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Author Topic: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!  (Read 103687 times)

Offlinejbaent

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #225 on: September 18, 2023, 06:19:10 PM »
about PB :

several people find that Mel/Mark's duel isn't that worth. ok, matter of taste, each on his own

but the song outro has also another important thing : the band introduction and the link to the TOL intro.

imho, one important thing about musical arrangements during this period was that several songs were linked, and I find it's a shame to not keep that

it's like on OTN you would have a fade out a the end of HF, and then a fade in at the start of R&J. It's a non-sense muscially-wise imho

I hope the link between ID and EL is on this new release.... but maybe Guy chose that it wasn't worth to keep it... ::)
Exactly! the right connection to TOl was finally given. However, maybe it was better before that the song was missing. There's no point in inserting and cutting it now. absurd choice! I will repeat it endlessly! now the omelette is done.

Its veryr easy to connect, you only need a point that is exactly in both recordings like a drum crash or something to paste both recordings and you won't notice anything. Actually in the Portobello outtro and TOL intro there are some drums sounds that end with a microsilence. That's the perfect point to paste both recordings.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2023, 06:21:50 PM by jbaent »
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Offlinejbaent

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #226 on: September 18, 2023, 06:21:15 PM »
AND THIS ONE?  :thumbsup

https://whyp.it/tracks/123520/crossfade-2?token=G6X0c

Good work but the TOL part needs a fade in to cross-fade correctly with the end of Portobello.

It's a good way to show that, without having the best studio recording in the world such things can be made, imagine what you can do in Mark's studio!
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OfflineRobson

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #227 on: September 18, 2023, 06:23:14 PM »
There's too much editing in all this. Too little naturalness.
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Offlineonceupon84

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #228 on: September 18, 2023, 06:24:17 PM »
another one

https://whyp.it/tracks/123523/crossfade-3?token=dZbly

5 minutes working with standard audio editor. Think on studio... don't think on quality, music is in same tone
« Last Edit: September 18, 2023, 06:26:22 PM by onceupon84 »

Offlinejbaent

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #229 on: September 18, 2023, 06:35:22 PM »
another one

https://whyp.it/tracks/123523/crossfade-3?token=dZbly

5 minutes working with standard audio editor. Think on studio... don't think on quality, music is in same tone

Yes, there are multiple options but you need to dedicate time, not much actually but a fade out and cut is lots easier!
You might get lucky, now and then

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OfflineRobson

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #230 on: September 21, 2023, 07:52:12 PM »
I thought they could have put a different song on Encores than Your Latest Trick. The same song twice again.
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Now come on woman, come follow me home

Offlinejbaent

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #231 on: September 21, 2023, 10:19:32 PM »
I thought they could have put a different song on Encores than Your Latest Trick. The same song twice again.

They didn't touch Encores nor the BBC.

Actually, they didn't touch Alchemy or OTN, they just added stuff to the existing music.
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OfflineRobson

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #232 on: September 21, 2023, 10:26:33 PM »
I thought they could have put a different song on Encores than Your Latest Trick. The same song twice again.

They didn't touch Encores nor the BBC.

Actually, they didn't touch Alchemy or OTN, they just added stuff to the existing music.

It's true, but it's a pity because there was a chance for correction. Of course, I'm not complaining, I'm looking forward to November 3, but the details are important.
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
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Now come on woman, come follow me home

Offlinejbaent

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #233 on: September 22, 2023, 09:17:42 AM »
Looking at the description on the official site I read something intriguing...

"An expanded version of the original 2LP of Alchemy to include the existing digital/CD tracklist which includes ‘Love Over Gold’ and the extended versions of ‘Telegraph Road’, ‘Solid Rock’ and ‘Going Home’, with the addition of ‘Portobello Belle’ (released on the Money For Nothing compilation in 1998) as well as the unreleased songs from the performance – ‘Industrial Disease’ and ‘Twisting By The Pool’.

