Manu Katche speaks about working with MK

[mariosboss]

We all know Mark was not in a good place in his personal life around the making and touring of the On Every Street album, and he may have taken it out on other people, if that was intentional or not I don't know because I wasn't there!! But, really, hasn't everyone gone through bad times in their life?

I got divorced against my will in the mid-90's. I was devastated and in a dark place for years, but day to day I treated people around me with respect.
I gave up drums after the OES tour (that tells you something).
I worked for ten years in film and tv and you won't find anyone who says I was a bully, difficult to be around or ever unreasonable.

I was going to argue the comment about Mark not being in a good place in his personal life but you sum it up well. This is not really a suitable excuse like you have just mentioned. In fact a test of a person is when the going gets tough. When things are going smoothly that's easy. I have been in dark dark places yet my work collegues (in tv production funnily enough) would never in a million years have guessed. I always treat them well, with respect and quite often upbeat even if i'm feeling down inside. On the flipside in production i've worked with people that just bring the mood down, are often highly critical and lack tact to say the very least causing much unwarranted anxiety amongst other issues. Not good.

[wakeywakey]

What is the point in dissing people decades after the event?
Manu didn't enjoy the session but got the job done,got paid and refused the tour.
Mark created a decent album and live show,continued to be unreasonable and didn't get what he wanted for dinner.
All the musicians got paid well and those he upset took that money and run.
Everyone "won."

Deary deary me. What a laughable post.
First of all do you expect Chris or Manu to just lie?
Secondly - taking the money and run? So I suppose you would stop in the middle of a tour and stand your ground, leave, not get paid your full
payment leaving you in limbo yet nothing changes going forward with regards to the tour environment or worst still you leave forcing the tour to be cancelled? Blame falls on you and I bet as a fan you wouldn't have been happy with that last scenario.

Deal with the facts. MK is one of my top 4 guitarists of all time and 2 of DS albums in my top 10. It doesn't mean i'm deluded. It doesn't make him a hero or a saint. In fact it all makes sense with regards to the ins and outs and comings and goings regarding DS.

If you are going to be critical of a post make sure you understand what you are being critical about.
Taking the money and running,i.e. not working for MK again,is what some of the musicians did.Nothing wrong with getting well paid for working in an unhappy atmosphere.
Your comment completely misunderstood what I said but never mind!
As for your first "point"-no I don't expect people to lie but there is NOTHING to gain by dissing people decades after the event.MK in 90,91 and 92 wasn't a good person to work for but they got very well paid for the experience.Nearly everyone is life has to deal with shit bosses but they don't go on and on about it decades later.Why come on to a MK fans forum and start dissing him for what happened over 30 years ago?I know there have been some crazy comments from forum members about how it was none of MKs fault  but nobody in their right mind would believe that.
The bottom line of my post was that everybody "won" and they did so no idea what is laughable about it but perhaps you misunderstood this also?
Anyway surely this whole MK was no angel has been beaten to death by now so which 2 DS albums are in your top 10?Surely OES is not one of them:)

[Chris W]

Your whole point falls apart when it's not about the money.
As professional musicians we earn money from all our work. So you can draw a distinction  between earning $1000 a day with a really nice artist, thoroughly enjoying the process and feeling valued, against earning $1000 and feeling undervalued and criticised.

Decades later why should anyone care? You are 100% right.
Except podcasters want to interview Pick Withers, or Manu Katche and want to know what were the ups and downs in their careers. Again, there is still no need to spend pages arguing about it on a Mark Knopfler fan forum.
The only issue *I* have is when forum members try to rewrite the events, make stuff up to reinforce their fandom.
I'm generally trying to put the facts straight, from the perspective of someone who was in the room.
I didn't post the Manu video. I didn't comment and wasn't planning to comment until someone who wasn't at the session started to make excuses for the bad behaviour by *guessing* that Mark was looking for something from the drumming that he wasn't getting.

Here is the thing....
* I don't come on the forum to 'diss' an artist decades after the fact. I come on the forum to correct misinformation and guess work that often ends up in the subject (Manu in this case) unfairly characterised as not a nice person himself, or not good enough for the job.
I only joined the forum in the first place after I googled the OES tour to try and remember a date on the tour, only to see THIS forum's members debating who was the worst drummer Dire Straits ever had and my name came up.
I was being 'dissed' behind my back.
'Dissing decades after the fact' was something that happened at AMIT before anyone ever replied with some actual facts.

[Chris W]

Chris, Manu, Ed, and MK's dentist have all made it clear that he could be a very difficult person to deal with. A lot of very ambitions, high-achieving people are.

And generally don't talk about it unless asked.

I never start any of these threads and usually don't post anything unless people start making stuff up, or start guessing about situations they weren't present at.
Whenever I've been criticised about the OES tour, all I've ever said was I played what Mark wanted me to play.
When Joop mentioned the OES tour was somewhat 'professional', obviously hinting that it was more rock and roll in previous outings like the BIA tour, I'm not arguing that fact, I'm just saying the whole band played the way Mark wanted them to play.

And going back to 'wakeywakey's' point about taking the money again....
I don't know, maybe Mark could have gone out for more than a year on his own, playing the OES album and his greatest hits, solo guitar and voice and been hugely successful. But the 7 band members (not inc Mark and John) bust a gut every night to make that show what it was.
It started in arenas and ended in 60,000 capacity stadia, despite the OES album not selling as well as BIA.
After the final show there was no party, not even a "thank you guys" on the flight home.
Like I say, the mood of an employment situation is set from above and trickles down.

[Rolleyway Man]

All that really matters to me as a music fan, in the long run, is the end product. And for all the evident difficulties of the On Every Street era, it remains my favourite Dire Straits album and tour. And Chris is still my favourite Dire Straits drummer. Always has been. So there you go Chris - all that pain and aggravation was worth it in the end!

Seriously though, let’s keep things in perspective here. We are talking about events that occurred almost 35 years ago. Mark has moved on, and though I obviously don’t know the man, he has evidently got his feet back on the ground and bettered himself as a person since he went solo, and it shows in the quality and emotional depth of his music, which in my personal opinion is on a different level entirely to what he was producing with Dire Straits. And most of all, let’s remember why we became fans - because we loved the music. We can go into discussions about whatever might have been going on behind the scenes and various other minutiae, but all in all, it’s not really relevant. The music itself comes first. Enjoy it for what it is.

