A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: herlock on August 30, 2023, 07:10:27 PM
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Alan Clark has just announced these very sad news on FB.
Meanwhile Jack's family has asked to removed all posts about Jack on social media...
Can't believe it... 😭 RIP Jack...
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RIP Jack🖤
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Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
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I'm so sad to learn that :'(
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Was friends with him on Facebook. Actually had a chat with him once and asked about the famous Live Aid coat and sunglasses. He said he still had the coat but the sunglasses were long gone. Always came across as a decent man with a good sense of humour. Very sad news indeed. RIP Jack.
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RIP Jack....
Always love the way JS called MK a 'fu@!ing animal' on the Two Young lovers riff when MK had broken a nail and was insistent on biting it off!! Aus 1986
https://youtu.be/swiXQHJRyX0?feature=shared
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So sorry to hear that Jack Sonni has died. RIP Jack.
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:(
Always smiling and joy.
RIP
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What happened? Sorry, i do not have Facebook. Was Jack not family with Guy??
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Sad to hear. He'd be 69 this year. A memorable touring member at the peak of DS.
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https://www.musicalnews.com/2023/08/30/addio-a-jack-sonni-chitarrista-nei-dire-straits-di-brothers-in-arms/
First article i found on internet.
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What happened? Sorry, i do not have Facebook. Was Jack not family with Guy??
I believe he is Guy’s wife Laurie’s cousin.
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It was a shame nothing happened with Jack's DS book. He was a great writer. Would have loved to read his memoirs.
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It is with great regret that I learned through Alan Clark's social network that Jack Sonni left for the heavenly abode of the rock gods.
I still can't believe it, Jack Sonni was a milestone in Dire Straits shows when they were at the height of their trajectory, their dances on stage, the joy of living a dream was something he brought with him, just watch any performance of him in Dire Straits, it was contagious.
I had the opportunity to meet him in person when he came to Brazil with Dire Straits Legacy, he was exactly what I expected, that high-spirited energy that he had and that we see in his performances with the DS was something remarkable for those who lived with him with him, I have no doubt. I will forever cherish the opportunity to watch him live and to be able to talk a little with one of my music heroes, a true gentleman, very kind, always with a smile on your face, he had the genuine spirit of Rock and Roll, it gave Dire Straits gave exactly what was asked for at that historic moment, nothing was by chance, it's a pity that the dream ended, but it is eternal in our memories.
RIP Jack Sonni, thank you for everything, you will be immortal for all Dire Straits fans. :'(
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I saw Caiti Sonni's post asking to remove all posts on social media, but at the same time Joop de Korte and Alan Clark posted the info
As a DS fan, I would like to share this very sad news on my blog, but I don't want to hurt anyone...
RIP Jack
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It's a bit strange request/demand, isn't it? Especially since Jack was a very public guy who loved social media interaction and not exactly shied away from attention. I understand that his family want to be left in peace, and that people don't PM them or post in his family's FB feeds. But that people can't express their sadness or condolences in their own FB feeds or on social media in general? That's too much to ask.
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Very sad news to hear about Jack, he was a great sideman for Mark on the stage, and i loved his energy.
R.I.P.
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It's a bit strange request/demand, isn't it? Especially since Jack was a very public guy who loved social media interaction and not exactly shied away from attention. I understand that his family want to be left in peace, and that people don't PM them or post in his family's FB feeds. But that people can't express their sadness or condolences in their own FB feeds or on social media in general? That's too much to ask.
I dunno, It's strange to me to see Alan sharing this news like this, to be honest. Why Alan? There are a million ways to announce it, and it doesn't need to be this urgent. So I understand Jack's estate never wants additional attention exactly as the events are taking place, hence the request to take down the news.
This is called privacy.
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It's a bit strange request/demand, isn't it? Especially since Jack was a very public guy who loved social media interaction and not exactly shied away from attention. I understand that his family want to be left in peace, and that people don't PM them or post in his family's FB feeds. But that people can't express their sadness or condolences in their own FB feeds or on social media in general? That's too much to ask.
I dunno, It's strange to me to see Alan sharing this news like this, to be honest. Why Alan? There are a million ways to announce it, and it doesn't need to be this urgent. So I understand Jack's estate never wants additional attention exactly as the events are taking place, hence the request to take down the news.
This is called privacy.
Why Alan? Apart from the DS work, they were also together for quite some time in Dire Straits Legacy. They were colleagues and friends. There is nothing unusual about mentioning that someone close, especially a well-known and loved musician, has passed away.
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It's a bit strange request/demand, isn't it? Especially since Jack was a very public guy who loved social media interaction and not exactly shied away from attention. I understand that his family want to be left in peace, and that people don't PM them or post in his family's FB feeds. But that people can't express their sadness or condolences in their own FB feeds or on social media in general? That's too much to ask.
I dunno, It's strange to me to see Alan sharing this news like this, to be honest. Why Alan? There are a million ways to announce it, and it doesn't need to be this urgent. So I understand Jack's estate never wants additional attention exactly as the events are taking place, hence the request to take down the news.
This is called privacy.
Why Alan? Apart from the DS work, they were also together for quite some time in Dire Straits Legacy. They were colleagues and friends. There is nothing unusual about mentioning that someone close, especially a well-known and loved musician, has passed away.
Yes, I get it, but what about the family's request? Were there any talks between Alan and Jack's family members about this? Anyway, I'm just addressing this duality here, In no way I'm diminishing someone's friendship or the sadness of news of Jack's passing, please don't get me wrong.
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Guy replied short on his forum. I wonder if MK wil say something in public on his website but i doubt it.
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Guy replied short on his forum. I wonder if MK wil say something in public on his website but i doubt it.
It's actually quite astonishing, that by sharing Caiti Sonni's wishes people actually do a disservice to the wishes conveyed in the message itself. Obviously, Mark is not going to share anything in this situation and the best way is to stay silent until everything is confirmed and the family feel less distressed by additional attention from fans.
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Guy replied short on his forum. I wonder if MK wil say something in public on his website but i doubt it.
It's actually quite astonishing, that by sharing Caiti Sonni's wishes people actually do a disservice to the wishes conveyed in the message itself. Obviously, Mark is not going to share anything in this situation and the best way is to stay silent until everything is confirmed and the family feel less distressed by additional attention from fans.
With that said, it doesn't matter anyway cause at this point pretty much everybody knows that happened thanks to Alan Clark. I understand being an emotional and open person with the best intentions towards people, but sometimes one should think twice before posting something. It reminds me of news outlets posting obituaries before the person in question has died. So I don't think deleting messages will help at this point, the news was spread.
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If Alan was the first to break the news, he really did nothing wrong. A natural reaction from anyone in that situation. Besides, look at the touring schedule for Dire Straits Legacy: https://www.dslegacy.com/dsllive-tour/ About 25 dates before Christmas. Alan and DSL would have to let people know soon anyway.
The genie is out of the bottle now anyway, and plenty of tabloids have picked up on the story.
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The official DSL Instagram account posted the news one hour ago (approx. 3PM CET) ...
And of course the rotten tabloids are posting articles with photos of Jack Sonni and of Phil Palmer, even in the same article :smack
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Some interesting stuff about how Jack got into the band and Live Aid in this interview. Lots of detail. Starts about 12:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9SE-39kYGg
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The official DSL Instagram account posted the news one hour ago (approx. 3PM CET) ...
