Brothers in arms 40th anniversary edition

[the visitor]

This is the go to link for interview with Terry where he explains it all

https://m.soundcloud.com/simon-vine-podcaster/terry-williams-interview-march

[nv1]

Nice, thank you. So he remembers the reason for Terry leaving were "health issues", interesting. 

Also Mark obviously didn't make him feel as a replacement but started it all again.

He doesn't look and sound like a 66y old. Cool guy.

LE

Interestingly Terry Williams had something different to say... He basically said he wasn't happy with his playing on the record six weeks in after listening to some songs. Because he felt that the click tracks they were using hindered his natural feel. His disappointment rubbed off on Mark and they let him go.

Neil Dorfsman had something else to say though, that he felt the drums were an issue. And took it to himself to tell Terry that his parts weren't there yet and sent him home... Oddly enough, Neil does not remember a click track either.

Conflicting information as you can tell. So who knows??

By the way, Terry's whole drum fills were left intact from his drum take while Omar did a straight beat.

Interesting last line. Do you mean just for the drum solo part at the start of MFN or throughout the whole song? So for example at 2'49 there is a fill before the line about "the little f...." as well as various other fills.

Yup, Terry played the while intro drum part, plus the tom-tom fills you hear for the rest of that song including the one you mentioned. Both Neil Dorfsman and Terry Williams confirmed so in interviews. So Omar re-played the kick, snare, hi-hat and cymbals to the track... Hope that helps.

[Mossguitar]

Are you shure that the fills are Terry’s? Doesn’t Omar say that they were his in the interview?

[nv1]

Are you shure that the fills are Terry’s? Doesn’t Omar say that they were his in the interview?

Pretty sure they are Terry's. I listened to the tom-tom fills in the main song and the sound is identical to the tom-toms you hear in the intro. Plus interviews with Neil and Terry themselves.

[mariosboss]

Are you shure that the fills are Terry’s? Doesn’t Omar say that they were his in the interview?

Pretty sure they are Terry's. I listened to the tom-tom fills in the main song and the sound is identical to the tom-toms you hear in the intro. Plus interviews with Neil and Terry themselves.

DEARY DEARY ME. Many of you hardcore fans have a lot to answer for (see below.)

I'm afraid many of you will be shaking your head at this as it's out of your respective comfort zones...

Firstly regarding drum parts - I'm not sure. Keeping the intro is one thing but then going through the track and taking bits off of the original drum track is another thing altogether, bearing in mind this was back in the 80's. You can easily cut and paste bits and pieces in modern times on DAW. But back in the 80's... come on....

HOWEVER - that interview SOURCE from above i've mentioned before on this forum but no one could answer or bothered answering my post. MY WORD. It is when Terry Williams was just about to reveal the reason why Hal Lindes was axed from the band around 1984-85, but that part/answer was edited out. So Terry said something like:  "poor old Hal, I don't  know if I should say this...." Then BANG the rest of the answer was edited out. I mention this because when I brought this up a few years ago most fans on this forum just ignored the reason why / couldn't be bothered to find out. Maybe they want to cover up certain members of the band?  So what is the answer then? OR are you going to look to Ed Bicknel for answers?

[dustyvalentino]

I think perhaps you are confusing members "ignoring" this, and just not knowing, and with no way to find out?

Ed eventually kindly explained all.

https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=8977.msg186414#msg186414

[Matchstickman]

Keeping Terry's fills...? 

The drumming style of the track post-intro is clearly different from the bombastic opening - very slick.

But if you insist, I may have to put the track on and compare the tom-tom sounds or whatever you are on about

[olazabalrok]

The basic groove is going through the track and the tom fills are on top of that so they are clearly from a different take. Are they by Terry? No idea.

[Mossguitar]

I listened to the interview with Omar once more, and he says that he played the fills. And since he actually was the there, I take that as a fact.

[2manyguitars]

Are you shure that the fills are Terry’s? Doesn’t Omar say that they were his in the interview?

Pretty sure they are Terry's. I listened to the tom-tom fills in the main song and the sound is identical to the tom-toms you hear in the intro. Plus interviews with Neil and Terry themselves.

DEARY DEARY ME. Many of you hardcore fans have a lot to answer for (see below.)

I'm afraid many of you will be shaking your head at this as it's out of your respective comfort zones...

Firstly regarding drum parts - I'm not sure. Keeping the intro is one thing but then going through the track and taking bits off of the original drum track is another thing altogether, bearing in mind this was back in the 80's. You can easily cut and paste bits and pieces in modern times on DAW. But back in the 80's... come on....

HOWEVER - that interview SOURCE from above i've mentioned before on this forum but no one could answer or bothered answering my post. MY WORD. It is when Terry Williams was just about to reveal the reason why Hal Lindes was axed from the band around 1984-85, but that part/answer was edited out. So Terry said something like:  "poor old Hal, I don't  know if I should say this...." Then BANG the rest of the answer was edited out. I mention this because when I brought this up a few years ago most fans on this forum just ignored the reason why / couldn't be bothered to find out. Maybe they want to cover up certain members of the band?  So what is the answer then? OR are you going to look to Ed Bicknel for answers?

