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Author Topic: A Modern Tribute to Dire Straits – AI Creates an Original Track with Knopfler’s  (Read 10614 times)

OfflineEddie Fox

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No, the correct analogy in this case is the Tour de France looking to replacing riders with robots on bikes.
I'm surprised so many are excusing this. Tech people are looking to develop and perfect song creation, in this case in the style of MarkKnopfler, to replace future Mark Knopflers to save money, and a whole bunch of die hard Mark Knopfler fans are ok with it?

That’s because I think humans will always create better songs.
I am the Iron Fist. Protector of K'un-Lun. Sworn enemy of the Hand.

OfflineEddie Fox

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But AI to do its job need to have a preexisting Mark Knopfler, AI can not create Mark Knopfler - well at current time.


Sadly you are wrong. Spotify is already using 100% AI created music to populate its most popular playlists. This is the end game of streaming. To replace human created music because it's too expensive. The next 'Mark Knopfler' won't ever be heard, because he'll be replaced on streaming by hours of AI created music.

Being quite honest, today’s music is garbage, hip hop and rap dominate the charts, people in general are too lazy to appreciate music that makes them think too much or even think at all, it’s already a huge mess. As long as there’s live music real musicians will always be safe though. In my opinion, at least at this point, electronic music, DJs, raves and so on are much more damaging than AI.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2025, 03:35:35 AM by Eddie Fox »
I am the Iron Fist. Protector of K'un-Lun. Sworn enemy of the Hand.

Offlinedustyvalentino

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But AI to do its job need to have a preexisting Mark Knopfler, AI can not create Mark Knopfler - well at current time.


Sadly you are wrong. Spotify is already using 100% AI created music to populate its most popular playlists. This is the end game of streaming. To replace human created music because it's too expensive. The next 'Mark Knopfler' won't ever be heard, because he'll be replaced on streaming by hours of AI created music.

Correct

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jul/14/an-ai-generated-band-got-1m-plays-on-spotify-now-music-insiders-say-listeners-should-be-warned
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OfflineKnopfleRick

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AI music will never be an option for me because there is no heart and soul.
This is all the heaven we've got, right here where we are in our Shangri-La.

Offline2manyguitars

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    • Here some occasionally resonable music..
AI music will never be an option for me because there is no heart and soul.

That's a great sentiment, but very very soon you won't be able to tell the difference between the two unless told....

OnlineChris W

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As long as there’s live music real musicians will always be safe though. In my opinion, at least at this point, electronic music, DJs, raves and so on are much more damaging than AI.

Man, sorry but you need to wake up.
How does any artist play live without exposure from online? Whether it's Youtube, streaming services. If you can't get noticed because the scene is swamped by AI music, you'll never attract anyone to your gigs.
Also, how do you pay your band, pay for transport, hotels, road crew etc?
You don't wake up one day and decide to gig. You need to put a band together, rehearse. It all costs money, and recorded music was one important way to raise cash to pay for the sustainability of your career.
You think today's music is all about rap and DJ's, but that's because all you are offered by technology is that kind of music. Proving that the kind of music you value is already being hidden from you.

OnlineElin N

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I am no AI expert so please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I learned then no, you can not create MK music without having a MK first. Bots use already excicting material and use probability to create something "new". That is why you now have huge "data training centers", for bots to "learn" from. That is why Meta now use all our information, private and open, they need material for the bots to "learn" from. If a bot train on 100 sources and 98 of them use the word "year" after the words "happy new", then the bots will use that answer too. This is one of the reasons that I find "but AI is so creative" a poor argument. AI will make things more similar, not more diverse.

I wrote text for a webshop and lost my job to AI. Cheaper for the company, and of course sooo creative. Experience with the products they are selling and personal advice not needed..
I just read that the brand Guess now has used a completly made up person in a commercial. It doesn't matter how beautiful and thin you are; AI does it better.
Tell me one da*n good thing about AI, except making the rich even more rich?  :disbelief
« Last Edit: August 11, 2025, 03:00:54 PM by Elin N »

Offlinermarques821

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Tell me one da*n good thing about AI, except making the rich even more rich?  :disbelief
The people here criticizing AI are the 21st century equivalent of those in the 20th century who preferred to ride horses instead of cars, using candles instead of electricity, wood and fire instead of stoves, etc.

