A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: johnanton on August 11, 2019, 10:44:35 PM
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Hi there! :wave
I'm curios what other guitar players / members of the forum have to say about this?
What makes it so hard to imitate Mark's guitar playing?
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His fingers.
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Read this about Gilmours take on MK.
https://classicsdujour.com/new-mark-knopfler-david-gilmour-tells-me-what-happened-when-he-lent-mark-his-amps/
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Read this about Gilmours take on MK.
https://classicsdujour.com/new-mark-knopfler-david-gilmour-tells-me-what-happened-when-he-lent-mark-his-amps/
Sweet, despite being a HUGE Gilmour fan, I had never before read this
sent from my Samsung Galaxy 9+ via tapatalk
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Read this about Gilmours take on MK.
https://classicsdujour.com/new-mark-knopfler-david-gilmour-tells-me-what-happened-when-he-lent-mark-his-amps/
thanks for sharing this ,it's an interesting story.
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His fingers.
Can you please elaborate on this? do you mean he has strong fingers, or the way his fingers are built ?
or his claw style? several other players are using fingers ( john mayer for example , he's very good with the fingers) . so what makes Mark so special?
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His fingers.
Can you please elaborate on this? do you mean he has strong fingers, or the way his fingers are built ?
or his claw style? several other players are using fingers ( john mayer for example , he's very good with the fingers) . so what makes Mark so special?
It has to do with a lot of things like his thumb coming down to the high strings, the specific parts of his fingers that he uses to articulate notes (this comes down to millimeters, somewhere he mentioned the fleshy part of his thimb), hitting the same string with thumb+finger, strong and specific vibrato, etc.
Checkout this video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_7feGF9TA8
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Read this about Gilmours take on MK.
https://classicsdujour.com/new-mark-knopfler-david-gilmour-tells-me-what-happened-when-he-lent-mark-his-amps/ (https://classicsdujour.com/new-mark-knopfler-david-gilmour-tells-me-what-happened-when-he-lent-mark-his-amps/)
Which charity event was it that Gilmour referred to?
From the article:
"David was doing a gig somewhere for a charity and there were a number of musicians invited. He had brought all his gear, which you can imagine is quite sophisticated and designed to give him that signature Pink Floyd sound (most professional guitar players have their unique rigs built to achieve this for their live performances).[/size]Well, Knopfler had showed up for the show with only his guitar and asked David if he could borrow his rig and amps to play out of. David said, of course but sat with his guitar tech, Phil Taylor, watching as both worried that Knopfler couldn’t help but sound like David Gilmour/Pink Floyd, and how weird that might be."
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I think they have that wrong, it was a TV show, French & Saunders, a comedy skit. Mark and David were there with Lemmy, Mark King, and Garry More. It is on YouTube.
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It's a good question and the one that has no simple answer... or any answer.
Don't forget that "Mark's guitar playing" is not something he invented single handedly, it has elements of J.J. Cale, Chet Atkins, B.B. King etc... From my understanding, the term "it sounds like Dire Straits" originated long after Dire Straits debut album and everybody was like: it sounds like J.J. Cale, Chet Atkins, B.B. King etc... He got extremely lucky since he was born in the right time and in the right place, which obviously nobody can imitate. When I was a kid I wanted to play on every guitar with my fingers long before I knew who Mark Knopfler is, I just dig the sound like he digs it, so it's not so much of a unique idea to say the least.
Nobody can imitate someone's guitar playing or songwriting, but if you're talking about "sounding like MK", it's hard because it rely more on skill rather than on gear (same thing with many many many of great players, by the way). But you can start to "sound like MK" by taking a Stratocaster guitar, any Strat out of the box and engaging bridge and middle pickups on any amp. It's like if you want to sound like Django you buy a Selmer-Maccaferri style guitar and boom — you sound exactly like Django!
I don't think that it's really hard to imitate Mark's guitar playing as much as it has no purpose, because he already sounds like MK enough. It makes sense if only you're going to become so great that like with Mark himself, everybody will forget you imitating and remember you becoming yourself, but it's hard to do, because MK is a genius and that's really what is hard to imitate.
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I think they have that wrong, it was a TV show, French & Saunders, a comedy skit. Mark and David were there with Lemmy, Mark King, and Garry More. It is on YouTube.
Possibly. Must check other charity events..
sent from my Samsung Galaxy 9+ via tapatalk
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I think they have that wrong, it was a TV show, French & Saunders, a comedy skit. Mark and David were there with Lemmy, Mark King, and Garry More. It is on YouTube.