Drums were separated and recorded onto different tracks using careful mic positioning, noise gates, and gated reverb. It wouldn't be hard to keep just the tom fills if that's what they wanted.

[ds1984]

I listened to the interview with Omar once more, and he says that he played the fills. And since he actually was the there, I take that as a fact.

Logical bias?

I mean of course Omar played but there are two drums multichannel recorded

So the person you can rely on is more Neil Dorfsman who DID the mix and choosed which ones to keep.

[Mossguitar]

I listened to the interview with Omar once more, and he says that he played the fills. And since he actually was the there, I take that as a fact.

Logical bias?

I mean of course Omar played but there are two drums multichannel recorded

So the person you can rely on is more Neil Dorfsman who DID the mix and choosed which ones to keep.

Yes, I listened to the song once again, and you could absolutely be right. What has Neil Dorfsman said in interviews? Terry? Others? How about drummers here on the forum? Chris? Others? What ‘s plausible?

[Ingrained]

Nice, thank you. So he remembers the reason for Terry leaving were "health issues", interesting. 

Also Mark obviously didn't make him feel as a replacement but started it all again.

He doesn't look and sound like a 66y old. Cool guy.

LE

Interestingly Terry Williams had something different to say... He basically said he wasn't happy with his playing on the record six weeks in after listening to some songs. Because he felt that the click tracks they were using hindered his natural feel. His disappointment rubbed off on Mark and they let him go.

Neil Dorfsman had something else to say though, that he felt the drums were an issue. And took it to himself to tell Terry that his parts weren't there yet and sent him home... Oddly enough, Neil does not remember a click track either.

Conflicting information as you can tell. So who knows??

By the way, Terry's whole drum fills were left intact from his drum take while Omar did a straight beat.

Interesting last line. Do you mean just for the drum solo part at the start of MFN or throughout the whole song? So for example at 2'49 there is a fill before the line about "the little f...." as well as various other fills.

Yup, Terry played the while intro drum part, plus the tom-tom fills you hear for the rest of that song including the one you mentioned. Both Neil Dorfsman and Terry Williams confirmed so in interviews. So Omar re-played the kick, snare, hi-hat and cymbals to the track... Hope that helps.

Have you got a link to the source saying Terry's toms are used in the main part of the song?

[nv1]

I listened to the interview with Omar once more, and he says that he played the fills. And since he actually was the there, I take that as a fact.

Well, Terry said the fills are his here: https://archive.org/details/modern-drummer-issue-79/page/n63/mode/2up?q=dire+straits

And Neil Dorfsman here: https://www.mixonline.com/recording/classic-tracks/classic-tracks-dire-straits-money-nothing-372507

Both were there, and it's two versus one... So they are more likely to be Terry's.

[nv1]

Are you shure that the fills are Terry’s? Doesn’t Omar say that they were his in the interview?

Pretty sure they are Terry's. I listened to the tom-tom fills in the main song and the sound is identical to the tom-toms you hear in the intro. Plus interviews with Neil and Terry themselves.

DEARY DEARY ME. Many of you hardcore fans have a lot to answer for (see below.)

I'm afraid many of you will be shaking your head at this as it's out of your respective comfort zones...

Firstly regarding drum parts - I'm not sure. Keeping the intro is one thing but then going through the track and taking bits off of the original drum track is another thing altogether, bearing in mind this was back in the 80's. You can easily cut and paste bits and pieces in modern times on DAW. But back in the 80's... come on....

HOWEVER - that interview SOURCE from above i've mentioned before on this forum but no one could answer or bothered answering my post. MY WORD. It is when Terry Williams was just about to reveal the reason why Hal Lindes was axed from the band around 1984-85, but that part/answer was edited out. So Terry said something like:  "poor old Hal, I don't  know if I should say this...." Then BANG the rest of the answer was edited out. I mention this because when I brought this up a few years ago most fans on this forum just ignored the reason why / couldn't be bothered to find out. Maybe they want to cover up certain members of the band?  So what is the answer then? OR are you going to look to Ed Bicknel for answers?

To be fair, though, 80s technology was getting to that point where you could fly in bits and pieces of drums with samplers and stuff, and computers were in its infancy... So not totally inconceivable.

In the case of "Money For Nothing", it was basically a case of erasing techniques on the 24-track...

They would have had a click track to start with... And Terry played a complete drum pass to that.
Of Terry's take, the introduction was left completely intact... For the main track, though, his parts were erased from the multitrack (kick, snare, cymbals) except for the tom-tom fills throughout... The click track would have also been kept in, as was the rest of the instruments.
Thus, when Omar came in, he would have played to the click, whatever was left of Terry's drums and the main track... It's all possible because of a click track and recording technology of that time. Hope that clarifies it.