And of course the rotten tabloids are posting articles with photos of Jack Sonni and of Phil Palmer, even in the same article :smack
Yes I saw that as well. Basically one British tabloid had a pic of Phil and i'm sure the rest have just gone with that same photo. All it would take is 30 seconds of basic research (for a non Dire Straits fan) and you'd work out who was who. I've tweeted the Daily Fail anyway. Hopefully they along with others will rectify asap.
RIP to Jack, my favourite member (along with Hal Lindes) of Dire Straits. An extremely sad couple of days... condolences to his friends and family... i'm sure he has reunited with his daughter in spirit :'(
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12465763/amp/The-Dire-Straits-legend-Jack-Sonni-died.html
Seems he was having healthproblems.... He was always having fun, watching him on stage....
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So sorry to hear this. Jack has always put a smile on my face when he was on stage. May he Rest in Peace.
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Why on any level, whould it help the grief to keep things a secret? Why turn an illness into something secret? I admire the way the family handled the death of the Norwegian princess' ex-husband some years back. They could have said he had a heart-attack or something, but openly told that he chose to end things himself. I am NOT suggesting that this happened in Jacks case!! I'm just saying that being open and let people show their love probably helps the ones who are grieving too (and it prevents speculations).
I don't read gossip -pages, don't follow "influencers", and hardly watch any reality-series. I don't think people should share absolutely eveything on social media. I do believe in openness and dialogue. To share emotions. We are all humans
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Why on any level, whould it help the grief to keep things a secret? Why turn an illness into something secret? I admire the way the family handled the death of the Norwegian princess' ex-husband some years back. They could have said he had a heart-attack or something, but openly told that he chose to end things himself. I am NOT suggesting that this happened in Jacks case!! I'm just saying that being open and let people show their love probably helps the ones who are grieving too (and it prevents speculations).
I don't read gossip -pages, don't follow "influencers", and hardly watch any reality-series. I don't think people should share absolutely eveything on social media. I do believe in openness and dialogue. To share emotions. We are all humans
The more popular you are, the more should you care about privacy. Grief for a normal human being isn't the same as for someone who has any popularity at all, even a relatively humble one like Jack's. He wasn't from the royal family, but still.
Usually, the public news of famous people's deaths arrives after a few days, exactly for families to survive the initial shock. Getting a bunch of messages, calls, emails, journalists, and possible scammers would be too much to handle.
Imho, if a person never declared it in the first place that any information about his live should be public, it should be kept secret by default.
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And the sooner the family says something in public, the sooner they will be left alone.
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'A sad farewell to our old friend Jack Sonni, whom I met when he was working at Rudy’s Music Stop on 48th St.
Jack was a genuine guitar enthusiast who loved to play, jam, and talk guitars and amps all day. He joined us on tour during the Brothers in Arms era and took to life on the road with the band like a fish to water.
Jack made friends wherever he went and will be missed by his many pals worldwide. Our thoughts are with his family at this time.'
- MK
https://www.facebook.com/OfficialMarkKnopflerNews/posts/pfbid026krAN5xmNeLZ7GvAp6o16ouFqou3hrr3yFN1Xd9hQa6xVhcygPg7k74kAng7X86Jl
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OMG. Very sad news. Jack Sonni was a really cool guy on stage, good guitarplayer with Mark and he has a cool type of humor and always a positive aura. RIP Jack. Immortal is the guitar-duel with Mark on the Sydney-gig in 1986.
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Although I had seen the posts by Alan Clark and Joop de Korte, I respected Jack's family's request until today, when the announcement of Jack's death was made official, notably by a publication a quarter of an hour ago from Mark Knopfler.
A few words about the musician known as "the other guitarist in Dire Straits":
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/jack-sonni-est-decede/
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Is it just me or is Mark's tribute not the best eulogy he's written, which is especially ungrateful to someone who was a friend and gave up his career to go on tour with him. He's given better tributes to folk who've just recorded a track with him in the studio.
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Is it just me or is Mark's tribute not the best eulogy he's written, which is especially ungrateful to someone who was a friend and gave up his career to go on tour with him. He's given better tributes to folk who've just recorded a track with him in the studio.
I bet Mark has a thousand JS stories to share, but can't because he doesn't have a podcast, social media or a book. I think all of Mark's eulogies are short, not deep, and basic, but sort of accomplish the goal of a short message of support at the same time. I don't know if I want to read an article or a short message like this from MK.
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Very sad news.
Jack was perhaps the most rock and roll member of Dire Straits and this infectious energy could be heard throughout any recording you listen to from the BIA tour. He was also given freedom by MK to provide some of the most improvised parts of Dire Straits live concerts across all tours; take the solo on Wild West End for instance. MK clearly respected Jack and he was perhaps the best matched tour guitarist. Even when he wasn't present, like at Mandela 88 they had to get Clapton to fill his shoes... some compliment.
We should also remember that Jack was the first member of the band to give us any real direct memoirs of Dire Straits at its peak. He wrote and did a podcast of the Live Aid show which was simply brilliant, and this set the footing for others, including John years later to publish his memories.
Jack was also very approachable. I'd been in dialogue with him earlier this year when he was searching out some recordings of Skateaway in preparation for the DSL legacy gigs this summer. During that brief exchange he recounted a story of jamming with Clapton prior to the Decwmebr 1985 shows. A sound bloke.
RIP Jack Sonni : your energy will be missed
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On the family request, for all we know the family maybe hadn’t had a chance to let all family members know Jack had died when Alan posted and that’s why they asked people not to post.
On the MK statement, it’s fine would have been hypocritical for MK to eulogise about someone he ghosted and last spoke to 35 years ago.
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On the family request, for all we know the family maybe hadn’t had a chance to let all family members know Jack had died when Alan posted and that’s why they asked people not to post.
On the MK statement, it’s fine would have been hypocritical for MK to eulogise about someone he ghosted and last spoke to 35 years ago.
I think if anything happens, not without reason. Same with the John Suhr controversy, you think that Mark is just ridiculous and arrogant, but it seems to me like a classic clash of egos and/or incompatible characters. Marriages break down, friendships get over, siblings stop talking, this stuff is normal and happens all the time.
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On the family request, for all we know the family maybe hadn’t had a chance to let all family members know Jack had died when Alan posted and that’s why they asked people not to post.
On the MK statement, it’s fine would have been hypocritical for MK to eulogise about someone he ghosted and last spoke to 35 years ago.
I think if anything happens, not without reason. Same with the John Suhr controversy, you think that Mark is just ridiculous and arrogant, but it seems to me like a classic clash of egos and/or incompatible characters. Marriages break down, friendships get over, siblings stop talking, this stuff is normal and happens all the time.
Absolutely, two sides to every story and we have only heard one, I just think it wouldn’t have been right for MK to come out sounding like they were best buddies.
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What is also sad is just how often Mark is writing about people who have passed away!! We seem to be loosing more and more great musicians as they all get older. Isn't Jack the first member of the Dire Straits "family" to have died?
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What is also sad is just how often Mark is writing about people who have passed away!! We seem to be loosing more and more great musicians as they all get older. Isn't Jack the first member of the Dire Straits "family" to have died?
Yes, Jack is the first one, at least of all the DS touring members, as some musicians that played with them died before, like Jeff Porcaro, Brecker and I think some others that can remember now. But for me those are not DS musicians but hired guns.