[Chris W]

The End 

[dustyvalentino]

Hi all, our friend Mr Ed Bicknell has been kind enough to contribute to this thread, the following posts are from him, many thanks Ed!

[dustyvalentino]

It’s  the beginning of the month so for me that means a visit to A Man In Tights to see what delusions are being hurled back and forth and a thread has popped up that passeth all understanding... ..namely the Manu Katche one, so let me try and put you right on a few things and then you can move on to some new topic ….



The interviewer in that clip is John De Christopher who for many years was Talent Relations Manager at the Avedis Zildjian Cymbal Co…..the best of the best in the cymbal world, a bit of a pal and a decent and enthusiastic chap with questionable musical taste based on that clip.

Nice. Not that I trust medical diagnostic skills, but he clearly suggested that Mark suffers from some degree of bipolar disorder. Interesting thought.

Manu is French so this is a language issue. I don't think he literally meant bi-polar…he was talking about M’s moods and in that time frame he’d have been entirely correct.

Genius drummer! I've always loved his work with Gabriel and saw them live together. Didn't he and Mark drink a beer after the session and make amends? It reminds me of the story of Phil Palmer recording the OES outro for hours on countless Strats, and then Mark letting the engineer pick a take, more or less not caring about it. Btw the fill Manu plays at 4:48 - 4:52 is the best part of "Heavy Fuel" imho.

I would go so far as to say Manu is as brilliant on his chosen instrument as M is on his..a giant of a player as any drummer with half a brain and tinnitus will tell you.
A total gentleman with the emphasis on “gentle” .
Beer…I think I've read somewhere else they did. 
Engineer comment….yes, not uncommon.

Nice. Not that I trust medical diagnostic skills, but he clearly suggested that Mark suffers from some degree of bipolar disorder. Interesting thought.

Well this is more of a character description than a diagnostic.

Mark was not in an happy time in his own personal life and he had a lot of pressure with relaunching one last time Dire Straits.

What I am ignoring is what Mark was looking for while recording.

I mean he had something in the head and was failing to get it done the way he wanted to.

Quite an usual thing for a creative person after all.

Agreed as per my first comment above…...that was what he was trying to get over I think.
What pressure? 
The “pressure” wasn’t any greater professionally speaking than anything DS had done before and he had a Division One team supporting and guiding him, just as he’d always had, at least until I quit. 

[dustyvalentino]

Mark was not in an happy time in his own personal life and he had a lot of pressure with relaunching one last time Dire Straits.
 

Again, I heard about Mark's 'difficult' character long before the OES sessions. Having worked with several big name artists I think it usually has more to do with selling millions of records, surrounding yourself with 'yes men' and thinking you are some kind of supreme being.

The relaunch of Dire Straits was entirely Mark's choice. Even John Illsley was shocked and surprised when the idea came up.
Manu is a world class drummer and it IS unusual for world class musicians to say they were so unhappy on a session they were minutes away from quitting.

As a general point I agree with virtually everything Chris has said in this thread and in ALL the comments he’s made on the site generally for as long as he’s been making them .
You're lucky to have him just as DS were.
As Chris says, OES was ENTIRELY Mark’s choice including the engineers, studio and musicians.
To be so unpleasant that Manu wanted to “go home” really is unforgivable, he turned up to do a professional job not be silently abused by effectively a complete stranger.

From 1:03:25

I don’t understand what was Manu’s problem, to be honest. Mark wanted to re-record a “perfectly recorded” drum track, and so what? Do you only re-record mistakes or failed tracks, or what? What if Mark just wanted a different sound? Is this prohibited?

Just from this short piece, I already feel like Manu is somewhat difficult to work with himself. Like, what’s your problem, dude? Just re-record the part, that’s all! We hired you to do that, right? Right? Too many takes? Tell it to actors who can do 100 takes.

And lol, it’s not bipolar, it’s called life. Life is a sine wave, and everyone will feel bad one day and better the other day. When you feel bad, mood swings are to be expected. I’ve been through troubled times in my life (and am currently going through one of those), and I must admit, sometimes (rarely), I wasn’t particularly kind to some people in very particular situations where they might be slightly wrong, and I overreacted. Shit happens!

Yours truly,
Devil’s Mark Knopfler’s advocate

Mark’s negative attitude from the moment he ( Mark ) walked into the studio.
Surely you get that?
You're a master at missing the point.
You weren’t there, you don’t know the personalities involved, you have zero idea of how all this works just like some of your colleagues who make speculative statements based on NO knowledge, just uninformed guesswork.
By that I mean the process involved when the artist is at the top of the pile, is in the best studio with the best engineers, has no financial limits, has a fantastic support team to make his tea and STILL behaves like a complete plonker.
“ Manu is difficult to work with”.
How would you know?
You don’t.
You couldn’t be further from the truth.
He DID NOT complain about the number of takes in that clip.
I was at part of that session. I don’t think there were more than three per song from memory …that’s NOT what he was referring to.
I’m sorry you're going thru a hard time …I think I have an inkling of what that is, I hope it works out for you.

[dustyvalentino]

Mark was not in an happy time in his own personal life and he had a lot of pressure with relaunching one last time Dire Straits.
 

Again, I heard about Mark's 'difficult' character long before the OES sessions. Having worked with several big name artists I think it usually has more to do with selling millions of records, surrounding yourself with 'yes men' and thinking you are some kind of supreme being.

The relaunch of Dire Straits was entirely Mark's choice. Even John Illsley was shocked and surprised when the idea came up.
Manu is a world class drummer and it IS unusual for world class musicians to say they were so unhappy on a session they were minutes away from quitting.

Exactly! I cannot believe many posters still try and doubt or question someone like Manu (or yourself on various other threads to be perfectly honest.) I've also read one or two interviews years back with Manu telling a similar story. In fact this one has a more positive vibe towards Mark!

