Revelation about BiA album from bass player Neil Jason

[dustyvalentino]

Love Corn Beef City.

I just find it bizarre that MK has five professional musicians playing guitar in his act but they need a sample for that part.

[Chris W]

I don't know the part, but a sample usually has a sound of it's own. That's usually the reason people are using them.

[Jules]

I don't know the part, but a sample usually has a sound of it's own. That's usually the reason people are using them.

It is just a distorted guitar riff that repeats on an infinite loop, not many notes really, totally understandable that they used a sample instead of someone playing that.

[Matchstickman]

I don't know the part, but a sample usually has a sound of it's own. That's usually the reason people are using them.

It is just a distorted guitar riff that repeats on an infinite loop, not many notes really, totally understandable that they used a sample instead of someone playing that.

Except for the fact that if you have someone play it, it will actually sound, you know, LIVE 

[Jules]

I don't know the part, but a sample usually has a sound of it's own. That's usually the reason people are using them.

It is just a distorted guitar riff that repeats on an infinite loop, not many notes really, totally understandable that they used a sample instead of someone playing that.

Except for the fact that if you have someone play it, it will actually sound, you know, LIVE 

I don't give a s*** to have someone playing that filling riff live, I actually don't like it at all!

[quizzaciously]

I don't know the part, but a sample usually has a sound of it's own. That's usually the reason people are using them.

It is just a distorted guitar riff that repeats on an infinite loop, not many notes really, totally understandable that they used a sample instead of someone playing that.

Except for the fact that if you have someone play it, it will actually sound, you know, LIVE 

I don't give a s*** to have someone playing that filling riff live, I actually don't like it at all!

I think the problem with this riff, which are many, is as follows: 1) You need an extra electric guitar in an open tuning to play it; 2) It's kind of tricky to play as it requires some fingerpicking, not simply strumming; 3) Not only that, it also has a wah-wah effect, gotta think about it as well; 4) As it's so prominent and recognisable in the song, the slightest mistake will stick out like a sore thumb, so better to play it perfectly each time.

So not only do you need to bring an extra guitar and pedal just for this riff and somebody skilled to play it, but it has to be good too. So you either take it out of the arrangement completely, like something Mark did in the early DS or just ask Guy to play a sample, it's so much easier. Overall, a great solution for this particular song. Hats off here, no critique at all. A perfect solution to a problem that not many people would even notice.

[Chris W]

Anyone who plays with Mark has to be a superior player, capable of playing any part, especially any part Mark originally played with his fingers. That's just a given.
Guitarists carry numerous pedals, as well as using amp modelling boxes that include fx.
So the key here is that the sampled riff has to have some vibe (sound and feel combo) that just isn't the same when played live.
Most drummers can play any drum loop live, but it is the sound and vibe of drum loops that make them different to a real player playing the part.

[Matchstickman]

I think that the explanation is simple: Mark felt that the riff oozed Mark Knopfler, and so did not want another player to play it. (Of course Richard could.)

Remember that, one of Guy's stated reasons for not doing Silvertown Blues live (many years ago) was that there were several MK guitar parts played simultaneously.

[quizzaciously]

I think Chris might underestimate the difficulty of Mark's stuff a little bit. I witnessed firsthand people who can breeze through the guitar playing amazing complicated jazz, or metal stuff but struggle like a beginner while playing some of the MK riffs. It's not easy stuff to play! So just having a great player in your band isn't enough, you practically need to clone Mark to pull some of the stuff off. I believe there are no musicians who can play truly anything.

I think that the explanation is simple: Mark felt that the riff oozed Mark Knopfler, and so did not want another player to play it. (Of course Richard could.)

Remember that, one of Guy's stated reasons for not doing Silvertown Blues live (many years ago) was that there were several MK guitar parts played simultaneously.

So yes, something along these lines.

[Chris W]

I think Chris might underestimate the difficulty of Mark's stuff a little bit.

Really???
Don't forget I rehearsed with DS for three months. At no point did Phil Palmer struggle to play anything Mark asked him to play.
Do you think Mark hires any guitarist that can't play anything he wants them to play?

[quizzaciously]

I think Chris might underestimate the difficulty of Mark's stuff a little bit.

Really???
Don't forget I rehearsed with DS for three months. At no point did Phil Palmer struggle to play anything Mark asked him to play.
Do you think Mark hires any guitarist that can't play anything he wants them to play?

Not at all! They're brilliant guitar players. I meant that you can't ask somebody to go out and play something like the "Money For Nothing" riff for Mark, it's something only he can and should do (on his show anyway). I think this little riff bears some distinctive MK style that only he can replicate, so it's either his way or the highway. It's not strumming Privateering like Richard or playing On Every Street like Phil is what I meant. It's not difficult, just too MK, or as you said, with a sound of its own.

[Chris W]

I meant that you can't ask somebody to go out and play something like the "Money For Nothing" riff for Mark,

You can, and people do.
My point was a sampled loop 'electronically' sounds different to a player playing the part. If you think they sampled the guitar on this song because no one else could play it well enough I'd say you were 100% wrong.

[Silvertown]

Mark's style of playing is so different from many others that although there are people who can play the same notes it is VERY difficult to make it sound like Mark.

[Chris W]

None of which means they have to sample a guitar loop on one song - which is what we are talking about.

[dustyvalentino]

None of which means they have to sample a guitar loop on one song - which is what we are talking about.

Correct. And I will respectfully disagree with my good friend jbaent. I don't consider it to be a minor thing. It's the first thing you hear after the drums start the song and the main riff in the song:



A sample being played in a band where you have Richard, Guy, John and Mike all playing guitar at different points.

And I don't buy the argument that they didn't want to set up another guitar for this "minor" part in a song - they brought another electric for John to play a tiny part in Prairie Wedding (I think), and Mike played a white electric on one track as well.