I don't understand which extension can be made to "Telegraph Road", as far as we know that song was in full version in the original Alchemy... Only way to extend it is if you use the version from the MFN compilation which starts with a fade in and the synth sounds, but there is not much missed there. This version ends with a fade out so if they used this version and let it go till the end, yes, it's an extended version of that MFN compilation remix, but the original song was already full, so this is a total NONSENSE.

Same goes to "Solid Rock", how can you extend songs that were already in full version in the original record? Unless they used the sound from the Alchemy bluray, with the sax sounds from the start, but that's not extended but remixed!!!!

"Going Home", well, I understand that if they add the speech before GH, that's an extension.

About "Portobello Belle" it is described as an addition, and with a reference to the MFN compilation (1998???) but it doesn't say that is the edited version from that compilation with the only the intro added.

Unreleased songs from Alchemy makes sense to "Industrial disease" and "Twisting by the pool".

Checking Spotify and Amazon Music (for the new version Spotify doesn't shows the information of not reseleased tracks) lenghts this is the comparation of lenghts for the extended versions:

TRACK                ORIGINAL ALCHEMY   NEW ALCHEMY

Telegraph Road          13.37                      12.56

Solid rock                    6.01                       5.35

Going home                 6.05                       5.06


It's quite funny to notice that "extended" versions are SHORTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

About TR, which is 13.37 in the Alchemy original, 12.56 in the new one, it is 12.00 in the MFN compilation so, yes it's extended compared to the MFN compilation, 56 seconds but shorter than the original Alchemy version.

Maybe these new versions are shorter because they have less claps than the original? but that doesn't make the songs extended respect to the original versions either.

Not to mention that is a NONSENSE that they swapped TR and Solid Rock in the track order of the CD, makes sense for the LP but bot for the cd or at least that's how it is listed for the cd.

I guess Guy would had been to busy with other things to make a proper new mix of everything and used already existing material to save time, or maybe the record company had less budget that needed for this project so using already material fit better with the budget, but for me this looks like a weird way to do things.

However, having "Industrial disease" and "Twisting by the pool" and an edited version of "Portobello" is better than nothing.

And also having the extra tracks for OTN and the Rainbow concert with Phil Lynnot is AWESOME, but it's a pity that Alchemy wasn't treated as it deserved.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2023, 09:20:32 AM by jbaent »
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Offlineherlock

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #234 on: September 22, 2023, 11:14:19 AM »
I'm not too sure what they did on Alchemy, it's beginning to look like a butcher's job. For some lengths (TR) it looks like the source is the 2010 excellent blu-Ray remix, but for others (TOL, GH) it looks abnormmay short.

Whenever I want to listen to Alchemy I put on the Blu Ray. The sound is much better, the film is more "fluid", less useless clapping and transitions (what's the point of having the end of ID and of PB when 99.9% of these songs are cut), but with some important parts that are not on the album: the intro speeches of TOL and GH, namely. On the other hand, the album has 2 things the film is lacking, the legendary "Thank yooooooouuu!" to introduce SOS and a longer R&J synth intro. (And LOG, of course, but this live version of TOL is not fantastic compared to the album version).

I have no idea of what they did, but the short lengths can't possibly be good news, indeed...

The track I'm really eager to listen to is the '92 soundboard version of TOL. Unlike most people here I really enjoy the "romantic" pensa sound on TOL, even with no intro I prefer them even to the great' 85 versions! None of the available audience versions has great sound, so this will really be a premiere...

Offlinejbaent

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #235 on: September 22, 2023, 12:11:44 PM »
Never liked the 91/92 version of TOL, always sounded too mellow for me, in comparation with the energetic versions of the 82-85 era.

From the OES unreleased songs I'm looking forward to "I think I love you too much" and "when it comes to you" and that's all.
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Offlinermarques821

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #236 on: September 22, 2023, 12:21:37 PM »
Looking at the description on the official site I read something intriguing...

"An expanded version of the original 2LP of Alchemy to include the existing digital/CD tracklist which includes ‘Love Over Gold’ and the extended versions of ‘Telegraph Road’, ‘Solid Rock’ and ‘Going Home’, with the addition of ‘Portobello Belle’ (released on the Money For Nothing compilation in 1998) as well as the unreleased songs from the performance – ‘Industrial Disease’ and ‘Twisting By The Pool’.

