Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email


News: - Make sure you know the Forum Rules and Guidelines

Also check out these related sites:

Author Topic: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!  (Read 106099 times)

OfflineChris W

  • Dire Straits drummer
  • Camerado
  • *
  • i am new on here, be gentle
  • Posts: 344
  • Registered: February 2022
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1410 on: March 15, 2024, 05:28:15 PM »
Yeah, I am STILL playing the instrument. Why would you think not???
The playing sounds exactly the same with or without samples, the sample is just like adding some great EQ

OfflineChris W

  • Dire Straits drummer
  • Camerado
  • *
  • i am new on here, be gentle
  • Posts: 344
  • Registered: February 2022
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1411 on: March 15, 2024, 05:33:32 PM »
This exactly explains the typical process. It's a sweetener, not a cheat or a way to fix badly played, bad sounding drums:

https://youtu.be/XwDxJS7MfAY?si=9rq7g8DIj4c1oK9Q

Offlinedustyvalentino

  • Not Quite The Movie Star
  • Founder
  • THE Sultan of Swing
  • *********
  • Posts: 6815
  • Location: Donkeytown
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1412 on: March 15, 2024, 05:41:47 PM »
You seem to take my opinion as some sort of criticism of your drumming which it absolutely is not, the opposite in fact.

I'd prefer to hear just your drums, as per the Basel bootleg for example.
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OfflineChris W

  • Dire Straits drummer
  • Camerado
  • *
  • i am new on here, be gentle
  • Posts: 344
  • Registered: February 2022
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1413 on: March 15, 2024, 06:50:08 PM »

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Offlinedustyvalentino

  • Not Quite The Movie Star
  • Founder
  • THE Sultan of Swing
  • *********
  • Posts: 6815
  • Location: Donkeytown
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1414 on: March 15, 2024, 08:31:16 PM »

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

Offlinequizzaciously

  • Brother in Arms
  • ********
  • Pavel Fomenkov
  • Posts: 4427
  • Location: Saint Petersburg
  • Registered: April 2016
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1415 on: March 15, 2024, 09:05:09 PM »

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

I had a professor in university who refused to listen to recorded music because "we don't listen to music with our ears pointed at sound sources like microphones". The guy only visited unplugged classic music performances. I'm dead serious.

To somebody like him all recorded music is fakery ;D I mean fakery in music is a big subject, in this case I think it's more or less a little enhancement of a live sound. They didn't have a week to move microphones Guy Fletcher style, you see! :lol

OfflinePeter1981

  • Camerado
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Registered: September 2017
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1416 on: March 16, 2024, 02:10:14 AM »
Oh come on, it isn’t fakery. It’s got everything to do with the recording/mic placement of an instrument, nothing with altering what’s being played.
I am a producer and mixer and especially with live recordings this happens all the time. I do it all the time. Mostly just because there’s to much bleed from other instruments and the snare sample sounds dry, so you can make the overall mix less ambient. Turn the overheads down in the process as well.
I have to say, listening to Ahead of the game, it sounds to me there’s also a snare sample added there. I’m pretty sure I’m hearing a slightly different sounding snare in the overhead mics than the close snare sounds.
Sound good though, so who cares?
For what it’s worth, On the night sounds great as well. Slick, not pure; true. But it does spark a certain special emotion. To me, at least. So all good in my book. Triggered samples or not, whatever!
On the subject; I grew up with that record, so thanks you Chris W!



To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2024, 02:46:41 AM by Peter1981 »

OfflineBanjo99uk

  • Romeo
  • *****
  • Posts: 1117
  • Registered: July 2009
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1417 on: March 16, 2024, 02:45:54 AM »

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

I had a professor in university who refused to listen to recorded music because "we don't listen to music with our ears pointed at sound sources like microphones". The guy only visited unplugged classic music performances. I'm dead serious.

To somebody like him all recorded music is fakery ;D I mean fakery in music is a big subject, in this case I think it's more or less a little enhancement of a live sound. They didn't have a week to move microphones Guy Fletcher style, you see! :lol
My Dad used to tell me that if a singer used a microphone he couldn’t sing properly. Horses for courses. He also said if you couldn’t whistle the melody it wasn’t a song. Very old school, needless to say he thought MK was utter shite.

Offlinedustyvalentino

  • Not Quite The Movie Star
  • Founder
  • THE Sultan of Swing
  • *********
  • Posts: 6815
  • Location: Donkeytown
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1418 on: March 16, 2024, 08:43:29 AM »

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

I had a professor in university who refused to listen to recorded music because "we don't listen to music with our ears pointed at sound sources like microphones". The guy only visited unplugged classic music performances. I'm dead serious.

