What's The Matter Baby

[Rolo]

in the Oldfield book, David explains that when they jammed together with Mark on acoustic guitars, before DS in Mark's flat at Buckhust Hill (CIRCA 75-76 I guess) they played more or less what became songs on two first albums. For example, he remembers the melodic line in Lions, and when Mark composed the song in studio in february-march 78, David gave him the idea to use this melody.

david explains that these jams were not exactly "songs" but more "a sound, a kind of style, of feeling"

so indeed, David "participated" in the DS groove so to say, but not exactly in writing songs imho

Indeed!

Co Writing is different than suggest some words, phrases or melodic suggestions.
If suggesting words or melodies is co-writing, DK, AC and GF would be credited as co-authors of a part of MK songs.

I believe that DK found his inspiration as a composer during the Ship Of  Dreams composition process.

[Jules]

in the Oldfield book, David explains that when they jammed together with Mark on acoustic guitars, before DS in Mark's flat at Buckhust Hill (CIRCA 75-76 I guess) they played more or less what became songs on two first albums. For example, he remembers the melodic line in Lions, and when Mark composed the song in studio in february-march 78, David gave him the idea to use this melody.

david explains that these jams were not exactly "songs" but more "a sound, a kind of style, of feeling"

so indeed, David "participated" in the DS groove so to say, but not exactly in writing songs imho

Indeed!

Co Writing is different than suggest some words, phrases or melodic suggestions.
If suggesting words or melodies is co-writing, DK, AC and GF would be credited as co-authors of a part of MK songs.

I believe that DK found his inspiration as a composer during the Ship Of  Dreams composition process.

Way before...

All his previous records, starting from "release" in 1983 have very good songs, but for me it was with "the giver", I think in 1994, that he started to write his best stuff, with "small mercies" following and increasing the level.

[Rolo]

Way before...

All his previous records, starting from "release" in 1983 have very good songs, but for me it was with "the giver", I think in 1994, that he started to write his best stuff, with "small mercies" following and increasing the level.

Yes.
The Giver its a good album.
Release have a couple of good songs.
But, in my opinion, both are very bad in terms of production.
Lifelines, if i remember well, was released under a major label. In my opinion, Lifelines is a bad album.

For me, Ship Of Dreams was a game changer for DK.
Wishbones is good too

[the visitor]

I'm not a big fan of David's work, but worth remembering he wouldn't have the production budget of MK or the studio access the countless compressors and outboard equipment.  What he's turned out with those limitations stands up pretty well. 

It's a controversial comment but I find it quite curious that MKs style of easy listening songs over his solo career  are very similar to Davids in terms of style from a cursory listen.  Maybe that's why I don't listen to them much...

[quizzaciously]

Speaking of writing credits, sorry for being off-topic, but I don't know where else to ask. Are there any The Police fans? Why Andy Summers wasn't granted a writing credit for "Every Breath You Take"? Sting literally said "Make it your own" when failed to come up with the proper arrangement for this song, and Andy came up with a riff that is more iconic and famous than any other song by Sting. And it makes him a few thousand dollars each day. This song would be nothing without this guitar part. And which is more surprising, later in his career, Sting shared writing credits with Dominic Miller for writing the guitar part for "Shape Of My Heart", which was originally an exercise for fingers. Go figure!

[Rolo]

Speaking of writing credits, sorry for being off-topic, but I don't know where else to ask. Are there any The Police fans? Why Andy Summers wasn't granted a writing credit for "Every Breath You Take"? Sting literally said "Make it your own" when failed to come up with the proper arrangement for this song, and Andy came up with a riff that is more iconic and famous than any other song by Sting. And it makes him a few thousand dollars each day. This song would be nothing without this guitar part. And which is more surprising, later in his career, Sting shared writing credits with Dominic Miller for writing the guitar part for "Shape Of My Heart", which was originally an exercise for fingers. Go figure!