I don't understand which extension can be made to "Telegraph Road", as far as we know that song was in full version in the original Alchemy... Only way to extend it is if you use the version from the MFN compilation which starts with a fade in and the synth sounds, but there is not much missed there. This version ends with a fade out so if they used this version and let it go till the end, yes, it's an extended version of that MFN compilation remix, but the original song was already full, so this is a total NONSENSE.

Same goes to "Solid Rock", how can you extend songs that were already in full version in the original record? Unless they used the sound from the Alchemy bluray, with the sax sounds from the start, but that's not extended but remixed!!!!

"Going Home", well, I understand that if they add the speech before GH, that's an extension.

About "Portobello Belle" it is described as an addition, and with a reference to the MFN compilation (1998???) but it doesn't say that is the edited version from that compilation with the only the intro added.

Unreleased songs from Alchemy makes sense to "Industrial disease" and "Twisting by the pool".

Checking Spotify and Amazon Music (for the new version Spotify doesn't shows the information of not reseleased tracks) lenghts this is the comparation of lenghts for the extended versions:

TRACK                ORIGINAL ALCHEMY   NEW ALCHEMY

Telegraph Road          13.37                      12.56

Solid rock                    6.01                       5.35

Going home                 6.05                       5.06


It's quite funny to notice that "extended" versions are SHORTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

About TR, which is 13.37 in the Alchemy original, 12.56 in the new one, it is 12.00 in the MFN compilation so, yes it's extended compared to the MFN compilation, 56 seconds but shorter than the original Alchemy version.

Maybe these new versions are shorter because they have less claps than the original? but that doesn't make the songs extended respect to the original versions either.

Not to mention that is a NONSENSE that they swapped TR and Solid Rock in the track order of the CD, makes sense for the LP but bot for the cd or at least that's how it is listed for the cd.

I guess Guy would had been to busy with other things to make a proper new mix of everything and used already existing material to save time, or maybe the record company had less budget that needed for this project so using already material fit better with the budget, but for me this looks like a weird way to do things.

However, having "Industrial disease" and "Twisting by the pool" and an edited version of "Portobello" is better than nothing.

And also having the extra tracks for OTN and the Rainbow concert with Phil Lynnot is AWESOME, but it's a pity that Alchemy wasn't treated as it deserved.
Yep, I agree. I have no idea what they're doing with these shorter versions that they claim to be "extended".

Offlinejf9081

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #237 on: September 22, 2023, 12:47:07 PM »
the right thing, given the importance of this fantastic and historic live show, was to finally do it justice in 2023. With the technology available today, it is absurd not to do it. All you had to do was take the tapes and mix it from start to finish. Cuts, extended versions, 2010 remixes, remixes only of the "new" ones etc..just a big confusion!
It's not to be repetitive...even after days of discovering the cut on PB I still don't get over the disappointment.

OfflineRobson

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #238 on: September 22, 2023, 01:54:35 PM »
Maybe Guy Fletcher will explain something in the diaries. He is not answering questions for now :)
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

Offlinejbaent

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #239 on: September 22, 2023, 02:33:29 PM »
Maybe Guy Fletcher will explain something in the diaries. He is not answering questions for now :)

He must be upset with many fans disappointment.

And I kind of understand it. He mixed an unreleased live gemm from 1979, which is the last gig ever of the original line of the band. He made available as many unreleased songs from the OES tour as he was able, but all this is being shadowed because he dared to butcher Portobello belle in the Alchemy record, leaving it incompleted.

He might be shocked because one thing he thinks he did appropriately is wrong for many fans and not only that but also think this spoil what would had been a perfect box ...

Well, it would had been a perfect box, a 10/10.

With the butchering and strange manipulation of probably the favourite DS record for many fans, leave it in a 8/10.

Which is excellent, yes, but is not perfect, and it would had been so easy to do it perfect...
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