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If you haven't already, please listen to this, Jack telling the story of his time in DS in his own words.
https://art19.com/shows/the-leisure-class/episodes/5e6debf9-de14-494f-b3e4-8505a74122c6
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If you haven't already, please listen to this, Jack telling the story of his time in DS in his own words.
https://art19.com/shows/the-leisure-class/episodes/5e6debf9-de14-494f-b3e4-8505a74122c6 (https://art19.com/shows/the-leisure-class/episodes/5e6debf9-de14-494f-b3e4-8505a74122c6)
Part 2 is much more interesting: https://art19.com/shows/the-leisure-class/episodes/9d9efa6e-dd15-4910-b5b7-fe1cd82111ab
He addresses his and Mark's relationship.
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Yeah, I meant listen to both parts.
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Pretty heart-wrenching to hear Jack describe his last meeting with Mark.
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Indeed.
But then MK mentioned Jack's daughters being born onstage at Mandela.
All very strange.
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Obv Jack wanted more from MK than MK was willing to offer, so the latter tried to burn the bridges, and it happens.
Funny that Jack said exactly the phrase Mark says all the time, that dreams never end up in reality. What the heck Mark's dreaming about then? :think
A lot of people who get something from MK or other famous people think it's their chance, and want more, get into a bit of addiction. I think it's a mistake.
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The ever-present danger of mixing business with pleasure (including friendship). Mark has always been the kind of guy who only dances to his own tune (ha!), except if you are Chet Atkins or Bob Dylan. I certainly think Jack knew and accepted that. Mark was the star, and they would never be on equal terms artistically. However, because of their friendship, Mark should have showed Jack the respect and decency to at least offer some kind of explanation. If Mark no longer felt a desire to go on with a project involving Jack, then they should have had that conversation.
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Indeed.
But then MK mentioned Jack's daughters being born onstage at Mandela.
All very strange.
and he donated £1000 to the funeral costs when Jacks daughter passed away.
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What is also sad is just how often Mark is writing about people who have passed away!! We seem to be loosing more and more great musicians as they all get older. Isn't Jack the first member of the Dire Straits "family" to have died?
Yes. I had that reflection too:(
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Pretty heart-wrenching to hear Jack describe his last meeting with Mark.
Totally heart-wrenching. Mark was a right b*stard in his treatment of Jack as he has been with so many former band members. There's no excuse.
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I always had the impression that Jack was only a fill-in on the 85/86 tour.
I don't recall that he was an "official" member of the band.
RIP Jumpin Jack!
Saul
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Obv Jack wanted more from MK than MK was willing to offer, so the latter tried to burn the bridges, and it happens.
My point of view is that Jack only expected that those projects that MK told to him as future plans like producing the power trio with Darryl Jones and Omar Hakim, could ever happen or at least being discussed. Actually in that podcast Jack says he was producing demos in order to work on what MK told him they would do in the future.
I'd say it's logical Jack expected something from MK, as MK was the one who told him about it.
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Another interview
https://www.ouramericannetwork.org/story?title=Dire-Straits-Jack-Sonni
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Excerpt from Jack's book here
https://web.archive.org/web/20100915043036/http://www.jacksonni.com/read_listen/
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Some memories on the forum from Jack. Maybe not everyone read then.
https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=1574.0
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Some memories on the forum from Jack. Maybe not everyone read then.
https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=1574.0 (https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=1574.0)
Lol! Crazy thread.
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Some memories on the forum from Jack. Maybe not everyone read then.
https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=1574.0
No excuses and Mark has form on this treatment of band members. Only one original member by the time they started the BIA album is testament to that.
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My opinion is Mark did the right tribute to him.
I'd wished that their post BIA relationship would had gone a better way.
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What is also sad is just how often Mark is writing about people who have passed away!! We seem to be loosing more and more great musicians as they all get older. Isn't Jack the first member of the Dire Straits "family" to have died?
I guess drastically, the older MK gets, the more of his “peers” he’ll have to write about.
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What is also sad is just how often Mark is writing about people who have passed away!! We seem to be loosing more and more great musicians as they all get older. Isn't Jack the first member of the Dire Straits "family" to have died?
I guess drastically, the older MK gets, the more of his “peers” he’ll have to write about.
Or maybe they’ll be writing about him.
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A more positive way to look at it is that Mark offered an obscure employee the opportunity of a lifetime, which resulted in fame, prestige, and so on. Jack could have capitalized a lot on that. If he didn't, that's not Mark's fault...
But what is uncool is making plenty of empty promise to Jack for the future.. Must have been hard to swallow...
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A more positive way to look at it is that Mark offered an obscure employee the opportunity of a lifetime, which resulted in fame, prestige, and so on. Jack could have capitalized a lot on that. If he didn't, that's not Mark's fault...
But what is uncool is making plenty of empty promise to Jack for the future.. Must have been hard to swallow...
Great point! Mark is also a human being and clearly worked hard to decide what to do next, so some promises or plans were bound to be empty.
As a man in dire straits from being away from home for almost a year, I can imagine the toll this tour had on everybody. They had more fun tho :lol
I also agree with capitalising, it's important to treasure and use what you have. But it's easy to make it obvious so you can be accused of capitalising.
Anyway, human relationships are the weirdest, strangest, most unpredictable thing in the world. Nothing will surprise me after 30 years on this planet.
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Some memories on the forum from Jack. Maybe not everyone read then.
https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=1574.0 (https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=1574.0)
Lol! Crazy thread.
Is it me or does Jack's post now seem to be edited on page 2 of the thread so we can't read it?
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A more positive way to look at it is that Mark offered an obscure employee the opportunity of a lifetime, which resulted in fame, prestige, and so on. Jack could have capitalized a lot on that. If he didn't, that's not Mark's fault...
But what is uncool is making plenty of empty promise to Jack for the future.. Must have been hard to swallow...
Great point! Mark is also a human being and clearly worked hard to decide what to do next, so some promises or plans were bound to be empty.
As a man in dire straits from being away from home for almost a year, I can imagine the toll this tour had on everybody. They had more fun tho :lol
I also agree with capitalising, it's important to treasure and use what you have. But it's easy to make it obvious so you can be accused of capitalising.
Anyway, human relationships are the weirdest, strangest, most unpredictable thing in the world. Nothing will surprise me after 30 years on this planet.
And we always only know one side. Mark never said anything about past years.
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Watch some interviews on youtube he did in recent years, he admits he didn’t like DS and thought they were boring. He tried to make them sound like another American soft rock band in my opinion. He’s always been my least favourite 2nd guitarist in DS in terms of sound. No doubt he was a lovely bloke, but I think he wasn’t a good fit in DS. He would have been better in Guns N Roses.
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I think he said something like "let's face it, we butchered the songs during the BIA tour". I love the BIA tour, but it was pretty extreme in stretching the songs: expanded to death, breaks, synth and sax all over the place, 100 chords when the studio version had one... Ok that's why live is for, having fun with the songs, but this was a bit over the top. Jack fitted this mindset of the time, he had fun playing with the songs to the extreme, like his controversial solo on Wild west end, some love it, some hate it...
So yes, he is not my favorite 2nd guitarist either, even though he was lovely and great fun. David had a unique groove, Hal was competent, Phil was ok, Richard is by far the very best, and Jack... well, was over the top. That was 1985, he was great for the period. But I can understand that Mark wanted a change...
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Maybe Jack was simply to 'Rock and Roll' for MK both on and off stage. We've all been in situations with friends doing things we're not really comfortable with. Its not easy and often you find yourself saying things that in your own mind you know will never come to fruition.
