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Author Topic: Local Hero 40th Anniversary  (Read 2947 times)

OfflineSam96

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2023, 10:37:21 PM »
Here are my own two answers:
1.  This one is similar to your answers - the question sucks. Because it is not a binary question. It never is. Especially with Knopfler's work.
2. It doesn't really matter. The movie is what it is, so is the song. However, none of that matters to me. It's irrelevant. I dare say it's like my Spanish city. It looks so pretty to me like it always did, as I was a kid.
If there's whiskey in the bottle
Leave some for me
I'll get to it, eventually

Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2023, 10:09:45 AM »
Bittersweet is the word. I remember being in tears when it was playing at the end of a show at the RAH in 2019, happy because I was with my friends, seeing my hero from a couple of feet away, sad because I kind of knew it would be the last time...
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OfflineJF

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2023, 11:06:26 AM »
It was a happy song for.my wife, as when MK was playing it meant the show was about to end!

 :lol :lol :lol
I know that feeling !

OfflineJF

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2023, 11:11:13 AM »

Overall, I agree with you, except for this one thing: "Knopfler isn't capable of producing an unhappy song." What about Haul Away? Hill Farmer's Blues? River of Grog?? and many more..
Some have a touch of optimism, but not all of them. I don't hear it anyway.


I agree. and songs about the end of his relationship with Lourdes are not happy imho.  when it comes to you, fade to black, you and your friend... these songs are note very optimistic to my ears

The trilogy Romeo and Juliet / it never rains / Love over gold is not very Happy either

Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2023, 11:26:03 AM »
Not much optimism in Sands of Nevada, broken old gambler about to die.
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2023, 11:44:14 AM »

Overall, I agree with you, except for this one thing: "Knopfler isn't capable of producing an unhappy song." What about Haul Away? Hill Farmer's Blues? River of Grog?? and many more..
Some have a touch of optimism, but not all of them. I don't hear it anyway.


I agree. and songs about the end of his relationship with Lourdes are not happy imho.  when it comes to you, fade to black, you and your friend... these songs are note very optimistic to my ears

The trilogy Romeo and Juliet / it never rains / Love over gold is not very Happy either

Not much optimism in Sands of Nevada, broken old gambler about to die.

Come on, guys, you are talking about lyrics and/or circumstances that would lead to writing the song. But that's where optimism comes in handy. Mark's music is like, I don't know, 80% blues, and blues is nothing but a good man feeling bad. Even if the song is dark, it's still a song, an emotion that manifested itself in the form of music. To me, this is the definition of optimism. When you lose your love, when somebody dies, if you see a shitty jazz band on a rainy evening, instead of moaning and suffering, you write a song about it. And in Mark's case, a song that would give you millions and millions of pounds. Not too pessimistic, after all?

OfflineJF

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2023, 01:46:46 PM »

Overall, I agree with you, except for this one thing: "Knopfler isn't capable of producing an unhappy song." What about Haul Away? Hill Farmer's Blues? River of Grog?? and many more..
Some have a touch of optimism, but not all of them. I don't hear it anyway.


I agree. and songs about the end of his relationship with Lourdes are not happy imho.  when it comes to you, fade to black, you and your friend... these songs are note very optimistic to my ears

The trilogy Romeo and Juliet / it never rains / Love over gold is not very Happy either

Not much optimism in Sands of Nevada, broken old gambler about to die.

Come on, guys, you are talking about lyrics and/or circumstances that would lead to writing the song. But that's where optimism comes in handy. Mark's music is like, I don't know, 80% blues, and blues is nothing but a good man feeling bad. Even if the song is dark, it's still a song, an emotion that manifested itself in the form of music. To me, this is the definition of optimism. When you lose your love, when somebody dies, if you see a shitty jazz band on a rainy evening, instead of moaning and suffering, you write a song about it. And in Mark's case, a song that would give you millions and millions of pounds. Not too pessimistic, after all?

ah yes I understand your point of view
it means that every piece of art is optimistic, right ?
when someone writes a book, a song, a film or makes a painting, etc... even if the reason why he made it was sad, the result is something optimistic then...

I don't remember who was saying something like "love breakup makes great songs"

BTW, last song on Lou Reed's Berlin album is called "sad song", but musically I find it "happy", with bright feeling and it ends on a major chord

and of course there is the great parody at the end of Monty Python "life's of Brian" film. Even if you are crucified, you can "look at the bright side of life" ! 

Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2023, 02:42:27 PM »
I saw Lou Reed perform the whole Berlin album live, Sad Song had a children's choir on stage, it was all very happy. :)
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2023, 03:01:18 PM »
Come on, guys, you are talking about lyrics and/or circumstances that would lead to writing the song. But that's where optimism comes in handy. Mark's music is like, I don't know, 80% blues, and blues is nothing but a good man feeling bad. Even if the song is dark, it's still a song, an emotion that manifested itself in the form of music. To me, this is the definition of optimism. When you lose your love, when somebody dies, if you see a shitty jazz band on a rainy evening, instead of moaning and suffering, you write a song about it. And in Mark's case, a song that would give you millions and millions of pounds. Not too pessimistic, after all?

ah yes I understand your point of view
it means that every piece of art is optimistic, right ?
when someone writes a book, a song, a film or makes a painting, etc... even if the reason why he made it was sad, the result is something optimistic then...

I don't remember who was saying something like "love breakup makes great songs"

BTW, last song on Lou Reed's Berlin album is called "sad song", but musically I find it "happy", with bright feeling and it ends on a major chord

and of course there is the great parody at the end of Monty Python "life's of Brian" film. Even if you are crucified, you can "look at the bright side of life" !

Yes, exactly... I find any art extremely optimistic, as it celebrates the joy of life, creation, conversation, and beauty, even if it's something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist's_Shit — it's still art, it still engages conversation, still inspires (somebody) and it's still thought-provoking. Any art has the right to exist.

As Bob Dylan put it, the ultimate goal of art is to inspire, either new art or something completely different, it doesn't matter. Or like Ray Manzarek, keyboard player of The Doors put it, "You don't make music for immortality, you make music for the moment of capturing the sheer joy of being alive on planet Earth."

Optimism sometimes is indistinguishable from being insane, much like "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", but as a way of life, I find it the only way possible that can drive people forward. For the last quote, I'll use Winston Churchill: "I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else."

OfflineSam96

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2023, 03:11:08 PM »

Overall, I agree with you, except for this one thing: "Knopfler isn't capable of producing an unhappy song." What about Haul Away? Hill Farmer's Blues? River of Grog?? and many more..
Some have a touch of optimism, but not all of them. I don't hear it anyway.


I agree. and songs about the end of his relationship with Lourdes are not happy imho.  when it comes to you, fade to black, you and your friend... these songs are note very optimistic to my ears

The trilogy Romeo and Juliet / it never rains / Love over gold is not very Happy either

Not much optimism in Sands of Nevada, broken old gambler about to die.

Come on, guys, you are talking about lyrics and/or circumstances that would lead to writing the song. But that's where optimism comes in handy. Mark's music is like, I don't know, 80% blues, and blues is nothing but a good man feeling bad. Even if the song is dark, it's still a song, an emotion that manifested itself in the form of music. To me, this is the definition of optimism. When you lose your love, when somebody dies, if you see a shitty jazz band on a rainy evening, instead of moaning and suffering, you write a song about it. And in Mark's case, a song that would give you millions and millions of pounds. Not too pessimistic, after all?


I don't understand this answer. Are you saying that there is no such thing as an "unhappy" song at all? That just the existence of art and creation itself is happiness? If so, I feel like it's pretty much irrelevant to the question of whether "Going Home" is a happy song, because there's no such thing as an unhappy song, and we have nothing to talk about.

In my point of view, a sad song is a song that makes me feel sad or sad-like feelings. As simple as that. It can be because of the lyrics, circumstances, melody, etc. A song that delivers a sad story and emotions. Usually, when I listen to a song, I'm more emotional than rational, and I don't think about the artist writing them. I think about the protagonist in them, and I feel their emotions. And a sad, yet optimistic song might be a sad one with a happy ending, for one example. And this specific movie, I don't have a solid opinion whether it's happy, sad, neutral.. So I wanted to hear you guys :)

Anyway, as interesting as this philosophical discussion is, I feel like we're more in agreement than not since you did understand my question in a way that aligns with my meaning of a "sad song."
If there's whiskey in the bottle
Leave some for me
I'll get to it, eventually

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2023, 03:45:12 PM »
I don't understand this answer. Are you saying that there is no such thing as an "unhappy" song at all? That just the existence of art and creation itself is happiness? If so, I feel like it's pretty much irrelevant to the question of whether "Going Home" is a happy song, because there's no such thing as an unhappy song, and we have nothing to talk about.