What people have to also remember is context, and actually above all how Dire Straits/Knopfler helped the certain artist in the future... for example those former band members who have been able to tell their truths/stories without bias:

Kache: The Dire Straits/sessions didn't eleviate Manu... he continued to work with numerous top players... he can be as honest and open as he wants.
Yourself: Same as above in some respects... appreciate you would have been paid fairly well... but if anything as i've read from you in the past, it put you off the stadium / live / band tour set-up. Had you been involved with another band at that time you may have continued and earned more money or respect etc elsewhere and your trajectory could have been different.
Palmer: Top session musician, can be as open as he wants to be
David K: sadly

Musicians who felt an allegiance to Mark or held him key to their own career/success so therefore won't speak negative of him:
Guy: obvious reasons
John I: same as above
Terry Williams: didn't play in any established bands after, in fact he was very humble about being replaced by Omar Hakim during the BIA sessions, bless him. Probably thought that he had won the lottery playing in that huge world tour. Top Rock 'n Roll drummer but not Neil Dorfsman's go-to on the drums.
Hal: Probably earned more money from one of his tv musical compositions than in his time in Dire Straits, so probably sees the DS period as a key stepping stone. In fact i'm sure that i've read articles about this, and of course what with Ed's back-story Hal may have felt a tad embarrassed by it all so he has always come across as positive regarding his time with DS and MK. Let's be honest Mark gave him a chance and Hal took it but went on to be successful in his own right. Talented chap.

Jack Sonni just to add seemed to have had various views about his time with DS and MK. Both positive and sadly negative. God rest his soul.

Look, Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits especially the albums Making Movies, Love Over Gold and Brothers In Arms had a deep influence on me as a kid. I used to mime on my tennis raquet being Mark Knopfler, wearing a headband too. haha! Especially on the deeper cuts like Telegraph Road, Skateaway, It Never Rains, Man's Too Big... and as I grew older and got into slightly heavier music I probably unfairly dismissed the early days with Pick and the more subtle compositions and playing... I loved the On The Night era partly because of Chris's drumming and energy which was the perfect juxtoposition compared with Mark, John who aren't exactly the most liveliest of players. That's partly why I liked Jack Sonni (RIP), Hal, Joop. Also having been in bands (albeit amateur ones) I appreciate that it's not all plain sailing. I nearly quit music because of one particular band mate, and his negativity towards me.

I still appreciate Mark as a songwriter, guitarist and lyricist and i'm sure he has mellowed over time, but I can also imagine how difficult he was to work with. The test of a person is when the going gets tough. Like a football manager if you are winning matches and everything is fine then great but when you start losing that's when difficulties set in. You can still deal with those issues respectfully and lead a team without being a dictator.

I'm not quite sure what your point is re the two groups of musicians you list.
That one lot can speak freely and the other not so much?
If I'm correct then I guess you're right depending again on the personalities though no one is preventing any of them saying anything they want and it WAS a long time ago.   
Your last para here is correct I think.

[dustyvalentino]

I always wondered if in this alternative version, always called like "demo" (I'm not sure if it's really a demo) that in a bootleg was labeled as recorded in february 1992, is Jeff Porcaro playing:



Manu says Jeff's version had only two or three fills, this one doesn't have as much as Manu's version, but I don't know if that's enough to think this version is Jeff's one or not.

Maybe Ed would remember if he listened to it?

I've listened to that several times. It's not a demo as such, more a recorded run through I'd say…. I’m guessing. No idea which of them it is …..based on the cymbal sounds I'd say Jeff but don’t know.
I wonder how it got onto You Tube.

I don’t understand what was Manu’s problem, to be honest. Mark wanted to re-record a “perfectly recorded” drum track, and so what?

Yeah, you don't understand. The problem Manu had with Mark was during the tracking of 'Planet Of New Orleans'.

Just from this short piece, I already feel like Manu is somewhat difficult to work with himself. Like, what’s your problem, dude? Just re-record the part, that’s all! We hired you to do that, right? Right? Too many takes? Tell it to actors who can do 100 takes.

Again, in desperately defending mark you've got the wrong end of the stick. Manu was not having a great day in the studio. Music is best made with joy and mutual respect right? So he's already experienced some bad vibes, then Mark asks him to re-record a track Porcaro had completed.
He doesn't refuse, he just tells Mark he thinks the Jeff version is perfect. Which is totally legitimate.
In fact when I heard 'Heavy Fuel' I totally thought it was Jeff playing on the track. It is very much different to Manu's usual way of playing.
When I've been on recording sessions and been presented with a song that is opposite to my way of playing I am upfront and honest with the artist and producer.
"You should probably hire someone else for this song". That is called being professional.
Manu is a renowned professional, known for being an amazing drummer and very nice guy.
It's probable he is a little sensitive and mostly worked with people who appreciated his talent and were positive towards him (Sting and Gabriel).
Apparently not Knopfler on this day.

I always wondered if in this alternative version, always called like "demo" (I'm not sure if it's really a demo) that in a bootleg was labeled as recorded in february 1992, is Jeff Porcaro playing:

The OES version of 'Heavy Fuel' always sounded exactly like Jeff to me. It's a groove and song that are right up Porcaro's street.
I don't know what the problem was. Mark had changed his mind about something on the original recording. Jeff had flown back to America so they had to find someone else to track the drums.
It's weird to me when Manu says he just went 'crazy' on the drum performance. It sounds like a very simple drum performance to me. yes there are some fills but nothing that is out of the ordinary for this kind of sing.
Heavy Fuel is OES' Money For Nothing, but not as good.

I always wondered if in this alternative version, always called like "demo" (I'm not sure if it's really a demo) that in a bootleg was labeled as recorded in february 1992, is Jeff Porcaro playing:

The OES version of 'Heavy Fuel' always sounded exactly like Jeff to me. It's a groove and song that are right up Porcaro's street.
I don't know what the problem was. Mark had changed his mind about something on the original recording. Jeff had flown back to America so they had to find someone else to track the drums.
It's weird to me when Manu says he just went 'crazy' on the drum performance. It sounds like a very simple drum performance to me. yes there are some fills but nothing that is out of the ordinary for this kind of sing.
Heavy Fuel is OES' Money For Nothing, but not as good.

I still appreciate Mark as a songwriter, guitarist and lyricist and i'm sure he has mellowed over time, but I can also imagine how difficult he was to work with.

I think you hit the nail on the head in just about every way.
It's sobering to watch the various podcasts on Youtube - Pick Withers for example.
The churn of band members, for whatever reason. The lack of members at the Rock n Roll Hall Of Fame ceremony.
In my experience, it's usually toxic to exclude band members from album sessions. Props to Terry for doing the BIA tour with good grace after being rejected at the studio sessions.
Look, at the end of the day Mark can be as difficult (maybe unpleasant) as he wants to be. No problem.
It's also OK for people to talk about their experiences and not OK to contradict them based on fandom rather than actually being there.

