Mark and the Nylon Strings

[JF]

Never told a soul by John Illsley features Mark on nylon ovation guitar :

[dustyvalentino]

Never told a soul by John Illsley features Mark on nylon ovation guitar :

OK, so it's not the most expensive video ever made, but I wonder how much money was lost on this ego trip.

[Brunno Nunes]

. those first three albums, although there was an "acoustic" element, with the National Steel in Wild West End and Portobello Belle

you can add Water of love and where do you think you're going wich features a proeminent folk guitar

and also Romeo and juliet which have National arpeggios and folk rhtyhm guitar

even TOL and Hand in hand has one !

I didn't add these songs because they don't have a nylon string guitar, and in most of these songs the guitar is the main character, and everything here has steel strings.

[Brunno Nunes]

Never told a soul by John Illsley features Mark on nylon ovation guitar :

Here we have a song that is very much in line with the vibe of what was on the LOG album, a huge influence, the echoes are clear, PI, LOG.

[Brunno Nunes]

I don’t know why, but the nylon strings never seemed to work for me on the OES tour, perhaps because it was largely outside or in such large stadiums, that it lost that intimacy, but I never saw DS tour live in person, only the videos and maybe it didn't record as well (IMO)

Yes, it's a different feeling, especially because he's using a different model of guitar, a Ramirez, and the strings are different, three thinner ones are dark, I believe they're made of a different material and give a different sound.

[dustyvalentino]

the strings are different, three thinner ones are dark, I believe they're made of a different material and give a different sound.

Eh... presumably they're made of nylon? 

[Ingrained]

The Ramirez sounded fantastic live in 92. No recording does it justice.

That's good to hear 

[Ingrained]

I don’t know why, but the nylon strings never seemed to work for me on the OES tour, perhaps because it was largely outside or in such large stadiums, that it lost that intimacy, but I never saw DS tour live in person, only the videos and maybe it didn't record as well (IMO)

Yes, it's a different feeling, especially because he's using a different model of guitar, a Ramirez, and the strings are different, three thinner ones are dark, I believe they're made of a different material and give a different sound.

Thanks Brunno, I only just realised you replied as the font was so small originally.

Listening back now to the various OES tour PI, I think the reason I didn’t initially like it as much as the Chet Atkins is actually, in fairness, really because the Ramirez setup had no delay in the chain (according to the tech guitar sheet), and was a dry signal, but maybe they added reverb on the mixing desk/PA as it was easier to control for the mix and they felt the big stadiums produced there own natural reverb and delay. I know delay and reverb settings tend to change with venue size. I happen to like the delays with the nylon strings. For me, it seemed to have added an another colour and shimmer to the nylon sound. Maybe a bit more magical for me. I’m in no doubt the Ramirez is an amazing guitar, and I meant no disrespect to the luthier. Just that the Chet Atkins guitar (live recordings) had a certain sound of it’s own that I liked. I'm coming round the more honest sound of the OES nylon strung now in it's own way, it's probably more faithful to the studio version as well.

Some prominent points that I hear delay using the Gibson Chet Atkins:

LOG Alchemy - He may have activated the delay just for the solo. That sounds like the Delta Lab DL-4 to me.

At 3m20s
https://youtu.be/nKCpMDpSP8M?si=H8qQeauYV71pcXFx&t=199

The opening notes of R+J solo with the long delay/repeat, sound like the Roland Chorus Echo SRE-555 to me, although quiet. But it may also have a little of the Delta Lab DL-4 additionally giving a shorter delay.

6m35s
https://youtu.be/cIZ_tHZJjEs?si=Mf-at-a1lfvYB4XN&t=395

I think I hear the Delta Lab DL-4 on Private Investigations Alchemy as well, with a quiet slapback or an even shorter repeat, giving a slight shimmer. The short delay almost sounds like a reverb but has more of a slight slap to me. And here at Wembley:

Private Investigations Wembley 85
At 1m50s
https://youtu.be/xmLNKATlwJw?si=6vkXH-O692haO2Uw&t=107

String clicks at 3m07s
https://youtu.be/xmLNKATlwJw?si=Z6xteQMOP8sT2HcP&t=186

I may have the delays mixed up or the wrong way around but I think the Delta Lab DL-4 would have struggled with the long R+J repeat. He may of course have had some reverb as well as delays with the Gibson Chet Atkins.

Hopefully I’ve not taken the thread “off subject” of the nylon strings but I feel the FX/delays also played a role in the difference of the nylon sound (live) in the DS days.

I would love to see the guitar tech sheet for the LOG tour.

[Ingrained]

Second thoughts, maybe Private Investigations was always just some reverb during LOG/BIA tours.

[wayaman]

Never told a soul by John Illsley features Mark on nylon ovation guitar :

OK, so it's not the most expensive video ever made, but I wonder how much money was lost on this ego trip.

It was a very nice record.

[dustyvalentino]

I haven’t listened to the album and never will. And if there wasn’t a DS connection you would never have listened to it either. That track is absolute garbage.

[wayaman]

I haven’t listened to the album and never will. And if there wasn’t a DS connection you would never have listened to it either. That track is absolute garbage.

Of course nobody would had listened to it if it wasn't by the DS connection, but the record has good songs on it. I totally disagree with "Never Told a Soul" being garbage, actually the contrary, with great melody, great guitar playing and a nice atmosphere.

It's not a record to say, hey, this man has a promising career, but it's a nice try with good songs to be proud of (John). If we were talking about the next one, "Glass", I would agree with you, but "Never Told a Soul" is quite good for me.

[Robson]

"Of course nobody would had listened to it if it wasn't by the DS connection...

Why not? To know something, you have to listen:)

[wayaman]

"Of course nobody would had listened to it if it wasn't by the DS connection...

Why not? To know something, you have to listen:)

Because nobody would had paid attention to an unknown bassist called John Illsley, and being a good record, it wouldn' be a success on radios or tv by itself.

[Robson]

"Of course nobody would had listened to it if it wasn't by the DS connection...

Why not? To know something, you have to listen:)

Because nobody would had paid attention to an unknown bassist called John Illsley, and being a good record, it wouldn' be a success on radios or tv by itself.

I'm not talking about success, but about the desire to listen to different kinds of music. And the need to explore it. Of course, I'm talking about myself:)