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Author Topic: Alan Clark - new interview  (Read 41647 times)

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #165 on: March 06, 2024, 07:31:00 AM »
>That said, the cover bands get the last laugh. Who's on tour, and who's retired from playing live?

Not sure you have nailed the last laugh definition.
They are only playing live because of MK songs.
People are only interested in them because of MK songs.
They have to pay MK every time they perform.
Even when MK dies they will still have to pay.
I laugh whenever I listen to TOTT because I don't take it seriously.

Brilliantly said, my friend. I think this "one-dimensional" thinking is a problem even people like AC are victims of. It's like they take MK songs for granted, like something that's just "there", and if you helped to arrange one of the songs, or wrote merely the ending to Romeo And Juliet, suddenly you co-wrote the song. It doesn't work like that. Mark spent 10,000 hours writing it, and your 10-hour or 20-hour addition to it is not that serious, though still valuable.

You even go further and hint that "Terminal Of Tribute To" is not a serious song. It's a good point. Look at Mark, he looks like the happiest granddad in the world and the least violent person on the planet, how somebody like this could write such a harsh, rude song? It's certainly a joke, trolling. The fact they responded with "3 Chord Trick" makes it even more hilarious, and certainly, if somebody's got the last laugh here, that would be Mark.

OfflineChris W

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #166 on: March 06, 2024, 09:12:24 AM »
In reality no one is talking about this but an online forum.
Danny is one of the key members of DSL and yet regularly appears on Mark's projects.
DSE are selling out 3,000 seater arenas, the fans absolutely love the show and Mark gets a handsome pay check at the end of it.
End of story.

OfflineRail King

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #167 on: March 06, 2024, 11:56:02 AM »

Mark knows perfectly well that it's not illegal for ex band members to form tribute bands. It's just a bit ... sad.

Mark's a multi-millionaire who never needs to work another day in his life.
The better 'tribute' bands are entertaining many thousands of people and keeping the music alive - that mark no longer wants to play.
If you work in a factory or office, sure you have no need to join a tribute band and play the music of Dire Straits, but these people still need to pay their bills and it's more fun to play great songs in front of 3,000 cheering fans than toil away on the 250 capacity club circuit, or retire from music completely.
If you went to a DSE show you wouldn't see anyone looking sad, audience or band.

Chris, I think I understand why some people would go to see DSE, and I certainly understand why some ex band members take part in it. I'm not saying it's irrational. It's just not very cool.

PS: I was in awe watching you and the rest of the band in 1992, everyone's contribution on that tour was incredible. But I must say that these days, I have more time for people like you or Paul Franklin, who do their own thing and have moved on, than I have for Phil Palmer or Alan Clark.

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #168 on: March 06, 2024, 01:41:14 PM »
But I must say that these days, I have more time for people like you or Paul Franklin, who do their own thing and have moved on, than I have for Phil Palmer or Alan Clark.

So well said Rail King. DS tribute bands with 'original members' remind me of The Doors situation, where two of them (keyboardist and guitarist) decided to tour with The Doors' music and the other member (the drummer) decided to sue them for the misleading name "The Doors of the 21st Century". They are amazing people, Ray in particular is one of the best storytellers I ever heard, and what a keyboardist he was. But I have to admit, their way of dealing with the band's legacy wasn't the best I've seen, and I'm on John Densmore's side.

Nothing wrong with playing music you have/had a lot of connection to, the problem is when you run into the court for this and ruin your relationship with somebody. And the best thing yet, yes, is just to continue doing your thing without capitalising on previous accomplishments. It's hard to do though, and one can argue Mark is doing the same by practically doing his own DS tribute + solo songs. But that's debatable.

Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #169 on: March 06, 2024, 02:09:12 PM »
Chris can speak for himself, but to my eyes he and Paul F were never defined by the DS brand in the same way as Alan, they were both known primarily as highly regarded session musicians.

Now, I know that Alan also did a lot of other stuff but it tended to be with acts associated with DS - EC, Tina, Dylan, Jimmy Nail.