I would also offer the following. Jack really was the epitome of DS at its polished, commercial zenith. If you read and listen to his commentary on this its obvious that he was totally addicted to 'being a rock star. Don't get me wrong, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, and its lovely to hear the emotion in his voice when he describes his experiences. However I think deep down this was the antithesis of where MK was heading. Mark was really beginning his attempt to put the monster he helped create back in its cage....
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I think he said something like "let's face it, we butchered the songs during the BIA tour". I love the BIA tour, but it was pretty extreme in stretching the songs: expanded to death, breaks, synth and sax all over the place, 100 chords when the studio version had one... Ok that's why live is for, having fun with the songs, but this was a bit over the top. Jack fitted this mindset of the time, he had fun playing with the songs to the extreme, like his controversial solo on Wild west end, some love it, some hate it...
So yes, he is not my favorite 2nd guitarist either, even though he was lovely and great fun. David had a unique groove, Hal was competent, Phil was ok, Richard is by far the very best, and Jack... well, was over the top. That was 1985, he was great for the period. But I can understand that Mark wanted a change...
Richard? From Mark's solo stuff? Irrelevant. Totally different beast. IF Mark started out with his solo stuff before Dire Straits I wouldn't have been interested in the first place.
Hal was much more than competent. Probably the best Rhythm guitarist along with Jack. Be interesting to hear what parts Hal played exactly on the Love Over Gold album but that guy was so underrated and of course it's proven as he is now a formidable writer in his own right where he's involved in Film and TV. Terry Williams did an interview on a podcast a few years back and he was about to reveal why Hal left the band in '84 (or sacked not sure exactly) Terry seemed very sad about it "oh poor Hal..." But then the podcast cut the answer out. Probably because Terry or the Podcast producer didn't want to get into trouble. If anyone has any answers to that..??? Anyway im digressing...
To be honest as a youngster who followed Dire Straits Jack brought some life into the band. Yes he only played a few bits on BIA and that was mostly on the rather excellent The Man's Too Strong, but he was formidable live in that 2 year period from 85-86 which included the famous Live Aid performance. Stunning guitarist in his own right, this is an extremely sad time, and I wish his family well.
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RIP Jack.
I don't think its fair to speculate on their friendship/working relationship, none of us will ever have all the facts. I therefore prefer to take a more neutral view.
If you take a look at the musicians that have stayed the length with MK - Richard and Guy, they are excellent musicians, in demand in their own right and were not dependent on MK to make their musical career happen. I also get the impression from interviews they wouldn't get in the way of any direction that MK wanted to go outside the studio . i.e. they would accept the recording process how it usually works - that MK would announce he has some new songs, they would go into recording them with him and putting their creative input in, but wouldn't meddle in anything else.
When MK met Jack he was working in a guitar shop and not a well known session guitarist like Richard for example. I think the zero to hero can be difficult to deal with for anyone and its probably natural that after the BIA tour Jack wanted some more with the band/MK but that was already the first hiatus of the Straits and MK was already moving in his own new musical direction. Maybe if Jack had played at Mandela and his wife had not had twins he would have been on OES recording and tour but its all speculation.
As Pavel said, I would look at in a positive way that life and natural forces brought them together at a special time, gave Jack a great experience in a very successful tour but after that, circumstances/fate/life made them drift apart. It happens in any friendships and relationships, no fault or blame to be apportioned.
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Some memories on the forum from Jack. Maybe not everyone read then.
https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=1574.0 (https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=1574.0)
Lol! Crazy thread.
Is it me or does Jack's post now seem to be edited on page 2 of the thread so we can't read it?
Amit forum suffered some problems in the past and here and there some threads lost part of the posts. In that thread for example there are a lot of cut posts
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A more positive way to look at it is that Mark offered an obscure employee the opportunity of a lifetime, which resulted in fame, prestige, and so on. Jack could have capitalized a lot on that. If he didn't, that's not Mark's fault...
But what is uncool is making plenty of empty promise to Jack for the future.. Must have been hard to swallow...
Great point! Mark is also a human being and clearly worked hard to decide what to do next, so some promises or plans were bound to be empty.
As a man in dire straits from being away from home for almost a year, I can imagine the toll this tour had on everybody. They had more fun tho :lol
I also agree with capitalising, it's important to treasure and use what you have. But it's easy to make it obvious so you can be accused of capitalising.
Anyway, human relationships are the weirdest, strangest, most unpredictable thing in the world. Nothing will surprise me after 30 years on this planet.
And we always only know one side. Mark never said anything about past years.
I wonder why. ::)
Open your eyes for once. You don't have to love him to love his music. He has form on this, even with his own brother so I certainly don't believe Jack is making this up for one second.
When someone dies it should be a time for reflection on their life and I have been thinking about him since I heard the news. I have come to some conclusions.
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Well, since we don't have both sides of all these stories, maybe we should just look at the statistics.
From the DS days, Mark has kept a good relationship for sure only with John, Guy, Danny, and Paul.
With David, Pick, Terry, Alan, Jack, Chris (White), Chris (Withen),Phil, and Ed, the relationship went sour or at least non existent, with some bad rumours.
Not counting Chad and Matt from the solo days...
Maybe Hal is an exception, since he came in 2019 to some concerts, they might have kept a relationship.
Anyway, the statistics are not in favour of Mark.. Must be a difficult fellow to work with. Like most geniuses... "My way of the highway"!
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He seems to get on OK with members of the present band though - Richard, Guy, Glen, Danny, Ian, Jim, Paul, John & Mike, plus John Illsley (DS) and has done with most of them since 1995!
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He seems to get on OK with members of the present band though - Richard, Guy, Glen, Danny, Ian, Jim, Paul, John & Mike, plus John Illsley (DS) and has done with most of them since 1995!
The tours are very obviously (to me anyway) different to him now. He treats them less seriously and hence the pressure is off. You could see the pressure on him taking its toll in the Sydney '86 concert. Even the OES tour was taken less seriously and relationships were apparently strained from very early on. I've heard it referred to as the On Easy Street tour and I'd go along with that. The BIA tour was taken very seriously since the band had a lot to live up to and he seemed to feel that pressure by the end, hence disbanding.
The solo tours come across as a bit of a jam with some mates for him and therefore less pressure and much easier for him to get along with everyone. They also know what side their bread is buttered on and will have made a decent income from their work with Mark over the years, especially his yes man Guy.
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Well, since we don't have both sides of all these stories, maybe we should just look at the statistics.
From the DS days, Mark has kept a good relationship for sure only with John, Guy, Danny, and Paul.
With David, Pick, Terry, Alan, Jack, Chris (White), Chris (Withen),Phil, and Ed, the relationship went sour or at least non existent, with some bad rumours.
Not counting Chad and Matt from the solo days...
Maybe Hal is an exception, since he came in 2019 to some concerts, they might have kept a relationship.
Anyway, the statistics are not in favour of Mark.. Must be a difficult fellow to work with. Like most geniuses... "My way of the highway"!
Don’t forget Tommy Mandel!
(Although I would exclude Matt, I don’t think there was an issue, just Jim came back).
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Well, since we don't have both sides of all these stories, maybe we should just look at the statistics.
From the DS days, Mark has kept a good relationship for sure only with John, Guy, Danny, and Paul.
With David, Pick, Terry, Alan, Jack, Chris (White), Chris (Withen),Phil, and Ed, the relationship went sour or at least non existent, with some bad rumours.