Correct on all points..ABSOLUTELY correct. .
He's really saying the same as me under 5 and you need to get real.

Mark was not in an happy time in his own personal life and he had a lot of pressure with relaunching one last time Dire Straits.
 

Again, I heard about Mark's 'difficult' character long before the OES sessions. Having worked with several big name artists I think it usually has more to do with selling millions of records, surrounding yourself with 'yes men' and thinking you are some kind of supreme being.

The relaunch of Dire Straits was entirely Mark's choice. Even John Illsley was shocked and surprised when the idea came up.
Manu is a world class drummer and it IS unusual for world class musicians to say they were so unhappy on a session they were minutes away from quitting.

Exactly! I cannot believe many posters still try and doubt or question someone like Manu (or yourself on various other threads to be perfectly honest.) I've also read one or two interviews years back with Manu telling a similar story. In fact this one has a more positive vibe towards Mark!

What people have to also remember is context, and actually above all how Dire Straits/Knopfler helped the certain artist in the future... for example those former band members who have been able to tell their truths/stories without bias:

Kache: The Dire Straits/sessions didn't eleviate Manu... he continued to work with numerous top players... he can be as honest and open as he wants.
Yourself: Same as above in some respects... appreciate you would have been paid fairly well... but if anything as i've read from you in the past, it put you off the stadium / live / band tour set-up. Had you been involved with another band at that time you may have continued and earned more money or respect etc elsewhere and your trajectory could have been different.
Palmer: Top session musician, can be as open as he wants to be
David K: sadly

Musicians who felt an allegiance to Mark or held him key to their own career/success so therefore won't speak negative of him:
Guy: obvious reasons
John I: same as above
Terry Williams: didn't play in any established bands after, in fact he was very humble about being replaced by Omar Hakim during the BIA sessions, bless him. Probably thought that he had won the lottery playing in that huge world tour. Top Rock 'n Roll drummer but not Neil Dorfsman's go-to on the drums.
Hal: Probably earned more money from one of his tv musical compositions than in his time in Dire Straits, so probably sees the DS period as a key stepping stone. In fact i'm sure that i've read articles about this, and of course what with Ed's back-story Hal may have felt a tad embarrassed by it all so he has always come across as positive regarding his time with DS and MK. Let's be honest Mark gave him a chance and Hal took it but went on to be successful in his own right. Talented chap.

Jack Sonni just to add seemed to have had various views about his time with DS and MK. Both positive and sadly negative. God rest his soul.

Look, Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits especially the albums Making Movies, Love Over Gold and Brothers In Arms had a deep influence on me as a kid. I used to mime on my tennis raquet being Mark Knopfler, wearing a headband too. haha! Especially on the deeper cuts like Telegraph Road, Skateaway, It Never Rains, Man's Too Big... and as I grew older and got into slightly heavier music I probably unfairly dismissed the early days with Pick and the more subtle compositions and playing... I loved the On The Night era partly because of Chris's drumming and energy which was the perfect juxtoposition compared with Mark, John who aren't exactly the most liveliest of players. That's partly why I liked Jack Sonni (RIP), Hal, Joop. Also having been in bands (albeit amateur ones) I appreciate that it's not all plain sailing. I nearly quit music because of one particular band mate, and his negativity towards me.

I still appreciate Mark as a songwriter, guitarist and lyricist and i'm sure he has mellowed over time, but I can also imagine how difficult he was to work with. The test of a person is when the going gets tough. Like a football manager if you are winning matches and everything is fine then great but when you start losing that's when difficulties set in. You can still deal with those issues respectfully and lead a team without being a dictator.

Absolutely tragic that Terry never really played again. I loved his drumming, and I'm not even talking so much about DS, all those Rockpile (and adjacent) records, Girls Talk for example.

YES!

[dustyvalentino]

Yeah, you don't understand. The problem Manu had with Mark was during the tracking of 'Planet Of New Orleans'.

Manu is a renowned professional, known for being an amazing drummer and very nice guy.
It's probable he is a little sensitive and mostly worked with people who appreciated his talent and were positive towards him (Sting and Gabriel).
Apparently not Knopfler on this day.

Of course, I noticed he was talking about one song while listening to a completely different song and describing going "crazy" with it without anything crazy about it at all, which confused everyone, yourself included. I'd say that's a perfect example when, even if you were there, which is your favourite argument, things aren't exactly clear sometimes because you were there 35-ish years ago.

I bet if you'd cue Mark or Neil in this part of the interview, they would describe what really has happened and how both Manu and Mark overreacted at the time. I still think Manu's problem, whatever that was, wasn't enough to justify calling working with Mark difficult or toxic. I'm sure Manu is a cool guy, and I love jazz and French musicians, I'm just not sold on the difficulty factor.

Okay, if Mark is difficult to work with and toxic, what about people who are notoriously incredibly difficult to work with? Like Van Morrison? Or Chuck Berry? I think Mark is a freaking saint compared to these guys.

He wasn’t listening to anything in that clip until John DC cued up Heavy Fuel. 
“Crazy” is a language thing.
He meant relative to how he normally played so he’s right, Manu comes from the more subtle school ( though he can play anything if required , as here.)
Mark/Neil, no they wouldn’t, they’d have long forgotten and Manu didn't use the word toxic unless I misheard (which you’ve quoted twice).
The fact that he ( and Jeff Porcaro) both turned down the tour ought to tell you something, Jeff had the same management as Vince Gill so I’m guessing Vince heard what Jeff thought ( he was way, WAY more pissed off than Manu and maybe that influenced Vince’s decision? ( I know he’s given other reasons in interviews.)
Van M is COMPLETELY irrelevant.
Chuck Berry is DEAD.
You know Van do you or are you relying on ancient hearsay ?
What others might be like is no excuse.

We all know Mark was not in a good place in his personal life around the making and touring of the On Every Street album, and he may have taken it out on other people, if that was intentional or not I don't know because I wasn't there!! But, really, hasn't everyone gone through bad times in there life? I know I have, the difference is I didn't do it in front of the entire world. I am sure after putting Dire Straits to bed and going solo made Mark into a different person, in a good way, and I am sure his personal life improved greatly after marrying Kitty, who has turned out to be the love of his life. He went to Nashville and came back with the core musicians that formed his solo band for the best part of 30 years, the people who have a long recording history with many artists, they didn't have to play with Mark, they clearly wanted to, and they would not have stuck with him this long if he was still not easy to get along with!! why would they? Also, the like of Chet Atkins and Emmylou Harris have only ever had good things to say about it him, so, some people clash for whatever reason, but Mark has found the people who he likes to be around in his personal and professional life, so, that's great for him.