Phil is a more interesting case in that in the 80s he was also in the same boat as Chris and PF I would say but nowadays would be more closely associated with DS, I guess the tribute stuff has played a part in that.
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Offlinefan no more

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #170 on: March 06, 2024, 08:33:20 PM »
Is it certain that Terminal is specifically about DSL and DSE, though? The song applies to many bands: https://ultimateclassicrock.com/bands-no-original-members/

OfflineMatchstickman

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #171 on: March 06, 2024, 08:58:06 PM »
As mentioned, I also find it very problematic. And it takes cheap shots - "No original members". As if that were such a big thing. Alan was not an original member, but essential to the band's second phase and TR, etc. There were only four original members, one being Mark and one being John, so it is not exactly surprising that those would not constitute a tribute band  ???

John and Pick both played with DS legacy a certain number of gigs, I'd say that's original members.


Not sure what you meant exactly, but "No original members" is a line from the song.


Wasn't the assumed impetus for this song "The Straits"? Wasn't that the band being discussed at the time?

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #172 on: March 06, 2024, 10:02:07 PM »
As mentioned, I also find it very problematic. And it takes cheap shots - "No original members". As if that were such a big thing. Alan was not an original member, but essential to the band's second phase and TR, etc. There were only four original members, one being Mark and one being John, so it is not exactly surprising that those would not constitute a tribute band  ???

John and Pick both played with DS legacy a certain number of gigs, I'd say that's original members.

Not sure what you meant exactly, but "No original members" is a line from the song.

Wasn't the assumed impetus for this song "The Straits"? Wasn't that the band being discussed at the time?

For all I know, even Mark himself could play with DSL and it won't change the fact he's just a guest player there (imagine that lol!), like Pick, John or Danny. The masterminds behind this all are still Alan and Phil, the heart of the band. And the guitar player, of course.

It's one big mess that I still don't completely understand. The Straits, Dire Straits Experience, Dire Straits Legacy, so many of them! I believe after some controversy Dire Straits Legacy attempted to rename itself to DSL so as not to confuse the audience, I don't think they succeeded as it still has Dire Straits all over the place.

Why you need "original members" is beyond me. It's a pity such great music creates so much controversy, not the legacy I'd want it to have. And like a lot of things, it could've done much better. From humble beginnings to all this confusion that still reverberates to this day and likely will never go away for years to come.

OfflineJF

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #173 on: March 06, 2024, 10:55:31 PM »

Brilliantly said, my friend. I think this "one-dimensional" thinking is a problem even people like AC are victims of. It's like they take MK songs for granted, like something that's just "there", and if you helped to arrange one of the songs, or wrote merely the ending to Romeo And Juliet, suddenly you co-wrote the song.

I bet Alan composed the Romeo live intro too. Because he played it as Layla intro in 1988


« Last Edit: March 06, 2024, 11:18:23 PM by JF »

OfflineJules

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #174 on: March 07, 2024, 08:02:40 AM »
As mentioned, I also find it very problematic. And it takes cheap shots - "No original members". As if that were such a big thing. Alan was not an original member, but essential to the band's second phase and TR, etc. There were only four original members, one being Mark and one being John, so it is not exactly surprising that those would not constitute a tribute band  ???

John and Pick both played with DS legacy a certain number of gigs, I'd say that's original members.

Not sure what you meant exactly, but "No original members" is a line from the song.

Wasn't the assumed impetus for this song "The Straits"? Wasn't that the band being discussed at the time?

For all I know, even Mark himself could play with DSL and it won't change the fact he's just a guest player there (imagine that lol!), like Pick, John or Danny. The masterminds behind this all are still Alan and Phil, the heart of the band. And the guitar player, of course.

It's one big mess that I still don't completely understand. The Straits, Dire Straits Experience, Dire Straits Legacy, so many of them! I believe after some controversy Dire Straits Legacy attempted to rename itself to DSL so as not to confuse the audience, I don't think they succeeded as it still has Dire Straits all over the place.

Why you need "original members" is beyond me. It's a pity such great music creates so much controversy, not the legacy I'd want it to have. And like a lot of things, it could've done much better. From humble beginnings to all this confusion that still reverberates to this day and likely will never go away for years to come.

Maybe you need to go to the genesis of all this...