Possibly. Must check other charity events..
sent from my Samsung Galaxy 9+ via tapatalk
I don't think Gilmour would have brought his tech and all his fancy gear for the French and Saunders production. The guy who wrote the article spoke to Gilmour face to face, and I have hard time believing he would have gotten those details so wrong. Maybe email the writer?
ADD: I just emailed the writer. Will update with info if he answers.
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It's a good question and the one that has no simple answer... or any answer.
Don't forget that "Mark's guitar playing" is not something he invented single handedly, it has elements of J.J. Cale, Chet Atkins, B.B. King etc... From my understanding, the term "it sounds like Dire Straits" originated long after Dire Straits debut album and everybody was like: it sounds like J.J. Cale, Chet Atkins, B.B. King etc... He got extremely lucky since he was born in the right time and in the right place, which obviously nobody can imitate. When I was a kid I wanted to play on every guitar with my fingers long before I knew who Mark Knopfler is, I just dig the sound like he digs it, so it's not so much of a unique idea to say the least.
Nobody can imitate someone's guitar playing or songwriting, but if you're talking about "sounding like MK", it's hard because it rely more on skill rather than on gear (same thing with many many many of great players, by the way). But you can start to "sound like MK" by taking a Stratocaster guitar, any Strat out of the box and engaging bridge and middle pickups on any amp. It's like if you want to sound like Django you buy a Selmer-Maccaferri style guitar and boom — you sound exactly like Django!
I don't think that it's really hard to imitate Mark's guitar playing as much as it has no purpose, because he already sounds like MK enough. It makes sense if only you're going to become so great that like with Mark himself, everybody will forget you imitating and remember you becoming yourself, but it's hard to do, because MK is a genius and that's really what is hard to imitate.
Agree with all of this. Mark's technique may be a little unusual, but it's not that different from other fingerpickers. And the things he plays are not very difficult for advanced players. It's Mark's feel and musicality that are the hard part to copy, but then we are talking about copying someone's personality, and why would anyone do that (unless you're in a tribute band and has to get things down note for note)?
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I think they have that wrong, it was a TV show, French & Saunders, a comedy skit. Mark and David were there with Lemmy, Mark King, and Garry More. It is on YouTube.
Possibly. Must check other charity events..
sent from my Samsung Galaxy 9+ via tapatalk
I don't think Gilmour would have brought his tech and all his fancy gear for the French and Saunders production. The guy who wrote the article spoke to Gilmour face to face, and I have hard time believing he would have gotten those details so wrong. Maybe email the writer?
ADD: I just emailed the writer. Will update with info if he answers.
Could it be Knebworth. They both played that.
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I think they have that wrong, it was a TV show, French & Saunders, a comedy skit. Mark and David were there with Lemmy, Mark King, and Garry More. It is on YouTube.
Possibly. Must check other charity events..
sent from my Samsung Galaxy 9+ via tapatalk
I don't think Gilmour would have brought his tech and all his fancy gear for the French and Saunders production. The guy who wrote the article spoke to Gilmour face to face, and I have hard time believing he would have gotten those details so wrong. Maybe email the writer?
ADD: I just emailed the writer. Will update with info if he answers.
Could it be Knebworth. They both played that.
I had a look at YouTube, and you can clearly see Soldano amps on the stage. Both Mark and Eric used those at the time. Don't think Gilmour did.
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They got together for the Elvis's guitarist, Scotty Moore. EC, DG, MK and many more... MK played two Elvis song.
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There is an interview somewhere with Gilmour's guitar tech who said Mark plugged into David's set up and sounded just like Mark Knopfler, how big the set-up was I don't know, but he was talking about the French & Saunders TV show.
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Another addition to this thread is that MK is left handed therefore making his 'note' playing hand much stronger....of course it's really just because he's MK that he plays his way!!!
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Another addition to this thread is that MK is left handed therefore making his 'note' playing hand much stronger....of course it's really just because he's MK that he plays his way!!!
I'm left handed as well but if i play my MK strat i don't sound like MK unfortunately ;)
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They got together for the Elvis's guitarist, Scotty Moore. EC, DG, MK and many more... MK played two Elvis song.
I watched the Scotty Moore tribute clips, and it looks like David is plugged into a Fender Tweed type of amp with a delay stomp box (there's also a strobe tuner on top of the amp). I can't really see what Mark is plugged into as the camera doesn't keep still long enough and there are several Tweed amps on stage. Difficult to say if they use the same amp, but at any rate, Gilmour's setup is a far cry from his huge Pink Floyd rig (which was mentioned in the article). This is a mystery! OR, the writer is mixing up the events here. Who knows if Mark on some occasion met Gilmour during some rehearsal and played through Gilmour's touring rig? Or maybe he simply tested Gilmour's rig at Knebworth, but used his own during the show?