Maybe the Police 'writing credits' has some contractual arrangements. But, i'm sure that Andy receives a lot of money for his arrangement credits on EBYT.
In Brazil, the credits are splitted by:
41.7% - authors
41.7% - producers
16.6% - musicians

There are a famous Heavy Metal band in Brazil called Angra.
The author-credits deal was:
If you bring a melodic idea that can turn to a song, you are the author.

I don't know about The Police deals, but i suppose that Stewart and Summer can be added as arrangers/producers.

[JF]

If you bring a melodic idea that can turn to a song, you are the author.

nice idea but sometimes, it's a little bit more complex : several msuicians can bring a melody, and moreover sometimes it's a riff, sometimes its' an iconic sound, or only the intro, etc... a song can be created from many sources, and often by several persons at the same time

and in the end, if the song became famous, you have to find what piece of the song made it iconic

that's what makes the writing credits thing difficult

[Jules]

If you bring a melodic idea that can turn to a song, you are the author.

nice idea but sometimes, it's a little bit more complex : several msuicians can bring a melody, and moreover sometimes it's a riff, sometimes its' an iconic sound, or only the intro, etc... a song can be created from many sources, and often by several persons at the same time

and in the end, if the song became famous, you have to find what piece of the song made it iconic

that's what makes the writing credits thing difficult

It just depends on the band, or the leader.

Toto credit any of their members if they add anything to the song, a drum groove, a bass line, a keyboard solo etc that makes the song sound better and makes it famous.

Others claim that as long as the lyrics and chords are theirs, nobody deserves credits whatever they add.

[dustyvalentino]

Bobby Valentino successfully sued for writing credit on The Bluebells' Young At Heart because he added the fiddle part. It had already been recorded and released by Banarama without the fiddle part.

[qjamesfloyd]

And don't forget the Clare Torry case for A Great Gig in The Sky.

[Eddie Fox]

David always sounds like Peter Pan to me, very immature, a grownup with a teen mentality. If I was in his position, being a no more than average musician and having a genius big brother, I’d certainly embrace it rather than helplessly fighting for room in the band.

[herlock]

David always sounds like Peter Pan to me, very immature, a grownup with a teen mentality. If I was in his position, being a no more than average musician and having a genius big brother, I’d certainly embrace it rather than helplessly fighting for room in the band.

He had the great courage to leave a highly succesful band to do his own stuff rather than fulfilling his others' dreams.

A path the Mark will ultimately follow... 12 years after his brother! Just provoking: which brother is most immature?

[Jules]

David always sounds like Peter Pan to me, very immature, a grownup with a teen mentality. If I was in his position, being a no more than average musician and having a genius big brother, I’d certainly embrace it rather than helplessly fighting for room in the band.

He had the great courage to leave a highly succesful band to do his own stuff rather than fulfilling his others' dreams.

A path the Mark will ultimately follow... 12 years after his brother! Just provoking: which brother is most immature?

Fully agree. David was mature enough to leave an increasingly famous and successful band. He could had stayed and getting his money for nothing but took the bravest decision. Leaving and pursuing his own career.

He's not in the richest list of people in the country but did good enough to earn a living.

[Pierre]

It all depends on wether you want fame and money or doing what you like for less fame and less money but with more freedom and self-respect.

What's a pity is the family relationship being irremediably damaged, I think had David stayed it wouldn't have been long before he were forced to leave for a better player anyway

[Jules]

It all depends on wether you want fame and money or doing what you like for less fame and less money but with more freedom and self-respect.

What's a pity is the family relationship being irremediably damaged, I think had David stayed it wouldn't have been long before he were forced to leave for a better player anyway

They kept John as the bass player to the end. They didn't search for a better player.

David was good enough and could had been better but he wasn't keen on what was happening so he didn't mind growing better. But in his solo career he did great things on piano and also on guitar clearly better that he did with DS. Clearly a case of motivation. If he had been motivated in the band he would had grown better and non other guitar player would had been needed. The next guitar players no matter how good they were had a complicated role to fill in either.