigger people. But there are always more layers to the story. ALWAYS. Yes, even with Alan Clark. And generally speaking, humour saves the day, don't take this forum too seriously.
-
From my understanding, Jack was already retired when the OES tour happened, so why ask him at all?
-
The Hal Lindes situation is dealt with in John Illsley's book. In short, there was disagreement between Mark and John, and Hal, over how to deal with Hal's girlfriend / relationship in Montserrat. Jack was the replacement. Buy John's book!
-
The Hal Lindes situation is dealt with in John Illsley's book. In short, there was disagreement between Mark and John, and Hal, over how to deal with Hal's girlfriend / relationship in Montserrat. Jack was the replacement. Buy John's book!
Terry Williams was interviewed a few years ago on a podcast, and when the Hal Lindes situation came up he became quite emotional... the interview was then edited / cut suddenly just after Terry said something along the lines of "ohh i'm not sure If I should continue..."
It was obviously quite a serious situation for it to have been left out of the podcast. Lindes was a superb addition to the band. But suddenly he was banished.
Since then though Hal has acted impecably. Really positive to his previous band and obviously forging a career in film music etc.
-
I read all your posts and you are right: People are ..."different". You are the best example for it.
LE
LE, you're such a diplomat ;D I'd say it's another example of a harshly written post that can trigger a lot of people and could've been worded better. I'd suggest going back to Ed Bicknell's brilliant messages provided by Chris Whitten, this is an example of how to conduct the discussion (which he isn't even participating in person). He can get away with things like saying Neil Dorfsman is 100% deaf, call dustyvalentino Dusty Springfield and everybody will laugh and ask for more. No wonder he's a great artist manager!
I remember reading a book of old Arabian stories and there was a whole story on how the same things can be expressed in a lot of different ways. Like, instead of saying "All in your family has died" you can say "You outlived all your relatives". The same message is spelt differently, with different psychological impacts.
I can write a detailed answer to every one of mariosboss's statements, though just like arguing with Chris, it's missing a point a little bit. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to teach anyone how to live, I just analyse each message and reaction independently. And yes, a lot of times, I feel like demonizing Mark goes over the top. The guy had his reasons for his decisions, we just don't know them. And judging by where he's now, turns out Mark had a lot of right decisions to make, and right doesn't mean good.
Everybody on this forum loves Jack Sonni and Terry Williams and discussed their legacy a lot of times, they are examples of people who generate the least amount of controversy. Matter of fact, Jack even wrote things to this forum and was funny and open just like he was on stage. And everybody loves Chris Whitten, he's just tough to argue with and a bit harsh too sometimes, which can trigger people. But there are always more layers to the story. ALWAYS. Yes, even with Alan Clark. And generally speaking, humour saves the day, don't take this forum too seriously.
My statements? I doubt it. Feel free to. As for Chris Whitton, well he's been slightly harsh on me at times, but I totally accept it. He was actually involved in a really important period of Dire Straits and has first hand information. Both you and I never were. So we don't really have a leg to stand on.
-
Both you and I never were. So we don't really have a leg to stand on.
I was born in the Soviet Union and was 1 year old when On Every Street happened, so I think it's quite obvious that I "wasn't there" even if I wanted to. I can't agree with this position that if you weren't there, you can't talk about it. All current Titanic historians weren't there, and so what? They can't discuss it?
We have a lot of evidence though. Interviews, books, facts, Mark said a lot of things about the tour and album through the years, now Chris came and essentially proved a lot of our theories and disproved some, so I just don't understand this radical position "You weren't there — you're wrong".
I know you mean "If you weren't were, don't discuss it as if you were", but nobody here actually does it.