Not counting Chad and Matt from the solo days...
Maybe Hal is an exception, since he came in 2019 to some concerts, they might have kept a relationship.
Anyway, the statistics are not in favour of Mark.. Must be a difficult fellow to work with. Like most geniuses... "My way of the highway"!
Don’t forget Tommy Mandel!
(Although I would exclude Matt, I don’t think there was an issue, just Jim came back).
Matt replaced Jim because he had an ear problem that left him unable to fly. I think I recall they had come up with a plan to enable him to join them on the RPD tour. Goodness knows what the plan was as there’s no way he’d have been able to keep up with the rest of the band by ship!
Guy wrote about it on the diary for the Privateering recording.
Matt was hired to tour with them. He was only credited on one solo album and the album with Emmy. As Guy sometimes says, they never assume anything. They just get rehired again. Jim’s ear problem fixed and so Matt wasn’t needed.
I believe the above to be correct anyway.
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Well, since we don't have both sides of all these stories, maybe we should just look at the statistics.
From the DS days, Mark has kept a good relationship for sure only with John, Guy, Danny, and Paul.
With David, Pick, Terry, Alan, Jack, Chris (White), Chris (Withen),Phil, and Ed, the relationship went sour or at least non existent, with some bad rumours.
Not counting Chad and Matt from the solo days...
Maybe Hal is an exception, since he came in 2019 to some concerts, they might have kept a relationship.
Anyway, the statistics are not in favour of Mark.. Must be a difficult fellow to work with. Like most geniuses... "My way of the highway"!
Don’t forget Tommy Mandel!
(Although I would exclude Matt, I don’t think there was an issue, just Jim came back).
Matt replaced Jim because he had an ear problem that left him unable to fly. I think I recall they had come up with a plan to enable him to join them on the RPD tour. Goodness knows what the plan was as there’s no way he’d have been able to keep up with the rest of the band by ship!
Guy wrote about it on the diary for the Privateering recording.
Matt was hired to tour with them. He was only credited on one solo album and the album with Emmy. As Guy sometimes says, they never assume anything. They just get rehired again. Jim’s ear problem fixed and so Matt wasn’t needed.
I believe the above to be correct anyway.
I was always a bit suspect about this ear problem that just resolved itself. Maybe they fell out and made up again after Mark fell out with Matt! 😂
I never bought that "family issues" thing when Chad left in 2005 either.
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I was always a bit suspect about this ear problem that just resolved itself. Maybe they fell out and made up again after Mark fell out with Matt! 😂
I never bought that "family issues" thing when Chad left in 2005 either.
Jim got to Europe for the TRD tour on a ship right? And went home on a ship when the accident happened. The planned TRD tour had no dates in Africa/Asia/Australia like the SL tour which requires planes.
Chad confirmed the family issue in a recent interview.
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I was always a bit suspect about this ear problem that just resolved itself. Maybe they fell out and made up again after Mark fell out with Matt! 😂
I never bought that "family issues" thing when Chad left in 2005 either.
Jim got to Europe for the TRD tour on a ship right? And went home on a ship when the accident happened. The planned TRD tour had no dates in Africa/Asia/Australia like the SL tour which requires planes.
Chad confirmed the family issue in a recent interview.
Fats Kaplin (guitar, fiddle, pedal steel) was also in the line-up. It's a pity.
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And I believe someone else was on bass duties. Can’t recall the name though. Guy posted the lineup once and I seem to recall it wasn’t Glenn. Hard as that is to believe.
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And I believe someone else was on bass duties. Can’t recall the name though. Guy posted the lineup once and I seem to recall it wasn’t Glenn. Hard as that is to believe.
Probably Marcus Cliffe
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And I believe someone else was on bass duties. Can’t recall the name though. Guy posted the lineup once and I seem to recall it wasn’t Glenn. Hard as that is to believe.
Probably Marcus Cliffe
Yes!
Marcus on bass, Danny on drums, Jim on keys and Fats Kaolin on mandolin, fiddle and steel guitar
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I was always a bit suspect about this ear problem that just resolved itself. Maybe they fell out and made up again after Mark fell out with Matt! 😂
I never bought that "family issues" thing when Chad left in 2005 either.
Jim got to Europe for the TRD tour on a ship right? And went home on a ship when the accident happened. The planned TRD tour had no dates in Africa/Asia/Australia like the SL tour which requires planes.
Chad confirmed the family issue in a recent interview.
They've usually used a private jet to travel from city to city. Or that's been the excuse from Guy for the short setlists.
Fair enough if Chad confirmed it, but after that he was dumped out of the band.
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I was always a bit suspect about this ear problem that just resolved itself. Maybe they fell out and made up again after Mark fell out with Matt! 😂
I never bought that "family issues" thing when Chad left in 2005 either.
Jim got to Europe for the TRD tour on a ship right? And went home on a ship when the accident happened. The planned TRD tour had no dates in Africa/Asia/Australia like the SL tour which requires planes.
Chad confirmed the family issue in a recent interview.
They've usually used a private jet to travel from city to city. Or that's been the excuse from Guy for the short setlists.
Fair enough if Chad confirmed it, but after that he was dumped out of the band.
For Danny though, who is still on the scene. Not quite sure what you’re saying about MK.
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I was always a bit suspect about this ear problem that just resolved itself. Maybe they fell out and made up again after Mark fell out with Matt! 😂
I never bought that "family issues" thing when Chad left in 2005 either.
Jim got to Europe for the TRD tour on a ship right? And went home on a ship when the accident happened. The planned TRD tour had no dates in Africa/Asia/Australia like the SL tour which requires planes.
Chad confirmed the family issue in a recent interview.
They've usually used a private jet to travel from city to city. Or that's been the excuse from Guy for the short setlists.
Fair enough if Chad confirmed it, but after that he was dumped out of the band.
For Danny though, who is still on the scene. Not quite sure what you’re saying about MK.
I'm saying he's fallen out with a lot of band members over the years. We all know this and we don't even have to discuss The Dullards because the matter concerns the period when Jack was in the band.
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The Dullards? You do know this is a pro MK forum. No person is perfect, and I can guarantee he has had to be harsh as he’s in one of the most cut throat and ruthless industries going. I have alot of respect for him as he has protected every one he’s worked with. I’m sure some were absolute arseholes, yet MK remains silent even with shit being flung at him. He’s the boss at the end of the day and who likes their boss. I shall be keeping MK and DS on my playlist for now, unless it turns out he was best friends with Epstein.
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The Dullards? You do know this is a pro MK forum. No person is perfect, and I can guarantee he has had to be harsh as he’s in one of the most cut throat and ruthless industries going. I have alot of respect for him as he has protected every one he’s worked with. I’m sure some were absolute arseholes, yet MK remains silent even with shit being flung at him. He’s the boss at the end of the day and who likes their boss. I shall be keeping MK and DS on my playlist for now, unless it turns out he was best friends with Epstein.
:thumbsup :thumbsup
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Sure it's a pro MK forum, but there's also a history here with bad mouthing other DS member's efforts and contributions - as long as one doesn't touch "the master" of course. I can't see the term "The Dullards" being particularly bad, it's just an opinion about the solo band being less exciting than DS.
As for MK and falling out with other members - you can EASILY treat people with respect and dignity even in the music industry. It's not like you can't get a message through without being disrespectful, if that's the case here. It's like in a soccer/football wardrobe. If someone makes a bad pass, you can give constructive criticism, or do the usual "macho boy" trash talk nonsense. It's a CHOICE, not a necessity.