Ah. Someone who acknowledges he doesn’t know because he wasn’t there. KUDOS!
You are perceptive and correct on all points especially regarding Kitty who changed his life and as you say, good for him . 

I bet if you'd cue Mark or Neil in this part of the interview, they would describe what really has happened and how both Manu and Mark overreacted at the time. I still think Manu's problem, whatever that was, wasn't enough to justify calling working with Mark difficult or toxic. I'm sure Manu is a cool guy, and I love jazz and French musicians, I'm just not sold on the difficulty factor.

Okay, if Mark is difficult to work with and toxic, what about people who are notoriously incredibly difficult to work with? Like Van Morrison? Or Chuck Berry? I think Mark is a freaking saint compared to these guys.

No offense, but what makes you think you have any basis for this to be true?  Mark's current bandmates claim that he's all sunshine and rainbows nowadays, but during the DS era he had a clearly established reputation as a control freak, and we have had multiple first-person accounts here on this board, either in person or in published interviews, attesting to the fact that Mark was basically insufferable around the time of OES recording and tour.  Citing Van Morrison and Chuck Berry as "difficult" doesn't exclude Mark from that category.  Claiming this was somehow "Manu's problem" seems like a combination of rank speculation, wishful thinking and hero worship.

Honestly, I just don't see the point of defending "the dark side of MK", so I do the next best thing and act as a devil's advocate. Amazing songs were written by a visionary artist and recorded perfectly by brilliant professional musicians and engineers, and a giant tour was executed without a single missed date, making millions of people happy, including myself (I've killed my DVD copy of On The Night by playing it too much).

When I see all these interviews claiming MK was difficult to work with, blah, blah, blah, I cringe like crazy. Nobody seems to feel empathy towards Knopfler and focuses all their attention on his "victims" by grouping whom you can form a chamber orchestra, it seems. I'm a big fan of this thing called "result", and if the result is this great, the proverbial evil side of Mark doesn't impress me at all.

From Joop de Korte's interview, we learned that Mark is the kind of guy who throws away the clothes he just recorded a live album with, and unfortunately, you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs, and you can't please everybody. I see nearly ALL "bad" things that Mark did as reasonable. Maybe because I'm just a bit ruthless and cynical myself, but what I'm interested in the most is the result.

No you don’t. You express what YOU think under the guise of being DA.
There were no victims as I understand that word…we are not talking about a plane crash.
Second para is incorrect…he’s drowning in empathy on this site.
But, I’ll give you one thing, does it matter that Elvis died falling off a toilet full of drugs ( Elvis not the toilet )? NO .
The results are there, in Presley’s case in spades ( mixed in with some complete junk eg the mid career movie soundtracks ) .
Joop gives good interview.
Great guy but he never knew where the ONE was 🥱 so his audition for James Brown failed miserably.

I think MKs music was better when he was a more of a control freak.  OES sounds like it went too far though and there was an arrogance in approach. Being a control freak also doesn't mean he was good to work with... from Manu's accounts (of which I've also heard a different earlier interview) the studio vibes were BAD on that day. In my experience as someone who has put out records on a very small scale, that atmosphere doesn't lead to a good outcome. The fact that Manu still pulled off the job shows what kind of league he is in as a player.

MKs solo band might not complain, but he seems to hold them in some kind of reverance as mainly stateside musicians with country roots of some kind : probably because they are also so adaptable, and let's not forget they all started of from the same position... as hired sidemen rather than Dire Straits which was band mates and eventual fill in hires.

Losing Terry in my view tipped the balance too far in my view away from the original soul of the heyday of the group. Whilst he didn't contribute lots to BIA album-wise what he did do was probably one of the best rock drum intros recorded ever on Monry For Nothing, and can't help thinking Heavy Fuel is the kind of straight rock track that he'd nail.

That’s funny. Very. Maybe you are correct, I never thought of it that way.
On THAT day only?
After Jeff P left his wonderful manager Larry Fitzgerald ( Toto’s ) called me to let me know how much Jeff hated the sessions and thought Mark “rude and difficult” ( plus a few other choice comments ) and was passing on the tour invite which I hadn’t even been told about. 
I was really gutted by that since Porcaro was a hero for sure, I had worked with him on a Steely Dan UK tour I set up in 1974 so I’d seen his stunning live performances close up ( he was SIXTEEN then! )
I’d say you are correct re the Dull ddddddd…no! I mustn’t say it.
The dynamic M had with them was completely different to the one he had with the OES band lineup.
With hindsight I think that’s correct assuming BIA was the “heyday” ..I do remember that every DAY someone shouted “ HEY ! ,” at them.
Mostly waiters they hadn’t tipped.

[dustyvalentino]

I think MKs music was better when he was a more of a control freak.  OES sounds like it went too far though and there was an arrogance in approach. Being a control freak also doesn't mean he was good to work with... from Manu's accounts (of which I've also heard a different earlier interview) the studio vibes were BAD on that day. In my experience as someone who has put out records on a very small scale, that atmosphere doesn't lead to a good outcome. The fact that Manu still pulled off the job shows what kind of league he is in as a player.

MKs solo band might not complain, but he seems to hold them in some kind of reverance as mainly stateside musicians with country roots of some kind : probably because they are also so adaptable, and let's not forget they all started of from the same position... as hired sidemen rather than Dire Straits which was band mates and eventual fill in hires.

Losing Terry in my view tipped the balance too far in my view away from the original soul of the heyday of the group. Whilst he didn't contribute lots to BIA album-wise what he did do was probably one of the best rock drum intros recorded ever on Monry For Nothing, and can't help thinking Heavy Fuel is the kind of straight rock track that he'd nail.

I agree 100% that you achieve a better result by being a control freak, also known as a perfectionist, not to be confused with a micromanager. I don't think that a tidy and cosy atmosphere in a creative environment guarantees a great result, though. Sometimes, it guarantees only the lack of the result as everybody's too chill and relaxed. There's a balance to these things, and certainly, this balance was compromised at this time because of all that was happening in M's life.