In my point of view, a sad song is a song that makes me feel sad or sad-like feelings. As simple as that. It can be because of the lyrics, circumstances, melody, etc. A song that delivers a sad story and emotions. Usually, when I listen to a song, I'm more emotional than rational, and I don't think about the artist writing them. I think about the protagonist in them, and I feel their emotions. And a sad, yet optimistic song might be a sad one with a happy ending, for one example. And this specific movie, I don't have a solid opinion whether it's happy, sad, neutral.. So I wanted to hear you guys :)

Anyway, as interesting as this philosophical discussion is, I feel like we're more in agreement than not since you did understand my question in a way that aligns with my meaning of a "sad song."

Yes, this is highly philosophical indeed, but not surprising since the subject itself is psychological and philosophical. We can take something that's famous for its sadness, like Albinoni's "Adagio in G minor", or the theme of the movie "Schindler's List", which is one of the saddest things humanity ever created, and try to analyse it. And like the war itself is probably the worst and the saddest thing humanity ever "created" as well, and still creates, in fact, war is, unfortunately, a big part of human civilisation and always will be. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's how you look at things.

World War II gave us the technology and experience to launch, and get people into space, for instance. With the same piece of wood, you can either build a frame for a masterpiece, or a handle for an axe to cut someone's head off, “To every man is given the key to the gates of heaven; the same key opens the gates of hell.”

So this is what I meant by the ultimate happiness of any piece of art, even a very sad one. It's your choice, really. It can move you to tears, and it can be sad, or dark, but no matter what your choice is, life goes on, the sun will rise and shine, there should be laughter after pain, and there should be sunshine after rain.

And at the moment, Local Hero's ending could be sad or unhappy, which I don't think happened there, just like "Schindler's List" can leave you in a sea of tears, but you need to be able to leave everything behind and keep going, and celebrate the joy of being alive on planet Earth. Everybody deserves a Christmas present as Mark sang, "Gifts for each and every one In the Ragpicker's dream", it's about dignity, it's about happiness, it's about optimism in the best sense of the word.


OfflineRobson

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2023, 06:43:15 PM »
A very interesting discussion. Much depends on our attitude. How much optimism, how much pessimism in us? Is Mark an optimist? I don't know. But many of his songs are sad. Often the joyful and optimistic ones also sound reflective. Maybe MK's voice makes this sad stories.
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

OfflineRobson

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2023, 07:08:48 PM »
"Everybody deserves a Christmas present as Mark sang, "Gifts for each and every one In the Ragpicker's dream", it's about dignity, it's about happiness, it's about optimism in the best sense of the word"

Beautiful comment. Dignity often returns in MK songs, even as simple as Quality Shoe.
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

OfflineSam96

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2023, 09:41:15 PM »

And at the moment, Local Hero's ending could be sad or unhappy, which I don't think happened there, just like "Schindler's List" can leave you in a sea of tears, but you need to be able to leave everything behind and keep going, and celebrate the joy of being alive on planet Earth. Everybody deserves a Christmas present as Mark sang, "Gifts for each and every one In the Ragpicker's dream", it's about dignity, it's about happiness, it's about optimism in the best sense of the word.


A very interesting discussion. Much depends on our attitude. How much optimism, how much pessimism in us? Is Mark an optimist? I don't know. But many of his songs are sad. Often the joyful and optimistic ones also sound reflective. Maybe MK's voice makes this sad stories.

I can surely relate to that.
It reminds me of an interview with MK and he was asked why he's so gloomy, he said he is not, and that he is a very happy man and he just sound sad while singing :)
If there's whiskey in the bottle
Leave some for me
I'll get to it, eventually

OfflineSam96

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Re: Local Hero 40th Anniversary
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2023, 10:29:05 PM »
I really don't know how on earth it's the first time I'm watching this interview, but he actually talks about the happiness in Going Home and that it is what the producer asked it to be (around 1:45min in). so cool!

If there's whiskey in the bottle
Leave some for me
I'll get to it, eventually

 

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