Marco Caviglia set up a gig, I think in Italy, with his cover band, and he invites DS ex musicians to play with them, John and Alan betwen them, as far as I recall Phil was also there as he and Phil were mates from the Roma tennis club. I also think Chris was there. The ex DS members were not convinced of this but they thought that it would be funny to play the old songs with the old mates, and they do the gig.

The gig is very succesful, they had a lot of fun, and Alan, Chris and Phil decided to do one more gig, a charity gig at the RAH under the name of The Straits, that did very well too, with Steve Ferrone on drums, Micky Feat on bass and Terence Reiss on vocals and guitar.

As that gig went so well and promoters started to ask them to do more gigs, and as the audience seems to enjoy those shows, and in the end, this is work and they are proffesionals that have to pay their bills, they keep playing as The Straits. At this point, Marco Caviglia is out of the picture.

During that period, Alan and Phil start to suggest that the band should write their own songs and play them, they start playing one written by Alan called "Jesus Street", but there is a part of the band (Chris White and Terence Reiss) that prefer to play just the DS hits, consequently, Phil leaves the band as he is also very busy with sessions in Italy, and some months after, Alan leaves the band as he really wants to write songs for the band.

After that, Marco Caviglia enters again at the picture as he is friend of Phil and they form DS Legends. As Alan was playing sessions too and in many of them he was coinciding with Phil, they ask Alan to rejoin, and he does under the premise that they should write their own songs.

That new name is because of a petition of John Illsley that not using The Straits as it is confussion, Chris White that wants to keep playing the hits with Terence Reiss and other musicians, put the "DS Experience" name to his band. Now we have The Straits dividing in two bands. Mel Collins and Danny Cummings joins DS Legacy. Chris Whitten joined DS Experience as he is friend with Chris White for a series of gigs, but not permanently.

DS Legends play some gigs with John Illsley and Pick Withers but not together, and John ask them to change that "Legends" into other thing less confusing, and they agreed that "Legacy" would be better.

As both Alan and Phil keep playing a lot of sessions, many with Trevor Horn as producer, they ask Trevor to join them as bass player, that he does, and having Trevor in the band, they decide to make a record with stuff mostly written by Alan and Phil, which in my opinion is very good:

https://open.spotify.com/intl-es/album/1UzH2UlZOgcI9C7dT2PvRa?si=B6Qv_2yOQlGiDesh_FTZvA

Between sessions with Trevorn Horn and others, mostly in Italy and the UK, they keep playing gigs with Trevor and in the US they are usually joined by Jack Sonni and Tommy Mandel, and they include in the set some songs of their own record and even songs from Trevor Horn legacy like "Owner of a lonely heart".

And that's where we are now, both band playing their gigs, in the case of Legacy, betwen their own studio sessions, in the case of Experience, I don't know if Chris White is still playing sessions but I'm sure the rest of musicians of the band, that are hired, they are doing sessions.

The moral thing and the sadness etc etc etc, well, in my opinion is just some of you idealizising a romantic idea of defending MK against what you consider to be an attack to him. For me it's just a bunch of ex members who still are proffesional musicians playing live gigs which, according of the number of tickets they sell, have a demand, and for them is work that pay their bills, and also they have the bless of John Illsley, who is still MK's best friend, and also everytime both bands play the DS stuff, MK gets paid.

So, following the timeline, we have that the idea didn't came from them (the ex DS members) but they started it with Caviglia just for fun and playing with old mates, and seeing the response of the fans, and that in the end, is work that pay their bills, they keep doing it, having fun playing the old songs of the band, with the old mates of the band, and for the old fans of the band, and in between, they managed to satisfy the need of Alan and Phil to write their own songs and make a record.
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Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #175 on: March 07, 2024, 08:36:56 AM »
Hey jbaent, no wonder you wrote a book about Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler. Thank you for this highly detailed analysis of the Dire Straits 'official' tribute band status conundrum.

There are also successful independent bands playing Mark's music, like Great Straits and Brothers In Band. And Marco had one of, if not the oldest DS tribute bands in history before going into this highly confusing ex-members cacophony.