Another thing that I feel is more important than the result is how you deal with your mistakes. As you can be a control freak only for so long, and it really wears off your mind and nerves, so instead of being a control freak all the time, just hire a band consisting of people with 500 years of combined playing experience. You simply won't ever need to be a control freak in this situation. There were no more Dire Straits after OES, which means all the lessons have been learned.

"Better result by being a control freak "….wrong again!
Wow, you really have no idea how it all works do you, but you are right re getting the correct balance. 
Perfectionists are not necessarily control freaks and I've dealt with both.
I don’t consider M to have been a control freak ( whatever that is ) although maybe there were those who felt that about him during that period, Chris might, he’s alluded to it.
I never felt he was at any point in our dealings together, not in 23 years and actually not even a perfectionist ( M would frequently deny that back then to journalists etc ) .
His sense of humour took care of all that.
Alot of stuff was just allowed to be however it turned out in the moment, both of us are/were fans of spontaneity ( and convenience).
“Perfection” frequently leads to musical cabaret.
After the 6 weeks of rehearsals we did as the NHB’s right before the first show on the first night he said “ ok, forget everything you’ve learned and have a good time” , which we did, mistakes and all.
Your philosophy concerning mistakes has some underlying truth I guess ( see, you can get it right and I am NOT trying to patronise you) though I do not think that "ALL the lessons have been learned" and 100% M wouldn’t think that.
You NEVER stop learning in life ..that’s when you die ( and maybe not even then ) .

We should come up with a top 10 list of musicians who have a reputation for being tossers and see if MK would get on it.

Van M
Ginger Baker
Chuck Berry
Lou Reed

(I've actually queued to get autographs from both Chuck and Lou after shows and they were both fine).

Roger Waters.

Bob Dylan.

Ginger Baker. Number 1.
No contest.
The biggest TWAT I ever met in music and a total musical snob.
Really unpleasant, socially inept and a bit pathetic I thought.
But as Erica Clapped Out says, “ he had the gift ” ( ie he could count to one).

Sure....but that isn't the point.
I don't really want to start a negative discussion as a thing in of itself.
When people say something didn't happen, or if it did it was justified, I often jump in to correct the facts.
When people claim Manu wasn't a good enough drummer, or was a having a bad day himself.....I have to defend the guy, not as an emotion, but based on the facts as experienced by more than one other drummer.

Completely agree.
Any idea that Manu ( or Pick, or Terry, or Omar, or Jeff or Chris  ) wasn’t good enough is just moronic.
That just leaves me then…🤡

You are always arguing...
But anyway, yes, obviously Van Morrison has a very bad reputation amongst musicians.
It's like saying if you don't like Jack the Ripper what do you say about Vlad The Impaler?
It's just silly....and of course reaching for the most fanciful excuses to explain bullying and bad behaviour.

Dear Chris, I'm not arguing, and somehow, you always find ways to stab me with your umbrella. Years go by, and I'm still waiting for the moment when Chris will finally say at least a single nice word about me Who's bullying?

But jokes aside, seriously, there are no winners on discussion forums, there are only survivors. There's no need to be so defensive of our opinions, I guess, let alone you can't "draw the line" under something, as you've said in the "grumpy artists" thread.

One of my favourite phrases that was used on one of the Soviet posters during WWII was something like "do your revenge on the workbench", meaning if you feel injustice, put the energy into your work instead of wasting it on something else. Let's drink to turn our negativity into something positive.

I’ll leave it to the two of you to sort yourselves out ( you CAN’T be serious about not arguing..).
I LOVE your notion about survivors. LOVE IT.

Cilla Black (big pop star in the 60s) was an awful person by multiple accounts.

Ed mentioned that Gerry Rafferty was difficult to work with but an alcoholic an undiagnosed bipolar.

Strangely I knew Cilla RIP quite well over many years. Yes, she lost her charm bracelet in the Cavern cloakroom ( get the reference ?) .
Gerry….hmmm….some days nice, some an ass.
 Like most of us then 👺

[dustyvalentino]

Cilla Black (big pop star in the 60s) was an awful person by multiple accounts.

Ed mentioned that Gerry Rafferty was difficult to work with but an alcoholic an undiagnosed bipolar.

I guess quite a ton of artists are difficult to work with, probably most of them, and that's actually to be expected. As many of you know, the average intelligence level of human beings is pretty low, so I wouldn't expect everybody to act as ladies and gentlemen, especially people with a lot of money and power. In fact, in most cases, money and fame will just show you what this person was all about, it doesn't change a person.

And in another act of defending Mark, you don't need to be Einstein to know it wasn't money or fame that turned Mark into a "bully", the guy just got haunted by bad luck.

Finally! A sense of humour emerges .
Yep. I think being “difficult” is almost a requirement but being a total dick is NOT, as always in the human condition, it’s a matter of degree.
Now. You have COMPLETELY lost me.
 “ Bad luck ”? What bad luck?
On life's scales his good luck outweighs the bad massively. 
Your knowledge of M’s personality is impressive given you’ve never met him as far as I know.
Don’t understand that comment at all.

I see nearly ALL "bad" things that Mark did as reasonable.

I guess English isn't your first language.
You claim not to be dismissing 'the victims', you claim not to be arguing with the facts.

I'm not claiming anything. I'm just having fun on a fan forum while enjoying some pineapple juice. There are two kinds of people in this world. Those who think words on a fan forum are set in stone and will reverberate for eternity. And those who think it's a platform for sharing opinions, digging for deeper meanings, finding hidden gems.

If you want to declare a 100% truth, no problem, write a book. But even so, it will only be like just your opinion, man. What is the truth, anyway? I've witnessed so many times people who WERE THERE straight up telling lies. Only because you were there doesn't mean your opinion is the only opinion in the world.

The human factor is still there. You can forget things, you can misinterpret things, you can dislike a person, but you can not stop people from having different opinions. And I never dismissed information from people who were there, I just expressed how I see the situation. My sincerest apologies for any errors in my speech and any misunderstandings that may arise as a result for I am no native English speaker.

Sometimes Pavel, you disappear up your own arse in your search for fun.…what Chris is saying, what I’m saying, is that we were there, in my case for the whole DS ride, and neither of us is in the habit of telling lies or making things up, we don't need to.
Opinions are fine but they need to be based on facts, on actualities , yours are based on nothing or am I missing something? .

And in another act of defending Mark, you don't need to be Einstein to know it wasn't money or fame that turned Mark into a "bully", the guy just got haunted by bad luck.