Not knowing "one good thing" about AI is just dangerous. AI is used every single day for diagnosing cancers, tumors and other diseases. It's used in environmental catastrophe prediction and emergency relief, it is used in agriculture by detecting weeds and spraying precision herbicide, it is used in fraud detection in banking and all sorts of cybersecurity measures. I could go on with more examples afor hours, but I guess it's easier and cool to say it's just a tool make the rich even richer

When it comes to arts it gets more complex, yes, but at the end of the day there will always be real-life musicians and you will always have the freedom to choose to listen to them or some AI generated stuff. The same way you can also tell your doctor to not use AI in your exams, as it makes the rich even richer. Up to you.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2025, 04:15:05 PM by rmarques821 »

OfflineEddie Fox

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Tell me one da*n good thing about AI, except making the rich even more rich?  :disbelief
The people here criticizing AI are the 21st century equivalent of those in the 20th century who preferred to ride horses instead of cars, using candles instead of electricity, wood and fire instead of stoves, etc.

Not knowing "one good thing" about AI is just dangerous. AI is used every single day for diagnosing cancers, tumors and other diseases. It's used in environmental catastrophe prediction and emergency relief, it is used in agriculture by detecting weeds and spraying precision herbicide, it is used in fraud detection in banking and all sorts of cybersecurity measures. I could go on with more examples afor hours, but I guess it's easier and cool to say it's just a tool make the rich even richer

When it comes to arts it gets more complex, yes, but at the end of the day there will always be real-life musicians and you will always have the freedom to choose to listen to them or some AI generated stuff. The same way you can also tell your doctor to not use AI in your exams, as it makes the rich even richer. Up to you.

Exactly, it’s inevitable, you either adapt or not. It’s like Dylan going electric or no line judges in tennis. We may discuss if it’s good or bad, right or wrong, but it’s happening either way. As a guitarist I still prefer my amps and pedals but when you see Dan Huff using plugins and recording direct it makes you scratch your head and think.
I am the Iron Fist. Protector of K'un-Lun. Sworn enemy of the Hand.

OnlineElin N

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You got me rmarques, I just love the stone age so much that I want to go back! :smack You know very well what I meant, but chose to quarrel.
Btw, you are welcome to reply again after being unemployed for 11 month because nobody needs you and no company is willing to teach you anything (you're supposed to know everything form day 1). I will probably need to start from scratch, with new school, new loan and even then, no promises of a job.

OfflineRolo

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SORRY - LONG TEXT ALERT

As a person who worked for years generating data to AI models, I will try to write few words about it.

Every AI need to be fed with data.
Almost every concept of AI exists since the 70's. However, the computational power was far from the minimum requirements and a  effective neural-network predictive model started to be really funtional at late 90's / early 2000's.

Music (and arts in general) always had been on the debate when the subject is AI because of the multiple "unpredicted" behavioring (aka human factor).

What happens is that, Music have an importart role into the Generative AI because the machine can learn in every little detail based on this "unpredicted" behavior and apply (escalate) it to other areas such as medicine,  text generation in the style of someone, or who knows, discover who is playing in a ramdom song and check if the credits are corrected. (connex rights)

Now let's play a game.

Lets use our beloved MK as an example.
Every MK song is categorized by many things, per example:
- General aspect of the lyrycs
- Storytelling
- Background (bibliographical)
- Song similarity (comparison)
- Harmony
- "Plagiarism" or Influences (other artists similar songs)
- Voice tone
- Number of words (small words, dialects, big words, slangs...)
- Vocal performance nuance (volume, space, tone, screams...)
- Guitar tone (phrasing, music theory, style, performance, nuance...)
- Groove
- Band members

Every item have a new tree of nodes. Every item is repeated by each band member. Every guitar tone\lick\phrase is compared with similar existing nodes... and so forth.

And each item changed based on wich MK era we are selecting.
We can use(prompt) only the MK from the first 2 DS albums per example.