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Another addition to this thread is that MK is left handed therefore making his 'note' playing hand much stronger....of course it's really just because he's MK that he plays his way!!!
I'm left handed as well but if i play my MK strat i don't sound like MK unfortunately ;)
Exactly, because your'e not MK!!!!! :wave
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Hi there! :wave
I'm curios what other guitar players / members of the forum have to say about this?
What makes it so hard to imitate Mark's guitar playing?
Main key is strength of the fingers, you can reach a very good level by training 6-8 hours a day 5 days a week
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hi amiters
long time ago I read, I think on 'guitarist', a short paragraph by david gilmour about Mark's playing, someone can help me find it?
:thumbsup
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It's not hard to imitate MK playing. Many guitar players from tribute bands do it very well.
What is hard is to compose what he did with his guitar playing, thats the hard thing to imitate.
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Hi there! :wave
I'm curios what other guitar players / members of the forum have to say about this?
What makes it so hard to imitate Mark's guitar playing?
Main key is strength of the fingers, you can reach a very good level by training 6-8 hours a day 5 days a week
you are right. all the bends and steady vibrato require quite some strength in the fingers.
Mark developed the stamina playing fingerstyle blues and ragtime in his early days.
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It's a good question and the one that has no simple answer... or any answer.
Don't forget that "Mark's guitar playing" is not something he invented single handedly, it has elements of J.J. Cale, Chet Atkins, B.B. King etc... From my understanding, the term "it sounds like Dire Straits" originated long after Dire Straits debut album and everybody was like: it sounds like J.J. Cale, Chet Atkins, B.B. King etc... He got extremely lucky since he was born in the right time and in the right place, which obviously nobody can imitate. When I was a kid I wanted to play on every guitar with my fingers long before I knew who Mark Knopfler is, I just dig the sound like he digs it, so it's not so much of a unique idea to say the least.
Nobody can imitate someone's guitar playing or songwriting, but if you're talking about "sounding like MK", it's hard because it rely more on skill rather than on gear (same thing with many many many of great players, by the way). But you can start to "sound like MK" by taking a Stratocaster guitar, any Strat out of the box and engaging bridge and middle pickups on any amp. It's like if you want to sound like Django you buy a Selmer-Maccaferri style guitar and boom — you sound exactly like Django!
I don't think that it's really hard to imitate Mark's guitar playing as much as it has no purpose, because he already sounds like MK enough. It makes sense if only you're going to become so great that like with Mark himself, everybody will forget you imitating and remember you becoming yourself, but it's hard to do, because MK is a genius and that's really what is hard to imitate.
I believe it's quite hard to imitate Mark's playing. he developed his style by studying and playing old ragtime blues. this requires strength and coordination, good right hand rhythm, good pulse, etc..
I never saw a cover band doing it right.
I am wondering if the 'genius' can be trained, if you follow the 10000 hour rule, and practice hard.
I’m not really talking about copying 100% because you can’t ... because of all the details like pickups , guitars, amps, it’s almost like crazy complicated but you can get close to the spirit of Mark's playing by studying hard all the nuances.
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hi amiters
long time ago I read, I think on 'guitarist', a short paragraph by david gilmour about Mark's playing, someone can help me find it?
:thumbsup
This?
https://pfco.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/band/interviews/djg/djggc85.html (https://pfco.neptunepinkfloyd.co.uk/band/interviews/djg/djggc85.html)
JS: Did you start out as a fan of the blues?
[/size]DG: I was a blues fan but I was an all-around music fan. For me it was Leadbelly through B.B. King and later Eric Clapton, Roy Buchanan, Jeff Beck, Eddie Van Halen and anyone you care to mention. Mark Knopfler has a lovely, refreshing guitar style. He brought back something that seemed to have gone astray in guitar playing.
[/size]JS: Was there a particular song or songs that sparked you to imitate another player?
[/size]DG: Of course, there were many. I was trying to learn 12-string acoustic guitar like Leadbelly at the same time I was trying to learn lead guitar like Hank Marvin and later Clapton. All of those different things had their moments and filtered through my learning process. These days I don't listen to other people with the objective of trying to steal their licks, although I've got no objections to stealing them if that seems like a good idea. I'm sure that I'm still influenced by Mark Knopfler and Eddie Van Halen as well.
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It's a good question and the one that has no simple answer... or any answer.
Don't forget that "Mark's guitar playing" is not something he invented single handedly, it has elements of J.J. Cale, Chet Atkins, B.B. King etc... From my understanding, the term "it sounds like Dire Straits" originated long after Dire Straits debut album and everybody was like: it sounds like J.J. Cale, Chet Atkins, B.B. King etc... He got extremely lucky since he was born in the right time and in the right place, which obviously nobody can imitate. When I was a kid I wanted to play on every guitar with my fingers long before I knew who Mark Knopfler is, I just dig the sound like he digs it, so it's not so much of a unique idea to say the least.