We've probably all heard the "oh, I just play one instrument averagely" speech. You think he has had that attitude in the studio or the rehearsal room, especially in the DS days?
I'm pretty sure there would be less usage of terms like "the dullards" if people also would stop putting MK in a separate league compared to the others, and treat everyone as equals. That just means there is some sort of strange competition about being better than someone else at something. But, after all, when you put on a record, you do hear a band effort - not just MK.
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They say never mix business with pleasure. This I think is at the root of many of these situations with MK and those he cast aside.
How many musicians here have been in bands where a promotor or talent scout has approached you and said 'Your band is great but the (insert instrumentalist) needs to go'. Now in my band it was the female vocalist. The bass player was sleeping with her, she was very close with the rest of us (don't tell the bass player!). We chose to ignore the advice (even though we knew she was a bit rubbish and sang like an out of tune drunk!) and of course we got nowhere very fast!
My point really is what Is the correct way to end a musical partnership with someone? Marks approach seems at face value to be to move on and behave as if nothing happened.
I'm not condoning this approach, I'm merely saying that its not an easy thing to do.
Many creative musicians are decent, loyal people, and many I think mistakenly conflate musical relationships with friendships. Sadly such values seldomly get you to the top....
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I can also add I met MK in Johns pub. I didn’t let on I knew who he was and he was completely charming and very nice to me and my kids. He even chatted to one of them whilst holding open a gate, she was 6 at the time. He was just a lovely old fella.
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This thread has now descended into a free for all to insult MK and throw as much mud as possible in his direction! The final insult from a couple of "fans" on this forum is to call Mark's fantastic, talented band "The Dullards" ! Yes, I know that this title originally came from the mouth of Ed Bicknell - it wasn't funny or witty then and it isn't now - it is just repugnant!
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As a non-native speaker of English, I always thought dullard had something to do with dull in the sense of boring. The real meaning is actually a stupid person (dull-minded?), which first of all is pretty offensive when used about Mark's band, but secondly it doesn't make sense. Even if we do find them less than exciting, we should refrain from using the word dullard.
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The Dullards? You do know this is a pro MK forum. No person is perfect, and I can guarantee he has had to be harsh as he’s in one of the most cut throat and ruthless industries going. I have alot of respect for him as he has protected every one he’s worked with. I’m sure some were absolute arseholes, yet MK remains silent even with shit being flung at him. He’s the boss at the end of the day and who likes their boss. I shall be keeping MK and DS on my playlist for now, unless it turns out he was best friends with Epstein.
I'm not telling anyone what to do, but after reflecting about Jack's life in recent days I came to the conclusion that Mark has not been a nice person over the years and I'd be kidding myself otherwise. That doesn't mean I won't listen to his music though.
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As a non-native speaker of English, I always thought dullard had something to do with dull in the sense of boring. The real meaning is actually a stupid person (dull-minded?), which first of all is pretty offensive when used about Mark's band, but secondly it doesn't make sense. Even if we do find them less than exciting, we should refrain from using the word dullard.
Dull in the sense of boring is how I had assumed the phrase to be meant with the "ards" giving it the band name, something like The Communards.
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The Dullards? You do know this is a pro MK forum. No person is perfect, and I can guarantee he has had to be harsh as he’s in one of the most cut throat and ruthless industries going. I have alot of respect for him as he has protected every one he’s worked with. I’m sure some were absolute arseholes, yet MK remains silent even with shit being flung at him. He’s the boss at the end of the day and who likes their boss. I shall be keeping MK and DS on my playlist for now, unless it turns out he was best friends with Epstein.
I'm not telling anyone what to do, but after reflecting about Jack's life in recent days I came to the conclusion that Mark has not been a nice person over the years and you're kidding yourself otherwise. That doesn't mean I won't listen to his music though.
I can perfectly understand where The Dullards name comes from. It's not an insult, as much as ironicising about Mark using these Universe-class musicians to play simple strumming songs, which is quite literally like a walk in a park for them. And the fact they have very little room for improvisation, being Multiverse-class improvisers. Meanwhile, the same MK just pulled a guy from a music store for his biggest tour and look how cool that went!
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I believe it was Ed who coined the term Dullards and he obviously has a chip on his shoulder as someone who was dumped when MK moved on from the headband. Ed is another who has done nothing of note without MK by the way.
Personally I find it childish when I see these nicknames. There’s plenty of people I don’t care for but I try not to use nicknames for them. People calling Bob Dylan Krusty is another example.
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The Dullards? You do know this is a pro MK forum. No person is perfect, and I can guarantee he has had to be harsh as he’s in one of the most cut throat and ruthless industries going. I have alot of respect for him as he has protected every one he’s worked with. I’m sure some were absolute arseholes, yet MK remains silent even with shit being flung at him. He’s the boss at the end of the day and who likes their boss. I shall be keeping MK and DS on my playlist for now, unless it turns out he was best friends with Epstein.
I'm not telling anyone what to do, but after reflecting about Jack's life in recent days I came to the conclusion that Mark has not been a nice person over the years and you're kidding yourself otherwise. That doesn't mean I won't listen to his music though.
I can perfectly understand where The Dullards name comes from. It's not an insult, as much as ironicising about Mark using these Universe-class musicians to play simple strumming songs, which is quite literally like a walk in a park for them. And the fact they have very little room for improvisation, being Multiverse-class improvisers. Meanwhile, the same MK just pulled a guy from a music store for his biggest tour and look how cool that went!
Simple strumming songs? Really?
Of course it was meant as an insult. Ed found the band dull (boring), and to be fair, they aren't exactly a lively or cool lot. But dullard is not the right word to use.
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As a non-native speaker of English, I always thought dullard had something to do with dull in the sense of boring. The real meaning is actually a stupid person (dull-minded?), which first of all is pretty offensive when used about Mark's band, but secondly it doesn't make sense. Even if we do find them less than exciting, we should refrain from using the word dullard.
Dull in the sense of boring is how I had assumed the phrase to be meant with the "ards" giving it the band name, something like The Communards.
Dictionary?
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Simple strumming songs? Really?
Of course it was meant as an insult. Ed found the band dull (boring), and to be fair, they aren't exactly a lively or cool lot. But dullard is not the right word to use.
Simple strumming songs compared with what they are usually playing and/or capable of. To play live which of Mark's songs exactly do you need to be a studio veteran with 50 years of playing and 5000 record sessions? We all know Mark's music deserves the best, and his band is the best, just joking about the overkill nature of it a little bit.
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I believe it was Ed who coined the term Dullards and he obviously has a chip on his shoulder as someone who was dumped when MK moved on from the headband. Ed is another who has done nothing of note without MK by the way.
Personally I find it childish when I see these nicknames. There’s plenty of people I don’t care for but I try not to use nicknames for them. People calling Bob Dylan Krusty is another example.
Ed left the business after he left the MK management.
I think he was director of something related to music during a time but retired.
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Simple strumming songs? Really?
Of course it was meant as an insult. Ed found the band dull (boring), and to be fair, they aren't exactly a lively or cool lot. But dullard is not the right word to use.
Simple strumming songs compared with what they are usually playing and/or capable of. To play live which of Mark's songs exactly do you need to be a studio veteran with 50 years of playing and 5000 record sessions? We all know Mark's music deserves the best, and his band is the best, just joking about the overkill nature of it a little bit.