To somebody like him all recorded music is fakery ;D I mean fakery in music is a big subject, in this case I think it's more or less a little enhancement of a live sound. They didn't have a week to move microphones Guy Fletcher style, you see! :lol
My Dad used to tell me that if a singer used a microphone he couldn’t sing properly. Horses for courses. He also said if you couldn’t whistle the melody it wasn’t a song. Very old school, needless to say he thought MK was utter shite.

Lol

"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OfflineChris W

  • Dire Straits drummer
  • Camerado
  • *
  • i am new on here, be gentle
  • Posts: 344
  • Registered: February 2022
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1419 on: March 16, 2024, 09:13:51 AM »


But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

They aren't fake drums they are drum samples. You can think it's fakery if you like, but it's been standard practice on many records since the early 1980's. And the player still has to play to the best of their ability.

Offlinedustyvalentino

  • Not Quite The Movie Star
  • Founder
  • THE Sultan of Swing
  • *********
  • Posts: 6815
  • Location: Donkeytown
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1420 on: March 16, 2024, 09:30:47 AM »


But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

They aren't fake drums they are drum samples. You can think it's fakery if you like, but it's been standard practice on many records since the early 1980's. And the player still has to play to the best of their ability.

Again, I offer no criticism of your playing which is obviously top drawer. If you have the inclination you can trawl through my posts over the last 15 years and I’m confident you won’t find anything to the contrary. What I’m saying is I would rather hear just your playing, without the samples, as per the various bootlegs and presumably the added OTN tracks.
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

Offlinequizzaciously

  • Brother in Arms
  • ********
  • Pavel Fomenkov
  • Posts: 4427
  • Location: Saint Petersburg
  • Registered: April 2016
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1421 on: March 16, 2024, 11:14:22 AM »

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

I had a professor in university who refused to listen to recorded music because "we don't listen to music with our ears pointed at sound sources like microphones". The guy only visited unplugged classic music performances. I'm dead serious.

To somebody like him all recorded music is fakery ;D I mean fakery in music is a big subject, in this case I think it's more or less a little enhancement of a live sound. They didn't have a week to move microphones Guy Fletcher style, you see! :lol
My Dad used to tell me that if a singer used a microphone he couldn’t sing properly. Horses for courses. He also said if you couldn’t whistle the melody it wasn’t a song. Very old school, needless to say he thought MK was utter shite.

Lol

Jokes aside, I agree with Banjo99uk's Dad, especially in whistling the melody department. I'm very old school and seem to have been born in the wrong country and at the wrong time, and I'm constantly going around whistling old show tunes, jazz standards and arias from operas. As you can guess, rarely when I do whistle Mark's songs as they are extremely economical with great melodies, so nothing in these words I find wrong. Even Mark himself admitted he's not a good melody writer.

OfflineMatchstickman

  • Camerado
  • ***
  • i am new on here, be gentle
  • Posts: 186
  • Registered: November 2023
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1422 on: March 16, 2024, 05:17:34 PM »
What I don't understand from all of this, is why the drums sound thinner on the new box tracks than on the Basel TV recording  :think

Did Guy deliberately tone them down?

Offlinejbaent

  • Honorary Knopfler fans- Editor
  • Mark F. Knopfler
  • **********
  • I'm never happy unless I've sth to complain about.
  • Posts: 13458
  • Location: Tambourine Land
  • Registered: August 2008
    • My book about Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1423 on: March 16, 2024, 05:53:59 PM »
What I don't understand from all of this, is why the drums sound thinner on the new box tracks than on the Basel TV recording  :think

Did Guy deliberately tone them down?

From what I understand, they just mixed the new tracks, and the old ones from the OTN release were very processed at the time.

I prefer the new ones, for me they are closest to the real thing.
You might get lucky, now and then

My book about Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Jbaent

Offlineolazabalrok

  • Camerado
  • ***
  • don't burn the pig
  • Posts: 121
  • Registered: September 2009
Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1424 on: March 17, 2024, 01:07:57 AM »
Just go back about 90 pages of this thread and the new mixes are criticized by me and couple of others from the first moments of ITILYTM. Just seems there maybe wasn’t enough time to finish the mixes and they shouldn’t have been mixed by Guy in the first place.

Guy claims that the new mixes were mixed to sound close to same as the originals which is absolutely not the case. Again my opinion is the new mixes are simply hideous and I haven’t really listened them again because they are not pleasing to listen. All the energy is lost and they sound as depressive as the tour overall seems to have been. Nothing like the punch in the On The Night or Encores mix.

At the time DS was still trying to be somewhat a rock act and they should’ve got someone to mix the new tracks that knows how to do rock.

 

© 2024 amarkintime.org
This is an unofficial website dedicated to Mark Knopfler developed and maintained by fans.
Top banner design by Dutchessy.
This theme is based on the SMF theme Carbonate by Bloc.
SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Page created in 0.04 seconds with 39 queries.