Nobody can imitate someone's guitar playing or songwriting, but if you're talking about "sounding like MK", it's hard because it rely more on skill rather than on gear (same thing with many many many of great players, by the way). But you can start to "sound like MK" by taking a Stratocaster guitar, any Strat out of the box and engaging bridge and middle pickups on any amp. It's like if you want to sound like Django you buy a Selmer-Maccaferri style guitar and boom — you sound exactly like Django!
I don't think that it's really hard to imitate Mark's guitar playing as much as it has no purpose, because he already sounds like MK enough. It makes sense if only you're going to become so great that like with Mark himself, everybody will forget you imitating and remember you becoming yourself, but it's hard to do, because MK is a genius and that's really what is hard to imitate.
I believe it's quite hard to imitate Mark's playing. he developed his style by studying and playing old ragtime blues. this requires strength and coordination, good right hand rhythm, good pulse, etc..
I never saw a cover band doing it right.
I am wondering if the 'genius' can be trained, if you follow the 10000 hour rule, and practice hard.
I’m not really talking about copying 100% because you can’t ... because of all the details like pickups , guitars, amps, it’s almost like crazy complicated but you can get close to the spirit of Mark's playing by studying hard all the nuances.
Remember that Mark had and still have many relatives and friends and also 4 children and nobody has yet exceeded or even gotten close to his level of genius, it means that even if his closest actual relatives and friends can't touch it, obviously we mortals can't get to this level even with 100000 hours of practice.
With that said, if you look closely you can see Mark plays pretty much same little things throughout his whole career, I believe you can hear him playing the same "Mississippi Blues" all the way from his late 20s to 70, so for almost 50 years straight (at least on camera). And he quite obviously lacks some deep guitar knowledge and can't be up there with all the technical greats and virtuosos like his own bandmate Richard Bennett.
I have to say that Mark IS a virtuoso on his own right before somebody would throw a rotten tomato at me though. I guess with Mark this old saying goes well: "I fear not the man who has practiced 10000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10000 times". Meaning that Mark put all his efforts into developing his own style and has become a virtuoso at it, while sacrificing really deep blues/jazz/country skills, which seems not to bother him at all.
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taken from an interview
Do you just jam on guitar to come up with melodies and changes?
MARK: Yes, for hours and hours. And then for more hours. I can play by myself quite happily for days. Sometimes I sit down at the piano and hit the keys, make shapes, but I’m not what you'd call a player. I'm not what I'd call a proper musician on the guitar. I feel as though I'm a student who's not going to school. I've been working from the Mickey Baker book [Jazz And Hot Guitar, Book I] to get some extra chords. I love to learn a new chord and find out what it means, and use it in what I write. I'm developing slowly that way.
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And that interview is from1979, 1985 or 1992?
It says he practice for hours so it might be a very old interview.
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And that interview is from1979, 1985 or 1992?
It says he practice for hours so it might be a very old interview.
Undoubtedly from around LOG era roughly 1982 The Mikey Baker chord book reference gives it away....
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And that interview is from1979, 1985 or 1992?
It says he practice for hours so it might be a very old interview.
Undoubtedly from around LOG era roughly 1982 The Mikey Baker chord book reference gives it away....
Yes, most certainly mid-80s.That's when he started to do more jazzy songs for sure. Learns one new chord, instantly uses it for the new song. Compare it to your standard jazz musician who learns 1000 chords and uses it on same jazz standards that everybody plays. That's why I'm not a musician, too.
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It's not hard to imitate MK playing. Many guitar players from tribute bands do it very well.
What is hard is to compose what he did with his guitar playing, thats the hard thing to imitate.
I think most (all i have heard) guitar players from tribute bands really suck at imitating MK. They often play the right melody, but lack the intonation and his basic technique, which is quite unique. Ingo is really close. He is the best i have heard. Dusty has a really good MK inspired tone, but he is not trying to imitate or replicate. MK does so many suptile things with both hands that so few are aware of and that is important to get the right sound.
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The thing is, when people try to imitate players such as Mark and others who have a very personal and recognizable style, it quickly sounds like a parody. It's almost as bad as some of the tribute bands where the "Mark character" wears a headband and a blazer.
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I have somewhere a magazine in which MK was asked to talk about DG as a guitarist and DG about MK. A bit like a cross-interview where the two interviewees don't meet. It's in French and not very elaborate but when I put my hand on it I'll put a translation here. (if I hasn't been done before)