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. Do you think that all they do is highly advanced fusion music or whatever? They have played on tons of simple country records. Overkill? Mark wanted a band of musicians that he had good chemistry with and that could play anything from simple blues to complicated, intricate arrangements and give Mark total artistic freedom.
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Simple strumming songs? Really?
Of course it was meant as an insult. Ed found the band dull (boring), and to be fair, they aren't exactly a lively or cool lot. But dullard is not the right word to use.
Simple strumming songs compared with what they are usually playing and/or capable of. To play live which of Mark's songs exactly do you need to be a studio veteran with 50 years of playing and 5000 record sessions? We all know Mark's music deserves the best, and his band is the best, just joking about the overkill nature of it a little bit.
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. Do you think that all they do is highly advanced fusion music or whatever? They have played on tons of simple country records. Overkill? Mark wanted a band of musicians that he had good chemistry with and that could play anything from simple blues to complicated, intricate arrangements and give Mark total artistic freedom.
I, for one, like Mark's "local" British band more than his standard American band. No need to cheapen other musician's work, they are all great. Besides, Golden Heart was recorded with a bunch of different studio musicians and still ended up sounding like MK. I don't want to argue about music man, you're right, it's pointless. The tagline in one of Philips adverts said it perfectly well: "Mark wants the best, what about you?"
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Actually, in my opinion, MK's music gained more souls when the Macs joined the band.
The rest of the band are all session musicians that can be changed by others and you won't notice the difference, as in GH you can't know who play what unless you read the credits.
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Actually, in my opinion, MK's music gained more souls when the Macs joined the band.
The rest of the band are all session musicians that can be changed by others and you won't notice the difference, as in GH you can't know who play what unless you read the credits.
I agree. John and Mike added color and life to the stage. Danny and Ian too to a certain degree, I would say. The others in the band are pretty anonymous. And that's what Jack added. And Brendan Croker. Mark, being the introvert he is, really enjoys and feeds off of that energy.
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Actually, in my opinion, MK's music gained more souls when the Macs joined the band.
The rest of the band are all session musicians that can be changed by others and you won't notice the difference, as in GH you can't know who play what unless you read the credits.
I think one of the best songs that this is highlighted on is Speedway. Listen to a 2005 version where Guy is playing the violin intro on synth. It’s okay and I probably wouldn’t have good enough ears to tell it’s not a proper violin unless I can see the stage. But there’s no doubt that song rocketed after 2008.
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Actually, in my opinion, MK's music gained more souls when the Macs joined the band.
The rest of the band are all session musicians that can be changed by others and you won't notice the difference, as in GH you can't know who play what unless you read the credits.
I think one of the best songs that this is highlighted on is Speedway. Listen to a 2005 version where Guy is playing the violin intro on synth. It’s okay and I probably wouldn’t have good enough ears to tell it’s not a proper violin unless I can see the stage. But there’s no doubt that song rocketed after 2008.
We have taken various members of our family to see MK concerts and, apart from MK, it is the folkies that they always particularly mention.
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The thing is, all these musicians Mark plays with in his solo career are chosen by him, be that because he likes the person, or because he likes their playing or any other number of reasons, it doesn't matter if they are great or not, they must like Mark's songs or they wouldn't be working with him for so long, both Richard and Glenn have stated that working with Mark has been a high point in their careers, if that's not an endorsement I don't know what is, they are session players with decades or work, with many, many people, so, I believe them, Emmylou and Chet both have said highly complimentary things about Mark too, as always, there are 2 sides to the story, and we really don't don't know what either of them are!!! We can't all get on with everyone we meet or work with, or even related to, that's just life.
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The Dullards? You do know this is a pro MK forum. No person is perfect, and I can guarantee he has had to be harsh as he’s in one of the most cut throat and ruthless industries going. I have alot of respect for him as he has protected every one he’s worked with. I’m sure some were absolute arseholes, yet MK remains silent even with shit being flung at him. He’s the boss at the end of the day and who likes their boss. I shall be keeping MK and DS on my playlist for now, unless it turns out he was best friends with Epstein.
I'm not telling anyone what to do, but after reflecting about Jack's life in recent days I came to the conclusion that Mark has not been a nice person over the years and you're kidding yourself otherwise. That doesn't mean I won't listen to his music though.
I can perfectly understand where The Dullards name comes from. It's not an insult, as much as ironicising about Mark using these Universe-class musicians to play simple strumming songs, which is quite literally like a walk in a park for them. And the fact they have very little room for improvisation, being Multiverse-class improvisers. Meanwhile, the same MK just pulled a guy from a music store for his biggest tour and look how cool that went!
Simple strumming songs? Really?
Of course it was meant as an insult. Ed found the band dull (boring), and to be fair, they aren't exactly a lively or cool lot. But dullard is not the right word to use.
You (and others) don't get it: "The Dullards" is completely different from a dullard. Proper noun vs noun.
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The Dullards? You do know this is a pro MK forum. No person is perfect, and I can guarantee he has had to be harsh as he’s in one of the most cut throat and ruthless industries going. I have alot of respect for him as he has protected every one he’s worked with. I’m sure some were absolute arseholes, yet MK remains silent even with shit being flung at him. He’s the boss at the end of the day and who likes their boss. I shall be keeping MK and DS on my playlist for now, unless it turns out he was best friends with Epstein.
I'm not telling anyone what to do, but after reflecting about Jack's life in recent days I came to the conclusion that Mark has not been a nice person over the years and you're kidding yourself otherwise. That doesn't mean I won't listen to his music though.
I can perfectly understand where The Dullards name comes from. It's not an insult, as much as ironicising about Mark using these Universe-class musicians to play simple strumming songs, which is quite literally like a walk in a park for them. And the fact they have very little room for improvisation, being Multiverse-class improvisers. Meanwhile, the same MK just pulled a guy from a music store for his biggest tour and look how cool that went!
Simple strumming songs? Really?
Of course it was meant as an insult. Ed found the band dull (boring), and to be fair, they aren't exactly a lively or cool lot. But dullard is not the right word to use.
You (and others) don't get it: "The Dullards" is completely different from a dullard. Proper noun vs noun.
I do happen to know the difference between a proper noun and a noun. "The Dullards" is a proper noun, hence the capital letters, given to the members of MK's solo band by Ed Bicknell. The noun, dullard, is a noun to describe someone as stupid or dull-minded. I still find it offensive to give this name to such a talented band.
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The Dullards? You do know this is a pro MK forum. No person is perfect, and I can guarantee he has had to be harsh as he’s in one of the most cut throat and ruthless industries going. I have alot of respect for him as he has protected every one he’s worked with. I’m sure some were absolute arseholes, yet MK remains silent even with shit being flung at him. He’s the boss at the end of the day and who likes their boss. I shall be keeping MK and DS on my playlist for now, unless it turns out he was best friends with Epstein.
I'm not telling anyone what to do, but after reflecting about Jack's life in recent days I came to the conclusion that Mark has not been a nice person over the years and you're kidding yourself otherwise. That doesn't mean I won't listen to his music though.
I can perfectly understand where The Dullards name comes from. It's not an insult, as much as ironicising about Mark using these Universe-class musicians to play simple strumming songs, which is quite literally like a walk in a park for them. And the fact they have very little room for improvisation, being Multiverse-class improvisers. Meanwhile, the same MK just pulled a guy from a music store for his biggest tour and look how cool that went!
Simple strumming songs? Really?