Eh? There's no doubt that MK had/has a huge amount of talent but I'm sure he would admit he had a huge amount of luck along the way as well.

EXACTLY!

In my (actual) experience, many artists are pretty nice and reasonable. Of course they have their off days.
One thing that turns artists from humble to egotistical is selling millions of records and winning lots of accolades, but it doesn't always damage them.

I agree. 90% of the artists I've worked with have been positive experiences….creative, great people , intelligent, kind, funny, really interesting, many verbally disgusting ( great ) , but some for sure have gone from all of that to being narcissistic wankers because of fame, money and celebrity, and THEN come out the other end when they realise…or someone they respect tells them….it’s all a load of crap.
I wonder if Roger Waters respects anyone ……

What is the point in dissing people decades after the event?
Manu didn't enjoy the session but got the job done,got paid and refused the tour.
Mark created a decent album and live show,continued to be unreasonable and didn't get what he wanted for dinner.
All the musicians got paid well and those he upset took that money and run.
Everyone "won."

Because somebody started this bloody thread and because John DeChristopher brought up Heavy Fuel to some French drummer who’s smile when he did said EVERYTHING.
I had to chuckle at that . 
I’m 100% sure that most musicians would rather not have been “ upset and run ”…..money alone is not compensation for being treated badly in any workplace let alone the creative arts.
So did they really “win”?

Dear Chris, I'm not arguing, and somehow, you always find ways to stab me with your umbrella. Years go by, and I'm still waiting for the moment when Chris will finally say at least a single nice word about me Who's bullying?

Mate. Chris has spent his life working as a pro musician, has a ton of insight about the workings of top-tier bands, and lived through an era of the band that we could otherwise only speculate about. Yet you're constantly contradicting his posts!

Chris, Manu, Ed, and MK's dentist have all made it clear that he could be a very difficult person to deal with. A lot of very ambitions, high-achieving people are. Having that information (and accepting it) is what makes forums like this valuable and entertaining, otherwise they just become deluded circle jerks.

LOVE IT!!!  M’s dentist or “ how to get a front cover on The Sun in one easy lesson”.
Someone who accepts that AMIT is 90% speculation and 10% inspiration.
You really do know all the chords don’t you?

What is the point in dissing people decades after the event?
Manu didn't enjoy the session but got the job done,got paid and refused the tour.
Mark created a decent album and live show,continued to be unreasonable and didn't get what he wanted for dinner.
All the musicians got paid well and those he upset took that money and run.
Everyone "won."

Deary deary me. What a laughable post.
First of all do you expect Chris or Manu to just lie?
Secondly - taking the money and run? So I suppose you would stop in the middle of a tour and stand your ground, leave, not get paid your full
payment leaving you in limbo yet nothing changes going forward with regards to the tour environment or worst still you leave forcing the tour to be cancelled? Blame falls on you and I bet as a fan you wouldn't have been happy with that last scenario.

Deal with the facts. MK is one of my top 4 guitarists of all time and 2 of DS albums in my top 10. It doesn't mean i'm deluded. It doesn't make him a hero or a saint. In fact it all makes sense with regards to the ins and outs and comings and goings regarding DS.

You have expressed so much better than I did a really valid point AND you “get it” ( your last para ….).
What Chris and I have been aiming at is for someone…anyone…to say “ it all makes sense ..re the comings and goings”.
Hally fucking loo yah.
AND a quiz. I love a quiz. 3 more guitarists for us to guess at….Erica Clapped Out? Jimi Hendrix? Stevie Ray Vaughan? Hank Marvin?  David Gilmour? Gary Clark Jnr. Susan Tedeschi?  Guitar George?  Steve Luthaker? Chet Atkins? Scotty Moore? The bloke who played “ Wipeout”?
Am I warm?

[dustyvalentino]

We all know Mark was not in a good place in his personal life around the making and touring of the On Every Street album, and he may have taken it out on other people, if that was intentional or not I don't know because I wasn't there!! But, really, hasn't everyone gone through bad times in their life?

I got divorced against my will in the mid-90's. I was devastated and in a dark place for years, but day to day I treated people around me with respect.
I gave up drums after the OES tour (that tells you something).
I worked for ten years in film and tv and you won't find anyone who says I was a bully, difficult to be around or ever unreasonable.

I was going to argue the comment about Mark not being in a good place in his personal life but you sum it up well. This is not really a suitable excuse like you have just mentioned. In fact a test of a person is when the going gets tough. When things are going smoothly that's easy. I have been in dark dark places yet my work collegues (in tv production funnily enough) would never in a million years have guessed. I always treat them well, with respect and quite often upbeat even if i'm feeling down inside. On the flipside in production i've worked with people that just bring the mood down, are often highly critical and lack tact to say the very least causing much unwarranted anxiety amongst other issues. Not good.

Same. Not asking for sympathy (at all ) but I’ve been at the professional bottom many times and not just OES, ( the Communique tour was way worse and for identical reasons in a way ) but you just have to keep going, and if you happen to be the head of an organisation it's vital to keep the morale of those you are working with at the highest level if you can.
That also applies in one’s personal life.
Chris’s comment re divorce struck a chord but not a chord that Guitar George ever learned ( you know, the coal-miner from Leeds ).
I’ve been extremely fortunate in my life to have a fantastic family and the most amazing partners and friends ..that's been worth way, way more than getting money for nothing.

What is the point in dissing people decades after the event?
Manu didn't enjoy the session but got the job done,got paid and refused the tour.
Mark created a decent album and live show,continued to be unreasonable and didn't get what he wanted for dinner.
All the musicians got paid well and those he upset took that money and run.
Everyone "won."

Deary deary me. What a laughable post.
First of all do you expect Chris or Manu to just lie?
Secondly - taking the money and run? So I suppose you would stop in the middle of a tour and stand your ground, leave, not get paid your full
payment leaving you in limbo yet nothing changes going forward with regards to the tour environment or worst still you leave forcing the tour to be cancelled? Blame falls on you and I bet as a fan you wouldn't have been happy with that last scenario.

Deal with the facts. MK is one of my top 4 guitarists of all time and 2 of DS albums in my top 10. It doesn't mean i'm deluded. It doesn't make him a hero or a saint. In fact it all makes sense with regards to the ins and outs and comings and goings regarding DS.