Let's do an exercise and imagine how we can do a AI version of Eagles's Hotel California sung by Dire Straits in 1979.
If we could back in time and be with the band, as a musical director, on a studio, to work that song. What we gonna do?
Remember that we can travel in time knowing everything until 2025.

Very basic mental exercise:
- We know the groove
- We know the guitar tone
- We know how the lyrycs should work

Now try to categorize every aspect of wich are the DS songs that influenced the singing, licks, grooves... and put it into organized data (would be a LOT of data) and then know how to "talk" with the machine and refine it (More data). You could deliver a relative decent job.

You need data and how to deal with data to have descent AI results if you wanna do complex experiments. And that is the word. Experiment.

AI is a tool and people are discovering the limits of it.
Of course Chris comments are valid and absolutely necessary on how the consuming world runs. However AI unlocks another side of creativity (for good or for worse) that will be possible for everyone.

Classical Music was over because the composers tryed almost everything in terms of harmony and beauty that time. After that came Stravinsky, Messian, Mingus and modern harmony concepts.
It happened with Bepop, Jazz, Rock, Classical...

Speaking about guitar, who would imagine, 20 years ago, a guitar player like Tosin Abasi? Style, Phrasing, Tone, Technology, Concept...
A person who goes for a Jim Campilongo or a Nels Cline concert wants a real experience.

I believe that, in some years, we will live a balance about it.
Until then, many things could appear and the real artist always will find a way to emerge and be noted.

Offlinermarques821

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You got me rmarques, I just love the stone age so much that I want to go back! :smack You know very well what I meant, but chose to quarrel.
Btw, you are welcome to reply again after being unemployed for 11 month because nobody needs you and no company is willing to teach you anything (you're supposed to know everything form day 1). I will probably need to start from scratch, with new school, new loan and even then, no promises of a job.
I didn't choose to quarrel, I just wanted to show that demonizing AI and reducing it to something that "makes the rich get richer", whatever the hell that even means, is nonsensical.

I'm sorry you lost your job but I leave you with a MK quote to lift up your spirits:

"If you can turn negative energy into positive, turn a dire straits situation, excuse the term, into one that is positive, you're not going to go under, you're creating. Like someone who could write a book in prison. The songs are linked in that sense. It wasn't conscious, but I see the Sultans, Les Bouys, the roller skate girl, and Romeo all change disadvantage into advantage. Rather than leave it thay make something with it. I'm not advocating adverse circumstanses, but if they come you have to create from it."

Offlineds1984

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But AI to do its job need to have a preexisting Mark Knopfler, AI can not create Mark Knopfler - well at current time.


Sadly you are wrong. Spotify is already using 100% AI created music to populate its most popular playlists. This is the end game of streaming. To replace human created music because it's too expensive. The next 'Mark Knopfler' won't ever be heard, because he'll be replaced on streaming by hours of AI created music.


No, all these AI streams are just vomiting what they did previously ingratiate. AI does not create, it is only replicating.
Spotify is doing dirty business but people want always to discover new music and without human creating, AI created music will dry fast doing music for elevator.







The haters are those who write shit

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OfflineBrunno Nunes

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I'm having fun with this, sharing it with you, it's at least an exercise of imagination. 😄

https://youtu.be/FLdb3K6Bmoc?si=ioCCwnuewPfrT7EL
« Last Edit: August 12, 2025, 01:55:56 AM by Brunno Nunes »
Let's go down to the waterline!

my blog : https://universodirestraits.blogspot.com

OnlineChris W

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When it comes to arts it gets more complex, yes, but at the end of the day there will always be real-life musicians and you will always have the freedom to choose to listen to them or some AI generated stuff.

Err, none of it is being marked 'AI'. So no, you have no idea what you are listening to.
My point here is that the music scene as a whole supports human artists, if you take away one important income stream then it is much harder for artists to survive. Again, I find it astonishing being labelled a luddite for supporting real musicians on a forum dedicated to Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler. The tech industry controls online. Online is where people now discover music. The tech industry is actively replacing human made music with AI generated music (behind your backs) because it means they never have to pay for the right to use the music - making them more money.

 

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