It's not fair to accuse critics of DSL just to assume that they are MK fanboys or attorneys who want to defend their idol, as mistakes were undeniably made along the way. The demand is obviously here as well. Demand for Mark's music is over the roof it seems judging by the popularity of tribute bands.

But that makes you wish even more for this to be done properly. I still would take a good independent DS tribute band like Great Straits over DSL any time.

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #176 on: March 07, 2024, 08:56:46 AM »
And this idea of having a tribute band to play and release original music just annihilates my brain. Like, can't you choose what you want to do? So you want to play original music or Mark Knopfler's? How are you supposed to do both at the same time? I'm afraid it's only possible for MK as he's the writer.

How it could be improved? First things first, from listening to John Illsley and changing the name right away. The name of the tribute band should never be confusing, period. It's the simplest form of respect to the band you're paying tribute to. It should not start with the band's name verbatim followed by a random word.

Even this could be enough to eliminate like 66% of prejudice against DSL, but these guys... They are really determined. They're pipers to the end!

OfflineJules

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #177 on: March 07, 2024, 09:02:38 AM »
Hey jbaent, no wonder you wrote a book about Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler. Thank you for this highly detailed analysis of the Dire Straits 'official' tribute band status conundrum.

There are also successful independent bands playing Mark's music, like Great Straits and Brothers In Band. And Marco had one of, if not the oldest DS tribute bands in history before going into this highly confusing ex-members cacophony.

It's not fair to accuse critics of DSL just to assume that they are MK fanboys or attorneys who want to defend their idol, as mistakes were undeniably made along the way. The demand is obviously here as well. Demand for Mark's music is over the roof it seems judging by the popularity of tribute bands.

But that makes you wish even more for this to be done properly. I still would take a good independent DS tribute band like Great Straits over DSL any time.

The thing is I never considered The Straits, DS Legacy or DS Experience like tribute bands.

Tribute bands are formed by fans (sometimes just people who are "tribute bands proffesionals" that doesn't care about who are tributing) that play the DS songs to show their love for that songs.

Initially Marco Caviglia had a tribute band, I think it was called "Solid rock" or "Solid rockers" which was to my knowledge, the first one in Europe, but DS Legacy or DS Experience are not bands formed by fans but of ex band members so for me, is another different thing.

I put Great Straits, Dire Strats, Real Straits, Alchemy Band and the rest in the tribute bands category, as they are fans, but those with ex members, for me are just bands of proffesional musicians that were old band members playing the DS hits, how to call them? for me, ex band members bands.
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Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #178 on: March 07, 2024, 09:31:05 AM »
The thing is I never considered The Straits, DS Legacy or DS Experience like tribute bands.

Tribute bands are formed by fans (sometimes just people who are "tribute bands proffesionals" that doesn't care about who are tributing) that play the DS songs to show their love for that songs.

Initially Marco Caviglia had a tribute band, I think it was called "Solid rock" or "Solid rockers" which was to my knowledge, the first one in Europe, but DS Legacy or DS Experience are not bands formed by fans but of ex band members so for me, is another different thing.

I put Great Straits, Dire Strats, Real Straits, Alchemy Band and the rest in the tribute bands category, as they are fans, but those with ex members, for me are just bands of proffesional musicians that were old band members playing the DS hits, how to call them? for me, ex band members bands.

Interesting... I think if you play somebody else's song it is always a cover no matter who you are and what you do with it regardless of genre or arrangement. Mark played many covers himself. There are even many songs that are more popular in their cover version, it doesn't make them not covers.

And if your band plays somebody else's music it's a tribute band regardless. The material dictates the definition of your band, not who you are. So DSL is still a tribute band, just with "original members".

This definitely puts more stress on them as they are supposed to be the definitive tribute band, unlike those made by fans for fans. And again, you expect them to act with more class and dignity than those without such prerequisites, and they deserve scrutiny and yes, criticism.

OfflineChris W

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Re: Alan Clark - new interview
« Reply #179 on: March 07, 2024, 09:34:15 AM »
I still would take a good independent DS tribute band like Great Straits over DSL any time.

I would take the one band that does the music and the legacy justice, and that very clearly means DSE.
99% of the tribute bands have no energy and as soon as someone starts singing in a heavy continental accent the illusion is lost.

 

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