If you are going to be critical of a post make sure you understand what you are being critical about.
Taking the money and running,i.e. not working for MK again,is what some of the musicians did.Nothing wrong with getting well paid for working in an unhappy atmosphere.
Your comment completely misunderstood what I said but never mind!
As for your first "point"-no I don't expect people to lie but there is NOTHING to gain by dissing people decades after the event.MK in 90,91 and 92 wasn't a good person to work for but they got very well paid for the experience.Nearly everyone is life has to deal with shit bosses but they don't go on and on about it decades later.Why come on to a MK fans forum and start dissing him for what happened over 30 years ago?I know there have been some crazy comments from forum members about how it was none of MKs fault  but nobody in their right mind would believe that.
The bottom line of my post was that everybody "won" and they did so no idea what is laughable about it but perhaps you misunderstood this also?
Anyway surely this whole MK was no angel has been beaten to death by now so which 2 DS albums are in your top 10?Surely OES is not one of them:)

I’m going to step past this.
It’s more complicated than “dissing”....what I've said has been (a possibly misunderstood)  attempt at fact/situation checking.
Working with M changed my life and I changed his ..I like to think that for both of us that was a positive. It certainly was for me and I don’t mean financially.
But to get the overall picture, well the DS bit, you can't just say it was all fabulous, no hiccups at all, endless fun, especially when the dark bits lead to much of the music that was produced which is presumably why you're here in the first place, and in turn lead to the band’s dissolution and M’s solo career which is really what this site is about.
So to that extent the “dissing” IS the history, at least in part and I agree, time to drop I think.
Incidentally, if you read ANY music bios/watch any clips going back 50 years or more you will find mountains of “dissing” ..Mick and Keith, Pete and Roger, Francis Rossi ( ouch) , David G and Roger W ( oh boy) , Ian Anderson and Martin Barre, Drake and whoever the other one is , UB40, Oasis, on and on, it comes with the territory and there’s no time limit on it .

Your whole point falls apart when it's not about the money.
As professional musicians we earn money from all our work. So you can draw a distinction  between earning $1000 a day with a really nice artist, thoroughly enjoying the process and feeling valued, against earning $1000 and feeling undervalued and criticised.

Decades later why should anyone care? You are 100% right.
Except podcasters want to interview Pick Withers, or Manu Katche and want to know what were the ups and downs in their careers. Again, there is still no need to spend pages arguing about it on a Mark Knopfler fan forum.
The only issue *I* have is when forum members try to rewrite the events, make stuff up to reinforce their fandom.
I'm generally trying to put the facts straight, from the perspective of someone who was in the room.
I didn't post the Manu video. I didn't comment and wasn't planning to comment until someone who wasn't at the session started to make excuses for the bad behaviour by *guessing* that Mark was looking for something from the drumming that he wasn't getting.

Here is the thing....
* I don't come on the forum to 'diss' an artist decades after the fact. I come on the forum to correct misinformation and guess work that often ends up in the subject (Manu in this case) unfairly characterised as not a nice person himself, or not good enough for the job.
I only joined the forum in the first place after I googled the OES tour to try and remember a date on the tour, only to see THIS forum's members debating who was the worst drummer Dire Straits ever had and my name came up.
I was being 'dissed' behind my back.
'Dissing decades after the fact' was something that happened at AMIT before anyone ever replied with some actual facts.

Chris, Manu, Ed, and MK's dentist have all made it clear that he could be a very difficult person to deal with. A lot of very ambitions, high-achieving people are.

And generally don't talk about it unless asked.

I never start any of these threads and usually don't post anything unless people start making stuff up, or start guessing about situations they weren't present at.
Whenever I've been criticised about the OES tour, all I've ever said was I played what Mark wanted me to play.
When Joop mentioned the OES tour was somewhat 'professional', obviously hinting that it was more rock and roll in previous outings like the BIA tour, I'm not arguing that fact, I'm just saying the whole band played the way Mark wanted them to play.

And going back to 'wakeywakey's' point about taking the money again....
I don't know, maybe Mark could have gone out for more than a year on his own, playing the OES album and his greatest hits, solo guitar and voice and been hugely successful. But the 7 band members (not inc Mark and John) bust a gut every night to make that show what it was.
It started in arenas and ended in 60,000 capacity stadia, despite the OES album not selling as well as BIA.
After the final show there was no party, not even a "thank you guys" on the flight home.
Like I say, the mood of an employment situation is set from above and trickles down.

Chris has said beautifully what I’m too tired to put into words ( it’s 3 am).
Especially his second paragraph…people are INTERESTED. .
This site is FULL of people like that.
Are they wrong to want to know the gory details or would they prefer a sanitised version ?
Chris and I have the SAME motivation and in this thread it started as the consequence of a very recent interview with Manu where the host asked him specifically about a situation/session he’d obviously heard about elsewhere.
Why do you think he did that?
Was Manu supposed to say “ oh that was a perfect day, I had the best time, fantastic atmosphere” or was his honest response “dissing” ? 
Sorry but you are being wholly unrealistic and Chris’s last sentence beautifully sums this up.
In his response 48 ..I’m the same.

All that really matters to me as a music fan, in the long run, is the end product. And for all the evident difficulties of the On Every Street era, it remains my favourite Dire Straits album and tour. And Chris is still my favourite Dire Straits drummer. Always has been. So there you go Chris - all that pain and aggravation was worth it in the end!

Seriously though, let’s keep things in perspective here. We are talking about events that occurred almost 35 years ago. Mark has moved on, and though I obviously don’t know the man, he has evidently got his feet back on the ground and bettered himself as a person since he went solo, and it shows in the quality and emotional depth of his music, which in my personal opinion is on a different level entirely to what he was producing with Dire Straits. And most of all, let’s remember why we became fans - because we loved the music. We can go into discussions about whatever might have been going on behind the scenes and various other minutiae, but all in all, it’s not really relevant. The music itself comes first. Enjoy it for what it is.

Good post and exactly as it should be.
M is not the person now that he was back then and hasn’t been for YEARS .
Once he’d dumped DS and the baggage that came with it , sorted out his personal life ( very happily ), got a set of musicians who are good people, professional, not politicking and proud to play his music, and most of all had avoided the pitfalls of fame and celebrity and recovered from that terrible accident, he was set to go and go he did, down to “Tights Are Us”, an exclusive shop on the Kings Rd that stocks his exact size.