Of course it was meant as an insult. Ed found the band dull (boring), and to be fair, they aren't exactly a lively or cool lot. But dullard is not the right word to use.
You (and others) don't get it: "The Dullards" is completely different from a dullard. Proper noun vs noun.
I do happen to know the difference between a proper noun and a noun. "The Dullards" is a proper noun, hence the capital letters, given to the members of MK's solo band by Ed Bicknell. The noun, dullard, is a noun to describe someone as stupid or dull-minded. I still find it offensive to give this name to such a talented band.
I referred to the band as The Dullards, not a dullard, so I can't help it if anyone is offended by that. I think it's clear it was an in-joke as Ed was still Marks manager for the first two solo albums. I've called them that for years, why is it an issue now?
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The Dullards? You do know this is a pro MK forum. No person is perfect, and I can guarantee he has had to be harsh as he’s in one of the most cut throat and ruthless industries going. I have alot of respect for him as he has protected every one he’s worked with. I’m sure some were absolute arseholes, yet MK remains silent even with shit being flung at him. He’s the boss at the end of the day and who likes their boss. I shall be keeping MK and DS on my playlist for now, unless it turns out he was best friends with Epstein.
I'm not telling anyone what to do, but after reflecting about Jack's life in recent days I came to the conclusion that Mark has not been a nice person over the years and you're kidding yourself otherwise. That doesn't mean I won't listen to his music though.
I can perfectly understand where The Dullards name comes from. It's not an insult, as much as ironicising about Mark using these Universe-class musicians to play simple strumming songs, which is quite literally like a walk in a park for them. And the fact they have very little room for improvisation, being Multiverse-class improvisers. Meanwhile, the same MK just pulled a guy from a music store for his biggest tour and look how cool that went!
Simple strumming songs? Really?
Of course it was meant as an insult. Ed found the band dull (boring), and to be fair, they aren't exactly a lively or cool lot. But dullard is not the right word to use.
You (and others) don't get it: "The Dullards" is completely different from a dullard. Proper noun vs noun.
I do happen to know the difference between a proper noun and a noun. "The Dullards" is a proper noun, hence the capital letters, given to the members of MK's solo band by Ed Bicknell. The noun, dullard, is a noun to describe someone as stupid or dull-minded. I still find it offensive to give this name to such a talented band.
I referred to the band as The Dullards, not a dullard, so I can't help it if anyone is offended by that. I think it's clear it was an in-joke as Ed was still Marks manager for the first two solo albums.
I find it quite hilarious and unlikely that somebody who named his own band DIRE STRAITS and played in Brewer's Droop can be offended by The Dullards moniker 🤣
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Anyway.
RIP Jack
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Do we know a cause of death?
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I referred to the band as The Dullards, not a dullard, so I can't help it if anyone is offended by that. I think it's clear it was an in-joke as Ed was still Marks manager for the first two solo albums. I've called them that for years, why is it an issue now?
It's not an issue, I just said that I find this (and other) nickname(s) childish, but you are free to call people what you want, just as I am free to find the use of these terms childish :)
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Do we know a cause of death?
stroke (2) if i remember/heard it correctly.
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I believe it was Ed who coined the term Dullards and he obviously has a chip on his shoulder as someone who was dumped when MK moved on from the headband. Ed is another who has done nothing of note without MK by the way.
Personally I find it childish when I see these nicknames. There’s plenty of people I don’t care for but I try not to use nicknames for them. People calling Bob Dylan Krusty is another example.
i am a huge BD fan, and i for one do not care one bit about the krusty nick and use it myself. BUT i get your point in general
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I believe it was Ed who coined the term Dullards and he obviously has a chip on his shoulder as someone who was dumped when MK moved on from the headband. Ed is another who has done nothing of note without MK by the way.
Personally I find it childish when I see these nicknames. There’s plenty of people I don’t care for but I try not to use nicknames for them. People calling Bob Dylan Krusty is another example.
i am a huge BD fan, and i for one do not care one bit about the krusty nick and use it myself. BUT i get your point in general
I don't get angry about it or anything, I just find it childish, and for me it says more about the person using the terms than those they are directed at. It's not a forum thing, I take this view in general, when people give politicians etc nicknames as well. Just not my thing.
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This thread has now descended into a free for all to insult MK and throw as much mud as possible in his direction! The final insult from a couple of "fans" on this forum is to call Mark's fantastic, talented band "The Dullards" ! Yes, I know that this title originally came from the mouth of Ed Bicknell - it wasn't funny or witty then and it isn't now - it is just repugnant!
even though the level has drifted at times, i do not think it was ever really repugnant Val?
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by the way, i created a new member group
Go to Jack's post and you will notice...
RIP Jacky
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This thread has now descended into a free for all to insult MK and throw as much mud as possible in his direction! The final insult from a couple of "fans" on this forum is to call Mark's fantastic, talented band "The Dullards" ! Yes, I know that this title originally came from the mouth of Ed Bicknell - it wasn't funny or witty then and it isn't now - it is just repugnant!
even though the level has drifted at times, i do not think it was ever really repugnant Val?
Yes, it was probably a bit over the top! :)
There is another point of view, however, and that is that Ed Bicknell actually thought the band were the opposite of being dullards and he wasn't being offensive at all. I'm thinking of bands such as "The Stranglers" and "The Animals" - neither of them were actually stranglers or animals! So, dmg, I think I may have got it in the end even though I still dislike the nickname "The Dullards".
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https://youtu.be/R4e5gKtBRqk?si=q-_o7LWS31v0bTyB (https://youtu.be/R4e5gKtBRqk?si=q-_o7LWS31v0bTyB)
Really cool interview with Jack. :wave
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This thread has now descended into a free for all to insult MK and throw as much mud as possible in his direction! The final insult from a couple of "fans" on this forum is to call Mark's fantastic, talented band "The Dullards" ! Yes, I know that this title originally came from the mouth of Ed Bicknell - it wasn't funny or witty then and it isn't now - it is just repugnant!
even though the level has drifted at times, i do not think it was ever really repugnant Val?
Yes, it was probably a bit over the top! :)
There is another point of view, however, and that is that Ed Bicknell actually thought the band were the opposite of being dullards and he wasn't being offensive at all. I'm thinking of bands such as "The Stranglers" and "The Animals" - neither of them were actually stranglers or animals! So, dmg, I think I may have got it in the end even though I still dislike the nickname "The Dullards".
That's okay Val. You're perfectly allowed to dislike it as much as I'm allowed to find it funny. Let's just agree to have a different view on this my old sparring partner! :)
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This thread has now descended into a free for all to insult MK and throw as much mud as possible in his direction! The final insult from a couple of "fans" on this forum is to call Mark's fantastic, talented band "The Dullards" ! Yes, I know that this title originally came from the mouth of Ed Bicknell - it wasn't funny or witty then and it isn't now - it is just repugnant!
even though the level has drifted at times, i do not think it was ever really repugnant Val?
Yes, it was probably a bit over the top! :)
There is another point of view, however, and that is that Ed Bicknell actually thought the band were the opposite of being dullards and he wasn't being offensive at all. I'm thinking of bands such as "The Stranglers" and "The Animals" - neither of them were actually stranglers or animals! So, dmg, I think I may have got it in the end even though I still dislike the nickname "The Dullards".
That's okay Val. You're perfectly allowed to dislike it as much as I'm allowed to find it funny. Let's just agree to have a different view on this my old sparring partner! :)
:lol :wave